Trump's Russian Collusion

[Peter Brown]

Many Trumpists CELEBRATE the fact that he has "infected our entire body politic"...yes, they see that as a real plus. I'm not an establishment guy either...on that we can agree. Biden is more of an establishment guy...and Tulsi worked for the DNC, right? Although there seems to have been a bit of a falling out. I will admit to being pretty ignorant of her as a politician...am i right that she is now the consummate "outsider", or wishes us to believe she is that? MAybe there's a place for her in the upcoming Warren administration...

Wondering where you get YOUR news, PB. It is indeed the Age of Fake News and some seem to employ the tactic like a bludgeon.

What, exactly was it that causes such rage from you about Dick Cheney? or Shrub? Compare what THEY did, how they approached the presidency, to the current occupant.

Before your plane takes off, please...

..

I am off in a few...this will need to be my last post, likely here forever! LOL...I hate politics.

Cheney to me is the ultimate bad character...a war-mongering, insider-trading, massively arrogant arse who truly had no compassion for any human being. I despised him the day I set eyes on him.

W is the dumbest POTUS we have ever had and ever will have, and the direct beneficiary of his Dad's name and others who bailed him out of bad business deals. Just his amazing idiocy and his inability to do anything meaningful with the office, ugh....I could go on for hours about how much I dislike both.

Tulsi is certainly not establishment. She has courage; she is a veteran still actively on service. She speaks well. She seems like she has a heart of gold. And she surfs. Call me smitten in every regard. Not sure I'd agree with every position she holds, but I know she would be a good leader.

[Peter Brown]

Using a term like "Democrat Party" is a stone tell.

Can you see how some of us would be confused??

..

This is the last post. Isn't it the Democrat Party? You want "Democratic"? Edit my post for all I care. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to the points being made and not refer to astrology charts deciphering intent.

[RedFromMI]

NYT says the WB is a CIA officer who was once detailed to the WH:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/nyt- ... hite-house

They have three sources who know who s/he is...WB has returned to the CIA.

[RedFromMI]

Using a term like "Democrat Party" is a stone tell.

Can you see how some of us would be confused??

..

This is the last post. Isn't it the Democrat Party? You want "Democratic"? Edit my post for all I care. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to the points being made and not refer to astrology charts deciphering intent.

Democrat party is the preferred usage of Fox News/Republicans (trolling the left...). The actual name is the Democratic Party.

[seacoaster]

"Call me smitten in every regard."

BUTTA BING, BUTTA BANG, BUTTAFUCO.

[seacoaster]

many of you out here are going to impeach yourself for another 4 years of what you hate right now - the hysteria is overboard and so is the hatred - yeah Hunter got that oil and gas company contract because he was a great business man in that industry - alrighty

The only thing if he lasts long enough is that the Hillary email saga gets a final look as that is a bad look and that Clinton Foundation accounting is reviewed as I am sure that was all above aboard.

I do not like the guy but I am glad he is punching people in the face - about time the protected class step down a notch and play fair. Doubtful it will happen but it would be nice.

I don't understand why folks seem to trot out the word "hysteria" for this subject matter. The issues raised by the President's behavior are serious, and no one on this board or elsewhere made them up. A member of the IC raised the issues apparently as a matter of conscience him/herself. It's not hysterical to raise the question of whether the President's interaction with this national leader was proper, or a proper use of the power -- the legal and practical authority -- of the Presidency. I'm not "hysterical;" I'm worried that the country has lost its moral way and compass, and that my President operates like a mob boss across borders.

I don't understand you last paragraph. Do you really think the issues raised here are about punching the "protected class" -- whatever that is -- in the face? What are the consequences of the President getting a pass on this sort of dialogue, for this sort of purpose and gain?

I'll ask it again: is it OK for the President to use the power of the office to which we elected him for the purpose of getting politically-useful dirt on a rival past (Mrs. Clinton) or present and maybe future? Yes or no.

[a fan]

many of you out here are going to impeach yourself for another 4 years of what you hate right now - the hysteria is overboard and so is the hatred - yeah Hunter got that oil and gas company contract because he was a great business man in that industry - alrighty

The only thing if he lasts long enough is that the Hillary email saga gets a final look as that is a bad look and that Clinton Foundation accounting is reviewed as I am sure that was all above aboard.

Nopity- nope-nope!

Sorry, my man. You told us in no uncertain terms that you are 100% ok with conflicts of interest. You don't get to complain about Hunter or Hillary. Sorry. Either you're ok with these conflicts, or you're not. You said you were cool with them, what's the big deal?

Remember? "That's not illegal, so what's the problem?" regarding Prestwick?

I do not like the guy but I am glad he is punching people in the face - about time the protected class step down a notch and play fair.

Trump had Hillary at his freaking wedding, YOU think that he's not part of the protected class?

You're LITERALLY telling us you don't care what Trump does----protecting him from any consequences of his behavior.

You're better than this. I can tell from your other postings.

[dislaxxic]

THE INTELLIGENCE ISSUES THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE LARGELY IGNORED

"First is the allegation that Trump moved the summary of this call to the covert communications system to hide the improper nature of the call. The whistleblower complaint said that this is not the first time the White House has done so. This is a clear abuse of the legal status of covert operations dictated by the National Security Act, something for which Maguire has direct responsibility. Covert operations must be communicated, by law, to at least the Gang of Eight in Congress. That Trump has politicized and misused this system discredits a core means of accountability for the White House, on Maguire’s job directly oversees. And yet he wasn’t asked how Trump’s actions undermine the legally mandated system of covert communications.

Then there’s the fact that Trump is premising policy decisions not on the best intelligence, but instead on how he can derive personal benefit from them. His doing so is a core abuse of presidential power. But — as I noted this morning — it also robs American citizens of the benefits the entire intelligence system is supposed to ensure. Maguire admittedly cannot force the President to make the right decisions. But the repercussions of premising policy decisions on personal gain for the national security of the US should be a concern of Maguire’s. That wasn’t mentioned either.

Finally, there’s the allegation that someone without clearance and entirely outside of the intelligence community was being asked to share and act on classified information derived from the intelligence community. Maguire at one point claimed that Trump can do whatever he wants with his personal lawyer and that such discussions would be privileged (after, at another point, dodging a question because he’s not a lawyer). That’s the height of absurdity. Rudy’s pursuit of policy actions has nothing to do with his role as Trump’s personal lawyer. And as the DOJ IG complaint against Jim Comey makes clear that sharing even retroactively confidential information with your personal lawyers — as Comey was scolded for doing — is not permissible. Yes, it’s true that as President Trump can declassify anything he wants (though Comey was original classification authority for the information he shared with his own lawyers), but others in the IC cannot share information with an uncleared person without formal declassification, or they risk their own legal troubles."

..

[RedFromMI]

Support for impeachment grows by 7 percent according to a Politico/Morning Consult poll on the subject.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... mp-1515012

Equal amounts at 43% say start/don't start impeachment proceedings, with 13% don't know. Data collection began Tuesday night and ended this morning. Previous poll was Friday through Sunday.

Breakdowns (current poll/last poll):

Dems (79/66 start proceedings)
Reps (10/5 start proceedings
Inds (39 and article does not have last poll result)

Clear partisan divide.

[youthathletics]

Do you make cash on clicks to emptywheel?

[youthathletics]

Support for impeachment grows by 7 percent according to a Politico/Morning Consult poll on the subject.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... mp-1515012

Equal amounts at 43% say start/don't start impeachment proceedings, with 13% don't know. Data collection began Tuesday night and ended this morning. Previous poll was Friday through Sunday.

Breakdowns (current poll/last poll):

Dems (79/66 start proceedings)
Reps (10/5 start proceedings
Inds (39 and article does not have last poll result)

Clear partisan divide.

[old salt]

THE INTELLIGENCE ISSUES THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE LARGELY IGNORED

"First is the allegation that Trump moved the summary of this call to the covert communications system to hide the improper nature of the call. The whistleblower complaint said that this is not the first time the White House has done so. This is a clear abuse of the legal status of covert operations dictated by the National Security Act, something for which Maguire has direct responsibility. Covert operations must be communicated, by law, to at least the Gang of Eight in Congress. That Trump has politicized and misused this system discredits a core means of accountability for the White House, on Maguire’s job directly oversees. And yet he wasn’t asked how Trump’s actions undermine the legally mandated system of covert communications.

Then there’s the fact that Trump is premising policy decisions not on the best intelligence, but instead on how he can derive personal benefit from them. His doing so is a core abuse of presidential power. But — as I noted this morning — it also robs American citizens of the benefits the entire intelligence system is supposed to ensure. Maguire admittedly cannot force the President to make the right decisions. But the repercussions of premising policy decisions on personal gain for the national security of the US should be a concern of Maguire’s. That wasn’t mentioned either.

Finally, there’s the allegation that someone without clearance and entirely outside of the intelligence community was being asked to share and act on classified information derived from the intelligence community. Maguire at one point claimed that Trump can do whatever he wants with his personal lawyer and that such discussions would be privileged (after, at another point, dodging a question because he’s not a lawyer). That’s the height of absurdity. Rudy’s pursuit of policy actions has nothing to do with his role as Trump’s personal lawyer. And as the DOJ IG complaint against Jim Comey makes clear that sharing even retroactively confidential information with your personal lawyers — as Comey was scolded for doing — is not permissible. Yes, it’s true that as President Trump can declassify anything he wants (though Comey was original classification authority for the information he shared with his own lawyers), but others in the IC cannot share information with an uncleared person without formal declassification, or they risk their own legal troubles."

.. ...PMM neglects to mention that POTUS is the ultimate classification authority & can limit the distribution of his communications as he desires.

It's obvious that the WH decision was made to store any leak-worthy transcripts on the "secret" server because several phcons were leaked early in Trump's term.

The WB (& his admitted up to 6 cohorts) chose the WB route this time because, the distribution circle for this transcript had narrowed to the point that it was no longer safe to use their ususal leak channel. Look how much of his complaint had already been reported, based on unnamed sources. They needed to get the transcript declassified & published.

[seacoaster]

“It's obvious that the WH decision was made to store any leak-worthy transcripts on the "secret" server because several phcons were leaked early in Trump's term.”

Sure. You should work in WH Communications; they really need you. Why was it “leakworthy”?

[youthathletics]

I am no federal Law scholar, but it is my understanding that Article II covers him on this...especially since there was no 'contingency' in the propped up over use of the wrong term quip pro quo.

[cradleandshoot]

If the moderators here had a lick of sense they would lock this thread... drag it out behind the barn and shoot it in the head. I can see where all of this sheepdip is heading for the next year or so. This is one thread I am done with. Too many FLP weeds ( as drill Sgt Browning would have said) destroys any sense at a rational conversation.. exceptions to a Fan and MD lax. My last comments on this thread will be to MD. We have butted heads on so many things. I have to poke fun at you one last time... only on this idiotic thread... for a lifelong republican i can hardly ever recall you saying one good word ever about any republican ever. i guess you had to like Mittens cause he is such a kind and decent man. Did it bother you at all, as a lifelong republican how the democrats turned him into a hate mongering, racist, antiwomen, misogynist who abused animals and women. If you want to reply MD... send me a PM... I will never after today read this thread again. This is a thread that needs to be put down. Who the hell wants to read this stupid back and forth for the next year and a half. For all you FLP folks, I hope you get your wish. maybe trump will get the Joan of Arc treatment and you all will finally find some closure from the hate that resides within all of you .

[old salt]

“It's obvious that the WH decision was made to store any leak-worthy transcripts on the "secret" server because several phcons were leaked early in Trump's term.”

Sure. You should work in WH Communications; they really need you. Why was it “leakworthy”?

Because it could be spun to damage Trump, as is being done.

...thus violating the confidentiality of the foreign leader on the other end of the line.

[jhu72]

The regrettable conclusion (to square Tulsi, for example) is the Dem Party is now the party of Permanent War, a rueful post formerly occupied by the Cheney wing of the Republican Party. I can not accept for the life of me how this Party's voice has evolved.

Look, I'm no massive Trump fan, but at least he's stayed out of new wars (do you think for a second Hillary wouldn't be bombing the living hole out of Iran by now??!!) and as importantly he's done something regarding the American prison-industrial complex, as shameful a stain on American society as even slavery. Meanwhile, Dems now idolize prosecutors of dime-bags of weed such as Kamala Harris. It's astounding to a guy like me what has become of the Dem Party platform.

I don't see Tulsi winning, but her voice is a voice of sanity in a party which has gone off the rails...and I lay a ton of the nuttiness at Twitter, which I don't use, but certainly hear a ton of. The constancy of labeling every Republican one way or the other is insanity. I don't think Dems are the same as the Party, nor do I feel the same as Republicans to their Party. But the Dem Party voice imo is more stridently attacking.

I share your cognitive dissonance. I still can't believe I'm seeing the (D)'s pushing us toward military conflict with Russia & insisting we provide even more lethal military aid to Ukraine.

I appreciate your lonely voice on this topic. Democrats today talk of Russia as if we are at a nuclear precipice over Cuban interference; I mean, What the heck is with this Russia-phobia?

The constancy of the Russia-phobia disturbs me to no end. Russia is an economically impoverished country for the most part; if Putin tasks come pimply internet cafe kids to come up with media stories about any American politician truly has zero impact on any one person's vote in this country. If you say it does, that says more about your opinion of your fellow countrymen than anything. MSNBC pumps up Russia-phobia every second they can, giving full cover to war-mad Americans who used to be Cheney Republicans. Look at guys like Tom Nichols, Rick Wilson, John Weaver, and Mike Murphy...the only channel they are invited to speak on is MSNBC. Awful people.

This and you are total bull! I do not know a single democrat or liberal who is concerned about Russia and their nuclear capability. Nor is there any sense of Russian-phobia. It's all about Trump. Russia is the co-conspirator - nothing more, nothing less sparky.

[jhu72]

THE INTELLIGENCE ISSUES THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE LARGELY IGNORED

"First is the allegation that Trump moved the summary of this call to the covert communications system to hide the improper nature of the call. The whistleblower complaint said that this is not the first time the White House has done so. This is a clear abuse of the legal status of covert operations dictated by the National Security Act, something for which Maguire has direct responsibility. Covert operations must be communicated, by law, to at least the Gang of Eight in Congress. That Trump has politicized and misused this system discredits a core means of accountability for the White House, on Maguire’s job directly oversees. And yet he wasn’t asked how Trump’s actions undermine the legally mandated system of covert communications.

Then there’s the fact that Trump is premising policy decisions not on the best intelligence, but instead on how he can derive personal benefit from them. His doing so is a core abuse of presidential power. But — as I noted this morning — it also robs American citizens of the benefits the entire intelligence system is supposed to ensure. Maguire admittedly cannot force the President to make the right decisions. But the repercussions of premising policy decisions on personal gain for the national security of the US should be a concern of Maguire’s. That wasn’t mentioned either.

Finally, there’s the allegation that someone without clearance and entirely outside of the intelligence community was being asked to share and act on classified information derived from the intelligence community. Maguire at one point claimed that Trump can do whatever he wants with his personal lawyer and that such discussions would be privileged (after, at another point, dodging a question because he’s not a lawyer). That’s the height of absurdity. Rudy’s pursuit of policy actions has nothing to do with his role as Trump’s personal lawyer. And as the DOJ IG complaint against Jim Comey makes clear that sharing even retroactively confidential information with your personal lawyers — as Comey was scolded for doing — is not permissible. Yes, it’s true that as President Trump can declassify anything he wants (though Comey was original classification authority for the information he shared with his own lawyers), but others in the IC cannot share information with an uncleared person without formal declassification, or they risk their own legal troubles."

.. ...PMM neglects to mention that POTUS is the ultimate classification authority & can limit the distribution of his communications as he desires.

It's obvious that the WH decision was made to store any leak-worthy transcripts on the "secret" server because several phcons were leaked early in Trump's term.

The WB (& his admitted up to 6 cohorts) chose the WB route this time because, the distribution circle for this transcript had narrowed to the point that it was no longer safe to use their ususal leak channel. Look how much of his complaint had already been reported, based on unnamed sources. They needed to get the transcript declassified & published.

The wheels on the bus go round and round …

[foreverlax]

I am no federal Law scholar, but it is my understanding that Article II covers him on this...especially since there was no 'contingency' in the propped up over use of the wrong term quip pro quo.

Contingency, like a smoking gun in your face this for that. I would call that "high crimes"

The issue at hand, imo, is a "misdemeanor"

[foreverlax]

The regrettable conclusion (to square Tulsi, for example) is the Dem Party is now the party of Permanent War, a rueful post formerly occupied by the Cheney wing of the Republican Party. I can not accept for the life of me how this Party's voice has evolved.

Look, I'm no massive Trump fan, but at least he's stayed out of new wars (do you think for a second Hillary wouldn't be bombing the living hole out of Iran by now??!!) and as importantly he's done something regarding the American prison-industrial complex, as shameful a stain on American society as even slavery. Meanwhile, Dems now idolize prosecutors of dime-bags of weed such as Kamala Harris. It's astounding to a guy like me what has become of the Dem Party platform.

I don't see Tulsi winning, but her voice is a voice of sanity in a party which has gone off the rails...and I lay a ton of the nuttiness at Twitter, which I don't use, but certainly hear a ton of. The constancy of labeling every Republican one way or the other is insanity. I don't think Dems are the same as the Party, nor do I feel the same as Republicans to their Party. But the Dem Party voice imo is more stridently attacking.

I share your cognitive dissonance. I still can't believe I'm seeing the (D)'s pushing us toward military conflict with Russia & insisting we provide even more lethal military aid to Ukraine.

I appreciate your lonely voice on this topic. Democrats today talk of Russia as if we are at a nuclear precipice over Cuban interference; I mean, What the heck is with this Russia-phobia?

The constancy of the Russia-phobia disturbs me to no end. Russia is an economically impoverished country for the most part; if Putin tasks come pimply internet cafe kids to come up with media stories about any American politician truly has zero impact on any one person's vote in this country. If you say it does, that says more about your opinion of your fellow countrymen than anything. MSNBC pumps up Russia-phobia every second they can, giving full cover to war-mad Americans who used to be Cheney Republicans. Look at guys like Tom Nichols, Rick Wilson, John Weaver, and Mike Murphy...the only channel they are invited to speak on is MSNBC. Awful people.

This and you are total bull! I do not know a single democrat or liberal who is concerned about Russia and their nuclear capability. Nor is there any sense of Russian-phobia. It's all about Trump. Russia is the co-conspirator - nothing more, nothing less sparky.

Careful with the "sparky"...