Trump's Russian Collusion

[Peter Brown]

So go vote in November 2020. If you're not secure enough in what you just wrote, you will push the impeachment insanity, while helping absolutely not one citizen of this country. It's a fairly obvious choice.

Talk sense, man...what the fork are you trying to say?? You like to couch your words in the veneer of "moderation" but you are fooling no one around here. Your words are those of a partisan rightwingnut incredulously out to justify (at best) or excuse (at worse) the CLEARLY improper behavior of our DOPUS.

An ADNI appointed by Trump gave a WB complaint to a TRUMP APPOINTED Inspector General and it was deemed, BY THE IG, as an "Urgent Concern".

What is so hard for you to understand about this??

..

This 'rightwingnut' contributed $1,000 to Tulsi Gabbard.

BTW, 'improper' behavior would cause every POTUS in our nation's history to be disqualified. Donate, rally, go vote and stop whining like a toddler.

[Peter Brown]

That’s about the only way this happens....R’s turn on him.

If the left only had a viable candidate, this would be a non issue. The left is pulling out all the stop in hopes the senate will follow in their lock step.

The Dems actually have a whole slew of "viable" candidates who can beat Trump, it's just that you and I aren't happy with the leading choices most likely to get the nod.

Unfortunately, we may need to suck it up for awhile and hope we can rebound to some sort of more centrist balance.

Dems have a number who can beat Trump. May not be your cup of tea, but in every way they are a massive improvement on Trump. They actually care about something besides themselves. They will bring back the rule of law, normal order.

As I've previously written, despite having never before, over 4 decades, voted for a Dem for President, I'll vote for the proverbial 'piece of wood' over Trump. Indeed over Pence too as he's up to his neck in it, total toady and he's got some views I can't countenance to boot.

Kasich, Romney...

I am the opposite of that. I have never voted Republican, but if our nominee is not Gabbard or Biden (assuming they have reasonable running mates, no small leap of faith given how the party is headed), I will vote this time and I will vote for Trump. The economy is great. I will look hard at that, as always.

[DMac]

Whatever the outcome, it was nice to see a man who exudes honesty and integrity and who believes the words of the oath he took and lives by them, unlike the piece of trash we have for a Prez. I would love to see the Prez sit in the seat Maguire sat in today, he would completely crumble and fall apart. Maguire did nothing wrong, he did what he interpreted as the right thing to do and thought he was following the letter of the law. A very impressive individual to say the least.

Agree. 100%

The right wing media today, and Trumpties the world over, are just tying themselves into knots over this. The VRWC, the right-wing media machine is throttling up into full outrage mode, something they are supremely good at.

It may well not help them one wit. Don't see how in the world this whole sordid affair could possibly expand the Trump Base even a tiny bit.

Enough is enough. This numbnut has to be put in his place. The country obviously was conned and lied into making a MAJOR mistake in the 2016 election.

..

So go vote in November 2020. If you're not secure enough in what you just wrote, you will push the impeachment insanity, while helping absolutely not one citizen of this country. It's a fairly obvious choice.

Speak for yourself. It would help this one person in restoring his faith in honor and integrity being something more than just words. Even many of this Prez's supporters say he's unfit for office, that being the case he shouldn't be in office.
Was there ever a question from the day he went into the Oval Office that he would find his a*s*s in hot water because of who and what he is? Never was in mine.

[Peter Brown]

Whatever the outcome, it was nice to see a man who exudes honesty and integrity and who believes the words of the oath he took and lives by them, unlike the piece of trash we have for a Prez. I would love to see the Prez sit in the seat Maguire sat in today, he would completely crumble and fall apart. Maguire did nothing wrong, he did what he interpreted as the right thing to do and thought he was following the letter of the law. A very impressive individual to say the least.

Agree. 100%

The right wing media today, and Trumpties the world over, are just tying themselves into knots over this. The VRWC, the right-wing media machine is throttling up into full outrage mode, something they are supremely good at.

It may well not help them one wit. Don't see how in the world this whole sordid affair could possibly expand the Trump Base even a tiny bit.

Enough is enough. This numbnut has to be put in his place. The country obviously was conned and lied into making a MAJOR mistake in the 2016 election.

..

So go vote in November 2020. If you're not secure enough in what you just wrote, you will push the impeachment insanity, while helping absolutely not one citizen of this country. It's a fairly obvious choice.

Speak for yourself. It would help this one person in restoring his faith in honor and integrity being something more than just words. Even many of this Prez's supporters say he's unfit for office, that being the case he shouldn't be in office.
Was there ever a question from the day he went into the Oval Office that he would find his a*s*s in hot water because of who and what he is? Never was in mine.

There will be a choice between two people next Fall. It sounds like you will vote 'for a piece of wood' over Trump. That is fine. That is the choice we have.

Impeachment however is a dangerous step unless there is overwhelming evidence of a crime. That is not the case here. Cheering on the divisions of a country via impeachment are further decimations of integrity and honor to a system which imo is the best system in the history of the universe. Trump is Trump. I get it. But because you dislike a guy is not sufficient reason to impeach him, and nor is fake news. Adam Schiff just today spoke from the lectern as if he was reciting Trump's words verbatim...not letting anyone know he was reading a fantasy version of the words. I mean, this is the stuff that ruins countries. I guarantee 99% of the Dems on this Board believed Schiff as he spoke, and even after the news broke that it was all an act, will still believe him, even though it was fake (much like people still think something happend at UVA and Duke).

https://www.newsweek.com/adam-schiff-pa ... ll-1461579

[MDlaxfan76]

But the Dem Party voice imo is more stridently attacking.

Uhhhh----they're the minority party. Maybe head on over to Ann Arundel Community College and take a class on American Civics, they'll explain why the party that isn't in power seems to be "stridently attacking".

I don't mind any opposition; opposition keeps you fit and strong. But this constant insanity with fake stories and impeachment is nauseating.
This is a president for whom much of what he says is fake, and not much of his opposition fits that bill. What Trump says should be what is nauseating to you.

I know a fake story when I see it, like this newest Ukraine nonsense. You'll see in time the 'whistleblower' is a partisan Democrat living in DC, he never heard anything firsthand (it was all secondhand info), his lawyers are partisan Dems, and the story is disjointed as all second hand or third hand stories are, yet we are already into impeachment!
The most damning information is actually in the redacted and shortened summary of the 30 minute phone call between Trump and Zelensky. This was actually put out by the administration. For anyone who has seen a mob movie, the phone call was a classic pressurized ask.How is that fake? What the WB is adding is further context and information about the breadth of the corruption, including what looks like a coverup as well. Much of the information about Giuliani's involvement has been partially known as it was happening (in fact one of his trips to meet with Zelensky was canceled due to the press sunshine on his activities).

Now as to the identity of the WB? Does not matter. But you give away the store here - "partisan Democrat." Bias much?

I never believed the UVA story. Nor would anyone who had a remote clue who Jackie Coakley and Sabrina Erdeley are. And I don't believe Christine Blasey Ford. Nor does anyone who has even a remote clue as to who she is. And I don't believe this story either. You would too if you could be objective.
Not really material to this issue.

We should win with ideas, not constant false stories. The reason people don't believe our national media much is, how many stories are walked back every week, all of which attack the President? Just this week, the NYT had to in essence walk back the entire new Kavanaugh nonsense. It may seem like a small story to you, but the guy has two young daughters.
Actually they did not walk back the entire story, but certainly misrepresented what they actually had. The fact that the NYT corrected anything is exactly what we should expect from our press. You never see Trump correcting any of his stories...

And in case you attack me as partisan, trust me, I'm the furthest from that in the universe. Formerly, I jumped down the throat of friends of mine who used to go after Chelsea Clinton.

The evidence from your actual statements is that you effectively are a partisan. Not much difference than a racist saying "I am not a racist."

Really? So Tulsi Gabbard is my preferred candidate. But I'm 'partisan'?

Perhaps Trump has clouded your mind as he has done to many other Democrats, where it is near impossible for you to have anything less than a mini-hysterical accusatory convo any longer. I didn't even vote in 2016...could not have cared less who won and still don't. Do you think perhaps it is you who is partisan, and can no longer evidence nuance and reflective thinking?

PB, we don't know you from Adam (other than your trolling of the Hop folks as a Loyola-ist ), so please understand that if you repeat right-wing talking points as if gospel, we can make no other assumptions other than you are a 'partisan' or maybe delusional.

We have only your posts on which to judge.

Now, if you choose to think this all nonsense, despite the admonitions of multiple GOP Senators, despite the Trump-appointed IG, despite the statements by the DNI today under oath...well, what else can we think?

We have no idea who you voted for in 2016 (or didn't bother to vote), how you would vote in 2020. We just have your posts above.

I'd vote for a piece of wood over Trump and I've never voted Dem before over 4 decades of always showing up, midterms as well...lifelong R.

[Peter Brown]

I don't know you either.

How is asking for fact-based judgments and not rushing headfirst into an impeachment "Republican talking points''? Waiting for real facts, being cynical about media reports written by highly partisan human beings, not wanting to see the country torn apart any further: that's now a right-wing talking point.

If you ask me how Trump has truly hurt America, I'd say he has caused otherwise sane and intelligent human beings to suspend rational thinking and simply tilt at the prevailing windmill. The mob is our new leader. I am afraid to say I have never been a fan of mob thought.

So, you want to know my politics? Perhaps an admission or three will help: the two worst politicians in the last half century have been Dick Cheney and George W Bush. Two of the best were Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama. And I am a massive fan of Tulsi Gabbard. Does that help you at all? Or are we still stuck on confirmation bias?

[dislaxxic]

Not whining at all. Calling a numbnut a numbnut, a liar a liar. You can't possible attribute the status of the economy to Trump. If so, you are hereby disqualified from credible discourse. You say you've been "lurking" on the politics boards for some time, so you evidently "know" each of us and our positions. as MD points out, you're words belie your self-proclaimed "moderate, reasoned" outlook. That's OK, we have many here that couch their comments in the words you also choose.

All that aside, welcome to the fray.

..

[Peter Brown]

Not whining at all. Calling a numbnut a numbnut, a liar a liar. You can't possible attribute the status of the economy to Trump. If so, you are hereby disqualified from credible discourse. You say you've been "lurking" on the politics boards for some time, so you evidently "know" each of us and our positions. as MD points out, you're words belie your self-proclaimed "moderate, reasoned" outlook. That's OK, we have many here that couch their comments in the words you also choose.

All that aside, welcome to the fray.

..

I really don't intend to post much more than today in this thread....I happen to be traveling with time to kill in airports. Like I said, I am way more agnostic than you probably want to believe.

However, your post above is why I don't consider myself a true Dem anymore. The lack of logic and reasonable discourse, with the Russiagate nonsense and war-whooping, makes me wonder which if any party I belong to.

[foreverlax]

Whatever the outcome, it was nice to see a man who exudes honesty and integrity and who believes the words of the oath he took and lives by them, unlike the piece of trash we have for a Prez. I would love to see the Prez sit in the seat Maguire sat in today, he would completely crumble and fall apart. Maguire did nothing wrong, he did what he interpreted as the right thing to do and thought he was following the letter of the law. A very impressive individual to say the least.

Agree. 100%

The right wing media today, and Trumpties the world over, are just tying themselves into knots over this. The VRWC, the right-wing media machine is throttling up into full outrage mode, something they are supremely good at.

It may well not help them one wit. Don't see how in the world this whole sordid affair could possibly expand the Trump Base even a tiny bit.

Enough is enough. This numbnut has to be put in his place. The country obviously was conned and lied into making a MAJOR mistake in the 2016 election.

..

So go vote in November 2020. If you're not secure enough in what you just wrote, you will push the impeachment insanity, while helping absolutely not one citizen of this country. It's a fairly obvious choice.

Speak for yourself. It would help this one person in restoring his faith in honor and integrity being something more than just words. Even many of this Prez's supporters say he's unfit for office, that being the case he shouldn't be in office.
Was there ever a question from the day he went into the Oval Office that he would find his a*s*s in hot water because of who and what he is? Never was in mine.

There will be a choice between two people next Fall. It sounds like you will vote 'for a piece of wood' over Trump. That is fine. That is the choice we have.

Impeachment however is a dangerous step unless there is overwhelming evidence of a crime. That is not the case here. Cheering on the divisions of a country via impeachment are further decimations of integrity and honor to a system which imo is the best system in the history of the universe. Trump is Trump. I get it. But because you dislike a guy is not sufficient reason to impeach him, and nor is fake news. Adam Schiff just today spoke from the lectern as if he was reciting Trump's words verbatim...not letting anyone know he was reading a fantasy version of the words. I mean, this is the stuff that ruins countries. I guarantee 99% of the Dems on this Board believed Schiff as he spoke, and even after the news broke that it was all an act, will still believe him, even though it was fake (much like people still think something happend at UVA and Duke).

https://www.newsweek.com/adam-schiff-pa ... ll-1461579

The Parody was not good form...nothing funny about this.

And yet, many of Trumps supporters continue to believe Trump, even though his facts are alternative.

The PMI manufacturers’ index has gone substantially up, which was an incredible — Larry Kudlow, wherever you may be — Larry, please stand up. He just gave me these numbers.....DJT at press conference yesterday

PMI - purchasing managers index is what he is referencing. PMI has not gone up substantially. It's lower then when Trump took office...actually the trend has been nothing but down since the start of last year.

[old salt]

Nice work diss -- I wonder if you introduced PB to Glenn Greenwald too ? ..

[foreverlax]

Not whining at all. Calling a numbnut a numbnut, a liar a liar. You can't possible attribute the status of the economy to Trump. If so, you are hereby disqualified from credible discourse. You say you've been "lurking" on the politics boards for some time, so you evidently "know" each of us and our positions. as MD points out, you're words belie your self-proclaimed "moderate, reasoned" outlook. That's OK, we have many here that couch their comments in the words you also choose.

All that aside, welcome to the fray.

..

makes me wonder which if any party I belong to.

I made that same determination back in '16.

[Bandito]

But the Dem Party voice imo is more stridently attacking.

Uhhhh----they're the minority party. Maybe head on over to Ann Arundel Community College and take a class on American Civics, they'll explain why the party that isn't in power seems to be "stridently attacking".

I don't mind any opposition; opposition keeps you fit and strong. But this constant insanity with fake stories and impeachment is nauseating.
This is a president for whom much of what he says is fake, and not much of his opposition fits that bill. What Trump says should be what is nauseating to you.

I know a fake story when I see it, like this newest Ukraine nonsense. You'll see in time the 'whistleblower' is a partisan Democrat living in DC, he never heard anything firsthand (it was all secondhand info), his lawyers are partisan Dems, and the story is disjointed as all second hand or third hand stories are, yet we are already into impeachment!
The most damning information is actually in the redacted and shortened summary of the 30 minute phone call between Trump and Zelensky. This was actually put out by the administration. For anyone who has seen a mob movie, the phone call was a classic pressurized ask.How is that fake? What the WB is adding is further context and information about the breadth of the corruption, including what looks like a coverup as well. Much of the information about Giuliani's involvement has been partially known as it was happening (in fact one of his trips to meet with Zelensky was canceled due to the press sunshine on his activities).

Now as to the identity of the WB? Does not matter. But you give away the store here - "partisan Democrat." Bias much?

I never believed the UVA story. Nor would anyone who had a remote clue who Jackie Coakley and Sabrina Erdeley are. And I don't believe Christine Blasey Ford. Nor does anyone who has even a remote clue as to who she is. And I don't believe this story either. You would too if you could be objective.
Not really material to this issue.

We should win with ideas, not constant false stories. The reason people don't believe our national media much is, how many stories are walked back every week, all of which attack the President? Just this week, the NYT had to in essence walk back the entire new Kavanaugh nonsense. It may seem like a small story to you, but the guy has two young daughters.
Actually they did not walk back the entire story, but certainly misrepresented what they actually had. The fact that the NYT corrected anything is exactly what we should expect from our press. You never see Trump correcting any of his stories...

And in case you attack me as partisan, trust me, I'm the furthest from that in the universe. Formerly, I jumped down the throat of friends of mine who used to go after Chelsea Clinton.

The evidence from your actual statements is that you effectively are a partisan. Not much difference than a racist saying "I am not a racist."

You’re obsessed with racism. It’s pathetic and tired. Your lover boy Obama and the Democrats have set race relations back 75 years due to the lefts dangerous rhetoric. Trump didn’t cause this division, he revealed it and the left has shown the world what true hateful bigots and racists they are. The left has used this tactic for years to no avail. When they don’t have a message they attack a duly elected president and his supporters as racists. Racists often promote their racism. They don’t hide it. They proudly show it. This isn’t Trump or any of his supporters. I told a great story over the summer how my Lyft Driver, a legal immigrant from Kenya loves Trump and my MAGA hat. He is thankful for the president of exposing the true racists: those on the left. You need to brush up on the history of the Republican Party and why it was started. Don’t give me the BS that the parties switched. That’s a proven lie, one that no one with any type of quality education believes. Try winning an election for once. Come up with a plan and beat Trump fair and square. The Democrats won’t because they are so deranged all they do is attack, attack, attack. That didn’t work in 2016 and it won’t work in 2020.

[Peter Brown]

Actually they did not walk back the entire story, but certainly misrepresented what they actually had. The fact that the NYT corrected anything is exactly what we should expect from our press. You never see Trump correcting any of his stories...

Have you ever wondered, RedFromMI, why these corrections are always on stories that target Trump? I am constantly amazed that very few on the left even question news stories anymore, even after significant walkbacks over the past 2.5 years. Funny enough, I never have trusted news...I worked on a school paper and the staff was biased like one could not believe and did not hide it...guess what industry they got hired in? Journalism. I treat the news as a skeptic first, and I only believe when I have heard enough sides to make a judgment. Now I suspect that folks here will say yet again, this must make me a closet conservative, which I find hilarious...if one wants facts, and waits for them, that is now the smoking gun of being a conservative!

Trump has infected our entire body politic...very few anymore even pretend to want facts.

[MDlaxfan76]

Whatever the outcome, it was nice to see a man who exudes honesty and integrity and who believes the words of the oath he took and lives by them, unlike the piece of trash we have for a Prez. I would love to see the Prez sit in the seat Maguire sat in today, he would completely crumble and fall apart. Maguire did nothing wrong, he did what he interpreted as the right thing to do and thought he was following the letter of the law. A very impressive individual to say the least.

Agree. 100%

The right wing media today, and Trumpties the world over, are just tying themselves into knots over this. The VRWC, the right-wing media machine is throttling up into full outrage mode, something they are supremely good at.

It may well not help them one wit. Don't see how in the world this whole sordid affair could possibly expand the Trump Base even a tiny bit.

Enough is enough. This numbnut has to be put in his place. The country obviously was conned and lied into making a MAJOR mistake in the 2016 election.

..

So go vote in November 2020. If you're not secure enough in what you just wrote, you will push the impeachment insanity, while helping absolutely not one citizen of this country. It's a fairly obvious choice.

Speak for yourself. It would help this one person in restoring his faith in honor and integrity being something more than just words. Even many of this Prez's supporters say he's unfit for office, that being the case he shouldn't be in office.
Was there ever a question from the day he went into the Oval Office that he would find his a*s*s in hot water because of who and what he is? Never was in mine.

There will be a choice between two people next Fall. It sounds like you will vote 'for a piece of wood' over Trump. That is fine. That is the choice we have.

Impeachment however is a dangerous step unless there is overwhelming evidence of a crime. That is not the case here. Cheering on the divisions of a country via impeachment are further decimations of integrity and honor to a system which imo is the best system in the history of the universe. Trump is Trump. I get it. But because you dislike a guy is not sufficient reason to impeach him, and nor is fake news. Adam Schiff just today spoke from the lectern as if he was reciting Trump's words verbatim...not letting anyone know he was reading a fantasy version of the words. I mean, this is the stuff that ruins countries. I guarantee 99% of the Dems on this Board believed Schiff as he spoke, and even after the news broke that it was all an act, will still believe him, even though it was fake (much like people still think something happend at UVA and Duke).

https://www.newsweek.com/adam-schiff-pa ... ll-1461579

Again, PB, it's as if you are reading from Devin Nunes' tweets and talking points on Fox News.

I listened to the entire hearing, having read the release yesterday fully, but not yet having read the WB complaint. In no way at all was it confusing about whether Schiff was 'reading' Trump's words, indeed he made very clear from the outset of his recitation that he was summarizing the gist, the message, contained in the call so that we could all decipher the logic flow...which he indeed captured pretty darn accurately, though with a flourish here or there for emphasis. He later made clear that he was parodying Trump's words for effect. Maybe you missed all that and just listened to Fox or Nunes, but no one actually listening live, with half a brain, should have actually been confused.

I quite disagree re 'crime'. Nope, an "abuse of power", especially as egregious as this one is 100% on point for impeachment. Getting a BJ in the WH and then lying about it might not be, but this is an actual abuse of Presidential powers, with significant national security implications.

There's no need to prove a statute was broken if the oath of office is broken.

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't know you either.

How is asking for fact-based judgments and not rushing headfirst into an impeachment "Republican talking points''? Waiting for real facts, being cynical about media reports written by highly partisan human beings, not wanting to see the country torn apart any further: that's now a right-wing talking point.

If you ask me how Trump has truly hurt America, I'd say he has caused otherwise sane and intelligent human beings to suspend rational thinking and simply tilt at the prevailing windmill. The mob is our new leader. I am afraid to say I have never been a fan of mob thought.

So, you want to know my politics? Perhaps an admission or three will help: the two worst politicians in the last half century have been Dick Cheney and George W Bush. Two of the best were Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama. And I am a massive fan of Tulsi Gabbard. Does that help you at all? Or are we still stuck on confirmation bias?

Again, welcome to this side of the boards. The water can get hot in here.

I'm entirely cool with waiting for facts...I'm apparently not as skeptical of the MSM press reporting than you are, as they indeed self-correct if they get a story wrong, but I quite agree that the more we get to see corroborated the stronger the story becomes.

And I bother to actually read for myself docs like the Mueller Report, so I find it's dismissal by those who haven't to be the problem, not the MSM.

[dislaxxic]

Many Trumpists CELEBRATE the fact that he has "infected our entire body politic"...yes, they see that as a real plus. I'm not an establishment guy either...on that we can agree. Biden is more of an establishment guy...and Tulsi worked for the DNC, right? Although there seems to have been a bit of a falling out. I will admit to being pretty ignorant of her as a politician...am i right that she is now the consummate "outsider", or wishes us to believe she is that? MAybe there's a place for her in the upcoming Warren administration...

Wondering where you get YOUR news, PB. It is indeed the Age of Fake News and some seem to employ the tactic like a bludgeon.

What, exactly was it that causes such rage from you about Dick Cheney? or Shrub? Compare what THEY did, how they approached the presidency, to the current occupant.

Before your plane takes off, please...

..

[Peter Brown]

Again, PB, it's as if you are reading from Devin Nunes' tweets and talking points on Fox News.

I listened to the entire hearing, having read the release yesterday fully, but not yet having read the WB complaint. In no way at all was it confusing about whether Schiff was 'reading' Trump's words, indeed he made very clear from the outset of his recitation that he was summarizing the gist, the message, contained in the call so that we could all decipher the logic flow...which he indeed captured pretty darn accurately, though with a flourish here or there for emphasis. He later made clear that he was parodying Trump's words for effect. Maybe you missed all that and just listened to Fox or Nunes, but no one actually listening live, with half a brain, should have actually been confused.

I quite disagree re 'crime'. Nope, an "abuse of power", especially as egregious as this one is 100% on point for impeachment. Getting a BJ in the WH and then lying about it might not be, but this is an actual abuse of Presidential powers, with significant national security implications.

There's no need to prove a statute was broken if the oath of office is broken.

I'm in an airport in DC...I'm fairly sure Fox is not on.

Like I said, Trump has caused otherwise intelligent humans to become ghosts of their past intelligent selves. Gullibility, hysteria, groupthink. Don't wait for facts. What's that Alice in Wonderland line: Sentence First–verdict Afterward. Many here (see above) seem to be paid up members.

Trump asks for an investigation into the 2016 election; media says he asked for a 'favor' for this year's election. Guilty I say! Off with his head.

hayzeus, the insanity is depressing.

[RedFromMI]

Analysis of phone call summary from Lawfare blog:

Self-Impeaching: On the Trump-Zelensky Conversation

https://www.lawfareblog.com/self-impeac ... nversation

Some quotes:

This time it’s different.

The misconduct cannot be dismissed as unproven; it screams off the plain text of the White House’s own memorandum detailing the president’s phone conversation with his Ukrainian counterpart. It cannot be disparaged as the result of a “Witch Hunt” or blamed on angry Democrats working for a special counsel or attempting a coup from the depths of the “Deep State.” The revelation did not flow from any investigation at all but, instead, from the complaints of shocked subordinates, complaints that generated pressure that ultimately caused the president himself to fess up and release the document. It cannot be blamed on “The Squad” or on Nancy Pelosi or on Adam Schiff. None of these people made the president say the words that appear in that document. None of them made him take the actions into which the memo offers dramatic visibility. Nor does the president deny that he said those words. He just thinks it’s fine for a president to do so.

Before turning to what this document says, what it means and how we should collectively think about it, it’s important to emphasize that the memo does not represent the full scope of the still-emerging scandal that is L’Affaire Ukraine. For the past few weeks, the public has been looking at a complex scene through the narrowest of keyholes. That scene involves not just this one phone call but also Rudy Giuliani’s interactions with the Ukrainian government, machinations in the White House, the withholding of aid to Ukraine and presumably a bunch of other presidential actions. (Here is a timeline of the known events.) The release of this document does not completely fill out the picture. It dramatically fills out just one component of the picture. So keep in mind that we are still looking through a keyhole at the scene—just a keyhole whose aperture has suddenly widened and thus provided a clearer view of part of the hidden room. However bad the White House memorandum is—and it is very bad indeed—the full reality is almost certainly far worse.

Have a read - good lawyers are looking at this...

[dislaxxic]

By the way, compiled a few of the things you've written today alone...after you "whined" about being accused of parroting rightwingnuttery...go ahead, defend the words:

I believe that the current voice of the Democrat Party, as evidenced by Twitter and places like this board (where I have read but never posted), is toxic to America and the American spirit

the Dem Party is now the party of Permanent War

do you think for a second Hillary wouldn't be bombing the living hole out of Iran by now

This is the same nonsense as the old/new NYT Kavanaugh revelations (proven false the day they are released) and the Russia-gate conspiracy where we are assured Trump will be indicted

I know a fake story when I see it, like this newest Ukraine nonsense. You'll see in time the 'whistleblower' is a partisan Democrat living in DC, he never heard anything firsthand (it was all secondhand info), his lawyers are partisan Dems, and the story is disjointed as all second hand or third hand stories are, yet we are already into impeachment!

Using a term like "Democrat Party" is a stone tell.

Can you see how some of us would be confused??

..

[old salt]

In no way at all was it confusing about whether Schiff was 'reading' Trump's words, indeed he made very clear from the outset of his recitation that he was summarizing the gist, the message, contained in the call so that we could all decipher the logic flow...which he indeed captured pretty darn accurately, though with a flourish here or there for emphasis. He later made clear that he was parodying Trump's words for effect.

Would the subsequent video clips of Schiff's recitation make clear to the uninitiated viewer that it was a parody ?