Page 30 of 41
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:18 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:07 pm
xxxxxxx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:00 pm
I'm sorry you can't be in the top 20 if you are 1-3 and just scored 6 goals against an average Hopkins team...
If you lose to the #1, #2, and #3 teams in the nation and beat #11, logic would say that you should be between #4 and #10, no?
Presuming the ranking of those four opponents was appropriate which requires continuous calibration. The anchoring is the problem. Doesn’t matter if you beat the #1 first week of the season if they turn out to be mediocre (think the year Air Force beat UVA, 04?, to start the season)
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:23 pm
by Henpecked
I was suggesting that the ranking will mean less this year than in others. With the Big 10 and many other conferences just playing conference play only, there is no real way to assess teams fairly in a ranking order. The committee will go back to choosing the teams it likes. Teams that pass the eye test. Is Penn State good or is the Big 10 weak this year? There is no way to tell with no out-of-conference play. They looked very mediocre in the games I watched.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:35 pm
by Matnum PI
random observer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:11 pm
Except that's not the scenario. They just got boat raced by an ok Hopkins team.
agreed. the point is that you can be 1-3 and the #4 team in the country.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:36 pm
by Matnum PI
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:18 pm
Presuming the ranking of those four opponents was appropriate which requires continuous calibration. The anchoring is the problem. Doesn’t matter if you beat the #1 first week of the season if they turn out to be mediocre (think the year Air Force beat UVA, 04?, to start the season)
agreed. when i say #1, #2, and #3, I mean currently #1, #2, and #3. Not when they played the team.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:52 pm
by Matnum PI
Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:16 pm
Depends on how much you lose by.
i don't subscribe to this perspective. for me, an L is an L, a W is a W. but i understand why some people value scores.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:54 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:36 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:18 pm
Presuming the ranking of those four opponents was appropriate which requires continuous calibration. The anchoring is the problem. Doesn’t matter if you beat the #1 first week of the season if they turn out to be mediocre (think the year Air Force beat UVA, 04?, to start the season)
agreed. when i say #1, #2, and #3, I mean currently #1, #2, and #3. Not when they played the team.
We’re on the same page I just see folks mix and match for their own arguments at their convenience.
There can be exceptions if you beat a team and then they lost a elite or critical player to a season ending injury I think it’s fair to incorporate that qualitative factor but should be done judiciously.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:57 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:52 pm
Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:16 pm
Depends on how much you lose by.
i don't subscribe to this perspective. for me, an L is an L, a W is a W. but i understand why some people value scores.
At the extremes I think there is a difference between an OT L and being out of the game before halftime. But hard to determine much between 3-9 goal margin, give or take.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:03 pm
by Matnum PI
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:57 pm
At the extremes I think there is a difference between an OT L and being out of the game before halftime. But hard to determine much between 3-9 goal margin, give or take.
I see it like my racing Usain Bolt. What matters is that he beats me. How much he beats me by is irrelevant because he might take his foot off the pedal or I might and... Ws and Ls. Denver played Duke and lost by 2. Then played UNC and lost by 11. Does this demonstrate that UNC is better than Duke? Personally, I don't think so.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:08 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Well in that circumstance would you factor the UNC game being played BTB on a long road trip or that Duke was in game 1 trying to integrate a slew of new starters including goalie, FOGO and attack?
I know your general belief and ranking system. But to only go by a binary result in a small sample size is where I still can’t be all in
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:24 pm
by Matnum PI
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:08 pm
But to only go by a binary result in a small sample size is where I still can’t be all in
Nor I. Binary I'm fine with. Losing in 3 OT hurts so much because... It's a loss. I think binary is the reality of sports. Sample size is different. The amount and quality of data matters. Heck, Ivy teams are 0-0 and they're still well ranked in some Rankings.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:02 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Well let’s not go Ivy shaming because they chose not to participate.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:23 pm
by blue angels
Dip&Dunk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:49 pm
Good ole boys ranking system:
DU's wins against teams with a combined record of 6-15. Hey, I recognize their coach's name. Lets make them number ten in the nation (or Q making them 11).
JHU has two wins against teams with a combined record of 1-7. Hey, they are JHU. Lets make them number 15 in the nation (Or Q making them 14).
PSU cannot beat a team that only beats teams with losing records. Hey, I thought they were better than this. Lets make them number 17 (Or Q making them 16).
This is not a ranking system. It is a wish list.
Well.....Denver just pummeled #4 ranked Georgetown, who hadn’t beaten anyone. This shouldn’t have been much of a surprise to anyone, other than whomever wrote the IL article, “Hoya Destroya” ,as Georgetown was ridiculously over ranked. Regardless, Denver has played a very tough schedule as has another team or 2. They shouldn’t be penalized for it in the rankings over some team that is undefeated against patsies.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:39 pm
by Matnum PI
blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:23 pm
Well.....Denver just pummeled #4 ranked Georgetown, who hadn’t beaten anyone. This shouldn’t have been much of a surprise to anyone, other than whomever wrote the IL article, as Georgetown was ridiculously over ranked. Regardless, Denver has played a very tough schedule as has another team or 2. They shouldn’t be penalized for it in the rankings over some team that is undefeated against patsies.
G'town was overrated because there's a large faction of people who love undefeated (no matter who those defeats are against) and blow-outs (no matter who those blow-ours are against).
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:07 pm
by Farfromgeneva
What do we do with Rutgers if we now find wins over PSU by two and blowing out a “eh” OSU because they flew up over those two wins but now they don’t look so great.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:09 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:39 pm
blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:23 pm
Well.....Denver just pummeled #4 ranked Georgetown, who hadn’t beaten anyone. This shouldn’t have been much of a surprise to anyone, other than whomever wrote the IL article, as Georgetown was ridiculously over ranked. Regardless, Denver has played a very tough schedule as has another team or 2. They shouldn’t be penalized for it in the rankings over some team that is undefeated against patsies.
G'town was overrated because there's a large faction of people who love undefeated (no matter who those defeats are against) and blow-outs (no matter who those blow-ours are against).
Fattylaxwheatfield wants to yell at you now and bring up Bucknell 1996 again.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:11 pm
by wgdsr
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:07 pm
What do we do with Rutgers if we now find wins over PSU by two and blowing out a “eh” OSU because they flew up over those two wins but now they don’t look so great.
b1g is still umd, 2-4 2020, 2-4 2020, tosu underperforming, psu sans ament and mich. to me. we'll see.
hopkins did look good for the 2 quarters i saw, not nearly the jayvee team it looked like on opening weekend.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:15 pm
by wgdsr
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:39 pm
blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:23 pm
Well.....Denver just pummeled #4 ranked Georgetown, who hadn’t beaten anyone. This shouldn’t have been much of a surprise to anyone, other than whomever wrote the IL article, as Georgetown was ridiculously over ranked. Regardless, Denver has played a very tough schedule as has another team or 2. They shouldn’t be penalized for it in the rankings over some team that is undefeated against patsies.
G'town was overrated because there's a large faction of people who love undefeated (no matter who those defeats are against) and blow-outs (no matter who those blow-ours are against).
g'town getting beat on pretty hard. hoo has beaten 2 teams with winning records so far?
what's the list? unc, army, uva and now denver today?
g'town hammered what might be a decent villanova team. marquette might not be world beaters, but hung with denver. game was cross country at denver. we'll see how the next one goes and vs loyola.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:25 pm
by rolldodge
wgdsr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:15 pm
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:39 pm
blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:23 pm
Well.....Denver just pummeled #4 ranked Georgetown, who hadn’t beaten anyone. This shouldn’t have been much of a surprise to anyone, other than whomever wrote the IL article, as Georgetown was ridiculously over ranked. Regardless, Denver has played a very tough schedule as has another team or 2. They shouldn’t be penalized for it in the rankings over some team that is undefeated against patsies.
G'town was overrated because there's a large faction of people who love undefeated (no matter who those defeats are against) and blow-outs (no matter who those blow-ours are against).
g'town getting beat on pretty hard. hoo has beaten 2 teams with winning records so far?
what's the list? unc, army, uva and now denver today?
g'town hammered what might be a decent villanova team. marquette might not be world beaters, but hung with denver. game was cross country at denver. we'll see how the next one goes and vs loyola.
Welcome to Schrodinger's Rankings, where Georgetown is both "ridiculously" overrated, but also a great win for Denver. If Georgetown had won, the talk would be about how Denver might just not be so good this year. Thankfully, the rankings are only meaningful as time-wasters on internet forums.
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:51 pm
by jrn19
rolldodge wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:25 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:15 pm
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:39 pm
blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:23 pm
Well.....Denver just pummeled #4 ranked Georgetown, who hadn’t beaten anyone. This shouldn’t have been much of a surprise to anyone, other than whomever wrote the IL article, as Georgetown was ridiculously over ranked. Regardless, Denver has played a very tough schedule as has another team or 2. They shouldn’t be penalized for it in the rankings over some team that is undefeated against patsies.
G'town was overrated because there's a large faction of people who love undefeated (no matter who those defeats are against) and blow-outs (no matter who those blow-ours are against).
g'town getting beat on pretty hard. hoo has beaten 2 teams with winning records so far?
what's the list? unc, army, uva and now denver today?
g'town hammered what might be a decent villanova team. marquette might not be world beaters, but hung with denver. game was cross country at denver. we'll see how the next one goes and vs loyola.
Welcome to Schrodinger's Rankings, where Georgetown is both "ridiculously" overrated, but also a great win for Denver. If Georgetown had won, the talk would be about how Denver might just not be so good this year. Thankfully, the rankings are only meaningful as time-wasters on internet forums.
Love the critique of “people loving blowouts” as if blowing out teams - no matter the quality - isn’t a pretty good indicator of being a good team!
Re: D1 Men Rankings
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:57 pm
by Matnum PI
wgdsr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:15 pm
hoo has beaten 2 teams with winning records so far? what's the list? unc, army, uva and now denver today?
i'm not bothered by losing records... depending who those losses were against. I'm OK with UVA.
For me, based on the Ws and Ls and who those Ws and Ls were against, currently, this is how I see it.
I. North Carolina, Maryland
II. Duke (Though I think Duke is good, really good, I can't put them in the first tier when their resume is Denver and then the rest of their Ws are beating up on numerous not so good teams.)
III. Virginia, Syracuse, Army, Rutgers, Denver