LaxPower Back-Up Stick

youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:39 pm So the IL presidents walked their original decision back?

No. Nothing about the rule or decision changed. Teat hasn’t graduated yet and got a waiver that allows him to come back. The other Cornell seniors can’t come back through the same means Teat did

jrn19 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:22 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:39 pm So the IL presidents walked their original decision back?

No. Nothing about the rule or decision changed. Teat hasn’t graduated yet and got a waiver that allows him to come back. The other Cornell seniors can’t come back through the same means Teat did

That is the confusing part. Was Teat not in a position to graduate this semester but Sowers was....even if Sowers withdrew this last semester. Or Princeton just had a blanket statement....no one can return?

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:36 pm

jrn19 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:15 pm

cuseman4133 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:02 pm Not a huge surprise given all the silence, but Jeff Teat is coming back to Cornell per Chris Jast.

He says more seniors are coming back as well. Would be curious as to who else. https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 5000911880

How exactly are they gonna pull these seniors coming back off? We know Teat didn’t graduate yet, which would explain why he was able to find a way back. But all the other seniors seemed to have graduated, in which case I’m really confused as to how they’re able to return. TD for example still had a few outstanding credits left. I don’t think anyone yet who actually graduated from the Ivy has announced their return

Yeah, the reasoning behind Teat's return according to Cornell's press release isn't going to apply to guys who already graduated:

Under Ivy rules, eligibility beyond four calendar years requires approval of the Executive Director. Among other factors, approval is contingent upon the student having an academic enrollment plan that is approved by institutional academic officials. Teat worked with university advisors to develop an academic plan that would allow him to complete remaining degree requirements, as well as additional coursework that supports his career goals, during the spring 2021 semester.

If the guys who graduated really are coming back too, they're going to have to find a different way to bend the rules. You can't graduate and just stay on campus to take classes unless you're part of a graduate program/working toward another degree. And that is clearly against Ivy rules.

If other Cornell seniors are coming back, we can assume their being listing in the Cornell commencement program was erroneous. I would figure that the program was printed some time before the ceremony, and those seniors were included as a matter of course. Maybe Teat wasn’t listed because he acted earlier than the others.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:43 pm

jrn19 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:22 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:39 pm So the IL presidents walked their original decision back?

No. Nothing about the rule or decision changed. Teat hasn’t graduated yet and got a waiver that allows him to come back. The other Cornell seniors can’t come back through the same means Teat did

That is the confusing part. Was Teat not in a position to graduate this semester but Sowers was....even if Sowers withdrew this last semester. Or Princeton just had a blanket statement....no one can return?

Sowers graduated. They weren't going to let him withdraw and then come back just to come back. He was on track to graduate. Teat hadn't graduated yet, wasn't as far along or had 1 or 2 classes left perhaps, and then worked out a plan for him to graduate and then got the waiver.

jrn19 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:15 pm

cuseman4133 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:02 pm Not a huge surprise given all the silence, but Jeff Teat is coming back to Cornell per Chris Jast.

He says more seniors are coming back as well. Would be curious as to who else. https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 5000911880

How exactly are they gonna pull these seniors coming back off? We know Teat didn’t graduate yet, which would explain why he was able to find a way back. But all the other seniors seemed to have graduated, in which case I’m really confused as to how they’re able to return. TD for example still had a few outstanding credits left. I don’t think anyone yet who actually graduated from the Ivy has announced their return

The report I've seen said TD still had a semester's worth of credits to go because Yale didn't accept all of his credits from Albany.... plus, as I understand, he hadn't spent 8 semesters at Yale (which would have made him ineligible according to Yale's rules).

FannOLax wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:15 am

jrn19 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:15 pm

cuseman4133 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:02 pm Not a huge surprise given all the silence, but Jeff Teat is coming back to Cornell per Chris Jast.

He says more seniors are coming back as well. Would be curious as to who else. https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 5000911880

How exactly are they gonna pull these seniors coming back off? We know Teat didn’t graduate yet, which would explain why he was able to find a way back. But all the other seniors seemed to have graduated, in which case I’m really confused as to how they’re able to return. TD for example still had a few outstanding credits left. I don’t think anyone yet who actually graduated from the Ivy has announced their return

The report I've seen said TD still had a semester's worth of credits to go because Yale didn't accept all of his credits from Albany.... plus, as I understand, he hadn't spent 8 semesters at Yale (which would have made him ineligible according to Yale's rules).

TD had a job lined up which led me to believe that his course work was done or not that high a barrier.

“Ierlan, a political science major, said he had some employment options after graduating Yale this spring. But the bigger issue is the Ivy League rule that doesn’t allow graduate students to play a sport.”

My guess is that Cornell just is more acceptable of loopholes. They did the same with Pannell.
Yale felt like they could justify Ierlan because he hadn't gone 4 years at Yale.

If school directors of Princeton really wanted they could've had Sowers and Robertson back.
But chose to have a strict image.

But as I said. Just a guess

spartanslynx wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:43 am My guess is that Cornell just is more acceptable of loopholes. They did the same with Pannell.
Yale felt like they could justify Ierlan because he hadn't gone 4 years at Yale.

If school directors of Princeton really wanted they could've had Sowers and Robertson back.
But chose to have a strict image.

But as I said. Just a guess

As the reports said, Jeff Teat's request had to be approved by the Executive Director of the Ivy League. So regardless of Cornell's view on this issue, the League had to approve it. Rob Pannell had a broken foot early enough in the season to permit the extra year.

spartanslynx wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:43 am My guess is that Cornell just is more acceptable of loopholes. They did the same with Pannell.
Yale felt like they could justify Ierlan because he hadn't gone 4 years at Yale.

If school directors of Princeton really wanted they could've had Sowers and Robertson back.
But chose to have a strict image.

But as I said. Just a guess

Yes. Particularly at Harvard and Princeton. Existing academic policy provided for a withdraw and return. Princeton and Harvard administrations decided to override it.

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:17 am

spartanslynx wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:43 am My guess is that Cornell just is more acceptable of loopholes. They did the same with Pannell.
Yale felt like they could justify Ierlan because he hadn't gone 4 years at Yale.

If school directors of Princeton really wanted they could've had Sowers and Robertson back.
But chose to have a strict image.

But as I said. Just a guess

As the reports said, Jeff Teat's request had to be approved by the Executive Director of the Ivy League. So regardless of Cornell's view on this issue, the League had to approve it. Rob Pannell had a broken foot early enough in the season to permit the extra year.

....and that is why I was wondering how Teat differed from Sowers. I assume, as another poster said, Teat may have needed more time than sowers to graduate.

I'm happy for all those Ivy seniors who will be able to return to play next year but I do think that the league made a mistake by leaving the decision up to member institutions. It would've been much cleaner - and more equitable for the student-athletes - if it had said all or none.

spartanslynx wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:43 am My guess is that Cornell just is more acceptable of loopholes. They did the same with Pannell.
Yale felt like they could justify Ierlan because he hadn't gone 4 years at Yale.

If school directors of Princeton really wanted they could've had Sowers and Robertson back.
But chose to have a strict image.

But as I said. Just a guess

Pannell hadn’t graduated yet. There’s no loophole within the rules for when players are graduates, the Ivy doesn’t allow that. And if all the other seniors are graduates, which is what it appears to be, then there’s no loophole to be found there to know my knowledge

The point is that when the season was canceled, none of the senior class had graduated yet. They could have withdrawn from the school at that point and still had a semester remaining to graduate, which they would have taken in the spring of 2021. But Princeton and Harvard wouldn’t allow it, while it appears Yale and Cornell have. As one poster mentioned, for there to be such a discrepancy within the league is a mess.

ctbagataway wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:06 pm The point is that when the season was canceled, none of the senior class had graduated yet. They could have withdrawn from the school at that point and still had a semester remaining to graduate, which they would have taken in the spring of 2021. But Princeton and Harvard wouldn’t allow it, while it appears Yale and Cornell have. As one poster mentioned, for there to be such a discrepancy within the league is a mess.

Every Cornell Senior was listed in their graduate program except for Teat. Maybe that’s wrong, but based on what we know it looks like all of them graduated except for Teat, who is now back.

And we went over this when it was applicable, but the “withdraw and then just come back for lacrosse” thing was not possible. Schools weren’t going to allow that. TD and Teat weren’t on track to graduate just yet, while Sowers was. So TD and Teat are coming back. But if you were on track to graduate, they weren’t gonna let you withdraw and come back like that. That wasn’t what Pannell did either, he hadn’t finished all of his courses that semester.

ctbagataway wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:06 pm The point is that when the season was canceled, none of the senior class had graduated yet. They could have withdrawn from the school at that point and still had a semester remaining to graduate, which they would have taken in the spring of 2021. But Princeton and Harvard wouldn’t allow it, while it appears Yale and Cornell have. As one poster mentioned, for there to be such a discrepancy within the league is a mess.

Well, Yale are losing Morrill, Cotler and Ward to grad-school transfers, and others (Gaudet and Hynes) to pro lax, keeping just one based on a rather particular set of circumstances that didn't involve the student-athlete withdrawing from school. One could say that, overall, the League lost a huge amount of talent, but with two exceptions that prove the rule.

ctbagataway wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:06 pm The point is that when the season was canceled, none of the senior class had graduated yet. They could have withdrawn from the school at that point and still had a semester remaining to graduate, which they would have taken in the spring of 2021. But Princeton and Harvard wouldn’t allow it, while it appears Yale and Cornell have. As one poster mentioned, for there to be such a discrepancy within the league is a mess.

Yale only allowed it for TD. The administration could have easily moved him along as he planned on graduating and starting work.

The Ivy League set the rules that minimally have to be obeyed to gain the ability to apply for the extra year of play. Some schools like Princeton chose to be stricter than the rules. Cornell decided to minimally comply with the rules. I gather Sowers could have theoretically transferred to Cornell (if he wanted to upgrade his education!), sit out a year if required for an intra Ivy transfer and apply for his extra year at Cornell.

spartanslynx wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:43 am My guess is that Cornell just is more acceptable of loopholes. They did the same with Pannell.
Yale felt like they could justify Ierlan because he hadn't gone 4 years at Yale.

If school directors of Princeton really wanted they could've had Sowers and Robertson back.
But chose to have a strict image.

But as I said. Just a guess

Relax guys! It's just smoke and mirrors!

jrn19 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:24 pm

ctbagataway wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:06 pm The point is that when the season was canceled, none of the senior class had graduated yet. They could have withdrawn from the school at that point and still had a semester remaining to graduate, which they would have taken in the spring of 2021. But Princeton and Harvard wouldn’t allow it, while it appears Yale and Cornell have. As one poster mentioned, for there to be such a discrepancy within the league is a mess.

Every Cornell Senior was listed in their graduate program except for Teat. Maybe that’s wrong, but based on what we know it looks like all of them graduated except for Teat, who is now back.

And we went over this when it was applicable, but the “withdraw and then just come back for lacrosse” thing was not possible. Schools weren’t going to allow that. TD and Teat weren’t on track to graduate just yet, while Sowers was. So TD and Teat are coming back. But if you were on track to graduate, they weren’t gonna let you withdraw and come back like that. That wasn’t what Pannell did either, he hadn’t finished all of his courses that semester.

Are there any official statements that support the bolded above? Because being on track to graduate, withdrawing, and coming back (perhaps with an 'enhanced' curriculum) seems like exactly what Cornell and Yale are allowing with Teat/TD. Maybe Yale feels they can hide behind it a bit better with the credits that didn't transfer, but that's exactly what both schools are doing. I say that without any judgement, as I'm elated both may get a true senior season, but let's call a spade a spade here.

semsox wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:46 pm

jrn19 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:24 pm

ctbagataway wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:06 pm The point is that when the season was canceled, none of the senior class had graduated yet. They could have withdrawn from the school at that point and still had a semester remaining to graduate, which they would have taken in the spring of 2021. But Princeton and Harvard wouldn’t allow it, while it appears Yale and Cornell have. As one poster mentioned, for there to be such a discrepancy within the league is a mess.

Every Cornell Senior was listed in their graduate program except for Teat. Maybe that’s wrong, but based on what we know it looks like all of them graduated except for Teat, who is now back.

And we went over this when it was applicable, but the “withdraw and then just come back for lacrosse” thing was not possible. Schools weren’t going to allow that. TD and Teat weren’t on track to graduate just yet, while Sowers was. So TD and Teat are coming back. But if you were on track to graduate, they weren’t gonna let you withdraw and come back like that. That wasn’t what Pannell did either, he hadn’t finished all of his courses that semester.

Are there any official statements that support the bolded above? Because being on track to graduate, withdrawing, and coming back (perhaps with an 'enhanced' curriculum) seems like exactly what Cornell and Yale are allowing with Teat/TD. Maybe Yale feels they can hide behind it a bit better with the credits that didn't transfer, but that's exactly what both schools are doing. I say that without any judgement, as I'm elated both may get a true senior season, but let's call a spade a spade here.

The answer is no.
Its all speculation.
I’m presuming this is protected information,
so only Teat knows if he was on track to graduate
on time.