LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:14 am**

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:17 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:31 am Yup, Republicans, whether rank and file, or their representatives, don't want immigration reform.

You've just confirmed it.

And in response, you greatly exaggerate (ala right wing media) the Dems reason to want easier immigration.
Republicans don't want open borders, which is your version of immigration reform.

Republicans want immigration laws that are enforceable that do not facilitate millions of unlawful residents.
That's the Republican version of immigration reform.

Republicans when in power haven't enforced the current laws on the books for immigration. Neither have the Dems. What makes you think that if new laws are passed that they will suddenly be enforced?

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:21 am**

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:17 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:31 am Yup, Republicans, whether rank and file, or their representatives, don't want immigration reform.

You've just confirmed it.

And in response, you greatly exaggerate (ala right wing media) the Dems reason to want easier immigration.
Republicans don't want open borders, which is your version of immigration reform. BS, and a lie; that's not remotely my view. In fact, I don't know anyone who holds that view, nor can I think of a fellow poster on here that holds that view. You are being dishonest.

Republicans want immigration laws that are enforceable that do not facilitate millions of unlawful residents.
That's the Republican version of immigration reform.

Unfortunately, that's only what many Republicans used to want. Now, that's no longer true of the large majority of Republicans. The party has actually become anti-legal immigration from "s-hole' counties, or Muslim, or whatever isn't consistent with their view of their comfortable hegemony...that's the truth. They've bought into "replacement theory", whether in its ugliest, racist sense or in a softer "we just don't need more people" sense.

Meanwhile, the large funders of the GOP continue to not want to be responsible for enforcement of laws against employing illegal immigrants. Won't support e-Verify.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:25 pm**

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:32 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:58 pm The Dems are getting what they want outside of our laws, just like the cartels of smugglers & trafficker.
And the Republicans have the same blood on their hands, mon ami.

You still haven't answered: why didn't Trump and McConnell close the loophole?
Because the House (R)'s were never behind the bi-partisan Senate compromise which Trump would have signed if Congress passed it.
Schumer & Durbin pulled the (D) support before it got started, blaming Trump's s-hole country remark.
Trump would have signed anything that made it through Congress, declared victory & claimed he fixed the problem.

You still haven't answered the question. I'm not asking about the "bi partisan Senate compromise" for larger immigration bills.

I'm asking, for the third time now: why didn't Trump and McConnell close the asylum loophole?

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:31 pm**

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:17 am Republicans don't want open borders, which is your version of immigration reform.

Buffalo bagels. They had full control of Congress for at least two years under both Bush and Trump. They didn't fix the problem, and the flow from the Southern border kept right on coming.

They 100% want open borders. If they didn't? Trump and McConnell would have fixed the whole enchilada within months of Trump taking office.

Or, if you prefer, Bush would have done the same post 9/11, which was the PERFECT time to fix immigration and our borders in the name of national security. What did Bush do instead? Nothing. Not a thing to protect our borders, and didn't turn EVerify on.

I have no idea why it's so difficult for you to acknowledge that your party is lying to you about immigration to get your vote, OS.

You're too smart to fall for this.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:37 pm Republicans want immigration laws that are enforceable that do not facilitate millions of unlawful residents.
That's the Republican version of immigration reform.

Which is why they don't turn on Everify. And why they don't ever go after businesses for hiring illegal workers.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:21 pm**

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:31 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:17 am Republicans don't want open borders, which is your version of immigration reform.
Buffalo bagels. They had full control of Congress for at least two years under both Bush and Trump. They didn't fix the problem, and the flow from the Southern border kept right on coming.

They 100% want open borders. If they didn't? Trump and McConnell would have fixed the whole enchilada within months of Trump taking office.

Or, if you prefer, Bush would have done the same post 9/11, which was the PERFECT time to fix immigration and our borders in the name of national security. What did Bush do instead? Nothing. Not a thing to protect our borders, and didn't turn EVerify on.

I have no idea why it's so difficult for you to acknowledge that your party is lying to you about immigration to get your vote, OS.

You're too smart to fall for this.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:37 pm Republicans want immigration laws that are enforceable that do not facilitate millions of unlawful residents.
That's the Republican version of immigration reform.
Which is why they don't turn on Everify. And why they don't ever go after businesses for hiring illegal workers.

Exactly. They want slaves AND plausible deniability.

And luckily for them, that siht sandwich seems to fly…

Critical thinking appears to be a critically rare skill for humans.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:53 pm**

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:21 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:31 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:17 am Republicans don't want open borders, which is your version of immigration reform.
Buffalo bagels. They had full control of Congress for at least two years under both Bush and Trump. They didn't fix the problem, and the flow from the Southern border kept right on coming.

They 100% want open borders. If they didn't? Trump and McConnell would have fixed the whole enchilada within months of Trump taking office.

Or, if you prefer, Bush would have done the same post 9/11, which was the PERFECT time to fix immigration and our borders in the name of national security. What did Bush do instead? Nothing. Not a thing to protect our borders, and didn't turn EVerify on.

I have no idea why it's so difficult for you to acknowledge that your party is lying to you about immigration to get your vote, OS.

You're too smart to fall for this.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:37 pm Republicans want immigration laws that are enforceable that do not facilitate millions of unlawful residents.
That's the Republican version of immigration reform.
Which is why they don't turn on Everify. And why they don't ever go after businesses for hiring illegal workers.
Exactly. They want slaves AND plausible deniability.

And luckily for them, that siht sandwich seems to fly…

Critical thinking appears to be a critically rare skill for humans.

And they have figured out how to get the peasantry to fight for them.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:13 pm**

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:25 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:32 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:58 pm The Dems are getting what they want outside of our laws, just like the cartels of smugglers & trafficker.
And the Republicans have the same blood on their hands, mon ami.

You still haven't answered: why didn't Trump and McConnell close the loophole?
Because the House (R)'s were never behind the bi-partisan Senate compromise which Trump would have signed if Congress passed it.
Schumer & Durbin pulled the (D) support before it got started, blaming Trump's s-hole country remark.
Trump would have signed anything that made it through Congress, declared victory & claimed he fixed the problem.
You still haven't answered the question. I'm not asking about the "bi partisan Senate compromise" for larger immigration bills.

I'm asking, for the third time now: why didn't Trump and McConnell close the asylum loophole?

It requires 60 Senate votes.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm**

Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:14 am
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:17 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:31 am Yup, Republicans, whether rank and file, or their representatives, don't want immigration reform.

You've just confirmed it.

And in response, you greatly exaggerate (ala right wing media) the Dems reason to want easier immigration.
Republicans don't want open borders, which is your version of immigration reform.

Republicans want immigration laws that are enforceable that do not facilitate millions of unlawful residents.
That's the Republican version of immigration reform.
Republicans when in power haven't enforced the current laws on the books for immigration. Neither have the Dems. What makes you think that if new laws are passed that they will suddenly be enforced?

They were being enforced until the enforcement agencies were overwhelmed by the numbers of migrants exploiting the asylum loophole,
Biden ordered DHS to stop deportations & stopped enforcing the remain in Mexico policy (despite a court order) & sanctuary cities stopped co-operating with DHS.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:35 pm**

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:31 pm Which is why they don't turn on Everify. And why they don't ever go after businesses for hiring illegal workers.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/12/10452956 ... -raids-dhs

Homeland Security secretary orders ICE to stop mass raids on immigrants' workplaces
October 12, 2021

Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents will no longer conduct mass raids on workplaces where undocumented immigrants are employed, according to a new order by Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

During the Trump administration, ICE carried out several massive workplace raids that the then-president touted as a centerpiece of his crackdown on undocumented immigration. One operation in 2018 resulted in the arrest of 146 employees at a meat processing company in northeast Ohio.

That raid was followed by an operation in 2019 in which ICE agents arrested approximately 680 people at food processing plants in Mississippi.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:13 pm**

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm They were being enforced until the enforcement agencies were overwhelmed by the numbers of migrants exploiting the asylum loophole

If your team has been enforcing all immigration laws until this loophole came along..... where the F did the ~20 million illegal immigrants come from, Old Salt?

Did they fall from space?

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:31 pm**

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:13 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm They were being enforced until the enforcement agencies were overwhelmed by the numbers of migrants exploiting the asylum loophole

If your team has been enforcing all immigration laws until this loophole came along..... where the F did the ~20 million illegal immigrants come from, Old Salt?

Did they fall from space?

As you have acknowledged, no one can estimate with any precision, the number of illegal immigrants in the US at any point in time, be it visa overstays or 'gotaways' who crossed the border & evaded apprehension.

Do you deny that handling the increased volume of asylum seekers diverts resources from other border security duties ?

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:01 am**

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:31 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:13 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm They were being enforced until the enforcement agencies were overwhelmed by the numbers of migrants exploiting the asylum loophole

If your team has been enforcing all immigration laws until this loophole came along..... where the F did the ~20 million illegal immigrants come from, Old Salt?

Did they fall from space?
As you have acknowledged, no one can estimate with any precision, the number of illegal immigrants in the US at any point in time, be it visa overstays or 'gotaways' who crossed the border & evaded apprehension.

Do you deny that handling the increased volume of asylum seekers diverts resources from other border security duties ?

First of all, it’s “undocumented” immigrants, not the offensive “illegal” immigrants.

Second, we need tens of millions of additional immigrants of Hispanic, Asian, and other non-European heritage to replace old farts like you, plus an expedited pathway to citizenship for them.

That is all.

DocBarrister

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:03 am**

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:01 am
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:31 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:13 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm They were being enforced until the enforcement agencies were overwhelmed by the numbers of migrants exploiting the asylum loophole

If your team has been enforcing all immigration laws until this loophole came along..... where the F did the ~20 million illegal immigrants come from, Old Salt?

Did they fall from space?
As you have acknowledged, no one can estimate with any precision, the number of illegal immigrants in the US at any point in time, be it visa overstays or 'gotaways' who crossed the border & evaded apprehension.

Do you deny that handling the increased volume of asylum seekers diverts resources from other border security duties ?
First of all, it’s “undocumented” immigrants, not the offensive “illegal” immigrants.

Second, we need tens of millions of additional immigrants of Hispanic, Asian, and other non-European heritage to replace old farts like you, plus an expedited pathway to citizenship for them.

That is all.

DocBarrister

Third -- they need to enter & stay legally. Enforce the existing laws & change them as needed.

I don't care what color the immigrants are or from where they come, so long as they enter & stay legally, & work to support themselves.

Their pathway to citizenship needs to be in line behind applicants who are doing it legally. More temporary work visas until then with greatly increased quotas for citizenship, with credit awarded for time spent working &/or studying in the US.

Stop the race baiting woke word games as an excuse to avoid enforcing the laws that Congress has passed.

That is all.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:21 am**

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:03 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:01 am
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:31 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:13 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm They were being enforced until the enforcement agencies were overwhelmed by the numbers of migrants exploiting the asylum loophole

If your team has been enforcing all immigration laws until this loophole came along..... where the F did the ~20 million illegal immigrants come from, Old Salt?

Did they fall from space?
As you have acknowledged, no one can estimate with any precision, the number of illegal immigrants in the US at any point in time, be it visa overstays or 'gotaways' who crossed the border & evaded apprehension.

Do you deny that handling the increased volume of asylum seekers diverts resources from other border security duties ?
First of all, it’s “undocumented” immigrants, not the offensive “illegal” immigrants.

Second, we need tens of millions of additional immigrants of Hispanic, Asian, and other non-European heritage to replace old farts like you, plus an expedited pathway to citizenship for them.

That is all.

DocBarrister
Third -- they need to enter & stay legally. Enforce the existing laws & change them as needed.

I don't care what color the immigrants are or from where they come, so long as they enter & stay legally, & work to support themselves.

Their pathway to citizenship needs to be in line behind applicants who are doing it legally. More temporary work visas until then with greatly increased quotas for citizenship, with credit awarded for time spent working &/or studying in the US.

Stop the race baiting woke word games as an excuse to avoid enforcing the laws that Congress has passed.

That is all.

I think what you and Doc wrote above, collectively, and if adopted substantively in the entirety, would be supported by most all Dems and most I's and about 20-30% of R's, like me...the problem (which you seem to wish to ignore) is that the GOP has radicalized away from this common sense position, and indeed much of that is very much about bigotry.

And, given how our country is organized politically, that 70-80% of Republicans (MAGA) controls this question. And most of the quiet donors from the 1% are perfectly fine with the status quo, as controlled by those MAGA Republicans.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:45 pm**

Housing and employment. No money, no place to live, people leave.

So, enforce at those two points. And be sure to check the farmworker gulags in BigAg country. Violations fined heavily. Repeat violations lead to forfeiture of capital — land or factories/slaughterhouses.

And, who wants to bet the GOP will squeal like a stuck pig? Their owners wouldn’t like those enforcement policies.

On a somewhat related note, the unionization effort in the face of economic headwinds looks interesting. Of course, if GOP wins control, it’s back to the salt mines, boys and girls.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:56 pm**

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:45 pm Housing and employment. No money, no place to live, people leave.

So, enforce at those two points. And be sure to check the farmworker gulags in BigAg country. Violations fined heavily. Repeat violations lead to forfeiture of capital — land or factories/slaughterhouses.

And, who wants to bet the GOP will squeal like a stuck pig? Their owners wouldn’t like those enforcement policies.

On a somewhat related note, the unionization effort in the face of economic headwinds looks interesting. Of course, if GOP wins control, it’s back to the salt mines, boys and girls.

Everyone knows that unions are bad for employees.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:29 pm**

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:56 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:45 pm Housing and employment. No money, no place to live, people leave.

So, enforce at those two points. And be sure to check the farmworker gulags in BigAg country. Violations fined heavily. Repeat violations lead to forfeiture of capital — land or factories/slaughterhouses.

And, who wants to bet the GOP will squeal like a stuck pig? Their owners wouldn’t like those enforcement policies.

On a somewhat related note, the unionization effort in the face of economic headwinds looks interesting. Of course, if GOP wins control, it’s back to the salt mines, boys and girls.
Everyone knows that unions are bad for employees.

To paraphrase Mr.Orwell, “all employers are bad, and some are worse than others.”

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:04 pm**

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:29 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:56 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:45 pm Housing and employment. No money, no place to live, people leave.

So, enforce at those two points. And be sure to check the farmworker gulags in BigAg country. Violations fined heavily. Repeat violations lead to forfeiture of capital — land or factories/slaughterhouses.

And, who wants to bet the GOP will squeal like a stuck pig? Their owners wouldn’t like those enforcement policies.

On a somewhat related note, the unionization effort in the face of economic headwinds looks interesting. Of course, if GOP wins control, it’s back to the salt mines, boys and girls.
Everyone knows that unions are bad for employees.
To paraphrase Mr.Orwell, “all employers are bad, and some are worse than others.”

mmm...disagree with that one.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:46 pm**

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:31 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:13 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 pm They were being enforced until the enforcement agencies were overwhelmed by the numbers of migrants exploiting the asylum loophole

If your team has been enforcing all immigration laws until this loophole came along..... where the F did the ~20 million illegal immigrants come from, Old Salt?

Did they fall from space?
As you have acknowledged, no one can estimate with any precision, the number of illegal immigrants in the US at any point in time, be it visa overstays or 'gotaways' who crossed the border & evaded apprehension.

Right. In other words: our borders have ALWAYS been open, which is how tens of millions of immigrants arrived in the US BEFORE the asylum loophole. The asylum loophole is just another bump in a very long, open borders road.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:31 pm Do you deny that handling the increased volume of asylum seekers diverts resources from other border security duties ?

Do you deny that not turning on EVerify diverts resources from other border security duties?

I can do this all day.

Next time they're in power, hold your party accountable for the thing that YOU and allegedly THE REPUBLICANS swear you want to fix.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:49 pm**

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:13 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:25 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:32 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:58 pm The Dems are getting what they want outside of our laws, just like the cartels of smugglers & trafficker.
And the Republicans have the same blood on their hands, mon ami.

You still haven't answered: why didn't Trump and McConnell close the loophole?
Because the House (R)'s were never behind the bi-partisan Senate compromise which Trump would have signed if Congress passed it.
Schumer & Durbin pulled the (D) support before it got started, blaming Trump's s-hole country remark.
Trump would have signed anything that made it through Congress, declared victory & claimed he fixed the problem.
You still haven't answered the question. I'm not asking about the "bi partisan Senate compromise" for larger immigration bills.

I'm asking, for the third time now: why didn't Trump and McConnell close the asylum loophole?
It requires 60 Senate votes.

Bzzzt. Nope. All you have to do is make spending a component of the bill, and they can use Reconciliation to fix it.

They didn't.

Heck, technically speaking, the Trump Tax Cuts didn't meet the requirements of reconciliation because it added to the deficit. And yet miracle of all miracles.....it passed.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that the Republicans pass bills that they actually want just fine.

Naaaaaaah. It's all Joe Biden's fault!!!!

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