Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:20 pm
The EU aid is conditioned. It's restricted from use to purchase lethal military aid. The EU restricts such sales to Ukraine.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pmAid is aid...if it is earmarked for butter, use the other pocket for bullets.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:06 pmChaff. Your EU fact sheet is not military aid. The EU is not providing lethal military aid & restricts it's loans & grants for that purpose.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:56 am Trump has a Trump Doctrine...that is laughable for sure!!
Trump admits he held up Ukraine military aid so allies would pay their share
“Other countries should also pay because, frankly, it affects them more. I mean, that’s a barrier. That’s a wall between Russia and the UK. And they don’t pay,” Trump said during a meeting Tuesday with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the United Nations. “And why are they not paying? Why is it always the United States that’s paying?”“I’d withhold again. And I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine,” he said, calling out Germany and France.
EU-Ukraine relations - factsheet
"Since 2014, the EU and the European Financial Institutions have mobilised a package of more than €15 billion in grants and loans to support the reform process, with strong conditionality on continued progress."
That's what makes the US aid different. Things like the Javelin anti-tank weapons.
Thanks for making my point....that Ukraine has gotten billions from the EU.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:22 pmThe EU aid is conditioned. It's restricted from use to purchase lethal military aid. The EU restricts such sales to Ukraine.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pmAid is aid...if it is earmarked for butter, use the other pocket for bullets.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:06 pmChaff. Your EU fact sheet is not military aid. The EU is not providing lethal military aid & restricts it's loans & grants for that purpose.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:56 am Trump has a Trump Doctrine...that is laughable for sure!!
Trump admits he held up Ukraine military aid so allies would pay their share
“Other countries should also pay because, frankly, it affects them more. I mean, that’s a barrier. That’s a wall between Russia and the UK. And they don’t pay,” Trump said during a meeting Tuesday with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the United Nations. “And why are they not paying? Why is it always the United States that’s paying?”“I’d withhold again. And I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine,” he said, calling out Germany and France.
EU-Ukraine relations - factsheet
"Since 2014, the EU and the European Financial Institutions have mobilised a package of more than €15 billion in grants and loans to support the reform process, with strong conditionality on continued progress."
That's what makes the US aid different. Things like the Javelin anti-tank weapons.
Which they cannot use to purchase lethal military aid, which is what the US is providing.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:25 pmThanks for making my point....that Ukraine has gotten billions from the EU.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:22 pmThe EU aid is conditioned. It's restricted from use to purchase lethal military aid. The EU restricts such sales to Ukraine.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pmAid is aid...if it is earmarked for butter, use the other pocket for bullets.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:06 pmChaff. Your EU fact sheet is not military aid. The EU is not providing lethal military aid & restricts it's loans & grants for that purpose.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:56 am Trump has a Trump Doctrine...that is laughable for sure!!
Trump admits he held up Ukraine military aid so allies would pay their share
“Other countries should also pay because, frankly, it affects them more. I mean, that’s a barrier. That’s a wall between Russia and the UK. And they don’t pay,” Trump said during a meeting Tuesday with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the United Nations. “And why are they not paying? Why is it always the United States that’s paying?”“I’d withhold again. And I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine,” he said, calling out Germany and France.
EU-Ukraine relations - factsheet
"Since 2014, the EU and the European Financial Institutions have mobilised a package of more than €15 billion in grants and loans to support the reform process, with strong conditionality on continued progress."
That's what makes the US aid different. Things like the Javelin anti-tank weapons.
Which I haven't suggested otherwise.....Trump's point was that no one sends Ukraine money, which is false.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:31 pmWhich they cannot use to purchase lethal military aid, which is what the US is providing.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:25 pmThanks for making my point....that Ukraine has gotten billions from the EU.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:22 pmThe EU aid is conditioned. It's restricted from use to purchase lethal military aid. The EU restricts such sales to Ukraine.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pmAid is aid...if it is earmarked for butter, use the other pocket for bullets.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:06 pmChaff. Your EU fact sheet is not military aid. The EU is not providing lethal military aid & restricts it's loans & grants for that purpose.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:56 am Trump has a Trump Doctrine...that is laughable for sure!!
Trump admits he held up Ukraine military aid so allies would pay their share
“Other countries should also pay because, frankly, it affects them more. I mean, that’s a barrier. That’s a wall between Russia and the UK. And they don’t pay,” Trump said during a meeting Tuesday with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the United Nations. “And why are they not paying? Why is it always the United States that’s paying?”“I’d withhold again. And I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine,” he said, calling out Germany and France.
EU-Ukraine relations - factsheet
"Since 2014, the EU and the European Financial Institutions have mobilised a package of more than €15 billion in grants and loans to support the reform process, with strong conditionality on continued progress."
That's what makes the US aid different. Things like the Javelin anti-tank weapons.
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articl ... 13769.html
Who's doing more to help Ukraine in their war with Russia ? What military aid is Germany providing ?ggait wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:45 pm Jeez Salty
United States ($204.4 million)
Germany ($189.8 million)
"Much more than the European countries are doing." False. Germany and USA are close to even. And USA is WAY behind if you tally up what all the Euros together are doing.
"Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk." False.
"When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything." False.
So if it was such a big deal, why was the money delayed for so long?old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:53 pmWho's doing more to help Ukraine in their war with Russia ? What military aid is Germany providing ?ggait wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:45 pm Jeez Salty
United States ($204.4 million)
Germany ($189.8 million)
"Much more than the European countries are doing." False. Germany and USA are close to even. And USA is WAY behind if you tally up what all the Euros together are doing.
"Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk." False.
"When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything." False.
The subject of this " scandal ". & Trump's discussion with Zelensky, is military aid to Ukraine. Specifically lethal military aid.
You're just popping chaff, as a diversion.
Based on the WP's unnamed WH sources -- Trump was consistently grousing about the US being the only NATO ally providing lethal aid. He brought it up at every meeting on the issue.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:57 pmSo if it was such a big deal, why was the money delayed for so long?old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:53 pmWho's doing more to help Ukraine in their war with Russia ? What military aid is Germany providing ?ggait wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:45 pm Jeez Salty
United States ($204.4 million)
Germany ($189.8 million)
"Much more than the European countries are doing." False. Germany and USA are close to even. And USA is WAY behind if you tally up what all the Euros together are doing.
"Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk." False.
"When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything." False.
The subject of this " scandal ". & Trump's discussion with Zelensky, is military aid to Ukraine. Specifically lethal military aid.
You're just popping chaff, as a diversion.
Why was no one outside of the WH aware?
I am talking about back in Feb and then again in May.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:11 pmBased on the WP's unnamed WH sources -- Trump was consistently grousing about the US being the only NATO ally providing lethal aid. He brought it up at every meeting on the issue.foreverlax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:57 pmSo if it was such a big deal, why was the money delayed for so long?old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:53 pmWho's doing more to help Ukraine in their war with Russia ? What military aid is Germany providing ?ggait wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:45 pm Jeez Salty
United States ($204.4 million)
Germany ($189.8 million)
"Much more than the European countries are doing." False. Germany and USA are close to even. And USA is WAY behind if you tally up what all the Euros together are doing.
"Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk." False.
"When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything." False.
The subject of this " scandal ". & Trump's discussion with Zelensky, is military aid to Ukraine. Specifically lethal military aid.
You're just popping chaff, as a diversion.
Why was no one outside of the WH aware?
The aid did not have to be released until 30 Sep. Maybe Trump needed to be convinced personally by Zelensky. Maybe he intended to withold it until his UN speech & meetings, so he could hector our NATO partners to do more. Or withhold it until Zelensky's visit so he could make it a big PR deal.
Maybe the WB report prompted him to finally act.
US military aid to Ukraine has been a burr under Trump's saddle since the campaign. Remember when the GOP platform plank was proof of collusion ?a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:14 pm And maybe Obama and Co. lied about the video causing Benghazi because that's what they really thought.
Excuses for one party from you, condemnation and no benefit of the doubt for the other. Got it.
Dude, Trump and Giuliani admitted that they told the UKr President to look for dirt on a rival. There doesn't need to be a quid pro quo.
Is this ok with you? Yes or no?
This is exactly what I'm talking about...."we'll see. Be patient".
In the context of their entire (supposedly classified) conversation, I'm ok with it.a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:47 pmThis is exactly what I'm talking about...."we'll see. Be patient".
I'm not talking about either the whistleblower, or arms to the Ukraine, or Nancy Pelosi. For those things? Yep, it remains to be seen.
But that's not what I'm asking you.
What I'm asking you is: Your President, and his personal lawyer, told you that he asked a foreign leader to investigate a political rival and his son during a campaign.
Are you ok with that, or not? It's a simple question.
First of all, that's not a verbatim transcript, even if Trump's crew didn't scrub it.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:01 pmIn the context of their entire conversation, I'm ok with it.
Did you read the entire conversation ? There was a back & forth in which Zelensky said he was anxious to co-operate in the investigations.
Zelensky just confirmed in their press conf that he was not pressured, even though he didn't want to get dragged into our relection politics.
As I posted in the other thread :a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:09 pmFirst of all, that's not a verbatim transcript, even if Trump's crew didn't scrub it.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:01 pmIn the context of their entire conversation, I'm ok with it.
Did you read the entire conversation ? There was a back & forth in which Zelensky said he was anxious to co-operate in the investigations.
Zelensky just confirmed in their press conf that he was not pressured, even though he didn't want to get dragged into our relection politics.
Second of all, this means you think it is ok for Pelosi and others to call every leader in the world, and ask them to investigate Trump, and withhold aid or favors if they don't come through....only do it sneakily so there's no iron clad proof she did that. Which is veeery easy to do, obviously.
Not only is that disgusting and unethical, it's illegal. You can't involve foreign governments in campaigns. It's made all the worse because Trump's lawyer admitted to doing it, too. Giuliani isn't a Federal employee, and can't possibly pretend this was simply diplomatic work.
Third of all, I appreciate your honesty, but boy, we have a veeeeery different moral foundation. That's been the biggest surprise with you and everything Trump.
If I had known this is how you think, our interactions during the 8 years of Obama would have been entirely different.
It's the IC's official summary of the call. An amalgam of several note taking officials.No need for Pelosi to call. The DNC's law firm has Fusion GPS on speed dial.
They're a proven provider of top notch oppo.