Tewaaraton Award 2024

[faircornell]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Between changes in equipment and rules, it's really difficult to compare between eras. However, back to back NCAA Championships are indisputable with respect to greatness.

[Finster]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Shoulda woulda coulda beat Georgetown at home. Didn’t. So not part of ‘the greatest teams ever’ conversation.

[gymman1031]

What are Matt Brandau's current chances? Could his team not making the postseason work against him?

[LaxPundit07]

What are Matt Brandau's current chances? Could his team not making the postseason work against him?

0%. Yes.

This is going to either Kavanagh or Liam E. And it seems likely to be Kavanagh. Unlike the Heisman, the Tewey actually waits out the playoffs to see which player also has an impact on their team’s success as well (not just racking up big numbers for a team going nowhere- ala Lamar Jackson at Louisville).

[Matnum PI]

i won't flinch if it's given to Shellenberger.

[DocBarrister]

i won't flinch if it's given to Shellenberger.

Certainly worthy, but after ND’s back-to-back titles, would be (and it’s strange to say this) a major upset.

I kinda think voters view the Ensign C. Markland Kelly, Jr. award like the Cy Young for pitchers … goalies are specialists who get the Kelly award, while the Tewaraaton goes to the best offensive player, preferably on the national championship team. Sure, a goalie won the women’s Tewaaraton, but I’m skeptical Liam will get it.

All the finalists are certainly deserving.

DocBarrister

[VoiceofReason]

i won't flinch if it's given to Shellenberger.

Absolutely nothing but respect for Shelly's skillset....

But on paper; I just don't see the argument at this point!

When he was +10 points over Kavanagh and still in the hunt for the title; I regarded him as a serious contender...

But with hindsight being 20/20 and all imput accounted for...

What you are left with is Shellenberger with 84 points (having played one more game) vs. 80 for Kavanagh...

So considering Kav averaged 4.6 for his career...Let's call the point totals a wash!!

Now look at the team success...One lost 6 games (including getting swept by the guy he is chasing) vs. winning a national title!!

CS may be the more gifted player naturally; but he was not the better player this season when you factor in every possible angle!

[DocBarrister]

i won't flinch if it's given to Shellenberger.

Absolutely nothing but respect for Shelly's skillset....

But on paper; I just don't see the argument at this point!

When he was +10 points over Kavanagh and still in the hunt for the title; I regarded him as a serious contender...

But with hindsight being 20/20 and all imput accounted for...

What you are left with is Shellenberger with 84 points (having played one more game) vs. 80 for Kavanagh...

So considering Kav averaged 4.6 for his career...Let's call the point totals a wash!!

Now look at the team success...One lost 6 games (including getting swept by the guy he is chasing) vs. winning a national title!!

CS may be the more gifted player naturally; but he was not the better player this season when you factor in every possible angle!

Both are great players, but let’s be honest here … PK is just a lot more fun to watch.

DocBarrister

[BigTurn]

i won't flinch if it's given to Shellenberger.

Absolutely nothing but respect for Shelly's skillset....

But on paper; I just don't see the argument at this point!

When he was +10 points over Kavanagh and still in the hunt for the title; I regarded him as a serious contender...

But with hindsight being 20/20 and all imput accounted for...

What you are left with is Shellenberger with 84 points (having played one more game) vs. 80 for Kavanagh...

So considering Kav averaged 4.6 for his career...Let's call the point totals a wash!!

Now look at the team success...One lost 6 games (including getting swept by the guy he is chasing) vs. winning a national title!!

CS may be the more gifted player naturally; but he was not the better player this season when you factor in every possible angle!

Both are great players, but let’s be honest here … PK is just a lot more fun to watch.

DocBarrister

Shelly is phenomenal but I don’t think he brings the intangibles that kav does on gb’s / riding. This doesn’t factor in of course, but Kav has also had some just jaw dropping goals over the years. The creativity is impressive.

[Laxter]

i won't flinch if it's given to Shellenberger.

Absolutely nothing but respect for Shelly's skillset....

But on paper; I just don't see the argument at this point!

When he was +10 points over Kavanagh and still in the hunt for the title; I regarded him as a serious contender...

But with hindsight being 20/20 and all imput accounted for...

What you are left with is Shellenberger with 84 points (having played one more game) vs. 80 for Kavanagh...

So considering Kav averaged 4.6 for his career...Let's call the point totals a wash!!

Now look at the team success...One lost 6 games (including getting swept by the guy he is chasing) vs. winning a national title!!

CS may be the more gifted player naturally; but he was not the better player this season when you factor in every possible angle!

Both are great players, but let’s be honest here … PK is just a lot more fun to watch.

DocBarrister

Shelly is phenomenal but I don’t think he brings the intangibles that kav does on gb’s / riding. This doesn’t factor in of course, but Kav has also had some just jaw dropping goals over the years. The creativity is impressive.

Disagree. Also think he’s a cleaner player. Not many cheap shots on his resume. The Hop game was the feistiest I have ever seen him. I think Entenmann will win it.

[BigTurn]

i won't flinch if it's given to Shellenberger.

Absolutely nothing but respect for Shelly's skillset....

But on paper; I just don't see the argument at this point!

When he was +10 points over Kavanagh and still in the hunt for the title; I regarded him as a serious contender...

But with hindsight being 20/20 and all imput accounted for...

What you are left with is Shellenberger with 84 points (having played one more game) vs. 80 for Kavanagh...

So considering Kav averaged 4.6 for his career...Let's call the point totals a wash!!

Now look at the team success...One lost 6 games (including getting swept by the guy he is chasing) vs. winning a national title!!

CS may be the more gifted player naturally; but he was not the better player this season when you factor in every possible angle!

Both are great players, but let’s be honest here … PK is just a lot more fun to watch.

DocBarrister

Shelly is phenomenal but I don’t think he brings the intangibles that kav does on gb’s / riding. This doesn’t factor in of course, but Kav has also had some just jaw dropping goals over the years. The creativity is impressive.

Disagree. Also think he’s a cleaner player. Not many cheap shots on his resume. The Hop game was the feistiest I have ever seen him. I think Entenmann will win it.

You can disagree but it’s not really up for debate. Pat has 161 career groundballs to Shelly’s 109 (35 v 24 respectively this year), and Shelly played 6 extra games. Pat has 84 turnovers to Shelly’s 107 (25 v 42 respectively this year). And then again, Pat also only put up 4 less points in one less game played this year. I don’t have CTO stats, but you know damn well PK led there also.

[NeOhLaxFan]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Shoulda woulda coulda beat Georgetown at home. Didn’t. So not part of ‘the greatest teams ever’ conversation.

ND was only one of two programs in the history of college lacrosse to win a natty with 1 or fewer losses. So yes indeed they’re right up there in greatest ever conversation. And the way they beat Top 10 teams this year with ease and giving those teams their worst loss of the season says a lot. Just bc your hatred towards the Irish runs deep, don’t throw out judgement before you know the facts.

[Laxter]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Shoulda woulda coulda beat Georgetown at home. Didn’t. So not part of ‘the greatest teams ever’ conversation.

ND was only one of two programs in the history of college lacrosse to win a natty with 1 or fewer losses.

Wait … what? There are three undefeated champions I can think of off the top of my head.

[faircornell]

The real genius of the Tewaaraton Foundation has been its ability to make its award relevant in a very short period of time. The media has assisted with this, but the Tewaaraton award has eclipsed the USILA awards in the popular sports media. Part of this has been the committee's ability to make interesting choices. Examples of this might be the dual award to the Thompson brothers, or the award going to Peter Baum as a non-hotbed player who was the first DI player to achieve 100 points in a season (I don't recall the exact number). Typically, the award has recognised play in the NCAA tournament, along with regular season play. I don't think that this is specifically stated in the selection criteria.

Given the need for relevance and notoriety, I really can't imagine that it would not go to a player on a back-to-back NCAA Championship Team. It would seem that would forfeit too much media exposure and "limelight" for the award not to do this. Personally, I think that Liam Entenmann might fit the "interesting narrative" continuum, as well as an "inclusion" narrative being a defensive player, and the first goalie to win. However, Kavanagh has a dynamic personality and profile, and has the traditional point scoring profile.

[Mr3Putt]

Can you watch the presentation?

[Farfromgeneva]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Shoulda woulda coulda beat Georgetown at home. Didn’t. So not part of ‘the greatest teams ever’ conversation.

ND was only one of two programs in the history of college lacrosse to win a natty with 1 or fewer losses.

Wait … what? There are three undefeated champions I can think of off the top of my head.

He meant to be on the women’s thread

[Laxter]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Shoulda woulda coulda beat Georgetown at home. Didn’t. So not part of ‘the greatest teams ever’ conversation.

ND was only one of two programs in the history of college lacrosse to win a natty with 1 or fewer losses.

Wait … what? There are three undefeated champions I can think of off the top of my head.

He meant to be on the women’s thread

Kind of makes his “know your facts” jab a little ironic.

[Gobigred]

ND was only one of two programs in the history of college lacrosse to win a natty with 1 or fewer losses.

The "natty" has been won 27 times by teams "with 1 or fewer losses."

[Finster]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Shoulda woulda coulda beat Georgetown at home. Didn’t. So not part of ‘the greatest teams ever’ conversation.

ND was only one of two programs in the history of college lacrosse to win a natty with 1 or fewer losses.

Wait … what? There are three undefeated champions I can think of off the top of my head.

He meant to be on the women’s thread

Kinds of makes his “know your facts.” jab a little ironic.

He’s from Northeast Ohio; Cleveland State is his measuring stick. And indeed, Notre Dame crushed the Vikings 25-3.

On the other hand, this ‘historic’ team also beat:

Ohio State by 3
Syracuse by 2
Duke by 3
Cornell by 1
And UVA by 2

Oh, they also LOST to #9 Georgetown.

And there are countless NCAA D1 winners who had 1 or fewer losses. See BigRed’s post.

Historic my arse.

[BigTurn]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Shoulda woulda coulda beat Georgetown at home. Didn’t. So not part of ‘the greatest teams ever’ conversation.

ND was only one of two programs in the history of college lacrosse to win a natty with 1 or fewer losses.

Wait … what? There are three undefeated champions I can think of off the top of my head.

He meant to be on the women’s thread

Kinds of makes his “know your facts.” jab a little ironic.

He’s from Northeast Ohio; Cleveland State is his measuring stick. And indeed, Notre Dame crushed the Vikings 25-3.

On the other hand, this ‘historic’ team also beat:

Ohio State by 3
Syracuse by 2
Duke by 3
Cornell by 1
And UVA by 2

Oh, they also LOST to #9 Georgetown.

And there are countless NCAA D1 winners who had 1 or fewer losses. See BigRed’s post.

Historic my arse.

Don’t forget about when they beat Duke by 10, UVA by 9, and then assaulted that Georgetown team in the tourney. This is without question a top 5 team of all time. Your clear disdain for the program is clouding your judgement, as it has all year.