Trump's Russian Collusion

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6ftstick
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by 6ftstick »

foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:19 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 pm
tech37 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 am https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40493.html
A prescient article...
Prescient indeed. Here's the plot line for the sequel :
...the real subversion of justice was committed by the Obama administration’s DoJ, FBI, and intelligence agencies, both in their investigations of Trump and in whitewashing the email case against Hillary Clinton. Attorney General William Barr is already looking into those charges, as are DoJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz and U.S. Attorneys John Durham and John Huber. The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

These investigations could burgeon into a catastrophic scandal, involving not only leaking, lying, and illicit spying but possibly collusion by U.S. government agencies to affect the outcome of an election. We don’t know that yet, and we don’t know the role the Obama White House played, but we need to know.
You want safeguards against the abuse of FISA ? Hold the abusers accountable.
...same with the leakers of classified info.
How would the writer know that?
While you weren't looking three different investigations have been opened in the DOJ and FBI.

And some journalists have actually acted like reporters instead of just stenographers for the democrats.
6ftstick
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by 6ftstick »

a fan wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:26 am
6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:22 am Don't put words in my mouth.
You didn't just call Mueller an empty shirt? You did. And below, you do it again.

So tell me: why did Rosenstein appoint him? Take your time. You're telling me that a Dem collusion was put into motion by a top Republican hand picked by Trump himself. You're not making any sense.
6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:22 am Muellers reputation gave cover to the real investigators. 19 Hillary Clinton supporters. Colluding with the MSM to bring Trump to his knees and undo the 2016 election.
Again, then why did Rosenstein appoint him? It goes back to Republican decision making in every case. You can't dance your way out of this.
You think this is about R's and D's? thought you were more "woke" than that.
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old salt
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by old salt »

foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:19 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 pm
tech37 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 am https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40493.html
A prescient article...
Prescient indeed. Here's the plot line for the sequel :
...the real subversion of justice was committed by the Obama administration’s DoJ, FBI, and intelligence agencies, both in their investigations of Trump and in whitewashing the email case against Hillary Clinton. Attorney General William Barr is already looking into those charges, as are DoJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz and U.S. Attorneys John Durham and John Huber. The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

These investigations could burgeon into a catastrophic scandal, involving not only leaking, lying, and illicit spying but possibly collusion by U.S. government agencies to affect the outcome of an election. We don’t know that yet, and we don’t know the role the Obama White House played, but we need to know.
You want safeguards against the abuse of FISA ? Hold the abusers accountable.
...same with the leakers of classified info.
How would the writer know that?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fisa ... rveillance

President Trump allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form
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dislaxxic
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Location: Moving to Montana Soon...

Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by dislaxxic »

Whoever leaked Judge Collyer's report needs to be drawn and quartered on the Mall in DC...according old Salty's version of justice...if that is actually real news...

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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old salt
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by old salt »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:57 pm Whoever leaked Judge Collyer's report needs to be drawn and quartered on the Mall in DC...according old Salty's version of justice...if that is actually real news...
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fisa ... rveillance

President Trump allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form
foreverlax
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by foreverlax »

old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:39 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:19 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 pm
tech37 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 am https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40493.html
A prescient article...
Prescient indeed. Here's the plot line for the sequel :
...the real subversion of justice was committed by the Obama administration’s DoJ, FBI, and intelligence agencies, both in their investigations of Trump and in whitewashing the email case against Hillary Clinton. Attorney General William Barr is already looking into those charges, as are DoJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz and U.S. Attorneys John Durham and John Huber. The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

These investigations could burgeon into a catastrophic scandal, involving not only leaking, lying, and illicit spying but possibly collusion by U.S. government agencies to affect the outcome of an election. We don’t know that yet, and we don’t know the role the Obama White House played, but we need to know.
You want safeguards against the abuse of FISA ? Hold the abusers accountable.
...same with the leakers of classified info.
How would the writer know that?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fisa ... rveillance

President Trump allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form
Not sure how this supports your point in red.
"Before 2018, the Court had never received a request from Congress for documents related to any specific FISA application. Thus, your requests — and others I have recently received from Congress — present novel and significant questions," Collyer wrote in her letter to Nunes.
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old salt
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by old salt »

foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:04 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:39 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:19 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 pm
tech37 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 am https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40493.html
A prescient article...
Prescient indeed. Here's the plot line for the sequel :
...the real subversion of justice was committed by the Obama administration’s DoJ, FBI, and intelligence agencies, both in their investigations of Trump and in whitewashing the email case against Hillary Clinton. Attorney General William Barr is already looking into those charges, as are DoJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz and U.S. Attorneys John Durham and John Huber. The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

These investigations could burgeon into a catastrophic scandal, involving not only leaking, lying, and illicit spying but possibly collusion by U.S. government agencies to affect the outcome of an election. We don’t know that yet, and we don’t know the role the Obama White House played, but we need to know.
You want safeguards against the abuse of FISA ? Hold the abusers accountable.
...same with the leakers of classified info.
How would the writer know that?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fisa ... rveillance

President Trump allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form
Not sure how this supports your point in red.
"Before 2018, the Court had never received a request from Congress for documents related to any specific FISA application. Thus, your requests — and others I have recently received from Congress — present novel and significant questions," Collyer wrote in her letter to Nunes.
That's what she wrote to Nunes, saying she was forwarding her report to DoJ.
Trump subsequently allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form.
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old salt
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by old salt »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:57 pm Whoever leaked Judge Collyer's report needs to be drawn and quartered on the Mall in DC...according old Salty's version of justice...if that is actually real news...
.:mrgreen:. PottyMouthMarcy can analyze this :
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40429.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40226.html
foreverlax
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by foreverlax »

old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:09 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:04 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:39 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:19 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 pm
tech37 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 am https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40493.html
A prescient article...
Prescient indeed. Here's the plot line for the sequel :
...the real subversion of justice was committed by the Obama administration’s DoJ, FBI, and intelligence agencies, both in their investigations of Trump and in whitewashing the email case against Hillary Clinton. Attorney General William Barr is already looking into those charges, as are DoJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz and U.S. Attorneys John Durham and John Huber. The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

These investigations could burgeon into a catastrophic scandal, involving not only leaking, lying, and illicit spying but possibly collusion by U.S. government agencies to affect the outcome of an election. We don’t know that yet, and we don’t know the role the Obama White House played, but we need to know.
You want safeguards against the abuse of FISA ? Hold the abusers accountable.
...same with the leakers of classified info.
How would the writer know that?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fisa ... rveillance

President Trump allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form
Not sure how this supports your point in red.
"Before 2018, the Court had never received a request from Congress for documents related to any specific FISA application. Thus, your requests — and others I have recently received from Congress — present novel and significant questions," Collyer wrote in her letter to Nunes.
That's what she wrote to Nunes, saying she was forwarding her report to DoJ.
Trump subsequently allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form.
How come we can't read it? Not on line?
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old salt
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by old salt »

foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:21 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:09 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:04 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:39 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:19 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 pm
tech37 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 am https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40493.html
A prescient article...
Prescient indeed. Here's the plot line for the sequel :
...the real subversion of justice was committed by the Obama administration’s DoJ, FBI, and intelligence agencies, both in their investigations of Trump and in whitewashing the email case against Hillary Clinton. Attorney General William Barr is already looking into those charges, as are DoJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz and U.S. Attorneys John Durham and John Huber. The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

These investigations could burgeon into a catastrophic scandal, involving not only leaking, lying, and illicit spying but possibly collusion by U.S. government agencies to affect the outcome of an election. We don’t know that yet, and we don’t know the role the Obama White House played, but we need to know.
You want safeguards against the abuse of FISA ? Hold the abusers accountable.
...same with the leakers of classified info.
How would the writer know that?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fisa ... rveillance

President Trump allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form
Not sure how this supports your point in red.
"Before 2018, the Court had never received a request from Congress for documents related to any specific FISA application. Thus, your requests — and others I have recently received from Congress — present novel and significant questions," Collyer wrote in her letter to Nunes.
That's what she wrote to Nunes, saying she was forwarding her report to DoJ.
Trump subsequently allowed the release of the report in it's unredacted form.
How come we can't read it? Not on line?
Maybe DoJ has not released it yet, possibly waiting for the IG or Durham's reports, or we don't know where to look.
That does not make the fact that it exists, classified information.
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HooDat
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by HooDat »

ggait wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:14 am
Didn't Teddy K. go to UVA Law school?...hmmmmmmm, I wonder
So did Bobby. So did Jerry Falwell, Jr. and Laura Ingraham. So did U.S. Senators Corwyn (R-TX), King (I-ME), Nelson (D-FL), Allen (R-VA), John Warner (D-VA), Mark Warner (D-VA), and Whitehouse (D-RI). Justice Scalia taught there,

So was there a point you were trying to make 3R? Or were you just being a troll/jerk?

Cheers.
his point was that Teddy got the boot for cheating!
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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HooDat
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by HooDat »

6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:22 am
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:09 am
6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:18 am If you watched any of that fiasco yesterday and still think Mueller had anything to do with the investigation or the report you've lost your mind.
Doubling down, are we? So you're telling me that you think Rosenstein intentionally hand picked an empty shirt to go after Trump?

Care to share why you think Trump's own guy would do that?
Don't put words in my mouth.

Muellers reputation gave cover to the real investigators. 19 Hillary Clinton supporters. Colluding with the MSM to bring Trump to his knees and undo the 2016 election.
If you believe that Mueller didn't know the answer to every single question put to him, I have some beachfront property in Kansas I want to sell you. He didn't want to answer and played dumb and/or responded "I can't answer that" all day long.....
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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old salt
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by old salt »

Nicolle Wallace: Source says William Barr is 'nervous about being attacked' during Mueller hearing

.:lol:.
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old salt
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by old salt »

Coming attractions. .:lol:.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... d=22670555

Republican South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham said Tuesday that his “deep dive” into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation would include testimony from former Trump campaign associate George Papadopoulos, whose interactions with the mysterious Joseph Mifsud allegedly led to the FBI opening an inquiry into Trump in July 2016.

Papadopoulos was swept up in special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, and he ultimately pleaded guilty about lying to investigators.

Graham, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said his committee “will be looking at the counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign.”

Graham said he would wait until the completion of the investigation by Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz into possible abuse of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
foreverlax
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by foreverlax »

HooDat wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:45 pm
6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:22 am
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:09 am
6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:18 am If you watched any of that fiasco yesterday and still think Mueller had anything to do with the investigation or the report you've lost your mind.
Doubling down, are we? So you're telling me that you think Rosenstein intentionally hand picked an empty shirt to go after Trump?

Care to share why you think Trump's own guy would do that?
Don't put words in my mouth.

Muellers reputation gave cover to the real investigators. 19 Hillary Clinton supporters. Colluding with the MSM to bring Trump to his knees and undo the 2016 election.
If you believe that Mueller didn't know the answer to every single question put to him, I have some beachfront property in Kansas I want to sell you. He didn't want to answer and played dumb and/or responded "I can't answer that" all day long.....
Completely agree. You only saw his back go up a hand full of times, the rest was role play. Asking to have the question repeated is a classic sales technique...gives you some time to actually think, plus the question is often buried deep in b.s.. Not reading a word from the report ensures he had complete control over what he said.

Yea, he is getting older, maybe even breaking down some...he did good enough.

The b.s. about who wrote it did he read blah blah blah....each word was crafted and reviewed by top legal minds.
tech37
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by tech37 »

foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:51 pmThe b.s. about who wrote it did he read blah blah blah....each word was crafted and reviewed by top legal minds.
:shock: That's what we're afraid of
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

CU77 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:35 pm
ggait wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:33 am if Trump was caught on video in the Oval Office taking a bag of $100 bills from MBS (which we'd all have to agree is a slam dunk)
Uh, no, we manifestly do not all agree on that. The hard-core trumpistas (40% of the country) would give it a pass, just like they do everything else Trump does. There would not be a single R vote to impeach in the House, or a single R vote to convict in the Senate.
ggait is not disagreeing with that.

His point was simply that Mueller would have used the exact some language had the crime been that obvious...which it nearly was, given the amount of first hand, corroborated testimony of criminal acts by Trump.

No matter how obvious, Mueller felt constrained to use that language.

On the back and forth about being indicted post Presidency, and LandM's assertion that no jury will convict, I tend to think otherwise, though I'm not so sure it would solely be on the obstruction charges that are pretty darn clear, nor the very clear campaign finance violation with Cohen et al, much as these could and likely will be indicted, assuming he loses in 2020...big problem, though, if he wins as statute of limitations questioned will come into play, meaning that a President truly is above the law as long as his party has control of one part of Congress and they don't abandon him.

My hunch is that if Trump is actually put in jail post Presidency it will be because financial crimes are ultimately revealed, whether with the Russians or the Saudis.

That, indeed, would turn the public perception tide, though it's quite amazing that playing footsie with Putin's attack on our democracy, and lying about a planned business deal needing Kremlin approval, gets a pass from the GOP these days.

Are we so far gone that even with bribery and money laundering and tax fraud, the right wing of the public would stick with him?
Last edited by MDlaxfan76 on Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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CU77
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by CU77 »

Thanks for the clarification Md.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by cradleandshoot »

foreverlax wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:51 pm
HooDat wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:45 pm
6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:22 am
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:09 am
6ftstick wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:18 am If you watched any of that fiasco yesterday and still think Mueller had anything to do with the investigation or the report you've lost your mind.
Doubling down, are we? So you're telling me that you think Rosenstein intentionally hand picked an empty shirt to go after Trump?

Care to share why you think Trump's own guy would do that?
Don't put words in my mouth.

Muellers reputation gave cover to the real investigators. 19 Hillary Clinton supporters. Colluding with the MSM to bring Trump to his knees and undo the 2016 election.
If you believe that Mueller didn't know the answer to every single question put to him, I have some beachfront property in Kansas I want to sell you. He didn't want to answer and played dumb and/or responded "I can't answer that" all day long.....
Completely agree. You only saw his back go up a hand full of times, the rest was role play. Asking to have the question repeated is a classic sales technique...gives you some time to actually think, plus the question is often buried deep in b.s.. Not reading a word from the report ensures he had complete control over what he said.

Yea, he is getting older, maybe even breaking down some...he did good enough.

The b.s. about who wrote it did he read blah blah blah....each word was crafted and reviewed by top legal minds.
If Mueller was sandbagging everyone with his performance he should be nominated for an academy award. I was not aware that Mueller was going into this testimony as a salesman. I thought he was there to testify. Most of the sales techniques and salespeople I work with are consummate BS artists. They will lie and tell you anything to sell you product. Is that what Mueller was trying to do... sell everybody his product? He would probably be better served sticking to the practice of law. He is one lousy salesman if that what he was trying to do.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: The Mueller Report and Impeachment

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

DD-Tech wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:01 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:58 am Yesterday was an embarrassing fiasco for all of America. After the whole sheepdip show was over... nobodies opinion was changed. The only thing I learned yesterday much to the chagrin of MD was that Robert Mueller never read his own report either. The only good thing that happened yesterday and this is selfish on my part my little grandaughter came in to this word at 6 PM last night. :)
Congrats to you grandpa!!!! Cheers! :D
I'll join with that congrats!

The snide remark about Mueller, no so much.

I'm of two minds about his performance.

On the one hand, it was entirely in character. Always hyper-careful to be sure to understand the question before answering it (which sometimes was frustratingly slowly) in order to be sure his answer was directly on point and no more. And scrupulously careful to not violate the strictures imposed by the DOJ (with which he appeared to have no issue) meaning unwilling to characterize his team's findings with regard to criminality of the President in any way substantially expanding upon what was stated in the Report. He was clear as to why he would go no further, but only in terms that those who actually wanted to understand could comprehend. Scrupulously avoiding any impression that he himself was anything but right down the middle.

In character, so if you think his character is actually laudable and essential to the credibility of the Report, a positive, albeit frustrating confirmation of the very careful fellow he is.

On the other hand, Mueller failed to recognize and/or employ the essential elements of communicating in a TV arena. To the extent that his command, character, and conclusions were being impugned, the moment required a forceful communication style. He could have been just as terse with his responses affirming the critical findings of the Report as he was, and stayed tightly within his imposed bounds, but when the GOP flamers spent all their time impugning him and his team, and quite wrongly characterizing the work and conclusions, etc, he allowed them to filibuster any objections to such he clearly had. The heck with the Congressmen claiming that "my time is short" each time he tried to interject that what they were seeing was wrong, Mueller should have said, "Sir, MY time here is short, and I WILL answer your question". And if that meant that he did so once the GOP Congressmen had exhausted their 5 minutes, I'm sure Nadler and Schiff would have given him the courtesy of responding directly to any GOP diatribes. But he did not.

I also think that some of the Dems did him no favors in not being clear, upfront, as to exactly where they were quoting from, which meant that he had to ask for that reference so as to be sure that what they said indeed went no further than how the Report stated their findings. When a questioner gave him the citation upfront, he was able to focus solely on the actual question and had no difficulty coming across quickly to affirm the point being made. But when no citation upfront, it made him appear to not know the words in the Report when he was actually just trying to be sure that nothing was being stated incorrectly.

He was most effective under the clear questioning by Nadler and Schiff, and he showed a little, though not enough emotion, when defending his employee selection process (this called for a more forceful statement each time the process was impugned), and he was quite good when discussing the nature of the threat imposed and the ethical dimensions, not just the legalities (which he was so careful to parse). When speaking about the threat and the ethics about the various actions of the Trump crew detailed in Volume 1, he was powerful.

But perhaps only to those who were bothering to listen.
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