The Nation's Financial Condition

[runrussellrun]

They did all shut Bernie down last Feb (2020) in the primary. The right hasn't done anything remotely close to that.

the wrong, haven't done anything remotely close to that.

Waah

never heard of that radio station, is it any good ?

Peter BROWN......he better slow down.

we HAVE to stop disinformation, on these threads.

Did your kids eat their breakfast, before walking to school ?

Must be really HOT down there.......global warming.

Does the band LIVE....hit home

You own that station

I own the waah station ?

that is DISINFORMATION.......better slow down, pete brown

I don't own any radio stations.....that is a lie.

[Farfromgeneva]

Daughter had 122 pieces of candy. Makes it hard to tax when she keeps an inventory. Knows me too well, then goes “I’m going to shaaare”.

Read this and wondered if the scarcity in the labor or Sonic customers because their food is disgusting.

“We’re scarce, we have higher standards and that gives us more power than we’ve had before.”
— Zella Roberts, a waitress at a Sonic drive-in in Asheville, N.C., who successfully petitioned the company to make it easier for customers to tip their carhops. Flush with options and frustrated after laboring through lockdowns, employers are noting a shift in power that could be long-lasting.

dear diary..........

just tell her a "fear porn" story about how candy has been tainted with covid.......and take it all. Not , really, untrue. You wash all the pieces of candy, or did the jack O latern have an alcohol sprayer to kill the covid virus landing on the candy ?

Remember hand washing and social distancing ?

baseball........packed stadiums.....maskless.

Ramble on. Man if only Covid took the right people.

[MDlaxfan76]

MD you are buying the Rubio type of BS, hook line and sinker. They are doing nothing more than capitalizing on the extremes from the other side...this is political gamesmanship to keep ones job, by any means necessary. So much so, that even Nancy and Chuck refuse to call out the far lefties on their side....why is that? At least HRC give Bernie the Heisman when she ran in hopes it would bury him. Wonder why Heather does not recognize anything negative on her side of the street.....gotta keep us at odds.

I missed this one, so looked to see what it was in reference to:

I dunno if Heather is actually right with that first sentence.

Seems to me that only some Americans are "waking up to the reality that our democracy is on the ropes".

Seems to me that a big portion of America is quite asleep, indeed is actually buying into the outright authoritarianism that Rubio is spouting...now we have "Marxist" corporate and Wall street leaders? "Marxist"???

Yet, the sheep are buying into this, repeating it...no matter how absolutely crazy wrong. A big portion of America is quite willing to buy into the idea that I'd paraphrase as "well, maybe that's an extreme way to say it, but there's truth there too...and we're willing to 'fight' against it"...in other words, the propaganda is working...and by "fight", while some mean politically, others literally mean violence. But it's those who may well mean 'politically' who are actually the weight of the 'mob' that makes the authoritarian successful, as it gives license to any means necessary, with plenty of those willing to be violent encouraged to 'take action'...'direct action'...

These guys are deadly serious in their ambitions.
Power, control, any means necessary.

Not sure what you mean by "Rubio type of BS"; seems to me he's gotten in line with the Trumpist GOP; weak, spineless. Big disappointment.

I do think that our system has been re-engineered over the past couple of decades to reward extremes rather than moderation and compromise. Gerrymandering is an enormous such problem, engineering districts, choosing the voters, forces representatives to only be worried about challenges from their in-party flank rather than winning the general. Our economic system has so heavily and disproportionately rewarded "elite" education and work that is concentrated in large urban/suburban areas that the cultural divide between rural and city has been greatly exacerbated. The no speak filibuster allows Senators to avoid even defending their positions, enabling extreme party discipline to prevent even voting. Our Presidential electoral system's heavy overweight on "state" representation rather than voter representation, enabling strategies that force a choice between low density states and high density states.

And then we have media fragmentation and then social media fragmentation and algorithms that bubble us in the most extreme rhetoric with which we are comfortable and to which we react.

So, we've made moderation and compromise much, much harder. And the danger of an extreme acquiring power much higher...and once achieved, at any cost, an unwillingness to relinquish it...at any cost.

While I can indeed be concerned with the left's proclivity to expect and even demand conformity around progressive views, I simply don't see the acceptance of authoritarian tactics that I'm seeing from the right. Not close.

Sure, in a future iteration, it very well could come from the hard left.

But the imminent danger is from the hard right.

[Farfromgeneva]

MD you are buying the Rubio type of BS, hook line and sinker. They are doing nothing more than capitalizing on the extremes from the other side...this is political gamesmanship to keep ones job, by any means necessary. So much so, that even Nancy and Chuck refuse to call out the far lefties on their side....why is that? At least HRC give Bernie the Heisman when she ran in hopes it would bury him. Wonder why Heather does not recognize anything negative on her side of the street.....gotta keep us at odds.

I missed this one, so looked to see what it was in reference to:

I dunno if Heather is actually right with that first sentence.

Seems to me that only some Americans are "waking up to the reality that our democracy is on the ropes".

Seems to me that a big portion of America is quite asleep, indeed is actually buying into the outright authoritarianism that Rubio is spouting...now we have "Marxist" corporate and Wall street leaders? "Marxist"???

Yet, the sheep are buying into this, repeating it...no matter how absolutely crazy wrong. A big portion of America is quite willing to buy into the idea that I'd paraphrase as "well, maybe that's an extreme way to say it, but there's truth there too...and we're willing to 'fight' against it"...in other words, the propaganda is working...and by "fight", while some mean politically, others literally mean violence. But it's those who may well mean 'politically' who are actually the weight of the 'mob' that makes the authoritarian successful, as it gives license to any means necessary, with plenty of those willing to be violent encouraged to 'take action'...'direct action'...

These guys are deadly serious in their ambitions.
Power, control, any means necessary.

Not sure what you mean by "Rubio type of BS"; seems to me he's gotten in line with the Trumpist GOP; weak, spineless. Big disappointment.

I do think that our system has been re-engineered over the past couple of decades to reward extremes rather than moderation and compromise. Gerrymandering is an enormous such problem, engineering districts, choosing the voters, forces representatives to only be worried about challenges from their in-party flank rather than winning the general. Our economic system has so heavily and disproportionately rewarded "elite" education and work that is concentrated in large urban/suburban areas that the cultural divide between rural and city has been greatly exacerbated. The no speak filibuster allows Senators to avoid even defending their positions, enabling extreme party discipline to prevent even voting. Our Presidential electoral system's heavy overweight on "state" representation rather than voter representation, enabling strategies that force a choice between low density states and high density states.

And then we have media fragmentation and then social media fragmentation and algorithms that bubble us in the most extreme rhetoric with which we are comfortable and to which we react.

So, we've made moderation and compromise much, much harder. And the danger of an extreme acquiring power much higher...and once achieved, at any cost, an unwillingness to relinquish it...at any cost.

While I can indeed be concerned with the left's proclivity to expect and even demand conformity around progressive views, I simply don't see the acceptance of authoritarian tactics that I'm seeing from the right. Not close.

Sure, in a future iteration, it very well could come from the hard left.

But the imminent danger is from the hard right.

Is the bolded true? Doesn't seem like it's any different than it was in 1776 or 1619 or whatever year one 400 AD or any year.

As for the "left" depends on how you view the lack of control/pushback by the Pelosi/Biden wing vis a vis the AOC/Sanders/Warren wing. Acceptance without rejection by the moderate democratic wing and the kabuki theatre of playing along with the extreme right by the other Reps are just varying shades of the same behavior arent they?

[MDlaxfan76]

MD you are buying the Rubio type of BS, hook line and sinker. They are doing nothing more than capitalizing on the extremes from the other side...this is political gamesmanship to keep ones job, by any means necessary. So much so, that even Nancy and Chuck refuse to call out the far lefties on their side....why is that? At least HRC give Bernie the Heisman when she ran in hopes it would bury him. Wonder why Heather does not recognize anything negative on her side of the street.....gotta keep us at odds.

I missed this one, so looked to see what it was in reference to:

I dunno if Heather is actually right with that first sentence.

Seems to me that only some Americans are "waking up to the reality that our democracy is on the ropes".

Seems to me that a big portion of America is quite asleep, indeed is actually buying into the outright authoritarianism that Rubio is spouting...now we have "Marxist" corporate and Wall street leaders? "Marxist"???

Yet, the sheep are buying into this, repeating it...no matter how absolutely crazy wrong. A big portion of America is quite willing to buy into the idea that I'd paraphrase as "well, maybe that's an extreme way to say it, but there's truth there too...and we're willing to 'fight' against it"...in other words, the propaganda is working...and by "fight", while some mean politically, others literally mean violence. But it's those who may well mean 'politically' who are actually the weight of the 'mob' that makes the authoritarian successful, as it gives license to any means necessary, with plenty of those willing to be violent encouraged to 'take action'...'direct action'...

These guys are deadly serious in their ambitions.
Power, control, any means necessary.

Not sure what you mean by "Rubio type of BS"; seems to me he's gotten in line with the Trumpist GOP; weak, spineless. Big disappointment.

I do think that our system has been re-engineered over the past couple of decades to reward extremes rather than moderation and compromise. Gerrymandering is an enormous such problem, engineering districts, choosing the voters, forces representatives to only be worried about challenges from their in-party flank rather than winning the general. Our economic system has so heavily and disproportionately rewarded "elite" education and work that is concentrated in large urban/suburban areas that the cultural divide between rural and city has been greatly exacerbated. The no speak filibuster allows Senators to avoid even defending their positions, enabling extreme party discipline to prevent even voting. Our Presidential electoral system's heavy overweight on "state" representation rather than voter representation, enabling strategies that force a choice between low density states and high density states.

And then we have media fragmentation and then social media fragmentation and algorithms that bubble us in the most extreme rhetoric with which we are comfortable and to which we react.

So, we've made moderation and compromise much, much harder. And the danger of an extreme acquiring power much higher...and once achieved, at any cost, an unwillingness to relinquish it...at any cost.

While I can indeed be concerned with the left's proclivity to expect and even demand conformity around progressive views, I simply don't see the acceptance of authoritarian tactics that I'm seeing from the right. Not close.

Sure, in a future iteration, it very well could come from the hard left.

But the imminent danger is from the hard right.

Is the bolded true? Doesn't seem like it's any different than it was in 1776 or 1619 or whatever year one 400 AD or any year.

As for the "left" depends on how you view the lack of control/pushback by the Pelosi/Biden wing vis a vis the AOC/Sanders/Warren wing. Acceptance without rejection by the moderate democratic wing and the kabuki theatre of playing along with the extreme right by the other Reps are just varying shades of the same behavior arent they?

I may well not understand your points, but will take a swing at it.

On the first, yes, I don't think that we've been in such danger of a failure of democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, since at least the Great Depression and the corresponding height of Jim Crow. And I think actually higher than that era, though it remains to be seen. Certainly the Civil War would be a clear example of the potential failure of democracy to hold, though that was more about a racial authoritarianism than democracy per se.

There was a very real danger in the '30's of an embrace of fascism here in the US. Fortunately that did not prevail, but only because those with such views did not acquire sufficient power, and the country managed not to completely collapse, with the heavy efforts of progressive, social safety net policies. And then we emerged from WWII as the by far strongest economy, largely by dint of not having it destroyed in the war. We then had a series of Presidents, from both parties, who were very much not authoritarians, though McCarthyism and its ilk did need to be beaten back.

The issue with the actual authoritarians, left, right, whatever, is that they are willing to utilize whatever means necessary to acquire power...and once achieved, they then have the capacity to ensure they maintain it, absent total revolt by the people, or an armed coup from within.

So, we very, very much need to not let those extremes with authoritarian instincts and ambitions ever attain such power. We were darn close to that happening in the last few years, but fortunately, the country barely held on...but only because a few Republicans in a few key positions refused to go along. Else the outcome may well have been quite different.

They're being scrubbed out of the GOP now.

[Farfromgeneva]

MD you are buying the Rubio type of BS, hook line and sinker. They are doing nothing more than capitalizing on the extremes from the other side...this is political gamesmanship to keep ones job, by any means necessary. So much so, that even Nancy and Chuck refuse to call out the far lefties on their side....why is that? At least HRC give Bernie the Heisman when she ran in hopes it would bury him. Wonder why Heather does not recognize anything negative on her side of the street.....gotta keep us at odds.

I missed this one, so looked to see what it was in reference to:

I dunno if Heather is actually right with that first sentence.

Seems to me that only some Americans are "waking up to the reality that our democracy is on the ropes".

Seems to me that a big portion of America is quite asleep, indeed is actually buying into the outright authoritarianism that Rubio is spouting...now we have "Marxist" corporate and Wall street leaders? "Marxist"???

Yet, the sheep are buying into this, repeating it...no matter how absolutely crazy wrong. A big portion of America is quite willing to buy into the idea that I'd paraphrase as "well, maybe that's an extreme way to say it, but there's truth there too...and we're willing to 'fight' against it"...in other words, the propaganda is working...and by "fight", while some mean politically, others literally mean violence. But it's those who may well mean 'politically' who are actually the weight of the 'mob' that makes the authoritarian successful, as it gives license to any means necessary, with plenty of those willing to be violent encouraged to 'take action'...'direct action'...

These guys are deadly serious in their ambitions.
Power, control, any means necessary.

Not sure what you mean by "Rubio type of BS"; seems to me he's gotten in line with the Trumpist GOP; weak, spineless. Big disappointment.

I do think that our system has been re-engineered over the past couple of decades to reward extremes rather than moderation and compromise. Gerrymandering is an enormous such problem, engineering districts, choosing the voters, forces representatives to only be worried about challenges from their in-party flank rather than winning the general. Our economic system has so heavily and disproportionately rewarded "elite" education and work that is concentrated in large urban/suburban areas that the cultural divide between rural and city has been greatly exacerbated. The no speak filibuster allows Senators to avoid even defending their positions, enabling extreme party discipline to prevent even voting. Our Presidential electoral system's heavy overweight on "state" representation rather than voter representation, enabling strategies that force a choice between low density states and high density states.

And then we have media fragmentation and then social media fragmentation and algorithms that bubble us in the most extreme rhetoric with which we are comfortable and to which we react.

So, we've made moderation and compromise much, much harder. And the danger of an extreme acquiring power much higher...and once achieved, at any cost, an unwillingness to relinquish it...at any cost.

While I can indeed be concerned with the left's proclivity to expect and even demand conformity around progressive views, I simply don't see the acceptance of authoritarian tactics that I'm seeing from the right. Not close.

Sure, in a future iteration, it very well could come from the hard left.

But the imminent danger is from the hard right.

Is the bolded true? Doesn't seem like it's any different than it was in 1776 or 1619 or whatever year one 400 AD or any year.

As for the "left" depends on how you view the lack of control/pushback by the Pelosi/Biden wing vis a vis the AOC/Sanders/Warren wing. Acceptance without rejection by the moderate democratic wing and the kabuki theatre of playing along with the extreme right by the other Reps are just varying shades of the same behavior arent they?

I may well not understand your points, but will take a swing at it.

On the first, yes, I don't think that we've been in such danger of a failure of democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, since at least the Great Depression and the corresponding height of Jim Crow. And I think actually higher than that era, though it remains to be seen. Certainly the Civil War would be a clear example of the potential failure of democracy to hold, though that was more about a racial authoritarianism than democracy per se.

There was a very real danger in the '30's of an embrace of fascism here in the US. Fortunately that did not prevail, but only because those with such views did not acquire sufficient power, and the country managed not to completely collapse, with the heavy efforts of progressive, social safety net policies. And then we emerged from WWII as the by far strongest economy, largely by dint of not having it destroyed in the war. We then had a series of Presidents, from both parties, who were very much not authoritarians, though McCarthyism and its ilk did need to be beaten back.

The issue with the actual authoritarians, left, right, whatever, is that they are willing to utilize whatever means necessary to acquire power...and once achieved, they then have the capacity to ensure they maintain it, absent total revolt by the people, or an armed coup from within.

So, we very, very much need to not let those extremes with authoritarian instincts and ambitions ever attain such power. We were darn close to that happening in the last few years, but fortunately, the country barely held on...but only because a few Republicans in a few key positions refused to go along. Else the outcome may well have been quite different.

They're being scrubbed out of the GOP now.

Hope this is correct.

When I hear Talib on The Circus saying "people aren't being heard" because they protest and don't get what they want, that strikes me as authoritarian tendencies. Different than what we see from McCarthy's and Grassley's (or Rubio), but allowing the agenda to be driven by people who believe "they aren't heard" if they don't get what they want is pretty similar IMO. Some degree of difference but the tendency appears the same no matter how well intentioned it is. Particularly if you put any credence into the axiom that "power corrupts".

[MDlaxfan76]

MD you are buying the Rubio type of BS, hook line and sinker. They are doing nothing more than capitalizing on the extremes from the other side...this is political gamesmanship to keep ones job, by any means necessary. So much so, that even Nancy and Chuck refuse to call out the far lefties on their side....why is that? At least HRC give Bernie the Heisman when she ran in hopes it would bury him. Wonder why Heather does not recognize anything negative on her side of the street.....gotta keep us at odds.

I missed this one, so looked to see what it was in reference to:

I dunno if Heather is actually right with that first sentence.

Seems to me that only some Americans are "waking up to the reality that our democracy is on the ropes".

Seems to me that a big portion of America is quite asleep, indeed is actually buying into the outright authoritarianism that Rubio is spouting...now we have "Marxist" corporate and Wall street leaders? "Marxist"???

Yet, the sheep are buying into this, repeating it...no matter how absolutely crazy wrong. A big portion of America is quite willing to buy into the idea that I'd paraphrase as "well, maybe that's an extreme way to say it, but there's truth there too...and we're willing to 'fight' against it"...in other words, the propaganda is working...and by "fight", while some mean politically, others literally mean violence. But it's those who may well mean 'politically' who are actually the weight of the 'mob' that makes the authoritarian successful, as it gives license to any means necessary, with plenty of those willing to be violent encouraged to 'take action'...'direct action'...

These guys are deadly serious in their ambitions.
Power, control, any means necessary.

Not sure what you mean by "Rubio type of BS"; seems to me he's gotten in line with the Trumpist GOP; weak, spineless. Big disappointment.

I do think that our system has been re-engineered over the past couple of decades to reward extremes rather than moderation and compromise. Gerrymandering is an enormous such problem, engineering districts, choosing the voters, forces representatives to only be worried about challenges from their in-party flank rather than winning the general. Our economic system has so heavily and disproportionately rewarded "elite" education and work that is concentrated in large urban/suburban areas that the cultural divide between rural and city has been greatly exacerbated. The no speak filibuster allows Senators to avoid even defending their positions, enabling extreme party discipline to prevent even voting. Our Presidential electoral system's heavy overweight on "state" representation rather than voter representation, enabling strategies that force a choice between low density states and high density states.

And then we have media fragmentation and then social media fragmentation and algorithms that bubble us in the most extreme rhetoric with which we are comfortable and to which we react.

So, we've made moderation and compromise much, much harder. And the danger of an extreme acquiring power much higher...and once achieved, at any cost, an unwillingness to relinquish it...at any cost.

While I can indeed be concerned with the left's proclivity to expect and even demand conformity around progressive views, I simply don't see the acceptance of authoritarian tactics that I'm seeing from the right. Not close.

Sure, in a future iteration, it very well could come from the hard left.

But the imminent danger is from the hard right.

Is the bolded true? Doesn't seem like it's any different than it was in 1776 or 1619 or whatever year one 400 AD or any year.

As for the "left" depends on how you view the lack of control/pushback by the Pelosi/Biden wing vis a vis the AOC/Sanders/Warren wing. Acceptance without rejection by the moderate democratic wing and the kabuki theatre of playing along with the extreme right by the other Reps are just varying shades of the same behavior arent they?

I may well not understand your points, but will take a swing at it.

On the first, yes, I don't think that we've been in such danger of a failure of democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, since at least the Great Depression and the corresponding height of Jim Crow. And I think actually higher than that era, though it remains to be seen. Certainly the Civil War would be a clear example of the potential failure of democracy to hold, though that was more about a racial authoritarianism than democracy per se.

There was a very real danger in the '30's of an embrace of fascism here in the US. Fortunately that did not prevail, but only because those with such views did not acquire sufficient power, and the country managed not to completely collapse, with the heavy efforts of progressive, social safety net policies. And then we emerged from WWII as the by far strongest economy, largely by dint of not having it destroyed in the war. We then had a series of Presidents, from both parties, who were very much not authoritarians, though McCarthyism and its ilk did need to be beaten back.

The issue with the actual authoritarians, left, right, whatever, is that they are willing to utilize whatever means necessary to acquire power...and once achieved, they then have the capacity to ensure they maintain it, absent total revolt by the people, or an armed coup from within.

So, we very, very much need to not let those extremes with authoritarian instincts and ambitions ever attain such power. We were darn close to that happening in the last few years, but fortunately, the country barely held on...but only because a few Republicans in a few key positions refused to go along. Else the outcome may well have been quite different.

They're being scrubbed out of the GOP now.

Hope this is correct.

When I hear Talib on The Circus saying "people aren't being heard" because they protest and don't get what they want, that strikes me as authoritarian tendencies. Different than what we see from McCarthy's and Grassley's (or Rubio), but allowing the agenda to be driven by people who believe "they aren't heard" if they don't get what they want is pretty similar IMO. Some degree of difference but the tendency appears the same no matter how well intentioned it is. Particularly if you put any credence into the axiom that "power corrupts".

Sure, and I'm not dismissing the danger of the 'mob' from the left.

I just don't see the willingness to toss the rule of law, norms, and democracy itself out the window by the party leaders and party apparatus on the Dem side.

There could be such at some future point in time, particularly if democracy fails to deliver, is no longer trusted, but I don't see that proposition being propounded by the Dem leadership or the Dem Party apparatus.

By contrast, that's actively the messaging of most of GOP leadership and its party apparatus.

EDIT: I assume you weren't referring to the few good R's who stood in the breach against overturning the election being scrapped out, by "Hope this is correct". It's the "Brad Raffensbergers, etc" who are being scrubbed out.

[Farfromgeneva]

MD you are buying the Rubio type of BS, hook line and sinker. They are doing nothing more than capitalizing on the extremes from the other side...this is political gamesmanship to keep ones job, by any means necessary. So much so, that even Nancy and Chuck refuse to call out the far lefties on their side....why is that? At least HRC give Bernie the Heisman when she ran in hopes it would bury him. Wonder why Heather does not recognize anything negative on her side of the street.....gotta keep us at odds.

I missed this one, so looked to see what it was in reference to:

I dunno if Heather is actually right with that first sentence.

Seems to me that only some Americans are "waking up to the reality that our democracy is on the ropes".

Seems to me that a big portion of America is quite asleep, indeed is actually buying into the outright authoritarianism that Rubio is spouting...now we have "Marxist" corporate and Wall street leaders? "Marxist"???

Yet, the sheep are buying into this, repeating it...no matter how absolutely crazy wrong. A big portion of America is quite willing to buy into the idea that I'd paraphrase as "well, maybe that's an extreme way to say it, but there's truth there too...and we're willing to 'fight' against it"...in other words, the propaganda is working...and by "fight", while some mean politically, others literally mean violence. But it's those who may well mean 'politically' who are actually the weight of the 'mob' that makes the authoritarian successful, as it gives license to any means necessary, with plenty of those willing to be violent encouraged to 'take action'...'direct action'...

These guys are deadly serious in their ambitions.
Power, control, any means necessary.

Not sure what you mean by "Rubio type of BS"; seems to me he's gotten in line with the Trumpist GOP; weak, spineless. Big disappointment.

I do think that our system has been re-engineered over the past couple of decades to reward extremes rather than moderation and compromise. Gerrymandering is an enormous such problem, engineering districts, choosing the voters, forces representatives to only be worried about challenges from their in-party flank rather than winning the general. Our economic system has so heavily and disproportionately rewarded "elite" education and work that is concentrated in large urban/suburban areas that the cultural divide between rural and city has been greatly exacerbated. The no speak filibuster allows Senators to avoid even defending their positions, enabling extreme party discipline to prevent even voting. Our Presidential electoral system's heavy overweight on "state" representation rather than voter representation, enabling strategies that force a choice between low density states and high density states.

And then we have media fragmentation and then social media fragmentation and algorithms that bubble us in the most extreme rhetoric with which we are comfortable and to which we react.

So, we've made moderation and compromise much, much harder. And the danger of an extreme acquiring power much higher...and once achieved, at any cost, an unwillingness to relinquish it...at any cost.

While I can indeed be concerned with the left's proclivity to expect and even demand conformity around progressive views, I simply don't see the acceptance of authoritarian tactics that I'm seeing from the right. Not close.

Sure, in a future iteration, it very well could come from the hard left.

But the imminent danger is from the hard right.

Is the bolded true? Doesn't seem like it's any different than it was in 1776 or 1619 or whatever year one 400 AD or any year.

As for the "left" depends on how you view the lack of control/pushback by the Pelosi/Biden wing vis a vis the AOC/Sanders/Warren wing. Acceptance without rejection by the moderate democratic wing and the kabuki theatre of playing along with the extreme right by the other Reps are just varying shades of the same behavior arent they?

I may well not understand your points, but will take a swing at it.

On the first, yes, I don't think that we've been in such danger of a failure of democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, since at least the Great Depression and the corresponding height of Jim Crow. And I think actually higher than that era, though it remains to be seen. Certainly the Civil War would be a clear example of the potential failure of democracy to hold, though that was more about a racial authoritarianism than democracy per se.

There was a very real danger in the '30's of an embrace of fascism here in the US. Fortunately that did not prevail, but only because those with such views did not acquire sufficient power, and the country managed not to completely collapse, with the heavy efforts of progressive, social safety net policies. And then we emerged from WWII as the by far strongest economy, largely by dint of not having it destroyed in the war. We then had a series of Presidents, from both parties, who were very much not authoritarians, though McCarthyism and its ilk did need to be beaten back.

The issue with the actual authoritarians, left, right, whatever, is that they are willing to utilize whatever means necessary to acquire power...and once achieved, they then have the capacity to ensure they maintain it, absent total revolt by the people, or an armed coup from within.

So, we very, very much need to not let those extremes with authoritarian instincts and ambitions ever attain such power. We were darn close to that happening in the last few years, but fortunately, the country barely held on...but only because a few Republicans in a few key positions refused to go along. Else the outcome may well have been quite different.

They're being scrubbed out of the GOP now.

Hope this is correct.

When I hear Talib on The Circus saying "people aren't being heard" because they protest and don't get what they want, that strikes me as authoritarian tendencies. Different than what we see from McCarthy's and Grassley's (or Rubio), but allowing the agenda to be driven by people who believe "they aren't heard" if they don't get what they want is pretty similar IMO. Some degree of difference but the tendency appears the same no matter how well intentioned it is. Particularly if you put any credence into the axiom that "power corrupts".

Sure, and I'm not dismissing the danger of the 'mob' from the left.

I just don't see the willingness to toss the rule of law, norms, and democracy itself out the window by the party leaders and party apparatus on the Dem side.

There could be such at some future point in time, particularly if democracy fails to deliver, is no longer trusted, but I don't see that proposition being propounded by the Dem leadership or the Dem Party apparatus.

By contrast, that's actively the messaging of most of GOP leadership and its party apparatus.

EDIT: I assume you weren't referring to the few good R's who stood in the breach against overturning the election being scrapped out, by "Hope this is correct".

Given the history of the Dems following suit on the worst, but often effective politically, behaviors of Republican politicians I presume it's only a matter of time...unfortunately (and I worry that they will view "democracy failing to deliver" on their desires as them not trusting it so then throwing it out the window which is what happened with this populist idiot movement within the Republican party)

Bottom line is we should move to a parliamentary system I'm beginning to come back around on after thinking that 20yrs ago then being dissuaded as to the superiority of that (by a black, gay, deadhead republican friend who went to BUs law school and worked for the FEC until he died from excessive drug use catching up to him about ten years ago - he also spent time at St Johns studying the classics in between his time at Hobart, quite the walkign contradiction and yet a sweetheart of a guy and friend)

[Farfromgeneva]

1st Friday of the month so labor and related economic data came out at 8:30

https://www.bls.gov/

[Brooklyn]

1st Friday of the month so labor and related economic data came out at 8:30

https://www.bls.gov/

October jobs report: Payrolls grew by 531,000 as unemployment rate fell to 4.6%
Source: Yahoo! Finance

U.S. employers increased their pace of hiring in October after a sluggish September, with declining COVID-19 infections and demand for workers amid widespread shortages helping bolster labor market activity.

The Labor Department released its October jobs report Friday morning. Here were the main metrics from the report, compared to consensus estimates compiled by Bloomberg:

Non-farm payrolls were expected to show the biggest jump in a single month since July. Though payrolls have grown in every month so far in 2021, the economy remains about 5 million jobs short of its pre-pandemic levels following plunges in employment between March and April of 2020. And the civilian labor force was still down by about 3.1 million individuals compared to February 2020 as of September.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/october- ... 31280.html




Well over half a million jobs as Biden fixes up the great mess created by the incompetent tRump. Despite all, we continue to see criticism from the radical far right and silence from Democrats. Had tRump created all those jobs the right wing would be praising him. Naturally he would be praising himself as well. But we see no such thing from Biden or members of his party.

[Farfromgeneva]

1st Friday of the month so labor and related economic data came out at 8:30

https://www.bls.gov/

October jobs report: Payrolls grew by 531,000 as unemployment rate fell to 4.6%
Source: Yahoo! Finance

U.S. employers increased their pace of hiring in October after a sluggish September, with declining COVID-19 infections and demand for workers amid widespread shortages helping bolster labor market activity.

The Labor Department released its October jobs report Friday morning. Here were the main metrics from the report, compared to consensus estimates compiled by Bloomberg:

Non-farm payrolls were expected to show the biggest jump in a single month since July. Though payrolls have grown in every month so far in 2021, the economy remains about 5 million jobs short of its pre-pandemic levels following plunges in employment between March and April of 2020. And the civilian labor force was still down by about 3.1 million individuals compared to February 2020 as of September.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/october- ... 31280.html




Well over half a million jobs as Biden fixes up the great mess created by the incompetent tRump. Despite all, we continue to see criticism from the radical far right and silence from Democrats. Had tRump created all those jobs the right wing would be praising him. Naturally he would be praising himself as well. But we see no such thing from Biden or members of his party.

Or they are smart enough to know the president has little to no impact on employment, wish everyone understood that.

[Farfromgeneva]

To offset the histrionics

Productivity and Costs, Third Quarter 2021, Preliminary


Transmission of material in this release is embargoed until USDL 21-1929
8:30 a.m. (ET) Thursday, November 4, 2021

Technical information: (202) 691-5606 • [email protected] • www.bls.gov/lpc
Media contact: (202) 691-5902 • [email protected]

PRODUCTIVITY AND COSTS
Third Quarter 2021, Preliminary

Nonfarm business sector labor productivity decreased 5.0 percent in the third quarter of 2021, the
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today, as output increased 1.7 percent and hours worked
increased 7.0 percent. This is the lowest rate of quarterly productivity growth since the second quarter
of 1981, when the measure decreased 5.1 percent. (All quarterly percent changes in this release are
seasonally adjusted annual rates.) From the third quarter of 2020 to the third quarter of 2021, nonfarm
business sector labor productivity decreased 0.5 percent. The four-quarter rate is the lowest rate since
the third quarter of 2011, when the measure also declined 0.5 percent (See table A1.)

Unit labor costs in the nonfarm business sector increased at an annual rate of 8.3 percent in the third
quarter of 2021, reflecting a 2.9-percent increase in hourly compensation and a 5.0-percent decrease in
productivity. Unit labor costs increased 4.8 percent over the last four quarters. (See table A1.) BLS
calculates unit labor costs as the ratio of hourly compensation to labor productivity. Increases in hourly
compensation tend to increase unit labor costs and increases in productivity tend to reduce them.

Labor productivity, or output per hour, is calculated by dividing an index of real output by an index of
hours worked by all persons, including employees, proprietors, and unpaid family workers. The third
quarter of 2021 is the fifth consecutive quarter with increases in both output and hours worked,
following historic declines in those measures in the second quarter of 2020. The output index is now 1.8
percent above the level seen in the fourth quarter of 2019, the last quarter not affected by the COVID-19
pandemic, while the hours worked index remains 1.0 percent below its fourth quarter 2019 level. (See
tables A1 and 2.)

The nonfarm business labor productivity index is 2.9 percent higher in third-quarter 2021 than it was in
fourth-quarter 2019, corresponding to an average annual growth rate of 1.6 percent during the pandemic
period of fourth quarter 2019 through third quarter 2021. This rate is slightly higher than the 1.4-percent
average annual growth rate during the previous business cycle--from 2007 to 2019--but below the long-
term average rate since 1947 of 2.1 percent.

Manufacturing sector labor productivity decreased 1.0 percent in the third quarter of 2021, as output
increased 5.7 percent and hours worked increased 6.7 percent. In the durable manufacturing sector,
productivity increased 1.4 percent, with a 9.9-percent increase in output and an 8.4-percent increase in
hours worked. Nondurable manufacturing sector productivity decreased 2.6 percent, as output (+1.3
percent) grew slower than hours worked (+4.0 percent). Total manufacturing sector productivity
increased 2.4 percent from the same quarter a year ago. (See tables A1, 3, 4, and 5.)

Manufacturing sector output is now 1.1 percent above its level in the fourth quarter of 2019, the last
quarter not affected by the COVID-19 pandemic. Hours worked in manufacturing remain 3.3 percent
below the fourth-quarter 2019 level. The manufacturing labor productivity index is now 4.6 percent
higher than in fourth-quarter 2019, reflecting growth at a 2.6-percent annual rate during the pandemic
period of fourth quarter 2019 through third quarter 2021. This rate is much higher than the 0.2-percent
average annual growth rate during the previous business cycle--from 2007 to 2019--and is just above the
long-term rate of 2.3 percent per year from 1987 to 2020. (See tables A1 and 3.)

Unit labor costs in the total manufacturing sector increased 2.9 percent in the third quarter of 2021,
reflecting a 1.9-percent increase in hourly compensation and a 1.0-percent decrease in productivity.
Manufacturing unit labor costs increased 1.9 percent from the same quarter a year ago. (See tables A1
and 3.)

The concepts, sources, and methods used for the manufacturing output series differ from those used in
the business and nonfarm business output series; these output measures are not directly comparable. See
the Technical Notes for a more detailed explanation.

Revised measures

Revised and previous measures for the second quarter of 2021 are shown in tables A2 and B1, covering
the following major sectors: nonfarm business, business, manufacturing, and nonfinancial corporations.

In the second quarter of 2021, nonfarm business sector productivity was revised up, due primarily to
an upward revision to output, and increased 2.4 percent rather than 2.1 percent as reported September 2.
Unit labor costs increased 1.1 percent, slightly less than previously reported. (See table B1.)

Manufacturing sector productivity rose 8.5 percent in the second quarter; an upward revision of 0.5
percentage point that reflected both a 0.3-percentage point upward revision to output and a 0.2-percentage
point downward revision to hours worked. Durable manufacturing productivity grew 5.7 percent, 1.1
percentage point higher than the previous estimate. Nondurable manufacturing productivity grew 9.8
percent, slightly lower than the prior estimate. Unit labor costs in total manufacturing were revised down
0.5-percentage point and decreased 3.5 percent in the second quarter, reflecting the upward revision to
productivity.

Second-quarter 2021 measures of productivity and costs were revised for the nonfinancial corporate
sector. Productivity decreased 1.8 percent rather than decreasing 4.0 percent as previously reported
due to an upward revision to output; hours worked were not revised. Unit labor costs increased 5.7
percent rather than the preliminary estimate of 8.0 percent. (See table A2.)

Complete annual and quarterly data series can be found on the Productivity and Costs home page:
www.bls.gov/lpc/#data.
______________
The revised Productivity and Costs news release for third-quarter 2021 is scheduled to be released
on Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 8:30 a.m. (ET).




=========================================================================================================================
Table A1. Labor productivity growth and related measures - preliminary third-quarter 2021
(percent change from previous quarter at annual rate and from same quarter a year ago)


Labor Hours Hourly Real hourly Unit labor
Sector Percent change from: productivity Output worked compensation compensation costs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonfarm business Previous quarter -5.0 1.7 7.0 2.9 -3.5 8.3
A year ago -0.5 6.1 6.7 4.3 -1.0 4.8

Business Previous quarter -4.8 1.4 6.5 3.3 -3.1 8.5
A year ago -0.6 5.9 6.6 4.3 -0.9 5.0

Manufacturing Previous quarter -1.0 5.7 6.7 1.9 -4.5 2.9
A Year ago 2.4 6.3 3.8 4.3 -0.9 1.9

Durable Previous quarter 1.4 9.9 8.4 0.8 -5.5 -0.6
manufacturing A year ago 3.2 6.8 3.5 4.9 -0.3 1.7

Nondurable Previous quarter -2.6 1.3 4.0 3.5 -2.9 6.2
manufacturing A year ago 1.3 5.8 4.4 3.3 -1.9 2.0
=========================================================================================================================


=========================================================================================================================
Table A2. Labor productivity growth and related measures - revised and previously published second-quarter 2021
(percent change from previous quarter at annual rate)


Labor Hours Hourly Real hourly Unit labor
Sector productivity Output worked compensation compensation costs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonfinancial Revised -1.8 2.9 4.9 3.8 -4.3 5.7
corporate Previously published -4.0 0.7 4.9 3.7 -4.4 8.0
=========================================================================================================================


=========================================================================================================================
Table B1. Labor productivity growth and related measures - revised and previously published second-quarter 2021
(percent change from previous quarter at annual rate)

Labor Hours Hourly Real hourly Unit labor
Sector productivity Output worked compensation compensation costs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonfarm business Revised 2.4 8.5 5.9 3.5 -4.6 1.1
Previously published 2.1 8.1 6.0 3.4 -4.6 1.3

Business Revised 2.6 8.2 5.4 3.9 -4.2 1.3
Previously published 2.4 7.9 5.4 3.9 -4.2 1.4

Manufacturing Revised 8.5 5.8 -2.5 4.7 -3.5 -3.5
Previously published 8.0 5.5 -2.3 4.7 -3.4 -3.0

Durable Revised 5.7 -0.1 -5.4 5.2 -3.0 -0.4
manufacturing Previously published 4.6 -0.9 -5.2 5.3 -2.9 0.7

Nondurable Revised 9.8 12.6 2.6 4.5 -3.6 -4.8
manufacturing Previously published 10.0 12.9 2.7 4.5 -3.6 -5.0
=========================================================================================================================
Technical notes
Table 1. Business sector: Labor productivity, hourly compensation, unit labor costs, and prices, seasonally adjusted
Table 2. Nonfarm business sector: Labor productivity, hourly compensation, unit labor costs, and prices, seasonally adjusted
Table 3. Manufacturing sector: Labor productivity, hourly compensation, and unit labor costs, seasonally adjusted
Table 4. Durable manufacturing sector: Labor productivity, hourly compensation, and unit labor costs, seasonally adjusted
Table 5. Nondurable manufacturing sector: Labor productivity, hourly compensation, and unit labor costs, seasonally adjusted
Table 6. Nonfinancial corporate sector: Labor productivity, hourly compensation, unit labor costs, unit profits, and prices, seasonally adjusted
Sources and footnotes for tables
HTML version of the entire news release
The PDF version of the news release
News release charts
Supplemental Files Table of Contents
Table of Contents
Last Modified Date: November 04, 2021

[youthathletics]

Nonfarm business sector labor productivity decreased 5.0 percent in the third quarter of 2021, the
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today, as output increased 1.7 percent and hours worked
increased 7.0 percent. This is the lowest rate of quarterly productivity growth since the second quarter
of 1981, when the measure decreased 5.1 percent. (All quarterly percent changes in this release are
seasonally adjusted annual rates.) From the third quarter of 2020 to the third quarter of 2021, nonfarm
business sector labor productivity decreased 0.5 percent. The four-quarter rate is the lowest rate since
the third quarter of 2011, when the measure also declined 0.5 percent (See table A1.)

Unit labor costs in the nonfarm business sector increased at an annual rate of 8.3 percent in the third
quarter of 2021, reflecting a 2.9-percent increase in hourly compensation and a 5.0-percent decrease in
productivity. Unit labor costs increased 4.8 percent over the last four quarters. (See table A1.) BLS
calculates unit labor costs as the ratio of hourly compensation to labor productivity. Increases in hourly
compensation tend to increase unit labor costs and increases in productivity tend to reduce them.

Do you view this as a supply chain issue.....I do and see it daily. Businesses are staffed for their active work and backlog, yet are getting bit by lack of material to perform work.....essentially trying to be as productive as possible and retain their labor force.

[Farfromgeneva]

October Commercial Chapter 11 Filings Increase 19 Percent
November 05, 2021, 07:38 AM
Filed Under: Bankruptcy
Related: American Bankruptcy Institute, Amy Quackenboss, Bankruptcy

The 294 commercial chapter 11 filings recorded in October 2021 represented a 19 percent increase from the 247 commercial chapter 11 filings in September 2021, according to data provided by Epiq. Overall October 2021 business filings increased 4 percent to 1,775 from September’s business total of 1,705. Total bankruptcy filings increased 2 percent, as the 31,477 filings in October 2021 were up from the 30,915 filings recorded in September. The 29,702 consumer filings in October also represented a 2 percent increase from September’s consumer total of 29,210.

“With the expiration of government relief programs, supply shortages and inflationary price increases, families and businesses are contending with a number of economic challenges,” said ABI Executive Director Amy Quackenboss. “Bankruptcy provides struggling companies and consumers with a reliable lifeline when faced with an uncertain financial future.”

Total U.S. bankruptcy filings in October decreased 22 percent from a year ago, as the 31,477 total filings in October 2021 were down from the 40,218 filings registered in October 2020. The 29,702 consumer filings in October 2021 represented a 21 percent decrease from last October’s consumer total of 37,679. Overall commercial filings in October 2021 totaled 1,775, down 30 percent from the 2,539 filings in October 2020. Commercial chapter 11 filings decreased 47 percent, as the 294 filings in October 2021 fell by almost half from the 550 recorded in October 2020.

The average nationwide per capita bankruptcy filing rate in October was 1.33 (total filings per 1,000 per population), a slight decrease from the filing rate of 1.34 during the first nine months of 2021. Average total filings per day in October 2021 were 1,574, a decrease of 18 percent from the 1,915 total daily filings in October 2020. States with the highest per capita filing rates (total filings per 1,000 population) in October 2021 were:

Alabama (3.14)
Nevada (2.69)
Tennessee (2.45)
Indiana (2.24)
Georgia (2.14)
ABI has partnered with Epiq in order to provide the most current bankruptcy filing data for analysts, researchers and members of the news media. Epiq is a leading provider of managed technology for the global legal profession.

[Farfromgeneva]

Nonfarm business sector labor productivity decreased 5.0 percent in the third quarter of 2021, the
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today, as output increased 1.7 percent and hours worked
increased 7.0 percent. This is the lowest rate of quarterly productivity growth since the second quarter
of 1981, when the measure decreased 5.1 percent. (All quarterly percent changes in this release are
seasonally adjusted annual rates.) From the third quarter of 2020 to the third quarter of 2021, nonfarm
business sector labor productivity decreased 0.5 percent. The four-quarter rate is the lowest rate since
the third quarter of 2011, when the measure also declined 0.5 percent (See table A1.)

Unit labor costs in the nonfarm business sector increased at an annual rate of 8.3 percent in the third
quarter of 2021, reflecting a 2.9-percent increase in hourly compensation and a 5.0-percent decrease in
productivity. Unit labor costs increased 4.8 percent over the last four quarters. (See table A1.) BLS
calculates unit labor costs as the ratio of hourly compensation to labor productivity. Increases in hourly
compensation tend to increase unit labor costs and increases in productivity tend to reduce them.

Do you view this as a supply chain issue.....I do and see it daily. Businesses are staffed for their active work and backlog, yet are getting bit by lack of material to perform work.....essentially trying to be as productive as possible and retain their labor force.

Yeah partly that and partly this data we are seeing of labor retiring out due to covid in their late 50s. There's a bit of friction when new people have to be trained or take over hte job functions of others which reduces labor productivity as well. Probably some degree of remote work being less efficient as well (maybe not on this last one, hard to know but I'm seeing and hearing of an increase in calls and meetings that are redundant even relative to typical white collar office work).

[youthathletics]

Nonfarm business sector labor productivity decreased 5.0 percent in the third quarter of 2021, the
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today, as output increased 1.7 percent and hours worked
increased 7.0 percent. This is the lowest rate of quarterly productivity growth since the second quarter
of 1981, when the measure decreased 5.1 percent. (All quarterly percent changes in this release are
seasonally adjusted annual rates.) From the third quarter of 2020 to the third quarter of 2021, nonfarm
business sector labor productivity decreased 0.5 percent. The four-quarter rate is the lowest rate since
the third quarter of 2011, when the measure also declined 0.5 percent (See table A1.)

Unit labor costs in the nonfarm business sector increased at an annual rate of 8.3 percent in the third
quarter of 2021, reflecting a 2.9-percent increase in hourly compensation and a 5.0-percent decrease in
productivity. Unit labor costs increased 4.8 percent over the last four quarters. (See table A1.) BLS
calculates unit labor costs as the ratio of hourly compensation to labor productivity. Increases in hourly
compensation tend to increase unit labor costs and increases in productivity tend to reduce them.

Do you view this as a supply chain issue.....I do and see it daily. Businesses are staffed for their active work and backlog, yet are getting bit by lack of material to perform work.....essentially trying to be as productive as possible and retain their labor force.

Yeah partly that and partly this data we are seeing of labor retiring out due to covid in their late 50s. There's a bit of friction when new people have to be trained or take over hte job functions of others which reduces labor productivity as well. Probably some degree of remote work being less efficient as well (maybe not on this last one, hard to know but I'm seeing and hearing of an increase in calls and meetings that are redundant even relative to typical white collar office work).

I see it in our office.....they (the white collar) are coming up with more and more (what I call) stupid shyt...just things to appear busy, but have no meat on the bone.

[Brooklyn]

Or they are smart enough to know the president has little to no impact on employment, wish everyone understood that.

tRump had no trouble praising himself for economic expansion during his regime. In fact, even CNN praised him:


https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/27/politics ... index.html

[Farfromgeneva]

Got this on in background if anyone sees it and is free until 1 and interested



Impact Finance Center
1,690 followers
40m40 minutes ago
Follow

Hey everyone! Thank you for all your support and interest in our New York State CDFI Impact Investing Institute webinar today. Starting soon! 12 pm ET / 10 am MT. We look forward to virtually seeing you today: https://lnkd.in/euJheXd5

[Farfromgeneva]

Or they are smart enough to know the president has little to no impact on employment, wish everyone understood that.

tRump had no trouble praising himself for economic expansion during his regime. In fact, even CNN praised him:


https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/27/politics ... index.html

Who is your audience when quoting me on this topic? Not me I would hope.

[Farfromgeneva]

Nonfarm business sector labor productivity decreased 5.0 percent in the third quarter of 2021, the
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today, as output increased 1.7 percent and hours worked
increased 7.0 percent. This is the lowest rate of quarterly productivity growth since the second quarter
of 1981, when the measure decreased 5.1 percent. (All quarterly percent changes in this release are
seasonally adjusted annual rates.) From the third quarter of 2020 to the third quarter of 2021, nonfarm
business sector labor productivity decreased 0.5 percent. The four-quarter rate is the lowest rate since
the third quarter of 2011, when the measure also declined 0.5 percent (See table A1.)

Unit labor costs in the nonfarm business sector increased at an annual rate of 8.3 percent in the third
quarter of 2021, reflecting a 2.9-percent increase in hourly compensation and a 5.0-percent decrease in
productivity. Unit labor costs increased 4.8 percent over the last four quarters. (See table A1.) BLS
calculates unit labor costs as the ratio of hourly compensation to labor productivity. Increases in hourly
compensation tend to increase unit labor costs and increases in productivity tend to reduce them.

Do you view this as a supply chain issue.....I do and see it daily. Businesses are staffed for their active work and backlog, yet are getting bit by lack of material to perform work.....essentially trying to be as productive as possible and retain their labor force.

Yeah partly that and partly this data we are seeing of labor retiring out due to covid in their late 50s. There's a bit of friction when new people have to be trained or take over hte job functions of others which reduces labor productivity as well. Probably some degree of remote work being less efficient as well (maybe not on this last one, hard to know but I'm seeing and hearing of an increase in calls and meetings that are redundant even relative to typical white collar office work).

I see it in our office.....they (the white collar) are coming up with more and more (what I call) stupid shyt...just things to appear busy, but have no meat on the bone.

Besides f'ng around on this board, I've had a ton of calls this week where I have to push deliverable work until after the kids are in bed at night. It's silly. And I have my own business.