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Wow Wow and more Wow
That honeymoon didn't last long - while I must admit I am very surprised that Milliman esentially threw Epstein under the bus in the Sun ... he wasn't wrong - 3 for 16 shooting (18%) in prior 2 games - goalies made 6 saves on his shots - he was pressing AND the one unfortunate by-product of the DeSimone renaissance at X is you moved your most highly regarded player to a new role and he has struggled in the last few games. Maybe just maybe the 3 assists were exactly what the coaching staff was looking for - better decisions.

I will say that when you bench a player you really should have an option out there that brings something at least different to the table and Epstein's replacement took 2 shots the entire game - but also let's get off our high horse and not pretend this was some earth shattering event - If the Washington Capitals put Ovi on the 3rd line or the Buccaneers bench you know who - that's publicly embarrassing someone. We're the only 10 people in the world who care about this outside the program.

If PM loses the room and subsequently Epstein for his last 2 years - then I would have to say the move backfired - we'll see

If Milliman was indeed very complimentary towards Keogh in midweek comments - he must have been hurt or broke a big team rule

I would like to bring in the other end of the field for a second - In the 4 losses since the Ohio State game - Hopkins goalies have made 30 saves - the opposing goalies? Fifty friggin Seven saves - avg of 14.25 to 7.5. So that tells you 2 things - first Wells and Shacks' older sister was absolutely correct - Hopkins telegraphs shots through not changing levels AND they have little talent in the realm of outside shooting. Second, it tells you the goalie position was not addressed with the transfer. AND I know there was some extenuating circumstances because Darby was a late insert in the game but when it was 11-10 the defense largely did its job - it produced a shot from a kid who had 1 goal on the year and he took it from distance - it was not an O'Keefe or Chris Gray missile - it was to Darby's left but you have to save that with the game on the line.

flalax22 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:29 am Big Daddy Russell posted the teams record since Epstein arrived in the College Crosse tweet thread. He has since deleted the tweet but it certainly gave me pause to think about Milliman’s decision. I’m not putting that record on Epstein but the reality is it’s ugly and needs to change. We may have to get used to puzzling decisions while this staff turns the ship.

So the record is not hard to calculate 8-8/2-4/2-5 so 12-17 - But I am really hard pressed to figure out why someone would bring that up - especially the COVID year of 2020 he had a significant injury and was a shell of his freshman year - Epstein is the last reason Hopkins is 12-17 over the last 3 seasons. This is where the Pollyanna of delusional Hopkins posters is completely wrong - I'll say it as loud and as plain as I can:
- HOPKINS IS NOT VERY GOOD - THEY HAVE A VERY POORLY CONSTRUCTED OFFENSIVE ROSTER DUE IN LARGE PART TO EARLY RECRUITING - THEY HAVE VIRTUALLY NO TRUE MIDFIELDERS WITH ANY EXPERIENCE AND THEY SHOOT POORLY ESPECIALLY FROM RANGE. WHILE THE DEFENSE HAS SHOWN SOME SIGNS OF LIFE - THAT END OF THE FIELD SUFFERS FROM POOR GOALIE PLAY AND EXPERIMENTATION IN THE DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD (as evidenced by the fact you have been playing Mabbett/Lilly/Shure at SSDM - none of them have ever played a lick of it before I would guess - you are moving Jaronski back and forth netween LSM AND SSDM and your #1 LSM is a guy who hasn't played lacrosse in 3 or so years).

flalax22 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:29 am Big Daddy Russell posted the teams record since Epstein arrived in the College Crosse tweet thread. He has since deleted the tweet but it certainly gave me pause to think about Milliman’s decision. I’m not putting that record on Epstein but the reality is it’s ugly and needs to change. We may have to get used to puzzling decisions while this staff turns the ship.

Is that what Russell meant by pointing out the record since 2018? I thought it was just to highlight the more general mediocrity of the program but if it was about Epstein specifically then file that right alongside 06's inanity about blaming poor results on your only good players. The only reason Hopkins even sniffed the playoffs in 2019 and didn't have a totally embarrassing sub .500 missed-playoffs season was because of #32. His impact was so clear and obvious that his teammates voted him the first sophomore captain since, like, the Ford administration. And then he was hurt in 2020...can't really blame him for anything last year. It's fair to expect more out of him on the offensive end but he's literally one of the last things the staff should be worried about IMO. He can't play goalie, he can't play SSDM, he can't take faceoffs, he can't clear it.

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:09 am If Milliman was indeed very complimentary towards Keogh in midweek comments - he must have been hurt or broke a big team rule

He was in the announced starting lineup and could be seen on the sidelines, in uniform, on the broadcast. So either it was a tweak in pregame warmups and out of an abundance of caution they kept him out or something else weird is going on.

51percentcorn wrote:AND I know there was some extenuating circumstances because Darby was a late insert in the game but when it was 11-10 the defense largely did its job - it produced a shot from a kid who had 1 goal on the year and he took it from distance - it was not an O'Keefe or Chris Gray missile - it was to Darby's left but you have to save that with the game on the line.

That was an absolute backbreaker. Defense did everything right there.

I get that Darby must be showing something in practice but at this stage if we're changing goalies why not at least see what Marcille can do in a game situation? Feel like a broken record. Obviously both this staff and the prior one did not see things that way. But if you're building for the future I think you at least need to give the kid a shot.

Reality check: 90+ % of D1 lax would love to have JHU's problems:
1. By my take every member of team is an AA of some sort in HS if not U19 national team. You have the talent.
2. Your facilities are both legendary and modern.
3. The school is not going to drop the sport.
4. You have a hyper engaged fan base and support network.
5. You are in a growing conference (lacrosse-wise) that will show your brand in growing hotbeds.
6. Your new coach and staff know what they are doing.
7. You have a built-in recruiting network of grads second to none.
8. You will be competitive in the transfer porta6,l if you want to be.
9. And oh BTW, it is a pretty good school.

Let the haters have their fun, your return will be all the more sweeter.

The Milliman quote about Epstein does not appear in my print edition of the Sun.

Dip&Dunk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:11 am Reality check: 90+ % of D1 lax would love to have JHU's problems:
1. By my take every member of team is an AA of some sort in HS if not U19 national team. You have the talent.
2. Your facilities are both legendary and modern.
3. The school is not going to drop the sport.
4. You have a hyper engaged fan base and support network.
5. You are in a growing conference (lacrosse-wise) that will show your brand in growing hotbeds.
6. Your new coach and staff know what they are doing.
7. You have a built-in recruiting network of grads second to none.
8. You will be competitive in the transfer porta6,l if you want to be.
9. And oh BTW, it is a pretty good school.

Let the haters have their fun, your return will be all the more sweeter.

We just lost to the worst team in the BIG on our home field.
How does that happen with all the talent on this team?
Out entire schedule this year is BIG teams.
At least Petro never lost to Michigan and made the playoffs every year but one.
This team has virtually no chance of making the NCAA's this year.
While I was originally hopeful for the new staff, I feel now that the program has taken a step backwards.

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:54 am

Dip&Dunk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:11 am Reality check: 90+ % of D1 lax would love to have JHU's problems:
1. By my take every member of team is an AA of some sort in HS if not U19 national team. You have the talent.
2. Your facilities are both legendary and modern.
3. The school is not going to drop the sport.
4. You have a hyper engaged fan base and support network.
5. You are in a growing conference (lacrosse-wise) that will show your brand in growing hotbeds.
6. Your new coach and staff know what they are doing.
7. You have a built-in recruiting network of grads second to none.
8. You will be competitive in the transfer porta6,l if you want to be.
9. And oh BTW, it is a pretty good school.

Let the haters have their fun, your return will be all the more sweeter.

We just lost to the worst team in the BIG on our home field.
How does that happen with all the talent on this team?
Out entire schedule this year is BIG teams.
At least Petro never lost to Michigan and made the playoffs every year but one.
This team has virtually no chance of making the NCAA's this year.
While I was originally hopeful for the new staff, I feel now that the program has taken a step backwards.

In honor of Easter, this post deserves only one comment: Jesus Christ.

Have some patience. We're 7 games into what will be at minimum a multi-year path. We're still in a pandemic. They have not brought a single recruit in. We've known this was a possibility all along. I'd invite you to go back and read all the posts about how we might finish last in the conference this year. It's a rebuild. Relax.

To answer your question: The reason this can happen with all the talent on the team is because Michigan is also talented. They beat Penn State too. They beat Ohio State in 2019. They beat Notre Dame in 2018! They're not at the level yet where they can win these games consistently but if you think they are just some garbage team completely incapable of beating anyone then you haven't been paying attention. And, sure, it doesn't help when you handicap yourself by benching your best player and not having a goalie who can make the expected saves from 15+ yards out.

I don't like it at all that the Coach just threw his best player under the bus in the newspaper.
The team just hit rock bottom in the BIG and Instead of accepting responsibility and saying," It's my fault. The team wasn't properly prepared etc," he starts calling out his players. NO. That never works.
Benching the kid says it all. That's more than enough motivation.
Milliman has one strike against him coming in the door. He's not a Hopkins alumnus.
We've never had a coach work out for us that wasn't. Sorry, but that's the truth.
Now, this nonsense is not acceptable. It's bad look for the University, the Athletic Department, and the program.
NOT NOT ACCEPTABLE on any level. That's a second BIG strike against him.
The team lost because of the bad decisions of the coaching staff. A coach who can't look himself in the eye and admit his own mistakes isn't worth a dime. Don't see a positive future here right now. Sorry if you don't like that.

I’ll leave the Easter reference alone even we unaffiliated have become a majority last I heard.
The Milliman quote in the print edition does not refer to anyone by name. I wonder if he tried to walk it back or if Ed Lee decided to cut what appeared online.
If my unofficial survey is accurate, the online version reaches more readers than the print one.

Outsider view: the game on Sunday looked like 2 teams trying to figure out next year. Both teams had significant line-up changes, and it looked like both staffs wanted to see how players handled the changes.

Now, I think it's insane to handle Epstein the way he's being handled. He's a legit Top 10 player in the nation. In retrospect, though, moving Desimone to where they moved him is definitely a signal of how Milliman and Grant think about offense. It's been surprising to see basically no box-style influence that you'd think Grant would implement (east-west, wing dodges to the middle) because that's why you'd move Epstein to the wing! Let him use his strength and athleticism to get to the middle. Everything still looks north-south, and there's not the motion/movement that you saw for the past 10 seasons at Homewood. Tough transition.

Won't be surprised to see lots of player attrition once May rolls around.

flalax22 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:29 am Big Daddy Russell posted the teams record since Epstein arrived in the College Crosse tweet thread. He has since deleted the tweet but it certainly gave me pause to think about Milliman’s decision. I’m not putting that record on Epstein but the reality is it’s ugly and needs to change. We may have to get used to puzzling decisions while this staff turns the ship.

I have no idea if the comment was specifically directed toward Epstein or not but there is a reason Petro was canned. While almost all of his firing can be attributed to his actions from ER, in game decisions, etc., there is also room on that bus to indirectly place some of the blame on the players. They just aren't good enough. Plain and simple. Most of those guys have been in the program for several years and the results are the same.

Heck, the team is 1 OT possession from being 3 and 10 over the last 2 seasons.

I don't care that COVID can be blamed for some of the reasons in that every team is dealing with COVID issues. Michigan athletics were shut down for several earlier this year. So while the UM's slow start could be attributed to being 2 and 5 they have clearly regrouped and won 2 out of their last 3 and have played just about everyone tougher than Hopkins has. That should certainly be a concern that Hopkins is getting worse as the year is going on and not better. Certainly offensively they've been awful...defensively only moderately better. Again goaltending is a huge issue for this team. Can't solve that issue and it doesn't look like the answer is on the team) then Hopkins will keep getting the same results.

Wheels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:33 pm

Won't be surprised to see lots of player attrition once May rolls around.

Which is why COVID will absolutely push any type of rebuild to this program back a year. No COVID, there would have been guys leaving last year. There would also be guys that played yesterday that would normally be ineligible. And that is fine. New coaches always bring changes for good and bad. Guys leaving the program this May, no matter who it is, will be unfortunate but part of the rebuilding process. But, COVID delayed that rebuild because some guys are hanging around (and maybe taking up playing time) that should be going to younger guys that will still be here in 3 years.

If PM is still getting these same results in year 3 that he is today, then he likely won't see year 4 and Hopkins will go hire Nads or someone like that. More than likely Baker will be gone because she screwed her one big hire that she needs to hit on.

Wheels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:33 pm Outsider view: the game on Sunday looked like 2 teams trying to figure out next year. Both teams had significant line-up changes, and it looked like both staffs wanted to see how players handled the changes.

Now, I think it's insane to handle Epstein the way he's being handled. He's a legit Top 10 player in the nation. In retrospect, though, moving Desimone to where they moved him is definitely a signal of how Milliman and Grant think about offense. It's been surprising to see basically no box-style influence that you'd think Grant would implement (east-west, wing dodges to the middle) because that's why you'd move Epstein to the wing! Let him use his strength and athleticism to get to the middle. Everything still looks north-south, and there's not the motion/movement that you saw for the past 10 seasons at Homewood. Tough transition.

Won't be surprised to see lots of player attrition once May rolls around.

Agree about the lack of east-west initiation from the wing. Actually, this is exactly what they did with Epstein in the 4th quarter, and it worked. Expect to see more of the same against OSU this week.

"Michigan is talented"-no they are not.
Per Edward Lee via twitter
"Michigan collected only its second road win against a @B1GLacrosse opponent in 16 tries and improved to 5-27 in the conference since 2015"

-From the looks of the Lee tweet to tinney, he might be headed towards a "Milliman rocky first year", "Milliman vs alumni" "Alumni dissapointed in Hopkins wilderness" story
-Program has not posted video since pregame of penn state and did not release video of postgame newsconferences as they did during petro era and earlier this week. Read into that what you will.
-Losing at home to michigan and 2-5 are neve acceptable just like 2-4 and struggling to beat st marys were unacceptable.
-HF16, our coach benched Epstein following Zinns demotion off the first midfield and several others. The coach you're defending is the one taking measures I'm discussing and no I'm not insinuating he's reading my posts.
-how long is covid going to be an excuse?
-Not sure why a coach should be worried about losing a room of 12-17 players. He's got a contract and in the midst of his career, some of them have weeks of their lacrosse career left.

steel_hop wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:59 pm So while the UM's slow start could be attributed to being 2 and 5 they have clearly regrouped and won 2 out of their last 3 and have played just about everyone tougher than Hopkins has.

Come again? They lost 20-9 to Maryland. They were down 5-1 after the 1st quarter and 10-2 at halftime. 15-3 after the 3rd. We were tied with Maryland after 1 and tied still at halftime. Then the 3rd quarter debacle but in no way did Michigan play them tougher.

Same goes for Rutgers. Michigan lost 22-12 in a game they never led once. Rutgers was up 12-7 at halftime and 20-9 after the 3rd. We were beating Rutgers at halftime and were tied to start the 3rd quarter. 4th quarter debacle similar to the 3rd quarter against Maryland but that was a competitive, neck-and-neck game for 50 minutes.

Michigan played OSU better than we did in their first matchup, but their second game against them (lost 14-6) was worse. Like their games against UMD and Rutgers, that one was over at halftime. 8-1.

We'll see how they do the second time against Penn State. But the statement "they have played just about everyone tougher than Hopkins has" is categorically untrue. You don't have to make stuff up to make the argument that we stink.

primitiveskills wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:10 pm Agree about the lack of east-west initiation from the wing. Actually, this is exactly what they did with Epstein in the 4th quarter, and it worked. Expect to see more of the same against OSU this week.

Agreed as well, but the coaches could have told Epstein to do more of that without benching him couldn't they? You know, they could have just...coached. "Hey Joey less severe angle shooting, more trying to draw slides from the wing." "Okay coach." There—problem solved. No need to publicly humiliate your best player.

Wheels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:33 pm Outsider view: the game on Sunday looked like 2 teams trying to figure out next year. Both teams had significant line-up changes, and it looked like both staffs wanted to see how players handled the changes.

Now, I think it's insane to handle Epstein the way he's being handled. He's a legit Top 10 player in the nation.

Last year, he put up ~1 ppg. This year, he's putting up less than 2 ppg.

If you think he's a top 10 player, then I think you just explained why Milliman is doing what he is doing. Not that I agree with going to the press.....

The actual top 10 players in D1 are tripling Epstein's production.

jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:11 pm -HF16, our coach benched Epstein following Zinns demotion off the first midfield and several others. The coach you're defending is the one taking measures I'm discussing and no I'm not insinuating he's reading my posts.

Yes, and it was the dumbest thing he's done all season! Way to go. Your sage advice just helped Michigan beat us.

As far as talent goes: If you're going to make the argument that we should be better based on the talent on the roster, then you can't possibly at the same time argue Michigan isn't also talented. They are bringing in a ton of top ranked guys every year. Maybe it's starting to catch up a little bit. By the metric you're using to say we have talent, Michigan is the same. Just do five seconds of research before you post. Zawada, Boehm, Bonomi, etc—these guys are all IL top 100 players.

Good news is, this could well be a record breaking year for page count.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:27 pm

jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:11 pm -HF16, our coach benched Epstein following Zinns demotion off the first midfield and several others. The coach you're defending is the one taking measures I'm discussing and no I'm not insinuating he's reading my posts.

Yes, and it was the dumbest thing he's done all season! Way to go. Your sage advice just helped Michigan beat us.

As far as talent goes: If you're going to make the argument that we should be better based on the talent on the roster, then you can't possibly at the same time argue Michigan isn't also talented. They are bringing in a ton of top ranked guys every year. Maybe it's starting to catch up a little bit. By the metric you're using to say we have talent, Michigan is the same. Just do five seconds of research before you post. Zawada, Boehm, Bonomi, etc—these guys are all IL top 100 players.

your narrative that everything is going according to plan and that we've just been screwed by corona isn't really what the staff seems to feel as indicated by many of their decisions.

jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:43 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:27 pm

jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:11 pm -HF16, our coach benched Epstein following Zinns demotion off the first midfield and several others. The coach you're defending is the one taking measures I'm discussing and no I'm not insinuating he's reading my posts.

Yes, and it was the dumbest thing he's done all season! Way to go. Your sage advice just helped Michigan beat us.

As far as talent goes: If you're going to make the argument that we should be better based on the talent on the roster, then you can't possibly at the same time argue Michigan isn't also talented. They are bringing in a ton of top ranked guys every year. Maybe it's starting to catch up a little bit. By the metric you're using to say we have talent, Michigan is the same. Just do five seconds of research before you post. Zawada, Boehm, Bonomi, etc—these guys are all IL top 100 players.

your narrative that everything is going according to plan and that we've just been screwed by corona isn't really what the staff seems to feel as indicated by many of their decisions.

Straw man

OK - Hopkins is loaded with talent people - please point all these players out to me - here are facts of all the players that currently produce points on this team - I have purposely left DeSimone out of the discussion because the previous staff felt they were forced to play him in a position for which he was ill suited and his statistics and contributions could have been significantly different

Epstein - 68 goals 36 assists in basically 2 years of play while being hurt for the 2020 season - that's talent - I am not sure I understand or agree with what Milliman did but Epstein WAS pressing the last two games prior to Michigan. I cannot access the Sun article and I am confused by the poster who said he could not find some of the previously attributed comments in the print edition. I would love some clarification

Williams - 89 goals 48 assists in basically 4 years so he's a 22 goal/12 assists per year - I think we all hoped for more - He's struggled with shooting accuracy and some decision making in the past and when he's had better talent around him as in '18 he produced 49 points instead of his average of around 34 - there's some talent there but the production is average at best

Angelus - 10 goals 11 assists - he's is a shifty nice player that is playing out of position - is he an above average talent that would start for UNC/Duke/MD/ND/UVA/Syracuse/Rutgers? I wouldn't think so

Degnon - 21 goals 4 assists - good shooter - would be a nice piece of the puzzle for alot of teams as a second middie that would get even better shots if he were playing with a Sowers/Gray/Rehfuss etc.

Keogh - 18 goals 18 assists over 3 seasons - playing out of position and oft injured - he's not elite talent as a dodging middie - if he had never gotten hurt and played attack the entire time - it would have been better

Baskin 25 goals 6 assists in 4 seasons - he's just not big enough or quick enough to be a middie and teams have figured out the invert with him

Zinn - 12 goals 8 assists - He was supposed to be a next level talent - now we like him as a defensive middie?

Shilling - 7 goals 6 assists

Guys - I am sorry - with the exception of Epstein and Degnon's shooting - Mother Hubbard is scrounging BIG TIME. I think the DeSimone tale is a very cautionary one for rankings as well. When some people felt he was at times second to Matt Moore in that class it's because of what he did as an X attackman. Same with Keogh - if I remember correctly he led Long Island or Nassau County in assists his junior year and was highly recruited BUT his ratings/rankings were as an attackman and at 5'8"/9" and 160 lbs he's going to have alot of trouble dodging from places on the field he never saw as a secondary school player. Same with Baskin and similar for Angelus.