Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

[tech37]

Just kidding a fan. Join the conversation! Just don't suck me into the vortex

Greatly appreciated, tech....but I'd much rather see you cats in person over a drink (as I did with both LaxFi and 2badknees all those years ago).

And no...no more vortexes! That much I promise you. Have a great weekend!


And since I'm here for just this moment-----sad to hear of the loss of life, including our young marines. Hoist one to them as well.

Not to get into it but... that's "vortices" a fan

Have a great weekend yourself

[tech37]

https://freebeacon.com/national-securit ... ithdrawal/

holy sh!t... thanks for posting C&S

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://freebeacon.com/national-securit ... ithdrawal/

holy sh!t... thanks for posting C&S

He’s biased against Biden. He should have been fired.

[a fan]

Not to get into it but... that's "vortices" a fan

I know. Had to study them in brewing school. I was trying to be funny....as usual....no dice.

Cheers, man.

[old salt]

Cheers to 2bk, indeed, Old Salt....and cheers to you and the rest who post here...

Thanks. Cheers.

[old salt]

https://freebeacon.com/national-securit ... ithdrawal/

[DocBarrister]

Rescue missions … NO.

That was never going to happen on any large scale. The evacuees need to come to the United States forces. That was always going to be the case in the closing weeks of the withdrawal.

DocBarrister

Tell that to the Brits & French. They've been doing it from the start.

How do you think our refugees have been getting in the past couple days. We're sending out buses to get them at rallying points.

With rare exceptions, those were conducted with the cooperation and consent of the Taliban.

https://news.yahoo.com/please-let-us-bu ... 40161.html

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... uxbndlbing

Those aren’t “rescue missions” in any kind of military sense.

The Taliban are shutting all of that down.

The United States has evacuated over 100,000 refugees. We’re never going to get everyone out. We were never going to get everyone out.

DocBarrister

The bus pick ups are being done with Taliban approval.

Do you consider this a rescue mission.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021 ... peace-live

If NGO's can rescue & extract that many people, just imagine how many our military could.

Since the Taliban swept into the Afghan capital, countries including the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, France and Germany have all conducted operations outside Kabul airport to retrieve stranded nationals.

Buses rolling through Kabul are one thing … do you really think the Taliban would tolerate U.S. military vehicles and personnel driving through the streets of Kabul?

Have you even asked yourself that question?

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

... that wasn't my question? How many ASF are we taking out now? How many under your plan? Seems to me under your plan, it would have been the entire force.

That is unknowable. Probably just the ASF Commandos who'd be executed if captured. The others would have fought on longer if we were there. The others could still have surrendered after we left, if they did not want to resist. When an Army starts to come apart, it is not predictable.

You’re correct at least on that one point: “When an Army starts to come apart, it is not predictable.”

Whatever plans President Biden had made, he would have had to change those plans.

Our exit was never going to be orderly and predictable.

DocBarrister

...& by vacating Bagram (& forcing our NATO allies to vacate the air bases they controlled) before the final days, we hastened the collapse of the Afghan govt & the ASF, reduced our options to adapt & forced our retreat through a narrow killing field.

We could have had a full division and a full air wing at Bagram and that would not have prevented the fall of Kabul if we weren’t going to fight on the ground with the Afghan Security Forces.

The AFS wasn’t going to die for the Ghani government when they weren’t even being properly fed, armed, or paid. If U.S. forces were fighting on the ground with them? Sure, the ASF would probably have fought.

But is that what you wanted? U.S. forces continuing a war that should have ended long ago?

DocBarrister

So you think Biden & his propeller heads planned this, expecting the Afghan govt & the ASF to implode before we could get out ?

...& a full division & air wing was what it would have taken ? What would a full division have done if they were not going to fight on the ground ?

You do know our ground combat ops ended in 2014 don't you ? Remember Obama taking credit for it ? What do you think our forces have been doing since 2014 ?

Really?

We have been sending in ground troops to “shore up” Afghan forces … encouraging them to fight … multiple times since 2014.

How about Trump’s ordering of 300 U.S. Marines to Helmand Province in 2017 to provide “emotional support” to the Afghan Security Forces there?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/worl ... goals.html

Air power alone never stopped the Taliban’s advances in recent years. Afghan Security Forces have always needed American ground forces on the ground to encourage them to fight.

It’s not the disappearance of air power that finally did in the Afghan Security Forces … it was the realization that the Americans really were leaving for good.

DocBarrister

[jhu72]

An interesting take on the problem in Afghanistan. The dependency on military contractors.

[old salt]

Buses rolling through Kabul are one thing … do you really think the Taliban would tolerate U.S. military vehicles and personnel driving through the streets of Kabul?

Have you even asked yourself that question?

DocBarrister

You're the one proposing military vehicles. Buses are fine with me (so long as there's a drone &/or little bird overhead). Anything that gets evacuees inside the perimeter without congregating as a target for terrorists. obtw -- the Taliban are on the buses with us.

[old salt]

We have been sending in ground troops to “shore up” Afghan forces … encouraging them to fight … multiple times since 2014.

How about Trump’s ordering of 300 U.S. Marines to Helmand Province in 2017 to provide “emotional support” to the Afghan Security Forces there?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/worl ... goals.html

Air power alone never stopped the Taliban’s advances in recent years. Afghan Security Forces have always needed American ground forces on the ground to encourage them to fight.

It’s not the disappearance of air power that finally did in the Afghan Security Forces … it was the realization that the Americans really were leaving for good.

DocBarrister

Based on your posts, you are clueless about our force composition & what they were doing to support the ASF.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/28/world/op ... index.html
January 1, 2015 - After more than 13 years of combat operations in Afghanistan, the US begins Operation Freedom’s Sentinel (OFS). The new mission conducts counterterrorism operations targeting terrorist groups like al Qaeda and the local ISIS affiliate and also focuses on building up local Afghan security forces to help fight the Taliban. The new US mission will also assist and coordinate with the new NATO-led mission, Resolute Support.

[DocBarrister]

Buses rolling through Kabul are one thing … do you really think the Taliban would tolerate U.S. military vehicles and personnel driving through the streets of Kabul?

Have you even asked yourself that question?

DocBarrister

You're the one proposing military vehicles. Buses are fine with me (so long as there's a drone &/or little bird overhead). Anything that gets evacuees inside the perimeter without congregating as a target for terrorists. obtw -- the Taliban are on the buses with us.

I never proposed military vehicles or “rescue missions” of any kind. If anything, that was you.

I think we should evacuate everyone we can from the airport, and any Americans who need to get out, we should work with the Taliban to get those Americans out.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

We have been sending in ground troops to “shore up” Afghan forces … encouraging them to fight … multiple times since 2014.

How about Trump’s ordering of 300 U.S. Marines to Helmand Province in 2017 to provide “emotional support” to the Afghan Security Forces there?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/worl ... goals.html

Air power alone never stopped the Taliban’s advances in recent years. Afghan Security Forces have always needed American ground forces on the ground to encourage them to fight.

It’s not the disappearance of air power that finally did in the Afghan Security Forces … it was the realization that the Americans really were leaving for good.

DocBarrister

Based on your posts, you are clueless about our force composition & what they were doing to support the ASF.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/28/world/op ... index.html
January 1, 2015 - After more than 13 years of combat operations in Afghanistan, the US begins Operation Freedom’s Sentinel (OFS). The new mission conducts counterterrorism operations targeting terrorist groups like al Qaeda and the local ISIS affiliate and also focuses on building up local Afghan security forces to help fight the Taliban. The new US mission will also assist and coordinate with the new NATO-led mission, Resolute Support.

Even I don’t believe that the U.S. limited itself to “counterterrorism” operations on the ground after 2014.

Do you really believe that?

My link to the NY Times article describes a mission cited in that CNN article … “building up local Afghan security forces to help fight the Taliban.” I just don’t think sending marines to Helmand Province can be described as anything but sending ground troops on a combat mission.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

We have been sending in ground troops to “shore up” Afghan forces … encouraging them to fight … multiple times since 2014.

How about Trump’s ordering of 300 U.S. Marines to Helmand Province in 2017 to provide “emotional support” to the Afghan Security Forces there?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/worl ... goals.html

Air power alone never stopped the Taliban’s advances in recent years. Afghan Security Forces have always needed American ground forces on the ground to encourage them to fight.

It’s not the disappearance of air power that finally did in the Afghan Security Forces … it was the realization that the Americans really were leaving for good.

DocBarrister

Based on your posts, you are clueless about our force composition & what they were doing to support the ASF.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/28/world/op ... index.html
January 1, 2015 - After more than 13 years of combat operations in Afghanistan, the US begins Operation Freedom’s Sentinel (OFS). The new mission conducts counterterrorism operations targeting terrorist groups like al Qaeda and the local ISIS affiliate and also focuses on building up local Afghan security forces to help fight the Taliban. The new US mission will also assist and coordinate with the new NATO-led mission, Resolute Support.

Even I don’t believe that the U.S. limited itself to “counterterrorism” operations on the ground after 2014.

Do you really believe that?

My link to the NY Times article describes a mission cited in that CNN article … “building up local Afghan security forces to help fight the Taliban.” I just don’t think sending marines to Helmand Province can be described as anything but sending ground troops on a combat mission.

DocBarrister

US KIA in Afghanistan :
2015 -- 11
2016 -- 8
2017 -- 11
2018 -- 12
2019 -- 17
2020 -- 4
2021 -- 13

[Kikin]

Are we really citing CNN and NY Times? If the situation was not so terribly sad I would be rolling in laughter. Here is what you should know, whatever those two pieces of "media". ( propaganda arms of the liberal left) tell you, know that that the EXACT opposite is true..This has become a ridiculous conversation.

Here is a little piece of truth for you. BTW, this patriot was immediately relieved of his duty for saying the truth. (Even though he was far from political or full of vitriol). He calmly asks for accountability.

https://www.facebook.com/Americanvoices ... 1864445432

[Typical Lax Dad]

Are we really citing CNN and NY Times? If the situation was not so terribly sad I would be rolling in laughter. Here is what you should know, whatever those two pieces of "media". ( propaganda arms of the liberal left) tell you, know that that the EXACT opposite is true..This has become a ridiculous conversation.

Here is a little piece of truth for you. BTW, this patriot was immediately relieved of his duty for saying the truth. (Even though he was far from political or full of vitriol). He calmly asks for accountability.

https://www.facebook.com/Americanvoices ... 1864445432

Chain of command stuff.

[Kikin]

NO! You are purposely being obtuse. This has NOTHING to do with chain of command. Did you spend 5 minutes to watch it until the end? This man threw away a 17 year career to ask for his leaders to acknowledge they messed this up. He is calling out his leaders for not accepting accountability for this disastrous retreat.

[Typical Lax Dad]

NO! You are purposely being obtuse. This has NOTHING to do with chain of command. Did you spend 5 minutes to watch it until the end? This man threw away a 17 year career to ask for his leaders to acknowledge they messed this up. He is calling out his leaders for not accepting accountability for this disastrous retreat.

Guy doesn’t like Biden. Deep state guy for all I know.

[Kikin]

Wow, sure pal. Sure, this man threw away his 17 year military career because he doesn't like Biden, you know, "for all you know." Well, I am concluding a great deal about "what you know." You are entrenched in a political ideology and refuse to accept what has actually happened because, oh my goodness it might be true and your guy might be exposed for what he is. Pretty dangerous stuff. We are doomed if this is the trajectory of our country.

[DocBarrister]

NO! You are purposely being obtuse. This has NOTHING to do with chain of command. Did you spend 5 minutes to watch it until the end? This man threw away a 17 year career to ask for his leaders to acknowledge they messed this up. He is calling out his leaders for not accepting accountability for this disastrous retreat.

Insubordination.

Court martial.

Prison.

Dishonorable discharge.

Anything else?

Pretty much sums things up for that man.

He’ll be lucky to get a janitorial job.

DocBarrister