Loyola Greyhounds 2021

[houndace1]

Looking at the saturday game against Towson, and then the teams down the road, it certainly looks to be a rough stretch of games for the team to play, and hopefully win. How does the team have more shot clock violations than goals??

Sadly, i think even if they win against Army, twice against Navy and then somehow even Georgetown but lose in the PL tourney, it won't be enough to go dancing.

Playoffs essentially start now, and for these seniors who this could potentially be their last year, they want to leave with a better 2nd half of the season then the 1st half.

The Towson loss looks really really bad as of right now. However if they go on and win the CAA, then it looks decent. Same thing goes for the Richmond win for the SoCon. Same goes for the UVA loss if they win the ACC.

But they cannot rely on these other teams to get them in, this Loyola team has to earn it themselves. We know that Bailey, and the defense will be consistent week to week with their performance. Many others on this forum know that its the offense that is wildly inconsistent, and that is what is frustrating.

Its PL AQ or they go home. One game at a time, Navy is up next on CBS Sports Network on TV.

We're not all coaches but we can see that some personnel isn't working, maybe some guys just are not in the right spots for their sets. I've always been a proponent for Kamish to be the X attackman.

[jrn19]

Looking at the saturday game against Towson, and then the teams down the road, it certainly looks to be a rough stretch of games for the team to play, and hopefully win. How does the team have more shot clock violations than goals??

Sadly, i think even if they win against Army, twice against Navy and then somehow even Georgetown but lose in the PL tourney, it won't be enough to go dancing.

Playoffs essentially start now, and for these seniors who this could potentially be their last year, they want to leave with a better 2nd half of the season then the 1st half.

The Towson loss looks really really bad as of right now. However if they go on and win the CAA, then it looks decent. Same thing goes for the Richmond win for the SoCon. Same goes for the UVA loss if they win the ACC.

But they cannot rely on these other teams to get them in, this Loyola team has to earn it themselves. We know that Bailey, and the defense will be consistent week to week with their performance. Many others on this forum know that its the offense that is wildly inconsistent, and that is what is frustrating.

Its PL AQ or they go home. One game at a time, Navy is up next on CBS Sports Network on TV.

We're not all coaches but we can see that some personnel isn't working, maybe some guys just are not in the right spots for their sets. I've always been a proponent for Kamish to be the X attackman.

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

[GreyingHound]

Looking at the saturday game against Towson, and then the teams down the road, it certainly looks to be a rough stretch of games for the team to play, and hopefully win. How does the team have more shot clock violations than goals??

Sadly, i think even if they win against Army, twice against Navy and then somehow even Georgetown but lose in the PL tourney, it won't be enough to go dancing.

Playoffs essentially start now, and for these seniors who this could potentially be their last year, they want to leave with a better 2nd half of the season then the 1st half.

The Towson loss looks really really bad as of right now. However if they go on and win the CAA, then it looks decent. Same thing goes for the Richmond win for the SoCon. Same goes for the UVA loss if they win the ACC.

But they cannot rely on these other teams to get them in, this Loyola team has to earn it themselves. We know that Bailey, and the defense will be consistent week to week with their performance. Many others on this forum know that its the offense that is wildly inconsistent, and that is what is frustrating.

Its PL AQ or they go home. One game at a time, Navy is up next on CBS Sports Network on TV.

We're not all coaches but we can see that some personnel isn't working, maybe some guys just are not in the right spots for their sets. I've always been a proponent for Kamish to be the X attackman.

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

[jrn19]

Looking at the saturday game against Towson, and then the teams down the road, it certainly looks to be a rough stretch of games for the team to play, and hopefully win. How does the team have more shot clock violations than goals??

Sadly, i think even if they win against Army, twice against Navy and then somehow even Georgetown but lose in the PL tourney, it won't be enough to go dancing.

Playoffs essentially start now, and for these seniors who this could potentially be their last year, they want to leave with a better 2nd half of the season then the 1st half.

The Towson loss looks really really bad as of right now. However if they go on and win the CAA, then it looks decent. Same thing goes for the Richmond win for the SoCon. Same goes for the UVA loss if they win the ACC.

But they cannot rely on these other teams to get them in, this Loyola team has to earn it themselves. We know that Bailey, and the defense will be consistent week to week with their performance. Many others on this forum know that its the offense that is wildly inconsistent, and that is what is frustrating.

Its PL AQ or they go home. One game at a time, Navy is up next on CBS Sports Network on TV.

We're not all coaches but we can see that some personnel isn't working, maybe some guys just are not in the right spots for their sets. I've always been a proponent for Kamish to be the X attackman.

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

If you beat Army and Georgetown then you’re gonna get those quality wins. Georgetown isn’t going to drop too far if you beat them because, well, have you seen the last 7-8 teams in the Top 20? And Georgetown could also get a win over Denver as well later in the year.

And then Army at worst falls to back end Top 10 assuming they don’t fall off. So there’s one as well.

At present, no Loyola has no hope of an at large. And I don’t expect that they will by the end of the year. But the door is still open there; however there’s no margin for error. Probably need both wins over Army and Georgetown. The bubble is very weak this year. Once you get past the 2nd best team in the B1G/BE/PL you’re looking at....Loyola, Delaware if they don’t win the CAA....and that’s like it. The Ivy not playing depleted the bubble completely. Not many teams will have good resumes.

[laxbro11]

Looking at the saturday game against Towson, and then the teams down the road, it certainly looks to be a rough stretch of games for the team to play, and hopefully win. How does the team have more shot clock violations than goals??

Sadly, i think even if they win against Army, twice against Navy and then somehow even Georgetown but lose in the PL tourney, it won't be enough to go dancing.

Playoffs essentially start now, and for these seniors who this could potentially be their last year, they want to leave with a better 2nd half of the season then the 1st half.

The Towson loss looks really really bad as of right now. However if they go on and win the CAA, then it looks decent. Same thing goes for the Richmond win for the SoCon. Same goes for the UVA loss if they win the ACC.

But they cannot rely on these other teams to get them in, this Loyola team has to earn it themselves. We know that Bailey, and the defense will be consistent week to week with their performance. Many others on this forum know that its the offense that is wildly inconsistent, and that is what is frustrating.

Its PL AQ or they go home. One game at a time, Navy is up next on CBS Sports Network on TV.

I agree with you solid post. I worry about Navy... not so much about their offense, but Rees is playing incredibly well in goal. It will be tough to beat Navy twice... but i am optimistic. we need to go at least 4-1, Army is a long shot. But if we get the right players on the field, and get some chemistry, this team could be good. Defense is solid and can hang with anyone... just need some offensive help

We're not all coaches but we can see that some personnel isn't working, maybe some guys just are not in the right spots for their sets. I've always been a proponent for Kamish to be the X attackman.

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

[GreyingHound]

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

If you beat Army and Georgetown then you’re gonna get those quality wins. Georgetown isn’t going to drop too far if you beat them because, well, have you seen the last 7-8 teams in the Top 20? And Georgetown could also get a win over Denver as well later in the year.

And then Army at worst falls to back end Top 10 assuming they don’t fall off. So there’s one as well.

At present, no Loyola has no hope of an at large. And I don’t expect that they will by the end of the year. But the door is still open there; however there’s no margin for error. Probably need both wins over Army and Georgetown. The bubble is very weak this year. Once you get past the 2nd best team in the B1G/BE/PL you’re looking at....Loyola, Delaware if they don’t win the CAA....and that’s like it. The Ivy not playing depleted the bubble completely. Not many teams will have good resumes.

I like your optimism, and I would love to be wrong in this case. I think the fundamental problem is that Loyola, Lehigh, and Army have only two combined OOC games remaining this season (G'town and Villanova). That doesn't give them much opportunity to improve their RPI. Beating Bucknell and Lafayette is meaningless. Meanwhile, the top three PL teams taking turns beating each other up doesn't really help anyone.

Happy to buy you a beer at Loyola's first-round tourney game if I'm wrong!

[jrn19]

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

If you beat Army and Georgetown then you’re gonna get those quality wins. Georgetown isn’t going to drop too far if you beat them because, well, have you seen the last 7-8 teams in the Top 20? And Georgetown could also get a win over Denver as well later in the year.

And then Army at worst falls to back end Top 10 assuming they don’t fall off. So there’s one as well.

At present, no Loyola has no hope of an at large. And I don’t expect that they will by the end of the year. But the door is still open there; however there’s no margin for error. Probably need both wins over Army and Georgetown. The bubble is very weak this year. Once you get past the 2nd best team in the B1G/BE/PL you’re looking at....Loyola, Delaware if they don’t win the CAA....and that’s like it. The Ivy not playing depleted the bubble completely. Not many teams will have good resumes.

I like your optimism, and I would love to be wrong in this case. I think the fundamental problem is that Loyola, Lehigh, and Army have only two combined OOC games remaining this season (G'town and Villanova). That doesn't give them much opportunity to improve their RPI. Beating Bucknell and Lafayette is meaningless. Meanwhile, the top three PL teams taking turns beating each other up doesn't really help anyone.

Happy to buy you a beer at Loyola's first-round tourney game if I'm wrong!

One; when you consider that a 3rd B1G team’s RPI won’t be great plus a UMass potentially as an AL from the CAA won’t have a great RPI cause they only played 1 non-con game; while Loyola’s RPI won’t be amazing I think it’d suffice in comparison to others on the bubble.

Secondly, The head of the committee (Towson’s AD) has said the process will be more subjective this year and will take into account eye test and coaches opinions of teams and how they’re playing by May because of the craziness of this year. I think if Loyola beats army and Georgetown in the last few weeks that would help them in that regard.

Anyhow, if you’re looking for less optimism I wouldn’t pick you guys to win either of those games. Just don’t think there’s enough scoring against two great defensive teams. And Georgetown will have more offensive punch by then as they get more healthy. But if you were to somehow pick up those two wins, and it’d probably have to be both of them, I think you’ve got a shot

[youthathletics]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

[GreyingHound]

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

If you beat Army and Georgetown then you’re gonna get those quality wins. Georgetown isn’t going to drop too far if you beat them because, well, have you seen the last 7-8 teams in the Top 20? And Georgetown could also get a win over Denver as well later in the year.

And then Army at worst falls to back end Top 10 assuming they don’t fall off. So there’s one as well.

At present, no Loyola has no hope of an at large. And I don’t expect that they will by the end of the year. But the door is still open there; however there’s no margin for error. Probably need both wins over Army and Georgetown. The bubble is very weak this year. Once you get past the 2nd best team in the B1G/BE/PL you’re looking at....Loyola, Delaware if they don’t win the CAA....and that’s like it. The Ivy not playing depleted the bubble completely. Not many teams will have good resumes.

I like your optimism, and I would love to be wrong in this case. I think the fundamental problem is that Loyola, Lehigh, and Army have only two combined OOC games remaining this season (G'town and Villanova). That doesn't give them much opportunity to improve their RPI. Beating Bucknell and Lafayette is meaningless. Meanwhile, the top three PL teams taking turns beating each other up doesn't really help anyone.

Happy to buy you a beer at Loyola's first-round tourney game if I'm wrong!

One; when you consider that a 3rd B1G team’s RPI won’t be great plus a UMass potentially as an AL from the CAA won’t have a great RPI cause they only played 1 non-con game; while Loyola’s RPI won’t be amazing I think it’d suffice in comparison to others on the bubble.

Secondly, The head of the committee (Towson’s AD) has said the process will be more subjective this year and will take into account eye test and coaches opinions of teams and how they’re playing by May because of the craziness of this year. I think if Loyola beats army and Georgetown in the last few weeks that would help them in that regard.

Anyhow, if you’re looking for less optimism I wouldn’t pick you guys to win either of those games. Just don’t think there’s enough scoring against two great defensive teams. And Georgetown will have more offensive punch by then as they get more healthy. But if you were to somehow pick up those two wins, and it’d probably have to be both of them, I think you’ve got a shot

OK, now I think we're pretty much in agreement.

Me: It's mathematically impossible.

You: It's mathematically possible, but probably not going to happen.

I assume this is the article where you read about the committee's process being more subjective this year. Interesting read: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... more/57580

[jrn19]

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

If you beat Army and Georgetown then you’re gonna get those quality wins. Georgetown isn’t going to drop too far if you beat them because, well, have you seen the last 7-8 teams in the Top 20? And Georgetown could also get a win over Denver as well later in the year.

And then Army at worst falls to back end Top 10 assuming they don’t fall off. So there’s one as well.

At present, no Loyola has no hope of an at large. And I don’t expect that they will by the end of the year. But the door is still open there; however there’s no margin for error. Probably need both wins over Army and Georgetown. The bubble is very weak this year. Once you get past the 2nd best team in the B1G/BE/PL you’re looking at....Loyola, Delaware if they don’t win the CAA....and that’s like it. The Ivy not playing depleted the bubble completely. Not many teams will have good resumes.

I like your optimism, and I would love to be wrong in this case. I think the fundamental problem is that Loyola, Lehigh, and Army have only two combined OOC games remaining this season (G'town and Villanova). That doesn't give them much opportunity to improve their RPI. Beating Bucknell and Lafayette is meaningless. Meanwhile, the top three PL teams taking turns beating each other up doesn't really help anyone.

Happy to buy you a beer at Loyola's first-round tourney game if I'm wrong!

One; when you consider that a 3rd B1G team’s RPI won’t be great plus a UMass potentially as an AL from the CAA won’t have a great RPI cause they only played 1 non-con game; while Loyola’s RPI won’t be amazing I think it’d suffice in comparison to others on the bubble.

Secondly, The head of the committee (Towson’s AD) has said the process will be more subjective this year and will take into account eye test and coaches opinions of teams and how they’re playing by May because of the craziness of this year. I think if Loyola beats army and Georgetown in the last few weeks that would help them in that regard.

Anyhow, if you’re looking for less optimism I wouldn’t pick you guys to win either of those games. Just don’t think there’s enough scoring against two great defensive teams. And Georgetown will have more offensive punch by then as they get more healthy. But if you were to somehow pick up those two wins, and it’d probably have to be both of them, I think you’ve got a shot

OK, now I think we're pretty much in agreement.

Me: It's mathematically impossible.

You: It's mathematically possible, but probably not going to happen.

I assume this is the article where you read about the committee's process being more subjective this year. Interesting read: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... more/57580

Yep, that’s it. The portions on using a much more subjective process and the “RAC’s” which basically sounds like coaches ranking teams for the committee based off what they see was really interesting

[Farfromgeneva]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

Your team only joined the PL less then a decade ago and created the 9 team problem. They could’ve chosen to not bounce Hobart as well and have 10...

[youthathletics]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

Your team only joined the PL less then a decade ago and created the 9 team problem. They could’ve chosen to not bounce Hobart as well and have 10...

The struggle is real.

[Farfromgeneva]

For the boarding school majority at HWS? You bet. We got The NY Times jacking us, a former AD getting us into hot water with the NCAA for not doing proper paperwork and trying to move the program back to D3 only telling the BOD and no one else, our faculty and locally entrenched administrative class executed a coup on the most proactive and accomplished president we had after less than a year because he flipped the comfort of these folks who’ve failed the institution for 30yrs and on and on.

For Loyola? Could’ve joined the CAA or MAAC instead.

[kramerica.inc]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

Your team only joined the PL less then a decade ago and created the 9 team problem. They could’ve chosen to not bounce Hobart as well and have 10...

Hobart left the PL in 2003-2004 for the ECAC.
That's when all the AQ craziness was abounding.
Loyola was independent until it Joined the ECAC in 2003-ish and stayed until 2013. But wisely got out to stop all the travel and join the PL as full members. Loyola didn't want the CAA and other conferences didn't work out either. They explored A LOT of options. The ACC and BE wasn't accepting associate members. Loyola wasn't the right size/sports makeup for full membership. B1G lax wasn't established until 2015. The PL accepted the whole Loyola athletic program.
Mr. Hanna also had a little to do with that whole Hobart scenario too. Hobart wasn't ever a full member of the PL right? Just associate?

[wgdsr]

If they beat army and georgetown, but lost in the PL Tournament they’d have a shot. Cause they’d be fighting with a likely AL team in Georgetown and have a very recent H2H win plus two quality wins there when you throw in Army as well. That would probably put them in position for an AL. But that’s a mighty tough ask at this point as well as not slipping up in any other games. And if they’re able to beat Army and GTown and presumably find offense that we haven’t seen so far against Top 20 opposition: you’d figure they’d win the PL Tournament as well.

I disagree. There is zero chance for an at-large bid. Not a prayer. We are 0-2 against top-10 teams and 1-2 against the top 20. We have zero signature wins, and we have a loss to an unranked Towson. If you look at the remainder of the schedule, we don't have much of an opportunity to improve our resume.

Look at our remaining schedule:

• There's no justification for Navy to be in the top 20, as their OOC schedule is extremely weak. If we beat them, they drop out, so that doesn't help us. It's not a quality win.
• Similar argument for Georgetown. Yes, they beat up on weak teams, but they haven't beat any good teams. If we beat them, they drop as well.
• If we beat Lehigh in the PL semis, but lose in the finals, Lehigh also drops out of the top 10.
• Army is our only shot at a quality win at this point because they have their signature win over Syracuse. One quality win isn't going to be enough to get us in.

I'm generally an optimist, but the reality is that we have no shot at an at-large bid this year. Too many other teams will have better resumes than we will unfortunately.

If you beat Army and Georgetown then you’re gonna get those quality wins. Georgetown isn’t going to drop too far if you beat them because, well, have you seen the last 7-8 teams in the Top 20? And Georgetown could also get a win over Denver as well later in the year.

And then Army at worst falls to back end Top 10 assuming they don’t fall off. So there’s one as well.

At present, no Loyola has no hope of an at large. And I don’t expect that they will by the end of the year. But the door is still open there; however there’s no margin for error. Probably need both wins over Army and Georgetown. The bubble is very weak this year. Once you get past the 2nd best team in the B1G/BE/PL you’re looking at....Loyola, Delaware if they don’t win the CAA....and that’s like it. The Ivy not playing depleted the bubble completely. Not many teams will have good resumes.

I like your optimism, and I would love to be wrong in this case. I think the fundamental problem is that Loyola, Lehigh, and Army have only two combined OOC games remaining this season (G'town and Villanova). That doesn't give them much opportunity to improve their RPI. Beating Bucknell and Lafayette is meaningless. Meanwhile, the top three PL teams taking turns beating each other up doesn't really help anyone.

Happy to buy you a beer at Loyola's first-round tourney game if I'm wrong!

One; when you consider that a 3rd B1G team’s RPI won’t be great plus a UMass potentially as an AL from the CAA won’t have a great RPI cause they only played 1 non-con game; while Loyola’s RPI won’t be amazing I think it’d suffice in comparison to others on the bubble.

Secondly, The head of the committee (Towson’s AD) has said the process will be more subjective this year and will take into account eye test and coaches opinions of teams and how they’re playing by May because of the craziness of this year. I think if Loyola beats army and Georgetown in the last few weeks that would help them in that regard.

Anyhow, if you’re looking for less optimism I wouldn’t pick you guys to win either of those games. Just don’t think there’s enough scoring against two great defensive teams. And Georgetown will have more offensive punch by then as they get more healthy. But if you were to somehow pick up those two wins, and it’d probably have to be both of them, I think you’ve got a shot

you're looking at probably 3 and maybe 2 teams getting aq's before the at large pool runs out.
if loyola beats 2 of army/gtown/lehigh, they'll have more top wins than about anyone around the "bubble". and that includes rutgers, probably.

problem is the committee is either going off the reservation with comments or has been told he can do whatever they want. hockey was upended.

if it's the former, teams like loyola's with a couple high quality wins and a decent record will have a very good shot. if it's the latter, look for every excuse to get a p5 in at the bubble.

[wgdsr]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

just don't agree with this, youth.
plenty of room to get games in the patriot.

rpi, (used as basically the sole selection criterion the last several years) should not be happening. that's because the selection committee hasn't
a) been given enough exact direction on how to select
b) hasn't been given enough heat for changing things up over the years or lately.... following the rules they had.
which means wins and losses vs rpi, and sos, and h-to-h. not straight rpi for teams themselves, order lunch and call it a day.

[Farfromgeneva]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

Your team only joined the PL less then a decade ago and created the 9 team problem. They could’ve chosen to not bounce Hobart as well and have 10...

Hobart left the PL in 2003-2004 for the ECAC.
That's when all the AQ craziness was abounding.
Loyola was independent until it Joined the ECAC in 2003-ish and stayed until 2013. But wisely got out to stop all the travel and join the PL as full members. Loyola didn't want the CAA and other conferences didn't work out either. They explored A LOT of options. The ACC and BE wasn't accepting associate members. Loyola wasn't the right size/sports makeup for full membership. B1G lax wasn't established until 2015. The PL accepted the whole Loyola athletic program.
Mr. Hanna also had a little to do with that whole Hobart scenario too. Hobart wasn't ever a full member of the PL right? Just associate?

Yes as a D1 grandfathered lacrosse program at a school of 2,000 kids who’s never been allowed to give scholarships unlike another program they cannot ever be more than an affiliate member of any conference. That wasn’t a Hanna choice it’s a function of our status in lacrosse. But that didn’t stop the PL from wanting us in 1998 when they needed us, it changed w Navy coming in (full member? Do they play football in the PL?) and after Bart took a chunk of the AQs over that period (and an at arage in their last year in 2004 losing in the PL finals in OT to Navy after beating Army, Cornell and some other good teams that year). The NCAA has been looking to crush us for years as they would prefer to get rid of all the grandfathered programs (Hop included as would be Union hockey, they were happy with Hartwicks financial failure vis a vis soccer). Was thrown out of the PL you mean right? They made a rule that kept certain affiliate members like Villanova field hockey I think, in a way that only carved Hobart out after they had taken 3/5 PL titles.

Reality is Loyola, like Hobart, had to move because the ECAC was folding between the start of the Big East due to Syracuse acquiescing only to leave the conference (for football nothing to do with lacrosse) a minute later. It wasn’t a choice to “wisely leave the ECAC“, it was forced on the remaining members. GTown and St Johns bounced and the GWLL got chopped up with a few merging into what was left of the ECAC when the two big East programs left and UMass and PSU joined the CAA only for PSU to leave a couple of years later for BigTen which only exists because they pulled in Hopkins and Maryland blew their finances. No idea why Rutgers is in any major conference for the two “money” sports. More inexcusable than Baylor being in the Big Eight over TCU when that happened. Lacrosse will always be at the mercy to these spirts in third and fourth degree ways we can’t even envision.

It’s a good league for Loyola, probably, respectfully here, elevates the academic reputation. Great move with competitive and strong academic programs (I went to grad school at American U which has been part of PL for a while so went to a couple of BB games there, they have a decent soccer program too). I don’t blame them but if you think about the ECAC and being left homeless to being in a great league all around then you’d understand my point, partially tongue in cheek, to Youth which he got with his reply, complaint about the 9 team league making it harder to game RPI like some programs is a higher class problem to deal with than Loyola has had to since Dirrygl was coaching the team.

[Farfromgeneva]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

Your team only joined the PL less then a decade ago and created the 9 team problem. They could’ve chosen to not bounce Hobart as well and have 10...

Hobart left the PL in 2003-2004 for the ECAC.
That's when all the AQ craziness was abounding.
Loyola was independent until it Joined the ECAC in 2003-ish and stayed until 2013. But wisely got out to stop all the travel and join the PL as full members. Loyola didn't want the CAA and other conferences didn't work out either. They explored A LOT of options. The ACC and BE wasn't accepting associate members. Loyola wasn't the right size/sports makeup for full membership. B1G lax wasn't established until 2015. The PL accepted the whole Loyola athletic program.
Mr. Hanna also had a little to do with that whole Hobart scenario too. Hobart wasn't ever a full member of the PL right? Just associate?

https://patriotleague.org/news/2002/6/1 ... _Plan.aspx

[FMUBart]

That mere fact that RPI is even in consideration this year, speaks volumes. RPI should be trashed in lacrosse, especially b/c there is such a small sample size in game quantity and certain conferences are impacted by their structure. The PL is a prime example with 9 teams and bye, it certainly does not provide for much flexibility, especially when trying to schedule OOC games vs a presumed power house that will build your teams resume.

Your team only joined the PL less then a decade ago and created the 9 team problem. They could’ve chosen to not bounce Hobart as well and have 10...

Hobart left the PL in 2003-2004 for the ECAC.
That's when all the AQ craziness was abounding.
Loyola was independent until it Joined the ECAC in 2003-ish and stayed until 2013. But wisely got out to stop all the travel and join the PL as full members. Loyola didn't want the CAA and other conferences didn't work out either. They explored A LOT of options. The ACC and BE wasn't accepting associate members. Loyola wasn't the right size/sports makeup for full membership. B1G lax wasn't established until 2015. The PL accepted the whole Loyola athletic program.
Mr. Hanna also had a little to do with that whole Hobart scenario too. Hobart wasn't ever a full member of the PL right? Just associate?

Yes as a D1 grandfathered lacrosse program at a school of 2,000 kids who’s never been allowed to give scholarships unlike another program they cannot ever be more than an affiliate member of any conference. That wasn’t a Hanna choice it’s a function of our status in lacrosse. But that didn’t stop the PL from wanting us in 1998 when they needed us, it changed w Navy coming in (full member? Do they play football in the PL?) and after Bart took a chunk of the AQs over that period (and an at arage in their last year in 2004 losing in the PL finals in OT to Navy after beating Army, Cornell and some other good teams that year). The NCAA has been looking to crush us for years as they would prefer to get rid of all the grandfathered programs (Hop included as would be Union hockey, they were happy with Hartwicks financial failure vis a vis soccer). Was thrown out of the PL you mean right? They made a rule that kept certain affiliate members like Villanova field hockey I think, in a way that only carved Hobart out after they had taken 3/5 PL titles.

Reality is Loyola, like Hobart, had to move because the ECAC was folding between the start of the Big East due to Syracuse acquiescing only to leave the conference (for football nothing to do with lacrosse) a minute later. It wasn’t a choice to “wisely leave the ECAC“, it was forced on the remaining members. GTown and St Johns bounced and the GWLL got chopped up with a few merging into what was left of the ECAC when the two big East programs left and UMass and PSU joined the CAA only for PSU to leave a couple of years later for BigTen which only exists because they pulled in Hopkins and Maryland blew their finances. No idea why Rutgers is in any major conference for the two “money” sports. More inexcusable than Baylor being in the Big Eight over TCU when that happened. Lacrosse will always be at the mercy to these spirts in third and fourth degree ways we can’t even envision.

It’s a good league for Loyola, probably, respectfully here, elevates the academic reputation. Great move with competitive and strong academic programs (I went to grad school at American U which has been part of PL for a while so went to a couple of BB games there, they have a decent soccer program too). I don’t blame them but if you think about the ECAC and being left homeless to being in a great league all around then you’d understand my point, partially tongue in cheek, to Youth which he got with his reply, complaint about the 9 team league making it harder to game RPI like some programs is a higher class problem to deal with than Loyola has had to since Dirrygl was coaching the team.

FarFrom-- best post of yours that I've read. The PL was definitely pi33ed off that camp Ho-Ho was regularly taking the PL AQ. I'll never forget when Hobart & Army were tied for 1st place(no conf tourney back then) and Army had the head-to-head W over Hobart; all they had to do was beat a mediocre Colgate team. You guessed it, Colgate(coached by Hobart great Dan Whelan) knocked off the boys on the Hudson river. Jack Emmer was livid and Hobart went to the tourney. Beginning of the end for Hobart in the PL...since then Hobart has struggled to regain that level of play, although last year's team was one of the best D1 teams. The PL academic reputation was great for Hobart--just as Loyola's has been elevated, as FarFrom stated..

[Farfromgeneva]

I don’t want to be fighting folks anymore, you included. Probably just need to avoid politics. We’ve always agreed that Hanna was an a**hat. That much I recall from the 2000s when you were from Skaneateles and a LBLaser.