LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:15 am**

njbill wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:10 am You blame the lack of security for the criminal action on January 6. You say the Democrats wanted the violence, etc. That’s defending the insurrectionists. Pretty simple.

But don’t worry, if your hero Trump gets back into office, he’ll pardon all the insurrectionists.

Ha! I didn't blame anything. I asked a question. Seacoaster is much more informed than I and he was specifically commenting on security.

"Criminality" aside, you're telling me the Dems have not made political hay from the event?

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:19 am**

tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:40 am Seems to me though that if the NG had been there, all of this could have been avoided. Of course that would not have worked out so well for the Dems.

I don’t see a question in there.

Looks to me like you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning and started picking a fight with me about a discussion you had not participated in.

I’m done with this.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:22 am**

tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:15 am
njbill wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:10 am You blame the lack of security for the criminal action on January 6. You say the Democrats wanted the violence, etc. That’s defending the insurrectionists. Pretty simple.

But don’t worry, if your hero Trump gets back into office, he’ll pardon all the insurrectionists.
Ha! I didn't blame anything. I asked a question. Seacoaster is much more informed than I and he was specifically commenting on security.

"Criminality" aside, you're telling me the Dems have not made political hay from the event?

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:28 am**

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:25 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:18 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:08 am Maybe the "lack of security" was the result of security concerns/preparations not keeping up with the reality of political violence. In retrospect, I suppose it seems like a terminal lack of preparedness. But at the time, did any of us believe that the MAGAs would storm the Capitol and that the President would do nothing for hours except watch TV? Live and learn. Now we know political violence and threats of violence are a standard part of the Trump "leadership," to keep people in line, and to keep moderate voices silent.
In advance, didn't someone request the National Guard be called up to be at the rally? And wasn't that request denied by a D.C. Dem politician?

Just asking...
I'll tell you: It doesn't make any difference to me when evaluating the event itself. Thousands of people breached the Capitol, destroyed property, entered the offices of sitting members of Congress, and attempted to impede the orderly and proper transfer of power from one elected administration to another, and the guy who whipped them into the crowd-frenzy sat around eating overcooked hamburgers for hours. Twenty-twenty hindsight is good for planning for a future event of this sort. I doubt anyone expected what happened. The palaver around security cannot exonerate Trump or his movement from responsibility for this signal event in our lifetimes. This mainstreamed violence as a political tool in our country. Just saying.

The events of 9/11 should have been a reminder of how vital security is especially at our nations capital. It was common knowledge of the large rally being held by trump supporters. It was common knowledge of the events that would transpire at the capital building on that day. So nobody in charge of security at the capital was smart enough to think outside of the box. Geee, there are 10 thousand angry trump supporters having a rally to protest the election. Geee the election will finally be made official by VP Pence at the capital on that day. Geee, what could possibly go wrong?? The folks in charge of security at this high of a level have been trained to expect any and all possibilities. Except on this particular day they were not ready nor were they prepared out of an over abundance of caution. IMO it is totally unacceptable that the proper security was not made available and ready on that day.

The government has left no stone unturned to hold the people who desecrated our capital that day accountable. To my knowledge, the government has not held anyone accountable for the unacceptable lack of providing proper security for a possible event that was not out of the realm of possibility. Nobody wants to ask the question why nobody in charge of security at the capital took the proper precautions?

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.

Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm**

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.

I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:26 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.
I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.

Just to clear the air because I don't know the answer to this. Are their any published photos or videos that show any of the morons with a handgun or rifle in their hands?
There are audio clips of people claiming they saw folks carrying heat. Pictures speak louder than words. I find it odd that there isn't a single verifiable picture or video of any of the morons with a weapon in their hands after all this time. That doesn't mean some of morons were not carrying heat. It does mean they weren't waving them around like a moron would do.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:23 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:26 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.
I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.
Just to clear the air because I don't know the answer to this. Are their any published photos or videos that show any of the morons with a handgun or rifle in their hands?
There are audio clips of people claiming they saw folks carrying heat. Pictures speak louder than words. I find it odd that there isn't a single verifiable picture or video of any of the morons with a weapon in their hands after all this time. That doesn't mean some of morons were not carrying heat. It does mean they weren't waving them around like a moron would do.

I recall there being a photo of the man in the tree with a gun.

Here's another one of an insurrectionist who plead guilty to carrying a loaded gun on Jan 6. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

But I think generally speaking the guns were not being brandished wildly. Social media was apparently ablaze in the run-up on what to bring for Jan 5 and Jan 6 expected violence. Most discussion was about violence with counterprotestors, but the very hard core were preparing for the police. They warned that DC is a gun free zone and that it's taken seriously to be seen carrying, up to 5 years in prison. So, people were concealing...that's against the law too, but in a big crowd much harder for police. But there was lots of concern about those preparing for violence that they wouldn't get through various checkpoints if they were carrying...so, they brought other weapons with lower legal exposure instead. But some concealed guns and ammo as well as knives etc.

You'll recall that large numbers of Trump's most avid supporters didn't come past the final checkpoints for his speech, because of the magnetometers...which PO'd Trump..."they're my people"...

The hard core understood that the weight of the mob was their best asset and they led the violence with that weight, in hand to hand combat.

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:20 am**

I don't have a link but this blurb just broadcast on Fox News. Control yourself MD im watching on TV at the hospital. Surgery # 4 on my shoulder.

There is an allegation that The US Treasury department has " requested" US banks to search their sales records at Dicks Sporting Goods, Cabela's Sporting Goods and Bass Masters with the key search words MAGA and Trump. This fishing expedition was requested without a search warrant that would include probable cause for doing so. Now that this has hit the mainstream media the folks at Treasury have " NO COMMENT" I wonder why? Apparently this is not the first time Treasury has made similar requests to US Banks. Now that is transparency at its finest.

Full disclosure the Trump administration made the same requests of Treasury. I would think that any bank would say where is your court ordered subpoena?? Then politely come back to us when when you have one. IMO it's rather disconcerting when the banks say " sure, no problem, we will get right on that"

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:08 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:26 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.
I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.
Just to clear the air because I don't know the answer to this. Are their any published photos or videos that show any of the morons with a handgun or rifle in their hands?
There are audio clips of people claiming they saw folks carrying heat. Pictures speak louder than words. I find it odd that there isn't a single verifiable picture or video of any of the morons with a weapon in their hands after all this time. That doesn't mean some of morons were not carrying heat. It does mean they weren't waving them around like a moron would do.

“When prosecutors asked a jury to convict members of the Oath Keepers militia last year, they had a powerful piece of evidence: a pile of weapons stored in a Ballston hotel just outside of D.C. The Oath Keepers referred to it as their “QRF,” or quick reaction force. Prosecutors argued it was proof the militia members had conspired to forcibly oppose the government – a key element of the rarely used seditious conspiracy charge.”

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 9688137343

Location:

https://www.choicehotels.com/virginia/a ... f&adults=2

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:19 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:20 am I don't have a link but this blurb just broadcast on Fox News. Control yourself MD im watching on TV at the hospital. Surgery # 4 on my shoulder. There is an allegation that The US Treasury department has " requested" US banks to search their sales records at Dicks Sporting Goods, Cabela's Sporting Goods and Bass Masters with the key search words MAGA and Trump. This fishing expedition was requested without a search warrant that would include probable cause for doing so. Now that this has hit the mainstream media the folks at Treasury have " NO COMMENT" I wonder why? Apparently this is not the first time Treasury has made similar requests to US Banks. Now that is transparency at its finest.
Full disclosure the Trump administration made the same requests of Treasury. I would think that any bank would say where is your court ordered subpoena?? Then politely come back to us when when you have one. IMO it's rather disconcerting when the banks say " sure, no problem, we will get right on that"

I googled and found lots of attention to the "allegation" from Fox, Washington Times, and my favorite, Epoch News.

I also found this at The Hill, which is the only one of the four with "high credibility" and "mostly factual" media bias ratings:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4414 ... nsactions/

Jim Jordan is asking for a former Treasury official in the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network to do a transcribed interview based on this "allegation". That part of Treasury addresses a variety of financial crimes, money laundering and related crimes, including terrorism. Drug trafficking, arms trafficking, human trafficking...etc.

What IS clear from the reporting is that the "alleged" request for information about specific types of transactions was specific to January 6, not some wide sweeping MAGA/Trump enemies list. Law enforcement related to Jan 6. I dunno about you but the mob certainly didn't have any reluctance in identifying themselves as Trump MAGA supporters...that's why they were there, that's who they thought they were fighting for (according to their own testimony).

And this effort began under the Trump Admin in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, focused on potential threats on Inauguration Day. They were super worried about extremists, whether organized or lone actors, preparing for violent action.

The allegation by the Republicans, who acknowledge how it began, is that this effort extended beyond that imminent threat and that looking for extremists based on their political or religious expression should be out of bounds.

Interesting argument to be had about whether gun purchases or bomb materials purchases by those expressing extreme views should be at least explored for potential violent intentions. Would we not want such to be flagged for further investigation if the expressions were jihadist? If I'm referencing Allah in a communication about purchasing a gun or bomb materials? Or "from the river to the sea"? Obviously not all such is actually going to take violent action, but wouldn't we want them to be investigated and if possible prevented?

Here's the Republican House Committee (Republicans only) public statement so far.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-th ... terms-maga

PS, good luck with the surgery!

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:27 pm**

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:08 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:26 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.
I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.
Just to clear the air because I don't know the answer to this. Are their any published photos or videos that show any of the morons with a handgun or rifle in their hands?
There are audio clips of people claiming they saw folks carrying heat. Pictures speak louder than words. I find it odd that there isn't a single verifiable picture or video of any of the morons with a weapon in their hands after all this time. That doesn't mean some of morons were not carrying heat. It does mean they weren't waving them around like a moron would do.
“When prosecutors asked a jury to convict members of the Oath Keepers militia last year, they had a powerful piece of evidence: a pile of weapons stored in a Ballston hotel just outside of D.C. The Oath Keepers referred to it as their “QRF,” or quick reaction force. Prosecutors argued it was proof the militia members had conspired to forcibly oppose the government – a key element of the rarely used seditious conspiracy charge.”

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 9688137343

I don't see the relevance. Without a warrant it becomes a fishing expedition. Could be the reason why the FBI deleted the results from all of their files. So the government was willing to violate the rights of all Americans by engaging in profiling. That is something on this forum that is suppose to be a very bad thing.

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:35 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:27 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:08 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:26 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.
I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.
Just to clear the air because I don't know the answer to this. Are their any published photos or videos that show any of the morons with a handgun or rifle in their hands?
There are audio clips of people claiming they saw folks carrying heat. Pictures speak louder than words. I find it odd that there isn't a single verifiable picture or video of any of the morons with a weapon in their hands after all this time. That doesn't mean some of morons were not carrying heat. It does mean they weren't waving them around like a moron would do.
“When prosecutors asked a jury to convict members of the Oath Keepers militia last year, they had a powerful piece of evidence: a pile of weapons stored in a Ballston hotel just outside of D.C. The Oath Keepers referred to it as their “QRF,” or quick reaction force. Prosecutors argued it was proof the militia members had conspired to forcibly oppose the government – a key element of the rarely used seditious conspiracy charge.”

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 9688137343
I don't see the relevance. Without a warrant it becomes a fishing expedition. Could be the reason why the FBI deleted the results from all of their files. So the government was willing to violate the rights of all Americans by engaging in profiling. That is something on this forum that is suppose to be a very bad thing.

See my response above to your post about the Treasury request.
It's only alleged that people's "rights" were "violated".

Not so sure that's a fair characterization, but it's certainly a fair question. Look at my hypothetical about a jihadist expression made as part of the purchase of a gun or bomb making materials...

But this above is in response to the notion that there weren't guns present on Jan 6. The government had proof that went to the question of intent of the crime of sedition.

BTW, wouldn't an FBI deletion from their files post investigation more likely be because the intent was to identify and prevent imminent threats, not keep a political enemies list? Seems to me that retaining that information would be of much more concern...

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:38 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:19 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:20 am I don't have a link but this blurb just broadcast on Fox News. Control yourself MD im watching on TV at the hospital. Surgery # 4 on my shoulder. There is an allegation that The US Treasury department has " requested" US banks to search their sales records at Dicks Sporting Goods, Cabela's Sporting Goods and Bass Masters with the key search words MAGA and Trump. This fishing expedition was requested without a search warrant that would include probable cause for doing so. Now that this has hit the mainstream media the folks at Treasury have " NO COMMENT" I wonder why? Apparently this is not the first time Treasury has made similar requests to US Banks. Now that is transparency at its finest.
Full disclosure the Trump administration made the same requests of Treasury. I would think that any bank would say where is your court ordered subpoena?? Then politely come back to us when when you have one. IMO it's rather disconcerting when the banks say " sure, no problem, we will get right on that"
I googled and found lots of attention to the "allegation" from Fox, Washington Times, and my favorite, Epoch News.

I also found this at The Hill, which is the only one of the four with "high credibility" and "mostly factual" media bias ratings:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4414 ... nsactions/

Jim Jordan is asking for a former Treasury official in the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network to do a transcribed interview based on this "allegation". That part of Treasury addresses a variety of financial crimes, money laundering and related crimes, including terrorism. Drug trafficking, arms trafficking, human trafficking...etc.

What IS clear from the reporting is that the "alleged" request for information about specific types of transactions was specific to January 6, not some wide sweeping MAGA/Trump enemies list. Law enforcement related to Jan 6. I dunno about you but the mob certainly didn't have any reluctance in identifying themselves as Trump MAGA supporters...that's why they were there, that's who they thought they were fighting for (according to their own testimony).

And this effort began under the Trump Admin in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, focused on potential threats on Inauguration Day. They were super worried about extremists, whether organized or lone actors, preparing for violent action.

The allegation by the Republicans, who acknowledge how it began, is that this effort extended beyond that imminent threat and that looking for extremists based on their political or religious expression should be out of bounds.

Interesting argument to be had about whether gun purchases or bomb materials purchases by those expressing extreme views should be at least explored for potential violent intentions. Would we not want such to be flagged for further investigation if the expressions were jihadist? If I'm referencing Allah in a communication about purchasing a gun or bomb materials? Or "from the river to the sea"? Obviously not all such is actually going to take violent action, but wouldn't we want them to be investigated and if possible prevented?

Here's the Republican House Committee (Republicans only) public statement so far.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-th ... terms-maga

The bottom line is did they or didn't they request this raw data from banks? Apparently Bank of America dutifully did as they were told. Apparently the FBI erased all that data received from their files. You appear to be more concerned about the source of the information. Does the request to profile all Americans trouble you at all? These requests even covered religious material that some people like the FBI might consider as literature based in extremism. It is no wonder more and more Americans believe their government is becoming " weaponized" This is where perception becomes reality when the government finds out you bought a hunting knife from Dicks Sporting Goods and then wants to know why you bought it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:44 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:27 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:08 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:26 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.
I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.
Just to clear the air because I don't know the answer to this. Are their any published photos or videos that show any of the morons with a handgun or rifle in their hands?
There are audio clips of people claiming they saw folks carrying heat. Pictures speak louder than words. I find it odd that there isn't a single verifiable picture or video of any of the morons with a weapon in their hands after all this time. That doesn't mean some of morons were not carrying heat. It does mean they weren't waving them around like a moron would do.
“When prosecutors asked a jury to convict members of the Oath Keepers militia last year, they had a powerful piece of evidence: a pile of weapons stored in a Ballston hotel just outside of D.C. The Oath Keepers referred to it as their “QRF,” or quick reaction force. Prosecutors argued it was proof the militia members had conspired to forcibly oppose the government – a key element of the rarely used seditious conspiracy charge.”

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 9688137343
I don't see the relevance. Without a warrant it becomes a fishing expedition. Could be the reason why the FBI deleted the results from all of their files. So the government was willing to violate the rights of all Americans by engaging in profiling. That is something on this forum that is suppose to be a very bad thing.
See my response above to your post about the Treasury request.
It's only alleged that people's "rights" were "violated".

Not so sure that's a fair characterization, but it's certainly a fair question. Look at my hypothetical about a jihadist expression made as part of the purchase of a gun or bomb making materials...

But this above is in response to the notion that there weren't guns present on Jan 6. The government had proof that went to the question of intent of the crime of sedition.

BTW, wouldn't an FBI deletion from their files post investigation more likely be because the intent was to identify and prevent imminent threats, not keep a political enemies list? Seems to me that retaining that information would be of much more concern...

That is why Jim Jordan, no real friend of yours wants some questions answered. It is often said in Democrat circles that the seriousness of the allegations demand a thorough investigation. Sounds to me that would be a prudent idea here. Unless just sweeping it under the rug is more prudent to some people?

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:50 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:38 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:19 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:20 am I don't have a link but this blurb just broadcast on Fox News. Control yourself MD im watching on TV at the hospital. Surgery # 4 on my shoulder. There is an allegation that The US Treasury department has " requested" US banks to search their sales records at Dicks Sporting Goods, Cabela's Sporting Goods and Bass Masters with the key search words MAGA and Trump. This fishing expedition was requested without a search warrant that would include probable cause for doing so. Now that this has hit the mainstream media the folks at Treasury have " NO COMMENT" I wonder why? Apparently this is not the first time Treasury has made similar requests to US Banks. Now that is transparency at its finest.
Full disclosure the Trump administration made the same requests of Treasury. I would think that any bank would say where is your court ordered subpoena?? Then politely come back to us when when you have one. IMO it's rather disconcerting when the banks say " sure, no problem, we will get right on that"
I googled and found lots of attention to the "allegation" from Fox, Washington Times, and my favorite, Epoch News.

I also found this at The Hill, which is the only one of the four with "high credibility" and "mostly factual" media bias ratings:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4414 ... nsactions/

Jim Jordan is asking for a former Treasury official in the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network to do a transcribed interview based on this "allegation". That part of Treasury addresses a variety of financial crimes, money laundering and related crimes, including terrorism. Drug trafficking, arms trafficking, human trafficking...etc.

What IS clear from the reporting is that the "alleged" request for information about specific types of transactions was specific to January 6, not some wide sweeping MAGA/Trump enemies list. Law enforcement related to Jan 6. I dunno about you but the mob certainly didn't have any reluctance in identifying themselves as Trump MAGA supporters...that's why they were there, that's who they thought they were fighting for (according to their own testimony).

And this effort began under the Trump Admin in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, focused on potential threats on Inauguration Day. They were super worried about extremists, whether organized or lone actors, preparing for violent action.

The allegation by the Republicans, who acknowledge how it began, is that this effort extended beyond that imminent threat and that looking for extremists based on their political or religious expression should be out of bounds.

Interesting argument to be had about whether gun purchases or bomb materials purchases by those expressing extreme views should be at least explored for potential violent intentions. Would we not want such to be flagged for further investigation if the expressions were jihadist? If I'm referencing Allah in a communication about purchasing a gun or bomb materials? Or "from the river to the sea"? Obviously not all such is actually going to take violent action, but wouldn't we want them to be investigated and if possible prevented?

Here's the Republican House Committee (Republicans only) public statement so far.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-th ... terms-maga
The bottom line is did they or didn't they request this raw data from banks? Apparently Bank of America dutifully did as they were told. Apparently the FBI erased all that data received from their files. You appear to be more concerned about the source of the information. Does the request to profile all Americans trouble you at all? These requests even covered religious material that some people like the FBI might consider as literature based in extremism. It is no wonder more and more Americans believe their government is becoming " weaponized" This is where perception becomes reality when the government finds out you bought a hunting knife from Dicks Sporting Goods and then wants to know why you bought it.

Again, if we only look at what the Republicans themselves have put out in writing, Treasury, under the Trump Administration, focused on imminent threats in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, . They looked only at expressions that most people wouldn't make when purchasing a gun of bomb components. And you're saying that Treasury/FBI deleted that information post investigation of threat.

so, not an enemies list?

Now, if there's an ongoing list of ALL such expressions in various media, that would be very troubling. But why is anyone talking politics in a digital transmission when buying a gun? Let's take a look...is the communication indicating ideological anger? Let's look closer.

My jihadist is a fair question...wouldn't it be reasonable to take a look at whether there's an actual threat? and if not, delete the info?

Seems to me at least a reasonable question as to where the line gets crossed.

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:03 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:27 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:08 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:26 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:37 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:24 pm NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj0R9QedwG4

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... 46252ac24c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ants-guns/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna79755

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 6/2793649/

But keep believing no one brought guns, much less thousands of rounds of ammo confiscated, hundreds of knives, long blades, etc.

Your Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me, pure MAGA. The idea that the shooting of Babbitt wasn't fully justified is simply crazy, but again the MAGA cult is strong in you. Tragic yes that a delusional woman, ex military, bought so hard into the lies told to her by those trying to make people like her angry that she took violent action against police, mere yards away from Congressional staff and others including those the mob was threatening to kill, breaching the last physical barrier...

Many think the police should have shot many more offenders, earlier. I disagree, but I applaud the enormous restraint and courage it took to fight hand to hand instead.

No, that was a fan who called you out on the "follow the laws" matter. I called you out on the "one single firearm" nonsense next to it.

"One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws."

Nope, many guns. But it's interesting that you imagine there was just one. You ain't hearing that in the mainstream media, because it's just not factual. Multiple prosecutions have included gun charges now. Guilty pleas, convictions. So, where are you hearing it that you wrote with such certainty?

Of course people of all political persuasions are worried about gun violence and border security.

But, MAGA has openly embraced the 2nd Amendment nut job absolutists. And yes, MAGA has embraced the white nationalists who see immigration through their bigoted lens. They embrace those extremes as core, and they embrace those extremists as 'patriots'. The Republican Party I've been a member of for 4 decades didn't do so. Reagan didn't do so. Dole didn't. Neither Bush. Not McCain, not Romney, not Cheney ...but Trump did. MAGA did.

Most important is the Jan 6 insurrection denialism, but this is really all about authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, whatever ways they can do so.

When you have something you're 'passionate' about that isn't in the MAGA songbook, let us know. I'm just not buying it, given that at every turn young from the MAGA songbook.
Upgraded to abhorrent. And cleverly exposed as the MAGA trojan horse prepper in a decommissioned South Dakota missle silo that I am. That being said, I'm having a hard time not picturing you as a Democrat voting Darien Karen in a 14,000 square foot pile of bricks. God bless this mess!

I never apologized for the actions of that day which were illegal, and deserving of "having one's day in court". And I don't see how being skeptical regarding the information we have been provided by our press (both sides), our politicians (both sides), and the lobbying industrial complex that feeds the desired J6 narratives is something that is deserving of derision and anger. The entrenched cranial absolutists here seem to have lost all gray matter elasticity. You name the topic on this board or facing America and the world these days, and my mindset defaults to a point where optimism and skepticism intersect. Guess I should apologize for that?

Whether one or 10 guns were among the crowd (and everyone illegally carrying one that day should face charges) - the picture painted of an armed militia with hostile takeover on their mind is one I personally can't reconcile. Images of Portland burning for a Summer, and the 2020 Minneapolis riots which were highlighted with a police precinct firebombing, just so happen to be just as scary to me. And I'm wondering when our government will be going after the perpetrators of those actions - insurrection? terrorism ? - with the same fervor. Good for the goose, good for the gander doesn't apply when fire fills the sky? I need help understanding.

The cop who shot Ms. Babbitt admitted in an interview that in 2019 he left his gun unattended in a Capitol Visitors Center bathroom.“It was a terrible mistake. I acknowledged it. I owned up to it,” Byrd said. “I accepted the responsibility. I was penalized for it and I moved on.” As a taxpaying citizen (does saying that make me MAGA?), I'm outraged he was allowed to "move on". He should have been immediately and permanently relieved of his position and his service weapon, and given a desk job. Or better yet, FIRED. His "oopsie doopsie sorry" lapse in judgement, which put the public at severe risk, is disgusting. Imagine if some 8 year old kid in the visitor center bathroom that day had picked up that loaded gun? Oopsie. Bang. Dead. Where's Everytown when you need them?

I have to ask, what is a 1st Amendment nut job absolutist? A 4th? A 5th? Those pesky Amendments. Our pesky Republic.

When it comes to authoritarian power and making people angry and afraid, you think MAGAts have a monopoly? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

I'll be sure to give Fox and Tucker some viewing, see if I can find the Official MAGA Songbook on Amazon, and try to figure out how to repaint better camouflage on my Trojan Horse.

As always, it's been a distinct treat checking in here. I'll drop back for more ranty fun when time and inspiration allows. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate the herculean tussles raging here. Quite entertaining and I mean that sincerely and not snarkily. Be well.
I dunno what a Darien Karen is, but I guess you're much more online than I am?

Yes, Jan 6 denialism is abhorrent to me...I had no idea that you were a Jan 6 denialist until you made that clear. One gun. An easily refuted lie. Frankly, I think you knew it was a lie when you spouted it.

I'm not sure what that word salad of dancing actually means, but you were flat out clear about the Babbitt matter...and now you dance away again. And pretend your issue with the cop was an error made unrelated to Jan 6. Sure.

And now you do the Fox twist, let's consider Portland...violence that deserves strong rebuke and punishment, but not as an excuse or comparison to an attempt to keep a defeated President in power through force. Squirrel! MAGA logic.

Yup, abhorrent.

And sure, pretend you don't know what a 2nd Amendment nut job absolutist is. You folks interpret the words in an absolutist way quite differently than what the Founders meant...and why? Because you're absolutist nut jobs that think ANY regulation of guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Take that argument to a different thread. Just don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

You're absolutely oozing MAGA, waffle.
Just to clear the air because I don't know the answer to this. Are their any published photos or videos that show any of the morons with a handgun or rifle in their hands?
There are audio clips of people claiming they saw folks carrying heat. Pictures speak louder than words. I find it odd that there isn't a single verifiable picture or video of any of the morons with a weapon in their hands after all this time. That doesn't mean some of morons were not carrying heat. It does mean they weren't waving them around like a moron would do.
“When prosecutors asked a jury to convict members of the Oath Keepers militia last year, they had a powerful piece of evidence: a pile of weapons stored in a Ballston hotel just outside of D.C. The Oath Keepers referred to it as their “QRF,” or quick reaction force. Prosecutors argued it was proof the militia members had conspired to forcibly oppose the government – a key element of the rarely used seditious conspiracy charge.”

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 9688137343
I don't see the relevance. Without a warrant it becomes a fishing expedition. Could be the reason why the FBI deleted the results from all of their files. So the government was willing to violate the rights of all Americans by engaging in profiling. That is something on this forum that is suppose to be a very bad thing.
See my response above to your post about the Treasury request.
It's only alleged that people's "rights" were "violated".

Not so sure that's a fair characterization, but it's certainly a fair question. Look at my hypothetical about a jihadist expression made as part of the purchase of a gun or bomb making materials...

But this above is in response to the notion that there weren't guns present on Jan 6. The government had proof that went to the question of intent of the crime of sedition.

BTW, wouldn't an FBI deletion from their files post investigation more likely be because the intent was to identify and prevent imminent threats, not keep a political enemies list? Seems to me that retaining that information would be of much more concern...
That is why Jim Jordan, no real friend of yours wants some questions answered. It is often said in Democrat circles that the seriousness of the allegations demand a thorough investigation. Sounds to me that would be a prudent idea here. Unless just sweeping it under the rug is more prudent to some people?

Not so sure you have any clue what "Democrat circles" say.

But sure, if an enemies list is being kept merely for political support of the former President, then you betcha that's a problem.

But that's not what is alleged, apparently.

Pretty sure, but I'll wait for more facts, that this was legitimate effort to prevent terrorist or insurrectionist violence.

But you never know when someone could have done something improper and I have no issue with serious oversight. I just don't think that's Jim Jordan's agenda.

BTW, Trump and those close to him are explicitly saying they will compile such lists and take acts of retribution using the power of government. They are also claiming that a President should have TOTAL immunity for ANYTHING he does when in office, no matter how criminal...including the assassination of his political opponents (firing any civil servant who has ever voted for or contributed to a Democrat or RINO is small potatoes, comparatively...they assume they can do that, even though there's legislation that says no)...

I don't see anything alleged here that the Biden Admin has taken such info and made hiring decisions or any other punitive action based on politics...just prosecutions of actual criminal activity.

Pretty big difference, IMO.

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:06 pm**

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:50 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:38 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:19 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:20 am I don't have a link but this blurb just broadcast on Fox News. Control yourself MD im watching on TV at the hospital. Surgery # 4 on my shoulder. There is an allegation that The US Treasury department has " requested" US banks to search their sales records at Dicks Sporting Goods, Cabela's Sporting Goods and Bass Masters with the key search words MAGA and Trump. This fishing expedition was requested without a search warrant that would include probable cause for doing so. Now that this has hit the mainstream media the folks at Treasury have " NO COMMENT" I wonder why? Apparently this is not the first time Treasury has made similar requests to US Banks. Now that is transparency at its finest.
Full disclosure the Trump administration made the same requests of Treasury. I would think that any bank would say where is your court ordered subpoena?? Then politely come back to us when when you have one. IMO it's rather disconcerting when the banks say " sure, no problem, we will get right on that"
I googled and found lots of attention to the "allegation" from Fox, Washington Times, and my favorite, Epoch News.

I also found this at The Hill, which is the only one of the four with "high credibility" and "mostly factual" media bias ratings:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4414 ... nsactions/

Jim Jordan is asking for a former Treasury official in the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network to do a transcribed interview based on this "allegation". That part of Treasury addresses a variety of financial crimes, money laundering and related crimes, including terrorism. Drug trafficking, arms trafficking, human trafficking...etc.

What IS clear from the reporting is that the "alleged" request for information about specific types of transactions was specific to January 6, not some wide sweeping MAGA/Trump enemies list. Law enforcement related to Jan 6. I dunno about you but the mob certainly didn't have any reluctance in identifying themselves as Trump MAGA supporters...that's why they were there, that's who they thought they were fighting for (according to their own testimony).

And this effort began under the Trump Admin in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, focused on potential threats on Inauguration Day. They were super worried about extremists, whether organized or lone actors, preparing for violent action.

The allegation by the Republicans, who acknowledge how it began, is that this effort extended beyond that imminent threat and that looking for extremists based on their political or religious expression should be out of bounds.

Interesting argument to be had about whether gun purchases or bomb materials purchases by those expressing extreme views should be at least explored for potential violent intentions. Would we not want such to be flagged for further investigation if the expressions were jihadist? If I'm referencing Allah in a communication about purchasing a gun or bomb materials? Or "from the river to the sea"? Obviously not all such is actually going to take violent action, but wouldn't we want them to be investigated and if possible prevented?

Here's the Republican House Committee (Republicans only) public statement so far.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-th ... terms-maga
The bottom line is did they or didn't they request this raw data from banks? Apparently Bank of America dutifully did as they were told. Apparently the FBI erased all that data received from their files. You appear to be more concerned about the source of the information. Does the request to profile all Americans trouble you at all? These requests even covered religious material that some people like the FBI might consider as literature based in extremism. It is no wonder more and more Americans believe their government is becoming " weaponized" This is where perception becomes reality when the government finds out you bought a hunting knife from Dicks Sporting Goods and then wants to know why you bought it.
Again, if we only look at what the Republicans themselves have put out in writing, Treasury, under the Trump Administration, focused on imminent threats in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, . They looked only at expressions that most people wouldn't make when purchasing a gun of bomb components. And you're saying that Treasury/FBI deleted that information post investigation of threat.

so, not an enemies list?

Now, if there's an ongoing list of ALL such expressions in various media, that would be very troubling. But why is anyone talking politics in a digital transmission when buying a gun? Let's take a look...is the communication indicating ideological anger? Let's look closer.

My jihadist is a fair question...wouldn't it be reasonable to take a look at whether there's an actual threat? and if not, delete the info?

Seems to me at least a reasonable question as to where the line gets crossed.

Good point but the trump research was narrow in scope yet still unethical. This recent research actually included a request for data from all over the country trying to find anyone who may have been involved in January 6. No matter how you slice it the actions of both administrations probably crossed a line over into profiling. The fact the FBI quickly erased that data from their files sorta verifies that fact. This should bother all American regardless of your political ideology.

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:20 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:06 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:50 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:38 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:19 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:20 am I don't have a link but this blurb just broadcast on Fox News. Control yourself MD im watching on TV at the hospital. Surgery # 4 on my shoulder. There is an allegation that The US Treasury department has " requested" US banks to search their sales records at Dicks Sporting Goods, Cabela's Sporting Goods and Bass Masters with the key search words MAGA and Trump. This fishing expedition was requested without a search warrant that would include probable cause for doing so. Now that this has hit the mainstream media the folks at Treasury have " NO COMMENT" I wonder why? Apparently this is not the first time Treasury has made similar requests to US Banks. Now that is transparency at its finest.
Full disclosure the Trump administration made the same requests of Treasury. I would think that any bank would say where is your court ordered subpoena?? Then politely come back to us when when you have one. IMO it's rather disconcerting when the banks say " sure, no problem, we will get right on that"
I googled and found lots of attention to the "allegation" from Fox, Washington Times, and my favorite, Epoch News.

I also found this at The Hill, which is the only one of the four with "high credibility" and "mostly factual" media bias ratings:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4414 ... nsactions/

Jim Jordan is asking for a former Treasury official in the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network to do a transcribed interview based on this "allegation". That part of Treasury addresses a variety of financial crimes, money laundering and related crimes, including terrorism. Drug trafficking, arms trafficking, human trafficking...etc.

What IS clear from the reporting is that the "alleged" request for information about specific types of transactions was specific to January 6, not some wide sweeping MAGA/Trump enemies list. Law enforcement related to Jan 6. I dunno about you but the mob certainly didn't have any reluctance in identifying themselves as Trump MAGA supporters...that's why they were there, that's who they thought they were fighting for (according to their own testimony).

And this effort began under the Trump Admin in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, focused on potential threats on Inauguration Day. They were super worried about extremists, whether organized or lone actors, preparing for violent action.

The allegation by the Republicans, who acknowledge how it began, is that this effort extended beyond that imminent threat and that looking for extremists based on their political or religious expression should be out of bounds.

Interesting argument to be had about whether gun purchases or bomb materials purchases by those expressing extreme views should be at least explored for potential violent intentions. Would we not want such to be flagged for further investigation if the expressions were jihadist? If I'm referencing Allah in a communication about purchasing a gun or bomb materials? Or "from the river to the sea"? Obviously not all such is actually going to take violent action, but wouldn't we want them to be investigated and if possible prevented?

Here's the Republican House Committee (Republicans only) public statement so far.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-th ... terms-maga
The bottom line is did they or didn't they request this raw data from banks? Apparently Bank of America dutifully did as they were told. Apparently the FBI erased all that data received from their files. You appear to be more concerned about the source of the information. Does the request to profile all Americans trouble you at all? These requests even covered religious material that some people like the FBI might consider as literature based in extremism. It is no wonder more and more Americans believe their government is becoming " weaponized" This is where perception becomes reality when the government finds out you bought a hunting knife from Dicks Sporting Goods and then wants to know why you bought it.
Again, if we only look at what the Republicans themselves have put out in writing, Treasury, under the Trump Administration, focused on imminent threats in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, . They looked only at expressions that most people wouldn't make when purchasing a gun of bomb components. And you're saying that Treasury/FBI deleted that information post investigation of threat.

so, not an enemies list?

Now, if there's an ongoing list of ALL such expressions in various media, that would be very troubling. But why is anyone talking politics in a digital transmission when buying a gun? Let's take a look...is the communication indicating ideological anger? Let's look closer.

My jihadist is a fair question...wouldn't it be reasonable to take a look at whether there's an actual threat? and if not, delete the info?

Seems to me at least a reasonable question as to where the line gets crossed.
Good point but the trump research was narrow in scope yet still unethical. This recent research actually included a request for data from all over the country trying to find anyone who may have been involved in January 6. No matter how you slice it the actions of both administrations probably crossed a line over into profiling. The fact the FBI quickly erased that data from their files sorta verifies that fact. This should bother all American regardless of your political ideology.

Again, not so sure I agree.

Would I have had an issue with a search of ideological expressions in communications re gun purchases or bomb making materials in the wake of 9-11, "all over the country"??

I don't think so.

But I'd expect that info to be deleted if, upon investigation, a determination of no threat was made.

BTW, the Trump MAGA inspired insurrectionists on Jan 6 came from "all over the country"...and the lone actor threat re Inauguration Day certainly would have been from any state...

And it's pretty darn obvious that some pretty whacked out people are willing to do extreme violence based on their ideological beliefs (some leave the evidence behind in social media and written or recorded manifestos); and that's not just in in the DC area, right?

So, I'm back to: 'what does it say when someone is talking, digitally, about ideology when buying a gun or bomb making materials?) Seems to me, Yikes...let's find out.

Posted: **Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:58 pm**

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:38 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:19 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:20 am I don't have a link but this blurb just broadcast on Fox News. Control yourself MD im watching on TV at the hospital. Surgery # 4 on my shoulder. There is an allegation that The US Treasury department has " requested" US banks to search their sales records at Dicks Sporting Goods, Cabela's Sporting Goods and Bass Masters with the key search words MAGA and Trump. This fishing expedition was requested without a search warrant that would include probable cause for doing so. Now that this has hit the mainstream media the folks at Treasury have " NO COMMENT" I wonder why? Apparently this is not the first time Treasury has made similar requests to US Banks. Now that is transparency at its finest.
Full disclosure the Trump administration made the same requests of Treasury. I would think that any bank would say where is your court ordered subpoena?? Then politely come back to us when when you have one. IMO it's rather disconcerting when the banks say " sure, no problem, we will get right on that"
I googled and found lots of attention to the "allegation" from Fox, Washington Times, and my favorite, Epoch News.

I also found this at The Hill, which is the only one of the four with "high credibility" and "mostly factual" media bias ratings:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4414 ... nsactions/

Jim Jordan is asking for a former Treasury official in the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network to do a transcribed interview based on this "allegation". That part of Treasury addresses a variety of financial crimes, money laundering and related crimes, including terrorism. Drug trafficking, arms trafficking, human trafficking...etc.

What IS clear from the reporting is that the "alleged" request for information about specific types of transactions was specific to January 6, not some wide sweeping MAGA/Trump enemies list. Law enforcement related to Jan 6. I dunno about you but the mob certainly didn't have any reluctance in identifying themselves as Trump MAGA supporters...that's why they were there, that's who they thought they were fighting for (according to their own testimony).

And this effort began under the Trump Admin in the immediate aftermath of Jan 6, focused on potential threats on Inauguration Day. They were super worried about extremists, whether organized or lone actors, preparing for violent action.

The allegation by the Republicans, who acknowledge how it began, is that this effort extended beyond that imminent threat and that looking for extremists based on their political or religious expression should be out of bounds.

Interesting argument to be had about whether gun purchases or bomb materials purchases by those expressing extreme views should be at least explored for potential violent intentions. Would we not want such to be flagged for further investigation if the expressions were jihadist? If I'm referencing Allah in a communication about purchasing a gun or bomb materials? Or "from the river to the sea"? Obviously not all such is actually going to take violent action, but wouldn't we want them to be investigated and if possible prevented?

Here's the Republican House Committee (Republicans only) public statement so far.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-th ... terms-maga
The bottom line is did they or didn't they request this raw data from banks? Apparently Bank of America dutifully did as they were told. Apparently the FBI erased all that data received from their files. You appear to be more concerned about the source of the information. Does the request to profile all Americans trouble you at all? These requests even covered religious material that some people like the FBI might consider as literature based in extremism. It is no wonder more and more Americans believe their government is becoming " weaponized" This is where perception becomes reality when the government finds out you bought a hunting knife from Dicks Sporting Goods and then wants to know why you bought it.

“Becoming”

Go google “cointelpro”…

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January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?