The Nation's Financial Condition

[Farfromgeneva]

Seems like the goal is to pry open Pandora's box....just for the sake of opening it, and then never look back.

Which as a contrarian and enjoy being a provocateur sounds like fun but I don’t want our country chained and bound to a rock raging at the elements and gods while our body, skin and bones are picked away at for eternity…

[Farfromgeneva]

What do folks think about this concept?

https://www.crisesnotes.com/yet-another ... ntthecoin/

Yelled flat out rejected it this am on CNBC. I don’t usually agree with her on macro, she’s a smart lady just with different biases than me, but was unequivocal. They don’t have a transcript up but it was around but it was around 7:40-7:45 EST this am as part of a discussion in the debt ceiling about 2/3 into it if anyone wants to look for the transcript later today when it surely will be up.

Yellen.

Not surprised that she rejected it.
It's applying an absurd solution to an absurd situation.

Far preferable is rationality.
But will that happen without calamity first?

I was doing some excel stuff so in background and partly hearing but basically her reply. It’s a manufactured problem so this would be a ridiculous “solution” that is all risk and minimal reward.

Yup, but is it actually worse than the calamity that will surely occur if rationality and responsibility don't prevail first?

She has to root for the rational, responsible answer, but she's not Mitch.
He has different strategic goals than the nation's economy.

Unfortunately you may be correct but that’s an abrogation of his duties. Sort of like how most of congress, on both sides, has behaved, for a few decades now which is why our monetary policy is so broken and politicized now too.

[seacoaster]

The debt ceiling debate summarized properly:

Democrats want to ensure that the United States pays its bills for funding which was primarily approved by a GOP Congress and Senate under a Republican president.

Republicans are threatening to blow up the world economy -- for political points -- by refusing to pay for spending for which they, at some point, voted.

This is what the GOP is today.

[CU88]

The debt ceiling debate summarized properly:

Democrats want to ensure that the United States pays its bills for funding which was primarily approved by a GOP Congress and Senate under a Republican president.

Republicans are threatening to blow up the world economy -- for political points -- by refusing to pay for spending for which they, at some point, voted.

This is what the GOP is today.

+1

[NattyBohChamps04]

The debt ceiling debate summarized properly:

Democrats want to ensure that the United States pays its bills for funding which was primarily approved by a GOP Congress and Senate under a Republican president.

Republicans are threatening to blow up the world economy -- for political points -- by refusing to pay for spending for which they, at some point, voted.

This is what the GOP is today.

Don't forget Part 3: Blame the other side.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Seems like the goal is to pry open Pandora's box....just for the sake of opening it, and then never look back.

Which as a contrarian and enjoy being a provocateur sounds like fun but I don’t want our country chained and bound to a rock raging at the elements and gods while our body, skin and bones are picked away at for eternity…

[Farfromgeneva]

Precisely

[RedFromMI]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

[youthathletics]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

Also Ian...

If the debt ceiling is breached, the economy plunges into a deep recession, Biden is discredited, Republicans win supermajorities, and the light of democracy goes out in the United States -- possibly forever.

But I'm sure Dems have a good reason to delay fixing this problem.

and another:
Jesus FXXXing Christ this is reckless.

Senate Dems are literally betting the world economy -- and the future of democracy -- on whether McConnell won't gleefully plunge the US into a recession and let Biden take the blame for it.

Just pass the damn reconciliation bill!

[Farfromgeneva]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

Also Ian...

If the debt ceiling is breached, the economy plunges into a deep recession, Biden is discredited, Republicans win supermajorities, and the light of democracy goes out in the United States -- possibly forever.

But I'm sure Dems have a good reason to delay fixing this problem.

and another:
Jesus FXXXing Christ this is reckless.

Senate Dems are literally betting the world economy -- and the future of democracy -- on whether McConnell won't gleefully plunge the US into a recession and let Biden take the blame for it.

Just pass the damn reconciliation bill!

It’s funny because the ones blaming it all on the republicans have it only partially correct. Watching the circus from last Sunday and the leftist wing of the democrats (progressive is such a bogus term they’ve appropriated for marketing purposes) and it’s clear they’re fighting for the sake of fighting and not legislating as well calling people in their party Republicans in a pejorative manner and Pelosi not following through with her commitment to her own democratic problem solver caucus.

Sorta feels like a JV version of the cannabilization that has already occurred in the Republican Party which would be par for the course as they’ve whine for my lifetime about what the republicans have done only to adopt the same practices 5-10yrs later over and over again. Not taats, so please stay away from this trips, but I can think of heroes examples from using reconciliation in abusive ways to the money machine of pacs.

[Kismet]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

Also Ian...

If the debt ceiling is breached, the economy plunges into a deep recession, Biden is discredited, Republicans win supermajorities, and the light of democracy goes out in the United States -- possibly forever.

But I'm sure Dems have a good reason to delay fixing this problem.

and another:
Jesus FXXXing Christ this is reckless.

Senate Dems are literally betting the world economy -- and the future of democracy -- on whether McConnell won't gleefully plunge the US into a recession and let Biden take the blame for it.

Just pass the damn reconciliation bill!

It’s funny because the ones blaming it all on the republicans have it only partially correct. Watching the circus from last Sunday and the leftist wing of the democrats (progressive is such a bogus term they’ve appropriated for marketing purposes) and it’s clear they’re fighting for the sake of fighting and not legislating as well calling people in their party Republicans in a pejorative manner and Pelosi not following through with her commitment to her own democratic problem solver caucus.

Sorta feels like a JV version of the cannabilization that has already occurred in the Republican Party which would be par for the course as they’ve whine for my lifetime about what the republicans have done only to adopt the same practices 5-10yrs later over and over again. Not taats, so please stay away from this trips, but I can think of heroes examples from using reconciliation in abusive ways to the money machine of pacs.

My prediction.....Dems blow up the filibuster on a carve out for debt ceiling. Both Manchin and Sinema go for it and Veep casts the deciding vote. If they are smart, the will raise it so they don't have to deal with it until after the 2022 mid-terms at the earliest.

[seacoaster]

Wasn't sure where to put this (or put it at all given the disinclination to read from "lefty" sources). But this is an interesting and alarming piece, IMO:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/opin ... clear.html

"Every so often the tectonic geopolitical plates that hold up the world economy suddenly shift in ways that can rattle and destabilize everything on the surface. That’s happening right now in the energy sphere.

Several forces are coming together that could make Vladimir Putin the king of Europe, enable Iran to thumb its nose at America and build an atomic bomb, and disrupt European power markets enough that the upcoming U.N. climate conference in Glasgow could suffer blackouts owing to too little clean energy.

Yes, this is a big one.

Natural gas and coal prices in Europe and Asia just hit their highest levels on record, oil prices in America hit a seven-year high and U.S. gasoline prices are up $1 a gallon from last year. If this winter is as bad as some experts predict — with some in the poor and middle classes unable to heat their homes — I fear we’ll see a populist backlash to the whole climate/green movement. You can already smell that coming in Britain.

I am a fan of the financial newsletter Blain’s Morning Porridge, written by a smart, irreverent market strategist in London, Bill Blain. Last Thursday he bluntly summed up the energy situation for the U.K. and Europe this way:

'This winter — people are going to die of cold. As the price of energy goes higher, the costs will fall disproportionately upon the poorest in society. Income inequalities will be dramatically exposed as the most vulnerable in society face a stark choice: heat or eat. … This winter the U.K. is likely to be on its knees, begging energy from wherever it’s available. Europe will be in as much trouble. The Middle East will be charging whatever they can get away with, and the capacity to deliver is limited. … And Vladimir Putin can’t wait. … He will invite each European leader to plead their case individually, menacingly asking each leader why he should open the gas taps to their nation specifically. … Make no mistake, this winter is going to be shocking. Be aware.'

How did we get here? In truth, it’s a good-news-bad-news story.

The good news is that every major economy has signed onto reducing its carbon footprint by phasing out dirtier fuels like coal to heat homes and to power industries. The bad news is that most nations are doing it in totally uncoordinated ways, from the top down, and before the market has produced sufficient clean renewables like wind, solar and hydro.

If you don’t have enough renewables but you want to go green, the next best thing is natural gas, which emits about half as much C0₂ as coal (as long as methane is not released in the extraction process). But there is not enough of this transition fuel to go around. So, everyone is scrambling to get more, which is why the European Union’s biggest pipeline gas supplier — Russia — is now in the catbird seat and prices are skyrocketing along with blackouts.

As Bloomberg Businessweek reported on Sept. 27, when it comes to natural gas, “inventories at European storage facilities are at historically low levels for this time of year. Pipeline flows from Russia and Norway have been limited. That’s worrying as calmer weather has reduced output from wind turbines, while Europe’s aging nuclear plants are being phased out or are more prone to outages — making gas even more necessary. No wonder European gas prices surged by almost 500 percent in the past year and are trading near record.”

But it’s not just Europe. This energy crunch could pinch ceramics, steel, aluminum, glass and cement suppliers in China, the story added, while it presents households in Brazil with eye-popping power bills because low river water flows have slashed hydropower output. And pandemic-related supply chain problems for coal are making the problem worse.

But how did the bad-news side of this story emerge so fast?

Blame Covid-19. First, the pandemic erupted and signaled to every major economy that we were headed for a deep recession. This sent prices of all kinds of commodities, including oil and gas, into downward spirals.

This, in turn, led banks to choke off investment in new natural gas capacity and crude wells after seven years of already declining investments in these hydrocarbons because of lousy returns.

But the economy snapped back — thanks to government stimulus programs — far faster than anticipated. And so, too, did demand for energy. But this industry does not ramp up quickly. So, there was not enough natural gas, let alone renewables, to fill in the gap.

America has enough oil and natural gas to meet its own needs for now, but its ability to export liquefied natural gas to help others is limited, especially when every utility in Europe and Asia is trying to meet newly minted environmental, social and governance standards for clean energy and therefore is desperate to import natural gas.

When every country jumps in at once, the price goes crazy. Or the lights go out.

Don’t get me wrong. I am as green as ever. But I’m not a nice green. I am a mean green. Achieving the scale of clean energy that we need requires not only wind, solar and hydro, but also a carbon tax in every major industrial economy, nuclear power and natural gas as a bridge. If you oppose all those, you’re not serious about what scientists tell us needs to be done right now — put in place enough noncarbon-emitting fuels to manage the destructive aspects of climate change that have become unavoidable, so we can avoid those that would be unmanageable.

Sadly, in an overreaction to the Fukushima nuclear accident, Germany decided in 2011 to phase out all of its nuclear power by 2022 — nuclear power stations that in the year 2000 generated 29.5 percent of Germany’s power generation mix. All of that has to be replaced by wind, solar, hydro and natural gas, and there is just not enough now.

As Bill Gates points out in his smart book “How to Avoid a Climate Disaster,” the only way to reach our climate targets is to shift production of all the big heavy industries, like steel, cement and automobiles, as well as how we heat our homes and power our cars, to electricity generated from clean energy. Safe and affordable nuclear power has to be part of our mix because, Gates argues, “it is the only carbon-free, scalable energy source that’s available 24 hours a day.”

Meanwhile, though, this energy crisis is coinciding with the stalemate in the talks between the U.S. and Iran about restoring the nuclear deal that Donald Trump recklessly tore up in 2018 — without any alternative plan to curb Iran’s nuclear program. To pressure us, Iran has resumed enriching uranium to levels such that U.S. officials now believe it could be only a few months, or less, away from having enough fissile material for a single bomb.

It would take much longer for Iran to build a warhead and delivery system, but some U.S. officials believe that Iran just wants to make itself a threshold nuclear power, like Japan, where it would stay just a few turns of the screw away from actually having a bomb. This would give it all the deterrence it needs. Both Israel and America have vowed not to let Iran get that close to the doorstep of a nuclear weapon. Alas, we are entering crunchtime.

But what if the U.S. or Israel feels it has to strike Iran’s nuclear program in the middle of what could be the worst energy winter since 1973? And what if Iran responds by firing at U.S. or Western oil tankers in the Persian Gulf, where Qatar, the world’s largest exporter of liquefied natural gas, resides? Oil and gas prices will go into the stratosphere. So, Iran suddenly has new leverage: Hit us and you bankrupt the world.

If I can figure that out, the Iranians can.

Little darling — it’s gonna be a long, cold, crazy winter."

[cradleandshoot]

Wasn't sure where to put this (or put it at all given the disinclination to read from "lefty" sources). But this is an interesting and alarming piece, IMO:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/opin ... clear.html

"Every so often the tectonic geopolitical plates that hold up the world economy suddenly shift in ways that can rattle and destabilize everything on the surface. That’s happening right now in the energy sphere.

Several forces are coming together that could make Vladimir Putin the king of Europe, enable Iran to thumb its nose at America and build an atomic bomb, and disrupt European power markets enough that the upcoming U.N. climate conference in Glasgow could suffer blackouts owing to too little clean energy.

Yes, this is a big one.

Natural gas and coal prices in Europe and Asia just hit their highest levels on record, oil prices in America hit a seven-year high and U.S. gasoline prices are up $1 a gallon from last year. If this winter is as bad as some experts predict — with some in the poor and middle classes unable to heat their homes — I fear we’ll see a populist backlash to the whole climate/green movement. You can already smell that coming in Britain.

I am a fan of the financial newsletter Blain’s Morning Porridge, written by a smart, irreverent market strategist in London, Bill Blain. Last Thursday he bluntly summed up the energy situation for the U.K. and Europe this way:

'This winter — people are going to die of cold. As the price of energy goes higher, the costs will fall disproportionately upon the poorest in society. Income inequalities will be dramatically exposed as the most vulnerable in society face a stark choice: heat or eat. … This winter the U.K. is likely to be on its knees, begging energy from wherever it’s available. Europe will be in as much trouble. The Middle East will be charging whatever they can get away with, and the capacity to deliver is limited. … And Vladimir Putin can’t wait. … He will invite each European leader to plead their case individually, menacingly asking each leader why he should open the gas taps to their nation specifically. … Make no mistake, this winter is going to be shocking. Be aware.'

How did we get here? In truth, it’s a good-news-bad-news story.

The good news is that every major economy has signed onto reducing its carbon footprint by phasing out dirtier fuels like coal to heat homes and to power industries. The bad news is that most nations are doing it in totally uncoordinated ways, from the top down, and before the market has produced sufficient clean renewables like wind, solar and hydro.

If you don’t have enough renewables but you want to go green, the next best thing is natural gas, which emits about half as much C0₂ as coal (as long as methane is not released in the extraction process). But there is not enough of this transition fuel to go around. So, everyone is scrambling to get more, which is why the European Union’s biggest pipeline gas supplier — Russia — is now in the catbird seat and prices are skyrocketing along with blackouts.

As Bloomberg Businessweek reported on Sept. 27, when it comes to natural gas, “inventories at European storage facilities are at historically low levels for this time of year. Pipeline flows from Russia and Norway have been limited. That’s worrying as calmer weather has reduced output from wind turbines, while Europe’s aging nuclear plants are being phased out or are more prone to outages — making gas even more necessary. No wonder European gas prices surged by almost 500 percent in the past year and are trading near record.”

But it’s not just Europe. This energy crunch could pinch ceramics, steel, aluminum, glass and cement suppliers in China, the story added, while it presents households in Brazil with eye-popping power bills because low river water flows have slashed hydropower output. And pandemic-related supply chain problems for coal are making the problem worse.

But how did the bad-news side of this story emerge so fast?

Blame Covid-19. First, the pandemic erupted and signaled to every major economy that we were headed for a deep recession. This sent prices of all kinds of commodities, including oil and gas, into downward spirals.

This, in turn, led banks to choke off investment in new natural gas capacity and crude wells after seven years of already declining investments in these hydrocarbons because of lousy returns.

But the economy snapped back — thanks to government stimulus programs — far faster than anticipated. And so, too, did demand for energy. But this industry does not ramp up quickly. So, there was not enough natural gas, let alone renewables, to fill in the gap.

America has enough oil and natural gas to meet its own needs for now, but its ability to export liquefied natural gas to help others is limited, especially when every utility in Europe and Asia is trying to meet newly minted environmental, social and governance standards for clean energy and therefore is desperate to import natural gas.

When every country jumps in at once, the price goes crazy. Or the lights go out.

Don’t get me wrong. I am as green as ever. But I’m not a nice green. I am a mean green. Achieving the scale of clean energy that we need requires not only wind, solar and hydro, but also a carbon tax in every major industrial economy, nuclear power and natural gas as a bridge. If you oppose all those, you’re not serious about what scientists tell us needs to be done right now — put in place enough noncarbon-emitting fuels to manage the destructive aspects of climate change that have become unavoidable, so we can avoid those that would be unmanageable.

Sadly, in an overreaction to the Fukushima nuclear accident, Germany decided in 2011 to phase out all of its nuclear power by 2022 — nuclear power stations that in the year 2000 generated 29.5 percent of Germany’s power generation mix. All of that has to be replaced by wind, solar, hydro and natural gas, and there is just not enough now.

As Bill Gates points out in his smart book “How to Avoid a Climate Disaster,” the only way to reach our climate targets is to shift production of all the big heavy industries, like steel, cement and automobiles, as well as how we heat our homes and power our cars, to electricity generated from clean energy. Safe and affordable nuclear power has to be part of our mix because, Gates argues, “it is the only carbon-free, scalable energy source that’s available 24 hours a day.”

Meanwhile, though, this energy crisis is coinciding with the stalemate in the talks between the U.S. and Iran about restoring the nuclear deal that Donald Trump recklessly tore up in 2018 — without any alternative plan to curb Iran’s nuclear program. To pressure us, Iran has resumed enriching uranium to levels such that U.S. officials now believe it could be only a few months, or less, away from having enough fissile material for a single bomb.

It would take much longer for Iran to build a warhead and delivery system, but some U.S. officials believe that Iran just wants to make itself a threshold nuclear power, like Japan, where it would stay just a few turns of the screw away from actually having a bomb. This would give it all the deterrence it needs. Both Israel and America have vowed not to let Iran get that close to the doorstep of a nuclear weapon. Alas, we are entering crunchtime.

But what if the U.S. or Israel feels it has to strike Iran’s nuclear program in the middle of what could be the worst energy winter since 1973? And what if Iran responds by firing at U.S. or Western oil tankers in the Persian Gulf, where Qatar, the world’s largest exporter of liquefied natural gas, resides? Oil and gas prices will go into the stratosphere. So, Iran suddenly has new leverage: Hit us and you bankrupt the world.

If I can figure that out, the Iranians can.

Little darling — it’s gonna be a long, cold, crazy winter."

I don't know about the rest of the world, but who the hell in the US of A heats their house with coal? I know some people that do it with wood burning stoves.

[Farfromgeneva]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

Also Ian...

If the debt ceiling is breached, the economy plunges into a deep recession, Biden is discredited, Republicans win supermajorities, and the light of democracy goes out in the United States -- possibly forever.

But I'm sure Dems have a good reason to delay fixing this problem.

and another:
Jesus FXXXing Christ this is reckless.

Senate Dems are literally betting the world economy -- and the future of democracy -- on whether McConnell won't gleefully plunge the US into a recession and let Biden take the blame for it.

Just pass the damn reconciliation bill!

It’s funny because the ones blaming it all on the republicans have it only partially correct. Watching the circus from last Sunday and the leftist wing of the democrats (progressive is such a bogus term they’ve appropriated for marketing purposes) and it’s clear they’re fighting for the sake of fighting and not legislating as well calling people in their party Republicans in a pejorative manner and Pelosi not following through with her commitment to her own democratic problem solver caucus.

Sorta feels like a JV version of the cannabilization that has already occurred in the Republican Party which would be par for the course as they’ve whine for my lifetime about what the republicans have done only to adopt the same practices 5-10yrs later over and over again. Not taats, so please stay away from this trips, but I can think of heroes examples from using reconciliation in abusive ways to the money machine of pacs.

My prediction.....Dems blow up the filibuster on a carve out for debt ceiling. Both Manchin and Sinema go for it and Veep casts the deciding vote. If they are smart, the will raise it so they don't have to deal with it until after the 2022 mid-terms at the earliest.

And then they whine when republicans do the same in a few years and round and round we go.

[youthathletics]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

Also Ian...

If the debt ceiling is breached, the economy plunges into a deep recession, Biden is discredited, Republicans win supermajorities, and the light of democracy goes out in the United States -- possibly forever.

But I'm sure Dems have a good reason to delay fixing this problem.

and another:
Jesus FXXXing Christ this is reckless.

Senate Dems are literally betting the world economy -- and the future of democracy -- on whether McConnell won't gleefully plunge the US into a recession and let Biden take the blame for it.

Just pass the damn reconciliation bill!

It’s funny because the ones blaming it all on the republicans have it only partially correct. Watching the circus from last Sunday and the leftist wing of the democrats (progressive is such a bogus term they’ve appropriated for marketing purposes) and it’s clear they’re fighting for the sake of fighting and not legislating as well calling people in their party Republicans in a pejorative manner and Pelosi not following through with her commitment to her own democratic problem solver caucus.

Sorta feels like a JV version of the cannabilization that has already occurred in the Republican Party which would be par for the course as they’ve whine for my lifetime about what the republicans have done only to adopt the same practices 5-10yrs later over and over again. Not taats, so please stay away from this trips, but I can think of heroes examples from using reconciliation in abusive ways to the money machine of pacs.

My prediction.....Dems blow up the filibuster on a carve out for debt ceiling. Both Manchin and Sinema go for it and Veep casts the deciding vote. If they are smart, the will raise it so they don't have to deal with it until after the 2022 mid-terms at the earliest.

And then they whine when republicans do the same in a few years and round and round we go.

too late....but yes, round and round we go.
Dirty Harry Reid paved the way with the filibuster, dems love to trip over their own dck...then when R's used it they complained.

"To imitate someone is to pay the person a genuine compliment — often an unintended compliment."

[RedFromMI]

If the Dems are smart they deal with the problem by taking it away permanently - either make the ceiling high enough to render it moot, or make the ceiling scale with the authorized budget needs...

[Farfromgeneva]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

Also Ian...

If the debt ceiling is breached, the economy plunges into a deep recession, Biden is discredited, Republicans win supermajorities, and the light of democracy goes out in the United States -- possibly forever.

But I'm sure Dems have a good reason to delay fixing this problem.

and another:
Jesus FXXXing Christ this is reckless.

Senate Dems are literally betting the world economy -- and the future of democracy -- on whether McConnell won't gleefully plunge the US into a recession and let Biden take the blame for it.

Just pass the damn reconciliation bill!

It’s funny because the ones blaming it all on the republicans have it only partially correct. Watching the circus from last Sunday and the leftist wing of the democrats (progressive is such a bogus term they’ve appropriated for marketing purposes) and it’s clear they’re fighting for the sake of fighting and not legislating as well calling people in their party Republicans in a pejorative manner and Pelosi not following through with her commitment to her own democratic problem solver caucus.

Sorta feels like a JV version of the cannabilization that has already occurred in the Republican Party which would be par for the course as they’ve whine for my lifetime about what the republicans have done only to adopt the same practices 5-10yrs later over and over again. Not taats, so please stay away from this trips, but I can think of heroes examples from using reconciliation in abusive ways to the money machine of pacs.

My prediction.....Dems blow up the filibuster on a carve out for debt ceiling. Both Manchin and Sinema go for it and Veep casts the deciding vote. If they are smart, the will raise it so they don't have to deal with it until after the 2022 mid-terms at the earliest.

And then they whine when republicans do the same in a few years and round and round we go.

too late....but yes, round and round we go.
Dirty Harry Reid paved the way with the filibuster, dems love to trip over their own dck...then when R's used it they complained.

"To imitate someone is to pay the person a genuine compliment — often an unintended compliment."

I know that’s basically the ACA playbook.

I just think we’re seeing the beginning of the Democrat populist implosion-will be funny to see their version of trump-Alec Baldwin?

[Farfromgeneva]

If the Dems are smart they deal with the problem by taking it away permanently - either make the ceiling high enough to render it moot, or make the ceiling scale with the authorized budget needs...

Just because the republicans have become dumb doesn’t make the Dems smart.

Warren is a one truck pony still talking about the crisis 12yrs ago-and fighting

Bernie-old Jewish hippy still fighting wars from Vietnam

Squad ladies ex Talib-fighting anyone whi doesn’t agree exactly with them like a millenial/xennial

Schumer/Pelosi-fighting down days in the market for their pocketbook

Mayor Pete is where it’s at but they stuck him in transportation

[youthathletics]

Or this from Ian Millhiser on Twitter a few minutes ago:

Imagine there are two political parties. The first party is playing a game called "let's randomly fire machine guns into the air." The other party has the power to take these guns away from the first party, but refuses to do so.

That's the debt ceiling fight in a nutshell.

Also Ian...

If the debt ceiling is breached, the economy plunges into a deep recession, Biden is discredited, Republicans win supermajorities, and the light of democracy goes out in the United States -- possibly forever.

But I'm sure Dems have a good reason to delay fixing this problem.

and another:
Jesus FXXXing Christ this is reckless.

Senate Dems are literally betting the world economy -- and the future of democracy -- on whether McConnell won't gleefully plunge the US into a recession and let Biden take the blame for it.

Just pass the damn reconciliation bill!

It’s funny because the ones blaming it all on the republicans have it only partially correct. Watching the circus from last Sunday and the leftist wing of the democrats (progressive is such a bogus term they’ve appropriated for marketing purposes) and it’s clear they’re fighting for the sake of fighting and not legislating as well calling people in their party Republicans in a pejorative manner and Pelosi not following through with her commitment to her own democratic problem solver caucus.

Sorta feels like a JV version of the cannabilization that has already occurred in the Republican Party which would be par for the course as they’ve whine for my lifetime about what the republicans have done only to adopt the same practices 5-10yrs later over and over again. Not taats, so please stay away from this trips, but I can think of heroes examples from using reconciliation in abusive ways to the money machine of pacs.

My prediction.....Dems blow up the filibuster on a carve out for debt ceiling. Both Manchin and Sinema go for it and Veep casts the deciding vote. If they are smart, the will raise it so they don't have to deal with it until after the 2022 mid-terms at the earliest.

And then they whine when republicans do the same in a few years and round and round we go.

too late....but yes, round and round we go.
Dirty Harry Reid paved the way with the filibuster, dems love to trip over their own dck...then when R's used it they complained.

"To imitate someone is to pay the person a genuine compliment — often an unintended compliment."

I know that’s basically the ACA playbook.

I just think we’re seeing the beginning of the Democrat populist implosion-will be funny to see their version of trump-Alec Baldwin?

You can certainly sense that they are trying to play and then pander to the multiple sandboxes of their side...in the end they will likely lose many of those independents. For the sake of the party, I think they should tell the that fringe left to GTFOH, and move back center.

[MDlaxfan76]

If the Dems are smart they deal with the problem by taking it away permanently - either make the ceiling high enough to render it moot, or make the ceiling scale with the authorized budget needs...

Just because the republicans have become dumb doesn’t make the Dems smart.

Warren is a one truck pony still talking about the crisis 12yrs ago-and fighting

Bernie-old Jewish hippy still fighting wars from Vietnam

Schumer/Pelosi-fighting down days in the market for their pocketbook

Mayor Pete is where it’s at but they stuck him in transportation

I agree on Mayor Pete, but I wouldn't write off Warren as an ongoing lion of the Senate...she's much too smart.

From the most recent roster, I was rooting for a Klobuchar/Pete combo.
The Dems are fundamentally right that they need to deliver tangible benefits of their leadership to the rural, factory town, working class voters that migrated to Trumpism.

But I think the Dems writ large underestimate how toxic those folks find the big city, coastal elite values the rest of the party espouses. The social media networks and bi-modal media world have amplified enormously this sense of estrangement, fostered by some truly evil con artists and anti-democracy forces, but this estrangement is a reality right now.

So, that makes the delivery (and sale) of tangible difference in the lives of these folks all the more imperative...fast. Else, we really could see the anti-democracy forces take more absolute control and create even more strife. We think it's ugly now?