2024

[youthathletics]

Did you catch any of the speech by Biden, which was held up for two minutes of chanting "we love you Joe" and "thank you Joe." Did you not understand that the trajectory of the convention is a baton pass from the past generation to the new? Or are you still working, working, working with your algorithmic friends to elect a moron who believe the medals he gave Rush and a big donor mean more than a CMoH?

Boycott stupid troll garbage indeed.

Watched it this morning....he did a great job fluffing. I really like when when through shade at BHO when he said "where the hell'd we say we'd never lead the world in manufacturing". Not sure were he came up with the US having the best education system in the world...hyperbole, we rank near 20th...while saying r's and trump can't read or think very well......the kind of humor you enjoy and encourage to put down others. Teachers are not getting raises, at least not in our area; actually, cuts are being made.

I do believe him when he says everyone can do well.....does that mean we can now put to rest the blame game that certain demographics are at a disadvantage and the problems are their very own doing?

Is America losing, if our education system has slipped to #16, and how Trump was working to bring back manufacturing, when others were saying it is dead? You can see how division plays a role on both sides....but my algorithm .

More half truths and scare tactics about the highest murder rate under Trump....this was fact checked back in June, and ruled half truth.

Sigh. So, we can jettison the ridiculous nonsense about a "coup," right?

coup? It's no wonder you fly off the handle so easily, using a term like that when unwarranted.

What the heck

[Seacoaster(1)]

Did you catch any of the speech by Biden, which was held up for two minutes of chanting "we love you Joe" and "thank you Joe." Did you not understand that the trajectory of the convention is a baton pass from the past generation to the new? Or are you still working, working, working with your algorithmic friends to elect a moron who believe the medals he gave Rush and a big donor mean more than a CMoH?

Boycott stupid troll garbage indeed.

Watched it this morning....he did a great job fluffing. I really like when when through shade at BHO when he said "where the hell'd we say we'd never lead the world in manufacturing". Not sure were he came up with the US having the best education system in the world...hyperbole, we rank near 20th...while saying r's and trump can't read or think very well......the kind of humor you enjoy and encourage to put down others. Teachers are not getting raises, at least not in our area; actually, cuts are being made.

I do believe him when he says everyone can do well.....does that mean we can now put to rest the blame game that certain demographics are at a disadvantage and the problems are their very own doing?

Is America losing, if our education system has slipped to #16, and how Trump was working to bring back manufacturing, when others were saying it is dead? You can see how division plays a role on both sides....but my algorithm .

More half truths and scare tactics about the highest murder rate under Trump....this was fact checked back in June, and ruled half truth.

Sigh. So, we can jettison the ridiculous nonsense about a "coup," right?

coup? It's no wonder you fly off the handle so easily, using a term like that when unwarranted.

What the heck

Well, your Orange Prophet calls it a "coup," so I figured you were all in on that silliness too. Nice to see you are sobering up.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Thieves.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... structure/

"Republican vice-presidential nominee JD Vance has accused his Democratic counterpart of “stolen valor,” a term that typically refers to lying about a military service record.

But the actual perpetrators of “stolen valor” in this election are Vance and his party — if not in the military context, then at least in the public service one. Republican politicians have repeatedly claimed credit for valiant actions they didn’t take, pro-family legislation they didn’t support and other popular policies they’re trying to repeal.

For instance, as Democrats celebrated the Inflation Reduction Act’s two-year anniversary last week, Republicans, who unanimously voted against the law in 2022, condemned it and pledged to claw it back. (They’ve already voted a couple dozen times to repeal various portions of it.)

But when it comes to the projects the law subsidized, these same Republicans are big cheerleaders — both for the projects and their own (imagined) role in enabling them.

Most major IRA-funded projects are in Republican-held districts, so the list of triumphs to seize responsibility for is extensive. House Majority Leader Steve Scalise (La.) has puffed up wind energy investments in his state. Rep. Nancy Mace (S.C.) has likewise trumpeted an electric vehicle plant and an electric regional transit hub. Rep. Andy Biggs (Ariz.) touted a high-tech battery manufacturing facility. And Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.), who has called global warming “healthy,” has since cheered a solar manufacturing project in her district.

This is hardly the only initiative Republican lawmakers have bogarted credit for despite their efforts to stop it. Last fall, House Speaker Mike Johnson (La.) cheered the expansion of Florida’s Sarasota airport, which he toured with Rep. Vern Buchanan (R-Fla.). That project received at least $16 million from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. While some Republicans supported this law, both men voted against it.

Similar examples abound for Republicans who voted against the Chips and Science Act.

Vance was not yet in the Senate when any of these blockbuster bills were enacted. When he ran for office, though, he bashed the infrastructure law as “a total disaster for our country.” He has since appeared to take credit for its funding for the Great Lakes as one of his top “accomplishments” in the Senate. (Maybe he was talking about another Great Lakes bill he is co-sponsoring? That legislation might one day count as a Vance accomplishment, but it has yet to receive a floor vote. A Vance spokesperson did not respond to questions about which bill he was taking credit for.)

More recently, Vance spent the past month defending his “childless cat ladies” remarks by explaining he simply meant Republicans are more devoted to family-friendly policies than Democrats are. Which family-friendly policies should Republicans be so proud of, you ask? Oh, you know: the ones championed and passed by Democrats.

For instance, Vance often says he’s been fighting to expand the child tax credit. But earlier this month, when the Senate voted on a bill to do that, Vance couldn’t be bothered to show up. His Republican colleagues blocked the bill from advancing.

Similarly, in 2021, not a single Republican voted for President Joe Biden’s temporary expansion of the tax credit, which cut child poverty in half.

The other effort Vance has been citing as emblematic of his “pro-family” agenda: legislation to eliminate surprise, out-of-network medical bills.

“We got these ridiculous surprise medical billings from the hospital because we had chosen an out of network provider, of course, at this most stressful of all imaginable moments,” he recounted on ABC’s Face the Nation last week, when talking about the birth of his second child. “I’ve actually introduced legislation to stop moms and dads from having to go through those surprise medical billings.” He made similar claims about this legislation on CNN and CBS.

When I first heard these comments, I assumed he was referring to the No Surprises Act, a statute that limited surprise bills from out-of-network providers at otherwise in-network medical settings. Then I realized this (bipartisan) bill was signed into law in 2020, two years before Vance was elected to the Senate.

Unable to find other legislation he sponsored on this issue, I contacted Vance’s Senate office to ask which bill he was referring to. His spokesperson declined to speak on the record or give me the bill number for whatever legislation Vance was citing. Instead, I was told to read a Politico article that mentions a bill he sponsored on a different issue (related to expanding the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993) as well as another bill that’s at least on the relevant subject, but that he merely considered sponsoring. As my Post colleagues reported, Vance cut off talks for that second bill when he began auditioning for Donald Trump’s VP.

To be fair, Vance has not stolen all the undue credit for himself. He’s also praised Trump for things Trump didn’t do. For instance, Vance credited Trump for a recent prisoner swap that, ahem, President Joe Biden negotiated. And Trump himself is of course the master of laying claim to other presidents’ valorous and public-spirited achievements.

You know what they say: impersonation is the highest form of flattery."

[Typical Lax Dad]

[a fan]

After 24 years he might have owed the soldiers that served under him something? Three of them came back from the deployment in flag draped coffins at Dover. No word if their retired SM was there to greet them when they came back home.

That's great.

Now you're on the hook for Vance, Cradle. Lets hear you give it to him. He's an EASY target. Should take you 20-34 seconds to go after him.

What the hell are you talking about ? Too many fumes in the distillery today? What criticism of Vances career as a Marine is up for criticism?

Simple: if you're going to rip Walz for....your words "owed the soldier that served under him something"....after 24.....TWENTY FOUR....years of service?

How the heck do you give Vance a pass for just serving 4 years?

You have two choices here, Cradle:

1. thank both men for their service, and walk away

2. pick them apart for things like "not serving long enough and abandoning those they left behind", or for not telling people in EVERY speech they mention their service that they didn't fight in combat.


Which one do you choose? You're trying for a third option where you rip Walz, and leave Vance alone. Sorry, that's not how logic words. That's how partisans work.

My thoughts also have to take this into consideration. I served in the regular army. The NCOs that led us were career army often referred to as lifers. If you were a sergeant major in the 82nd Airborne chances are you had 2 or 3 tours of duty in Vietnam under your belt. You probably had a purple with 2 or 3 clusters. You likely
had been awarded silver/bronze star. You wore a CIB on your fatigues along with master blasters and probably Canadian or German jump wings along with air assault wings and almost certainly you had a ranger tab above your airborne tab. The point being a sergeant major in an elite airporne unit was a much different cat than a sergeant major in a National Guard unit. That is not disrespectful towards the NGs of the world but they were called weekend warriors for a reason. It wasn't their career it was a part time job.

Yeah, but that was during Vietnam.

Neither Vance nor Walz were in combat, Cradle. If you apply that to your above paragraph, BOTH Vance and Walz were weekend warriors.

But again, this runs completely counter to what 2badknees taught me, remember? These folks die in training all the time, every year. So from 2badknees' view? BOTH Vance and Walz were in danger.

But at no point do you get to throw stones at one, and not the other, sorry. THAT is what I'm reacting to here.

[MDlaxfan76]

youth,

I think taking exception to elements of Biden's assertions is fair, but only if one is capable of admitting that the opposition's candidate provides a daily barrage of outright lies. On purpose., not close, not hyperbole, not arguable, just outright, flat-out lies.

When you do that consistently, then the critique of specifics in Biden's speech have some credibility.

But you don't.

My take?
Biden showed to me again why I voted for him in 2020 and would have voted for him again in 2024 but also why I'm relieved that Harris is the candidate instead.

While I believe his good intentions and heartfelt aspects of sincere patriotism and empathy, I simply don't think he brings the kind of energetic and joyful call to a better future that the Harris campaign has so well captured in so many ways right out of the gate.

And I think our country needs to turn the page on the incredible divisiveness that Trump so exploited, and indeed led and exacerbated, that has plagued the nation. Biden signals that angry fight rather than a brighter future, much as he clearly wants to claim legit credit for moving the country forward at a terrible time in our history. To me, he tries too hard to claim credit and overreaches.

I don't think we need to blame only one 'side' for this, but there's nevertheless no question in my mind that Obama's call for unity, not red and blue, was the right path (though I voted for McCain and Romney) and there's no question in my mind that his being elected along with the adoption of gay marriage blew the minds of a large segment of our population in ways that continue to reverberate. And Trump exploited the heck out of it.

I see the Harris campaign as a huge flip of the script, adopting a pro-America, openly patriotic, dramatically optimistic and positive vision for the future whereas Trump doubles and triples down, repeatedly, on calling America "a nation in decline, a failed nation"...he calls that "a beautiful phrase".

Stark contrast.

Harris is offering a combination of Reagan and Obama belief in America, whereas Trump's proffer, once novel and entertaining to those in shock at a black man in the WH and gay marriage, a nation changing in demography, has become whiny and shrill, small and close minded, sexist, misogynistic and bigoted, a mash-up of Buchanan's resentments, John Birchers, the America First fascists of the '30's and the Know Nothings of the 1850's.

Trump's schtick has grown old and tired and ever angrier as he and they increasingly realize how at each turn and policy they represent minority views of America's future. It's freaking them out, having assumed they were running against another representative of the past in Biden and could win against an incumbent with an electorate unsettled by the traumas and after shocks of a worldwide pandemic.

So, last night offered up some really interesting moments in this changing narrative. The tributes to Biden were heartfelt, but the excitement about turning the page was very clear.

The unexpected walkout and short words from Harris were the biggest moment of the night by far. Exceptionally well done.

One of the most interesting speeches, to me, was Steve Kerr's very early in the night. If you haven't seen it, worth a watch, short: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KbnSsLabzY

His ending was off the charts.

AOC showed why she is such a star in the Dem firmament, continuing to grow in her own credibility despite her youth. Super well done. Warnock was another rousing presentation of moral clarity and optimism that is characterizing this effort. His closing was exceptional.

The speakers re reproductive healthcare were very moving and the framing of this issue consistently as 'freedom' is brilliant.

Hillary gave IMO the best speech of her career. I'm not a fan, but she framed her efforts as part of many women, including specific women, through history going forward with women's rights and it felt gracious and correct. She seemed genuinely pleased and excited for Harris and she successfully transferred her considerable political capital to her.

I didn't get a kick out of the union speeches including UAW President, but understand their role. Clyburn is very old and while he made some points, good to get the old done in night one. I was looking forward to James Taylor, who got cut due to length but another old guy...

So, a successful night, albeit too long and late for an east coast audience. Not so bad for midwest and west though.

[OCanada]

Show indie voters what you're all about. Tell them what you think. You've certainly opened eyes here at the forum.

You'll do anything to keep from discussing issues....Trump's Platform thread has zippo posts. You're not even pretending to care.

I know what Trump's platform is, what his policies are, what they were & what he did in his first term, & what he would do in another term.
There's no point in discussing them here. Do you think anyone in this forum will change their mind ?

It doesn't matter. imho = Trump is toast. Even if he changes the way he campaigns, it's too late. He's blown it.
The country wants younger & change. Not enough voters care about policy to make a difference.
Kamala's last minute emergence, Hollywood makeover & MSM coddling will protect her from having to seriously engage on the issues.
She'll just continue to promise stuff she'll never be able to get through Congress. The Congressional elections will determine our future.
Trump has lost the women's vote, the way he criticizes women & due to Roe. He blew GA when he went to Atlanta to settle personal scores.
From here on out, since Biden stepped down, it's all white noise.
I just don't like watching veterans misrepresent & exploit their service for political gain.

Lolol. Sure Jan

[cradleandshoot]

After 24 years he might have owed the soldiers that served under him something? Three of them came back from the deployment in flag draped coffins at Dover. No word if their retired SM was there to greet them when they came back home.

That's great.

Now you're on the hook for Vance, Cradle. Lets hear you give it to him. He's an EASY target. Should take you 20-34 seconds to go after him.

What the hell are you talking about ? Too many fumes in the distillery today? What criticism of Vances career as a Marine is up for criticism?

Simple: if you're going to rip Walz for....your words "owed the soldier that served under him something"....after 24.....TWENTY FOUR....years of service?

How the heck do you give Vance a pass for just serving 4 years?

You have two choices here, Cradle:

1. thank both men for their service, and walk away

2. pick them apart for things like "not serving long enough and abandoning those they left behind", or for not telling people in EVERY speech they mention their service that they didn't fight in combat.


Which one do you choose? You're trying for a third option where you rip Walz, and leave Vance alone. Sorry, that's not how logic words. That's how partisans work.

My thoughts also have to take this into consideration. I served in the regular army. The NCOs that led us were career army often referred to as lifers. If you were a sergeant major in the 82nd Airborne chances are you had 2 or 3 tours of duty in Vietnam under your belt. You probably had a purple with 2 or 3 clusters. You likely
had been awarded silver/bronze star. You wore a CIB on your fatigues along with master blasters and probably Canadian or German jump wings along with air assault wings and almost certainly you had a ranger tab above your airborne tab. The point being a sergeant major in an elite airporne unit was a much different cat than a sergeant major in a National Guard unit. That is not disrespectful towards the NGs of the world but they were called weekend warriors for a reason. It wasn't their career it was a part time job.

Yeah, but that was during Vietnam.

Neither Vance nor Walz were in combat, Cradle. If you apply that to your above paragraph, BOTH Vance and Walz were weekend warriors.

But again, this runs completely counter to what 2badknees taught me, remember? These folks die in training all the time, every year. So from 2badknees' view? BOTH Vance and Walz were in danger.

But at no point do you get to throw stones at one, and not the other, sorry. THAT is what I'm reacting to here.

Huge difference in rank and responsibility my man. Vance was a marine corporal following the orders he was given. The retired SM was responsible for training and motivating his entire battalion of soldiers. The army entrusted him with that job for a number of years. He held that leadership NCO rank long enough to develop relationships with the soldiers he led. What stones do you think I'm throwing my man? Some of his own soldiers he led are the ones throwing the stones. You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of enlisted marine E4 vs NCO National Guard E8. Vance was deployed to Iraq which at that time in its entirety was technically a combat zone. Was Vance receiving hazardous duty pay? I don't know if he was. If that was the case the wind just came out of your sails my man. I was paid hazardous duty pay of 83 dollars a month for jumping out of airplanes. I never served in combat. Hazardous duty is when your life is directly put into harms way. Being deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan your life was being put into harms way. Unless you think anyone deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan ever felt safe and secure at any time during their deployment?

[Kismet]

Show indie voters what you're all about. Tell them what you think. You've certainly opened eyes here at the forum.

You'll do anything to keep from discussing issues....Trump's Platform thread has zippo posts. You're not even pretending to care.

I know what Trump's platform is, what his policies are, what they were & what he did in his first term, & what he would do in another term.
There's no point in discussing them here. Do you think anyone in this forum will change their mind ?

It doesn't matter. imho = Trump is toast. Even if he changes the way he campaigns, it's too late. He's blown it.
The country wants younger & change. Not enough voters care about policy to make a difference.
Kamala's last minute emergence, Hollywood makeover & MSM coddling will protect her from having to seriously engage on the issues.
She'll just continue to promise stuff she'll never be able to get through Congress. The Congressional elections will determine our future.
Trump has lost the women's vote, the way he criticizes women & due to Roe. He blew GA when he went to Atlanta to settle personal scores.
From here on out, since Biden stepped down, it's all white noise.
I just don't like watching veterans misrepresent & exploit their service for political gain.

Lolol. Sure Jan

Saltine will be fine. If his prediction holds he'll be able to b*itch about everything going forward just as he did for 8 years of Obama and 4 for Uncle Joe. Heck he even b*itched about them when Orange Fatso was in the WH.

[OCanada]

That would be the Orange Fatso coward who never did anything to help the military and has a habit of disparaging them. Scum

[cradleandshoot]

After 24 years he might have owed the soldiers that served under him something? Three of them came back from the deployment in flag draped coffins at Dover. No word if their retired SM was there to greet them when they came back home.

That's great.

Now you're on the hook for Vance, Cradle. Lets hear you give it to him. He's an EASY target. Should take you 20-34 seconds to go after him.

What the hell are you talking about ? Too many fumes in the distillery today? What criticism of Vances career as a Marine is up for criticism?

Simple: if you're going to rip Walz for....your words "owed the soldier that served under him something"....after 24.....TWENTY FOUR....years of service?

How the heck do you give Vance a pass for just serving 4 years?

You have two choices here, Cradle:

1. thank both men for their service, and walk away

2. pick them apart for things like "not serving long enough and abandoning those they left behind", or for not telling people in EVERY speech they mention their service that they didn't fight in combat.


Which one do you choose? You're trying for a third option where you rip Walz, and leave Vance alone. Sorry, that's not how logic words. That's how partisans work.

My thoughts also have to take this into consideration. I served in the regular army. The NCOs that led us were career army often referred to as lifers. If you were a sergeant major in the 82nd Airborne chances are you had 2 or 3 tours of duty in Vietnam under your belt. You probably had a purple with 2 or 3 clusters. You likely
had been awarded silver/bronze star. You wore a CIB on your fatigues along with master blasters and probably Canadian or German jump wings along with air assault wings and almost certainly you had a ranger tab above your airborne tab. The point being a sergeant major in an elite airporne unit was a much different cat than a sergeant major in a National Guard unit. That is not disrespectful towards the NGs of the world but they were called weekend warriors for a reason. It wasn't their career it was a part time job.

Yeah, but that was during Vietnam.

Neither Vance nor Walz were in combat, Cradle. If you apply that to your above paragraph, BOTH Vance and Walz were weekend warriors.

But again, this runs completely counter to what 2badknees taught me, remember? These folks die in training all the time, every year. So from 2badknees' view? BOTH Vance and Walz were in danger.

But at no point do you get to throw stones at one, and not the other, sorry. THAT is what I'm reacting to here.

FFS my man... I'm not the one throwing the stones. How many more times do I have to explain that to you. The retired Sergeant Majors soldiers at least some of them are the ones complaining about their SMs decision. Take a swipe at them while your swinging blindly here. For the umpteenth time and please pay attention this time. I've already said I have no issue with the retired Sergeant Majors decision to retire when he did....okay is that clear for you now? What I have said that apparently is causing you a great deal of confusion is this. I understand perfectly why some of his soldiers have a case of the ass at his decision to retire when he did.

[MDlaxfan76]

After 24 years he might have owed the soldiers that served under him something? Three of them came back from the deployment in flag draped coffins at Dover. No word if their retired SM was there to greet them when they came back home.

That's great.

Now you're on the hook for Vance, Cradle. Lets hear you give it to him. He's an EASY target. Should take you 20-34 seconds to go after him.

What the hell are you talking about ? Too many fumes in the distillery today? What criticism of Vances career as a Marine is up for criticism?

Simple: if you're going to rip Walz for....your words "owed the soldier that served under him something"....after 24.....TWENTY FOUR....years of service?

How the heck do you give Vance a pass for just serving 4 years?

You have two choices here, Cradle:

1. thank both men for their service, and walk away

2. pick them apart for things like "not serving long enough and abandoning those they left behind", or for not telling people in EVERY speech they mention their service that they didn't fight in combat.


Which one do you choose? You're trying for a third option where you rip Walz, and leave Vance alone. Sorry, that's not how logic words. That's how partisans work.

My thoughts also have to take this into consideration. I served in the regular army. The NCOs that led us were career army often referred to as lifers. If you were a sergeant major in the 82nd Airborne chances are you had 2 or 3 tours of duty in Vietnam under your belt. You probably had a purple with 2 or 3 clusters. You likely
had been awarded silver/bronze star. You wore a CIB on your fatigues along with master blasters and probably Canadian or German jump wings along with air assault wings and almost certainly you had a ranger tab above your airborne tab. The point being a sergeant major in an elite airporne unit was a much different cat than a sergeant major in a National Guard unit. That is not disrespectful towards the NGs of the world but they were called weekend warriors for a reason. It wasn't their career it was a part time job.

Yeah, but that was during Vietnam.

Neither Vance nor Walz were in combat, Cradle. If you apply that to your above paragraph, BOTH Vance and Walz were weekend warriors.

But again, this runs completely counter to what 2badknees taught me, remember? These folks die in training all the time, every year. So from 2badknees' view? BOTH Vance and Walz were in danger.

But at no point do you get to throw stones at one, and not the other, sorry. THAT is what I'm reacting to here.

Huge difference in rank and responsibility my man. Vance was a marine corporal following the orders he was given. The retired SM was responsible for training and motivating his entire battalion of soldiers. The army entrusted him with that job for a number of years. He held that leadership NCO rank long enough to develop relationships with the soldiers he led. What stones do you think I'm throwing my man? Some of his own soldiers he led are the ones throwing the stones. You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of enlisted marine E4 vs NCO National Guard E8. Vance was deployed to Iraq which at that time in its entirety was technically a combat zone. Was Vance receiving hazardous duty pay? I don't know if he was. If that was the case the wind just came out of your sails my man. I was paid hazardous duty pay of 83 dollars a month for jumping out of airplanes. I never served in combat. Hazardous duty is when your life is directly put into harms way. Being deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan your life was being put into harms way. Unless you think anyone deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan ever felt safe and secure at any time during their deployment?

"a number of years"...

cradle, it's super simple, kindergarten and Sunday school stuff.
If you throw rocks at another kid, expect return fire or worse.

do unto others...glass houses...whatever metaphor.

The accusation that Vance purposely overstates his "combat zone" experience for personal benefit because he fails to clarify each time he mentions serving in Iraq that he never saw combat is wholly to be expected when he's actually accused Walz of "Stolen Valor"... which is blatantly unfair, a clear lie. Return fire.

Both of these guys served the country in ways that most Americans do not. That doesn't make them super special or full of integrity or morality or courage in ways other Americans are not, it merely means they chose to serve, both at a point in their lives where military service was a path for them upward in social mobility. Good for them, good for us all. Neither saw or sought combat, neither had special heroic accomplishments, but both can legitimately claim to have honorably served their country and followed the mission assigned to them. That service deserves thanks, not stones.

The attacks are reprehensible. They are led by Vance who should have had the integrity and decency to reject that approach to competing with the other ticket. Shame on him and anyone who perpetuates those attacks.

Moreover, the hypocrisy is off the charts.

We have a candidate for POTUS who repeatedly lied to avoid military service and who throughout his life sought to exploit others for personal gain, whether economic or sexual or power. This is a man who serves only himself, who has repeatedly broken laws, committed fraud, cheated on each of his wives, and failed his oath of office.

A man who calls fallen soldiers and POWs suckers and losers, who thinks medals he gives to big donors are more valuable than the Medal of Honor given to those who do truly heroic deeds in military service.

And he picks someone who thinks it is appropriate to attack an opponent's 24 years of military service because he decided he could better serve in Congress going forward.

Off the charts hypocrisy.

[Typical Lax Dad]

youth,

I think taking exception to elements of Biden's assertions is fair, but only if one is capable of admitting that the opposition's candidate provides a daily barrage of outright lies. On purpose., not close, not hyperbole, not arguable, just outright, flat-out lies.

When you do that consistently, then the critique of specifics in Biden's speech have some credibility.

But you don't.

My take?
Biden showed to me again why I voted for him in 2020 and would have voted for him again in 2024 but also why I'm relieved that Harris is the candidate instead.

While I believe his good intentions and heartfelt aspects of sincere patriotism and empathy, I simply don't think he brings the kind of energetic and joyful call to a better future that the Harris campaign has so well captured in so many ways right out of the gate.

And I think our country needs to turn the page on the incredible divisiveness that Trump so exploited, and indeed led and exacerbated, that has plagued the nation. Biden signals that angry fight rather than a brighter future, much as he clearly wants to claim legit credit for moving the country forward at a terrible time in our history. To me, he tries too hard to claim credit and overreaches.

I don't think we need to blame only one 'side' for this, but there's nevertheless no question in my mind that Obama's call for unity, not red and blue, was the right path (though I voted for McCain and Romney) and there's no question in my mind that his being elected along with the adoption of gay marriage blew the minds of a large segment of our population in ways that continue to reverberate. And Trump exploited the heck out of it.

I see the Harris campaign as a huge flip of the script, adopting a pro-America, openly patriotic, dramatically optimistic and positive vision for the future whereas Trump doubles and triples down, repeatedly, on calling America "a nation in decline, a failed nation"...he calls that "a beautiful phrase".

Stark contrast.

Harris is offering a combination of Reagan and Obama belief in America, whereas Trump's proffer, once novel and entertaining to those in shock at a black man in the WH and gay marriage, a nation changing in demography, has become whiny and shrill, small and close minded, sexist, misogynistic and bigoted, a mash-up of Buchanan's resentments, John Birchers, the America First fascists of the '30's and the Know Nothings of the 1850's.

Trump's schtick has grown old and tired and ever angrier as he and they increasingly realize how at each turn and policy they represent minority views of America's future. It's freaking them out, having assumed they were running against another representative of the past in Biden and could win against an incumbent with an electorate unsettled by the traumas and after shocks of a worldwide pandemic.

So, last night offered up some really interesting moments in this changing narrative. The tributes to Biden were heartfelt, but the excitement about turning the page was very clear.

The unexpected walkout and short words from Harris were the biggest moment of the night by far. Exceptionally well done.

One of the most interesting speeches, to me, was Steve Kerr's very early in the night. If you haven't seen it, worth a watch, short: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KbnSsLabzY

His ending was off the charts.

AOC showed why she is such a star in the Dem firmament, continuing to grow in her own credibility despite her youth. Super well done. Warnock was another rousing presentation of moral clarity and optimism that is characterizing this effort. His closing was exceptional.

The speakers re reproductive healthcare were very moving and the framing of this issue consistently as 'freedom' is brilliant.

Hillary gave IMO the best speech of her career. I'm not a fan, but she framed her efforts as part of many women, including specific women, through history going forward with women's rights and it felt gracious and correct. She seemed genuinely pleased and excited for Harris and she successfully transferred her considerable political capital to her.

I didn't get a kick out of the union speeches including UAW President, but understand their role. Clyburn is very old and while he made some points, good to get the old done in night one. I was looking forward to James Taylor, who got cut due to length but another old guy...

So, a successful night, albeit too long and late for an east coast audience. Not so bad for midwest and west though.

This is absolutely correct. The message is flat and rehashed. His crowds have been reduced to hard core Trumpers with grievances. It made me think of the 20 something year old kid that I saw at our local Chick-Fil-A. He looked out of place in a Trump Tee Shirt that said "Fcku Your Feelings" and a picture of Trump flipping a double bird. He looked unhappy and out of place. Kind of a chip on his shoulder judging by his interaction with the cashier..... I mentioned to a buddy how the kid just seemed UNHAPPY. He recanted to me a story involving his son that was a basketball / football player in Trump Land. He encountered a rival player that slurred him a number of times. My buddy said, kids at that age are going through a lot of stuff and the kid was just unhappy and looking for someone else to blame for his unhappiness and targeted his son because he had some area fame and he was different.... he said he found out a few years later that the kid committed suicide. It was actually sad and the worst part is politicians like Trump ginning up this kind of vile.

[kramerica.inc]

The spin has already begun. Less than 12 hrs later.

The tributes to Biden were heartfelt. Of course. All those "We Heart Joe!" signs surely make up for how they showed him the door. It was doubly nice of Nancy Pelosi to lead those cheers.

Kamela is the future for democracy, as long as we ignore that we didn't get a chance to elect her in a true primary as our party's nominee.

Kamela will fix all our problems, as long as we ignore that she has overseen those issues and has held office and the ability to act and fix those issues, for the past 3.5 years.

If I'm looking for a positive from last night- I guess it was nice of Ashley to give her father's eulogy and let her know how she feels about him, while he's still with us. Seems like she is over all those issues she mentioned in her diary.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The spin has already begun. Less than 12 hrs later.

The tributes to Biden were heartfelt. Of course. All those "We Heart Joe!" signs surely make up for how they showed him the door. It was doubly nice of Nancy Pelosi to lead those cheers.

Kamela is the future for democracy, as long as we ignore that we didn't get a chance to elect her in a true primary as our party's nominee.

Kamela will fix all our problems, as long as we ignore that she has overseen those issues and has held office and the ability to act and fix those issues, for the past 3.5 years.

If I'm looking for a positive from last night- I guess it was nice of Ashley to give her father's eulogy and let her know how she feels about him, while he's still with us. Seems like she is over all those issues she mentioned in her diary.

Don’t recall you mentioning what Mike Pence oversaw as Veep.

[old salt]

After 24 years he might have owed the soldiers that served under him something? Three of them came back from the deployment in flag draped coffins at Dover. No word if their retired SM was there to greet them when they came back home.

That's great.

Now you're on the hook for Vance, Cradle. Lets hear you give it to him. He's an EASY target. Should take you 20-34 seconds to go after him.

What the hell are you talking about ? Too many fumes in the distillery today? What criticism of Vances career as a Marine is up for criticism?

Simple: if you're going to rip Walz for....your words "owed the soldier that served under him something"....after 24.....TWENTY FOUR....years of service?

How the heck do you give Vance a pass for just serving 4 years?

You have two choices here, Cradle:

1. thank both men for their service, and walk away

2. pick them apart for things like "not serving long enough and abandoning those they left behind", or for not telling people in EVERY speech they mention their service that they didn't fight in combat.


Which one do you choose? You're trying for a third option where you rip Walz, and leave Vance alone. Sorry, that's not how logic words. That's how partisans work.

My thoughts also have to take this into consideration. I served in the regular army. The NCOs that led us were career army often referred to as lifers. If you were a sergeant major in the 82nd Airborne chances are you had 2 or 3 tours of duty in Vietnam under your belt. You probably had a purple with 2 or 3 clusters. You likely
had been awarded silver/bronze star. You wore a CIB on your fatigues along with master blasters and probably Canadian or German jump wings along with air assault wings and almost certainly you had a ranger tab above your airborne tab. The point being a sergeant major in an elite airporne unit was a much different cat than a sergeant major in a National Guard unit. That is not disrespectful towards the NGs of the world but they were called weekend warriors for a reason. It wasn't their career it was a part time job.

Yeah, but that was during Vietnam.

Neither Vance nor Walz were in combat, Cradle. If you apply that to your above paragraph, BOTH Vance and Walz were weekend warriors.

But again, this runs completely counter to what 2badknees taught me, remember? These folks die in training all the time, every year. So from 2badknees' view? BOTH Vance and Walz were in danger.

But at no point do you get to throw stones at one, and not the other, sorry. THAT is what I'm reacting to here.

Huge difference in rank and responsibility my man. Vance was a marine corporal following the orders he was given. The retired SM was responsible for training and motivating his entire battalion of soldiers. The army entrusted him with that job for a number of years. He held that leadership NCO rank long enough to develop relationships with the soldiers he led. What stones do you think I'm throwing my man? Some of his own soldiers he led are the ones throwing the stones. You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of enlisted marine E4 vs NCO National Guard E8. Vance was deployed to Iraq which at that time in its entirety was technically a combat zone. Was Vance receiving hazardous duty pay? I don't know if he was. If that was the case the wind just came out of your sails my man. I was paid hazardous duty pay of 83 dollars a month for jumping out of airplanes. I never served in combat. Hazardous duty is when your life is directly put into harms way. Being deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan your life was being put into harms way. Unless you think anyone deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan ever felt safe and secure at any time during their deployment?

"a number of years"...

cradle, it's super simple, kindergarten and Sunday school stuff.
If you throw rocks at another kid, expect return fire or worse.

do unto others...glass houses...whatever metaphor.

The accusation that Vance purposely overstates his "combat zone" experience for personal benefit because he fails to clarify each time he mentions serving in Iraq that he never saw combat is wholly to be expected when he's actually accused Walz of "Stolen Valor"... which is blatantly unfair, a clear lie. Return fire.

Both of these guys served the country in ways that most Americans do not. That doesn't make them super special or full of integrity or morality or courage in ways other Americans are not, it merely means they chose to serve, both at a point in their lives where military service was a path for them upward in social mobility. Good for them, good for us all. Neither saw or sought combat, neither had special heroic accomplishments, but both can legitimately claim to have honorably served their country and followed the mission assigned to them. That service deserves thanks, not stones.

The attacks are reprehensible. They are led by Vance who should have had the integrity and decency to reject that approach to competing with the other ticket. Shame on him and anyone who perpetuates those attacks.

Moreover, the hypocrisy is off the charts.

We have a candidate for POTUS who repeatedly lied to avoid military service and who throughout his life sought to exploit others for personal gain, whether economic or sexual or power. This is a man who serves only himself, who has repeatedly broken laws, committed fraud, cheated on each of his wives, and failed his oath of office.

A man who calls fallen soldiers and POWs suckers and losers, who thinks medals he gives to big donors are more valuable than the Medal of Honor given to those who do truly heroic deeds in military service.

And he picks someone who thinks it is appropriate to attack an opponent's 24 years of military service because he decided he could better serve in Congress going forward.

Off the charts hypocrisy.

From the time he first became a public figure, in the publication of his book, Vance has taken pains to accurately describe his service in ways that could not be misinterpreted or misrepresented. He has repeatedly said that he did not serve in combat. I've seen no examples of him allowing anyone in his presence to overstate the nature of the risks he encountered. I can't say the same for Walz.

In comparing the service of Walz & Vance, there is one major difference. Vance was never in a leadership position. Walz was in a significant leadership position. That is what made his retirement decision & it's timing so critical -- it's impact on his unit & the soldiers he was to lead. Vance did a good job & performed at a level above what was expected, but he was also easily replaced when his obligated service ended.

Cradle was accurate in his comparison of the nature of Walz's service to Vance's. Walz's 8-9 month active duty deployment to N Italy was the only duty that he served that could be compared to Vance's 4 years of active duty & was nowhere near as risky as Vance's assignment to Al Asad, in Anbar province, at that time. Vance's barracksmate there has tweeted that Al Asad was under rocket attack when Vance arrived. He was at risk fron IED's, snipers & suicide bombers, every time he went outside Al-Asad, into the local community embedded in a civil affairs team. When Walz's former unit deployed to Iraq, they faced those same risks on a daily basis. Walz is now politically savvy in being stoic about his service, & not drawing detailed comparisons of relative risk to Vance's service in Iraq. As cradle described Walz, he was a solid weekend warrior who served part time for 24 years, rose through the ranks to E-8 & deployed for 9 mos on active duty to a very desirable location.

Both served honorably.

[kramerica.inc]

The spin has already begun. Less than 12 hrs later.

The tributes to Biden were heartfelt. Of course. All those "We Heart Joe!" signs surely make up for how they showed him the door. It was doubly nice of Nancy Pelosi to lead those cheers.

Kamela is the future for democracy, as long as we ignore that we didn't get a chance to elect her in a true primary as our party's nominee.

Kamela will fix all our problems, as long as we ignore that she has overseen those issues and has held office and the ability to act and fix those issues, for the past 3.5 years.

If I'm looking for a positive from last night- I guess it was nice of Ashley to give her father's eulogy and let her know how she feels about him, while he's still with us. Seems like she is over all those issues she mentioned in her diary.

Don’t recall you mentioning what Mike Pence oversaw as Veep.

So was Kamala involved the past 3 years- Does she have any executive branch experience?
Or was she not involved, and had no part in the current problems?
Was she Immigration Czar or not?

[Typical Lax Dad]

The spin has already begun. Less than 12 hrs later.

The tributes to Biden were heartfelt. Of course. All those "We Heart Joe!" signs surely make up for how they showed him the door. It was doubly nice of Nancy Pelosi to lead those cheers.

Kamela is the future for democracy, as long as we ignore that we didn't get a chance to elect her in a true primary as our party's nominee.

Kamela will fix all our problems, as long as we ignore that she has overseen those issues and has held office and the ability to act and fix those issues, for the past 3.5 years.

If I'm looking for a positive from last night- I guess it was nice of Ashley to give her father's eulogy and let her know how she feels about him, while he's still with us. Seems like she is over all those issues she mentioned in her diary.

Don’t recall you mentioning what Mike Pence oversaw as Veep.

So was Kamala involved the past 3 years- Does she have any executive branch experience?
Or was she not involved, and had no part in the current problems?
Was she Immigration Czar or not?

List the issues that she “oversaw”.

1. Immigration Czar
2.
3.
4.
5.

https://www.threads.net/@roktgurl/post/ ... T9BuAIm4ww

She did her part. Republicans and Trump let her down.

[a fan]

Huge difference in rank and responsibility my man. Vance was a marine corporal following the orders he was given.

Right. So understand what you're doing now:

1. you're punishing Walz for doing his job SO well that he was promoted. You're telling us that's a BAD thing.

2. which means it follows that Vance wasn't all that great at being a marine, and did the bare minimum of four years of service.

What stones do you think I'm throwing my man?

Telling us that after he served for 24 years, he left his soldiers and in doing so, abandoned them.

Some of his own soldiers he led are the ones throwing the stones.

That's right. Want to take a wild guess as to what Political party they belong to?

And how many years did THEY serve, if they think that 24 years ain't enough...and that if Walz doesn't serve another five years, he's a coward who let his troops down.

This is all crazytown Cradle. Walz should have been thanked for his 24 years, and everyone move the F on. All this is doing is showing America what a POS Trump is...where his campaign is throwing rocks at 24 years of service, while Trump got out of serving during the Draft days.

It's freaking insane, Cradle.

[a fan]

The spin has already begun. Less than 12 hrs later.

The tributes to Biden were heartfelt. Of course. All those "We Heart Joe!" signs surely make up for how they showed him the door. It was doubly nice of Nancy Pelosi to lead those cheers.

Kamela is the future for democracy, as long as we ignore that we didn't get a chance to elect her in a true primary as our party's nominee.

Kamela will fix all our problems, as long as we ignore that she has overseen those issues and has held office and the ability to act and fix those issues, for the past 3.5 years.

If I'm looking for a positive from last night- I guess it was nice of Ashley to give her father's eulogy and let her know how she feels about him, while he's still with us. Seems like she is over all those issues she mentioned in her diary.

Don’t recall you mentioning what Mike Pence oversaw as Veep.

So was Kamala involved the past 3 years- Does she have any executive branch experience?
Or was she not involved, and had no part in the current problems?
Was she Immigration Czar or not?

List the issues that she “oversaw”.

1. Immigration Czar
2.
3.
4.
5.

https://www.threads.net/@roktgurl/post/ ... T9BuAIm4ww

She did her part. Republicans and Trump let her down.

Yep. She's put herself in as in charge of the border. So sure, you can throw stones at her for things not going well there.

But.....

Biden had a fully formed bill in Jan of 2021, ready for the House to get to work on it. They did NOTHING.

Then, just this year, R's and D's got together for a bill that would have pumped badly needed money into our border patrol, the courts, detainment infrastructure, and on and on.

Who killed that Bill, Kram?