LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:52 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:04 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:06 am

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:53 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:52 pmYou're no loss to either as you don't vote for either party.

Neither are you. We vote in a one party state.

Maryland is obviously capable of voting statewide for a Republican. But clearly not MAGA type. Voters like me rejected a MAGA election denier last year for Governor, whereas many Independents and Democrats had supported Hogan.

I’m likely to be a Florida resident by November
, however as we’re in downsizing mode. Florida has seemed dark red , MAGA happy, but that’s not a sure thing, so voters like my wife and me could make a difference. I’m seeing the majority of our community residents who had been Trump voters saying they can’t do it again and quite a few saying they’re going to hold their nose and vote for Biden. Not waste the vote. Too important.

Most of my voting life I’ve been in Democrat stronghold’s Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe in balance so voting Republican was part of that. Now I’ll be in a Republican stronghold and voting Democrat will be my tendency here. But gotta be the better candidate and not a flamethrower.

OS becomes more and more delusional. Hogan just served two terms. MD has had republican Governors, Senators and Representatives az the republican party lost its moral core its been harder to win over independent voters.

I confess that my attitude in 2016 was that Clinton didn't need my vote to overwhelmingly defeat Trump in Maryland and that I could therefore register a 'protest' third party vote safely assured it wouldn't matter to Trump's loss of Maryland.

But that was because Trump was such an obviously disgusting candidate that the usual willingness by Maryland moderate Independents to at least consider a Republican option wasn't there. Not that it's so blue that a Republican can't win...they do win when they are moderates of good character and the alternative isn't otherwise safely moderate and sound of character. Two solid candidates and the state typically goes blue, but it can go Republican if the candidates line up.

In 2020, I was similarly confident that Biden didn't need my vote to win Maryland, but I didn't have the same negative views of him that I did of Clinton, so felt fine about making my first vote of my life for a Dem for President. One time out of 15 cycles of voting. My "protest" was against Trump/MAGA...the more votes overall for Biden was my contribution. Folks like me pulled the lever for that reason.

It will be again.
If in Florida, there's at least a small chance that Biden carries the state...a lot needs to happen between now and then, Trump melt downs, conviction, etc, continued positives in the national economy...but abortion is on the ballot here in November and so that could well be a flash point to energize the Dems and I's and R's who reject the over reach of far right MAGA conservatives. Long shot, but not impossible.

You forget how Democrats in NYS had a love affair with trump for many years. Those Democrat icons never hesitated to cash trumps campaign checks. Why even Bill and Hillary proudly posed smiling with trump at his wedding reception. It sure took a very long for these FLP liberal NYS Democrats to turn on the rat bastard they publicly adored for so long. I suppose they can defend themselves the same way trump would...it wasn't personal it was business. When it comes to trump these NYS Democrats loved him and his money before they realized they hated him.

https://people.com/celebrity/hillary-cl ... ing-photo/

You can see the contempt for trump written all over the queen of evils face. That was waaaaaaaaay back when democrats didn't know who trump was. If only they had watched the apprentice.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:20 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:52 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:04 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:06 am

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:53 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:52 pmYou're no loss to either as you don't vote for either party.

Neither are you. We vote in a one party state.

Maryland is obviously capable of voting statewide for a Republican. But clearly not MAGA type. Voters like me rejected a MAGA election denier last year for Governor, whereas many Independents and Democrats had supported Hogan.

I’m likely to be a Florida resident by November
, however as we’re in downsizing mode. Florida has seemed dark red , MAGA happy, but that’s not a sure thing, so voters like my wife and me could make a difference. I’m seeing the majority of our community residents who had been Trump voters saying they can’t do it again and quite a few saying they’re going to hold their nose and vote for Biden. Not waste the vote. Too important.

Most of my voting life I’ve been in Democrat stronghold’s Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe in balance so voting Republican was part of that. Now I’ll be in a Republican stronghold and voting Democrat will be my tendency here. But gotta be the better candidate and not a flamethrower.

OS becomes more and more delusional. Hogan just served two terms. MD has had republican Governors, Senators and Representatives az the republican party lost its moral core its been harder to win over independent voters.

I confess that my attitude in 2016 was that Clinton didn't need my vote to overwhelmingly defeat Trump in Maryland and that I could therefore register a 'protest' third party vote safely assured it wouldn't matter to Trump's loss of Maryland.

But that was because Trump was such an obviously disgusting candidate that the usual willingness by Maryland moderate Independents to at least consider a Republican option wasn't there. Not that it's so blue that a Republican can't win...they do win when they are moderates of good character and the alternative isn't otherwise safely moderate and sound of character. Two solid candidates and the state typically goes blue, but it can go Republican if the candidates line up.

In 2020, I was similarly confident that Biden didn't need my vote to win Maryland, but I didn't have the same negative views of him that I did of Clinton, so felt fine about making my first vote of my life for a Dem for President. One time out of 15 cycles of voting. My "protest" was against Trump/MAGA...the more votes overall for Biden was my contribution. Folks like me pulled the lever for that reason.

It will be again.
If in Florida, there's at least a small chance that Biden carries the state...a lot needs to happen between now and then, Trump melt downs, conviction, etc, continued positives in the national economy...but abortion is on the ballot here in November and so that could well be a flash point to energize the Dems and I's and R's who reject the over reach of far right MAGA conservatives. Long shot, but not impossible.

You forget how Democrats in NYS had a love affair with trump for many years. Those Democrat icons never hesitated to cash trumps campaign checks. Why even Bill and Hillary proudly posed smiling with trump at his wedding reception. It sure took a very long for these FLP liberal NYS Democrats to turn on the rat bastard they publicly adored for so long. I suppose they can defend themselves the same way trump would...it wasn't personal it was business. When it comes to trump these NYS Democrats loved him and his money before they realized they hated him.

https://people.com/celebrity/hillary-cl ... ing-photo/

You can see the contempt for trump written all over the queen of evils face. That was waaaaaaaaay back when democrats didn't know who trump was. If only they had watched the apprentice.

And this is relevant to this discussion how?
We were discussing the binary aspects of our political system and how our votes, in aggregate, add up differently based on the political demographics of differing states. And how this will potentially play out in 2024.

No one has argued that many politicians, somewhat by the necessities of the process under private funding of elections, don't prostitute themselves to those wishing to curry favor. Most do. All are in that position, few resist, at least not until the obvious repugnance to certain sources either tweaks their own scruples or it becomes a PR problem.

Trump donated and feted those who he thought might help him in some way, often with regard to business, but always to stroke his own ego...he was always about purchasing access to a class of people who otherwise disdained his crassness. In New York that often meant Democrats, but it also covered Republicans like Rudy...however, a Republican like Michael Bloomberg never had any need for the likes of Trump...

And you know my feelings about the Clintons' slippery ethics...

Back to the thread topic, I think the mountain of evidence of wrongdoing of Trump is going to continue to sour those in the middle, and he is going to weekly provide campaign ad fodder aimed at that middle and the turnout against hime. That could put into play even some recent GOP strongholds, though most I'd predict will stay solidly MAGA red until at least one more ignominious loss for MAGA/Trump.

So, the play by MAGA is to convince some people that Biden is just as bad ethically as Trump. You recently parroted that BS. And that's what they want, to blunt those who might otherwise be ready to stick a nail in Trump's political coffin to simply stay away or vote third party rather than cast a Biden vote, holding their nose.

Relevancy is not a guardrail in C&S's world.

Article in the Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -hostages/

"If you want to get retired Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré riled up, ask him about claims that insurrectionists incarcerated for attacking the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021 are “hostages,” as former president Donald Trump says.

“You can publish this,” Honoré starts, signaling a change from not wanting his profanity in print. “That’s total bulls---.” He included Rep. Elise Stefanik (N.Y.), chairwoman of House Republicans, in his disdain for repeating Trump’s “hostage” fiction and a fellow Louisianian, House Speaker Mike Johnson (R), for his pledge to blur rioters’ faces in video of the attack that he plans to release, “because we don’t want them to be … to be charged by the DOJ.”

Honoré isn’t a casual observer of Republican attempts to reframe the insurrection or excuse the insurrectionists, as flag-waving Confederate sympathizers (evident during the Jan. 6 attack) also do with their bogus “Lost Cause” stories about a previous rebellion, the Civil War.

He led the “Task Force 1-6 Capitol Security Review,” commissioned by then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) shortly after the attack led by those who championed the “Big Lie” that Trump won the last presidential election. The review called for the U.S. Capitol Police (USCP) to hire hundreds more officers and bolster its intelligence and communications capabilities, among other improvements.

“You want to see what a … hostage looks like. Look at what’s going on in Gaza,” Honoré thundered. “These people are in jail because they’ve been convicted by a … court. Those who use the word ‘hostage’ should never be in office again.”

Shortly after the insurrection’s third anniversary, Honoré spoke to The Post by Zoom from the porch of his Baton Rouge home, wearing an Army baseball cap and smoking a smelly cigar his wife won’t allow indoors, and then a second time by phone. The 76-year-old, who previously served as Joint Chiefs of Staff vice director of operations and as commander of Joint Task Force Katrina, keeps his military demeanor in retirement and the direct, blunt language that can come with it.

This is an edited transcript of the interview.

Q: Do you have any worries about the state of American democracy?

A: Oh, hell yeah. I spent 37 years, three months and three days defending American democracy. I got a lot to say about this. This is my bottom line. If we lose our democracy, we’ll never get it back. There are people that have become enamored with the authoritarian process. … They’re depending on the repetitive misinformation, these storylines that they’ve been wronged, and it’s all based on a lie that the last election was not a fair election.

Q: How badly shaken was American democracy on Jan. 6?

A: I think it went beyond being shaken. I think it was cracked and it shows the vulnerability of a democracy that is dependent on trust, is dependent on the truth, dependent on the law, that people follow the law. And when you have people that deliberately don’t follow the law, that deliberately don’t tell the truth, and then repeat that in their positions of responsibility, it shows a weakness of a democracy.

Most of the people in our government argue in the truth, argue in the law, argue in the courts, and respect the work of the press. But that is very fragile in a democracy when you get somebody with a few collaborators who can [mess] up a democracy up overnight. You saw that happen on 1-6.

Q: What should be done to strengthen U.S. democracy?

A: We have to take on a full out information campaign to counter the misinformation that’s out there … We have to convince young people that they have to get out and vote because many of them are losing their faith in democracy … We’ve got to attack that with full engagement from everybody, to get people to go vote, because the alternative is we could end up with another Trump or Trump-like MAGA president again. And I think that would be the end of our democracy.

Q: Are you optimistic about the future of the United States?

A: I am optimistic about it, but we’ve got work to do. We can’t be complacent. You pray about it, but you got to move your feet.

Q: Do you think another insurrection could occur?

A: Oh, hell yeah. You know, we’ve had two, the Civil War and this one. It could happen again … People that say the electoral system doesn’t work, the members of Congress, they got elected. They don’t dispute it when they get elected.

Q: How would you sum up the way the government has responded to the events of Jan. 6?

A: I think the government was slow in responding. They [initially] focused on the little fish and not the big fish.

Q: What are the most significant things that have already been done to improve Capitol security?

A: Well, I think they [the Capitol Police] have increased the intelligence flow. They’ve increased their communication capacity and they have done some training on civil disturbance.

Q: What still needs to be done?

A: Hire more officers and pay the officers more."

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:59 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:20 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:52 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:04 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:06 am

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:53 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:52 pmYou're no loss to either as you don't vote for either party.

Neither are you. We vote in a one party state.

Maryland is obviously capable of voting statewide for a Republican. But clearly not MAGA type. Voters like me rejected a MAGA election denier last year for Governor, whereas many Independents and Democrats had supported Hogan.

I’m likely to be a Florida resident by November
, however as we’re in downsizing mode. Florida has seemed dark red , MAGA happy, but that’s not a sure thing, so voters like my wife and me could make a difference. I’m seeing the majority of our community residents who had been Trump voters saying they can’t do it again and quite a few saying they’re going to hold their nose and vote for Biden. Not waste the vote. Too important.

Most of my voting life I’ve been in Democrat stronghold’s Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe in balance so voting Republican was part of that. Now I’ll be in a Republican stronghold and voting Democrat will be my tendency here. But gotta be the better candidate and not a flamethrower.

OS becomes more and more delusional. Hogan just served two terms. MD has had republican Governors, Senators and Representatives az the republican party lost its moral core its been harder to win over independent voters.

I confess that my attitude in 2016 was that Clinton didn't need my vote to overwhelmingly defeat Trump in Maryland and that I could therefore register a 'protest' third party vote safely assured it wouldn't matter to Trump's loss of Maryland.

But that was because Trump was such an obviously disgusting candidate that the usual willingness by Maryland moderate Independents to at least consider a Republican option wasn't there. Not that it's so blue that a Republican can't win...they do win when they are moderates of good character and the alternative isn't otherwise safely moderate and sound of character. Two solid candidates and the state typically goes blue, but it can go Republican if the candidates line up.

In 2020, I was similarly confident that Biden didn't need my vote to win Maryland, but I didn't have the same negative views of him that I did of Clinton, so felt fine about making my first vote of my life for a Dem for President. One time out of 15 cycles of voting. My "protest" was against Trump/MAGA...the more votes overall for Biden was my contribution. Folks like me pulled the lever for that reason.

It will be again.
If in Florida, there's at least a small chance that Biden carries the state...a lot needs to happen between now and then, Trump melt downs, conviction, etc, continued positives in the national economy...but abortion is on the ballot here in November and so that could well be a flash point to energize the Dems and I's and R's who reject the over reach of far right MAGA conservatives. Long shot, but not impossible.

You forget how Democrats in NYS had a love affair with trump for many years. Those Democrat icons never hesitated to cash trumps campaign checks. Why even Bill and Hillary proudly posed smiling with trump at his wedding reception. It sure took a very long for these FLP liberal NYS Democrats to turn on the rat bastard they publicly adored for so long. I suppose they can defend themselves the same way trump would...it wasn't personal it was business. When it comes to trump these NYS Democrats loved him and his money before they realized they hated him.

https://people.com/celebrity/hillary-cl ... ing-photo/

You can see the contempt for trump written all over the queen of evils face. That was waaaaaaaaay back when democrats didn't know who trump was. If only they had watched the apprentice.

And this is relevant to this discussion how?
We were discussing the binary aspects of our political system and how our votes, in aggregate, add up differently based on the political demographics of differing states. And how this will potentially play out in 2024.

No one has argued that many politicians, somewhat by the necessities of the process under private funding of elections, don't prostitute themselves to those wishing to curry favor. Most do. All are in that position, few resist, at least not until the obvious repugnance to certain sources either tweaks their own scruples or it becomes a PR problem.

Trump donated and feted those who he thought might help him in some way, often with regard to business, but always to stroke his own ego...he was always about purchasing access to a class of people who otherwise disdained his crassness. In New York that often meant Democrats, but it also covered Republicans like Rudy...however, a Republican like Michael Bloomberg never had any need for the likes of Trump...

And you know my feelings about the Clintons' slippery ethics...

Back to the thread topic, I think the mountain of evidence of wrongdoing of Trump is going to continue to sour those in the middle, and he is going to weekly provide campaign ad fodder aimed at that middle and the turnout against hime. That could put into play even some recent GOP strongholds, though most I'd predict will stay solidly MAGA red until at least one more ignominious loss for MAGA/Trump.

So, the play by MAGA is to convince some people that Biden is just as bad ethically as Trump. You recently parroted that BS. And that's what they want, to blunt those who might otherwise be ready to stick a nail in Trump's political coffin to simply stay away or vote third party rather than cast a Biden vote, holding their nose.

So the fact that Bill and Hillary were trumps supporters back in the day is irrelevant to your point of view? Why didn't Billary refuse to accept Trump's money??? Why did they show up at Trump's wedding reception? They didn't know who Trump was???? I watched maybe one episode of the apprentice. I understood in 5 minutes what an ass wipe trump was. Explain to me how trump maintained his popularity to the extent that celebrity apprentice attracted so many celebrities??????? Maybe that was because he cut a lotta checks to liberal Democrats in NYS. Maybe it was because trump and Bill were riding the Epstein fantasy island express so they could both diddle underage young girls. Too bad Teddy Kennedy couldn't hitch a ride.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:37 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:59 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:20 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:52 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:04 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:06 am

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:53 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:52 pmYou're no loss to either as you don't vote for either party.

Neither are you. We vote in a one party state.

Maryland is obviously capable of voting statewide for a Republican. But clearly not MAGA type. Voters like me rejected a MAGA election denier last year for Governor, whereas many Independents and Democrats had supported Hogan.

I’m likely to be a Florida resident by November
, however as we’re in downsizing mode. Florida has seemed dark red , MAGA happy, but that’s not a sure thing, so voters like my wife and me could make a difference. I’m seeing the majority of our community residents who had been Trump voters saying they can’t do it again and quite a few saying they’re going to hold their nose and vote for Biden. Not waste the vote. Too important.

Most of my voting life I’ve been in Democrat stronghold’s Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe in balance so voting Republican was part of that. Now I’ll be in a Republican stronghold and voting Democrat will be my tendency here. But gotta be the better candidate and not a flamethrower.

OS becomes more and more delusional. Hogan just served two terms. MD has had republican Governors, Senators and Representatives az the republican party lost its moral core its been harder to win over independent voters.

I confess that my attitude in 2016 was that Clinton didn't need my vote to overwhelmingly defeat Trump in Maryland and that I could therefore register a 'protest' third party vote safely assured it wouldn't matter to Trump's loss of Maryland.

But that was because Trump was such an obviously disgusting candidate that the usual willingness by Maryland moderate Independents to at least consider a Republican option wasn't there. Not that it's so blue that a Republican can't win...they do win when they are moderates of good character and the alternative isn't otherwise safely moderate and sound of character. Two solid candidates and the state typically goes blue, but it can go Republican if the candidates line up.

In 2020, I was similarly confident that Biden didn't need my vote to win Maryland, but I didn't have the same negative views of him that I did of Clinton, so felt fine about making my first vote of my life for a Dem for President. One time out of 15 cycles of voting. My "protest" was against Trump/MAGA...the more votes overall for Biden was my contribution. Folks like me pulled the lever for that reason.

It will be again.
If in Florida, there's at least a small chance that Biden carries the state...a lot needs to happen between now and then, Trump melt downs, conviction, etc, continued positives in the national economy...but abortion is on the ballot here in November and so that could well be a flash point to energize the Dems and I's and R's who reject the over reach of far right MAGA conservatives. Long shot, but not impossible.

You forget how Democrats in NYS had a love affair with trump for many years. Those Democrat icons never hesitated to cash trumps campaign checks. Why even Bill and Hillary proudly posed smiling with trump at his wedding reception. It sure took a very long for these FLP liberal NYS Democrats to turn on the rat bastard they publicly adored for so long. I suppose they can defend themselves the same way trump would...it wasn't personal it was business. When it comes to trump these NYS Democrats loved him and his money before they realized they hated him.

https://people.com/celebrity/hillary-cl ... ing-photo/

You can see the contempt for trump written all over the queen of evils face. That was waaaaaaaaay back when democrats didn't know who trump was. If only they had watched the apprentice.

And this is relevant to this discussion how?
We were discussing the binary aspects of our political system and how our votes, in aggregate, add up differently based on the political demographics of differing states. And how this will potentially play out in 2024.

No one has argued that many politicians, somewhat by the necessities of the process under private funding of elections, don't prostitute themselves to those wishing to curry favor. Most do. All are in that position, few resist, at least not until the obvious repugnance to certain sources either tweaks their own scruples or it becomes a PR problem.

Trump donated and feted those who he thought might help him in some way, often with regard to business, but always to stroke his own ego...he was always about purchasing access to a class of people who otherwise disdained his crassness. In New York that often meant Democrats, but it also covered Republicans like Rudy...however, a Republican like Michael Bloomberg never had any need for the likes of Trump...

And you know my feelings about the Clintons' slippery ethics...

Back to the thread topic, I think the mountain of evidence of wrongdoing of Trump is going to continue to sour those in the middle, and he is going to weekly provide campaign ad fodder aimed at that middle and the turnout against hime. That could put into play even some recent GOP strongholds, though most I'd predict will stay solidly MAGA red until at least one more ignominious loss for MAGA/Trump.

So, the play by MAGA is to convince some people that Biden is just as bad ethically as Trump. You recently parroted that BS. And that's what they want, to blunt those who might otherwise be ready to stick a nail in Trump's political coffin to simply stay away or vote third party rather than cast a Biden vote, holding their nose.

So the fact that Bill and Hillary were trumps supporters back in the day is irrelevant to your point of view? Why didn't Billary refuse to accept Trump's money??? Why did they show up at Trump's wedding reception? They didn't know who Trump was???? I watched maybe one episode of the apprentice. I understood in 5 minutes what an ass wipe trump was. Explain to me how trump maintained his popularity to the extent that celebrity apprentice attracted so many celebrities??????? Maybe that was because he cut a lotta checks to liberal Democrats in NYS. Maybe it was because trump and Bill were riding the Epstein fantasy island express so they could both diddle underage young girls. Too bad Teddy Kennedy couldn't hitch a ride.

Bill and Hillary were/are crypto-Republicans.

This is the exact outcome I've tried to explain to the election deniers, the government handled Covid "wrong", and all other conspiracy theorists.

They are unable to understand that if you put them in charge? They'd have to deal with the exact same nutbjobs that they are themselves.

Watching this "the 2020 election was fixed" Bob Bartelsmeyer guy, who was put in charge of his County's election come to the realization that he would now be the victim of dumb(ss logic is just.....perfect.

These conspiracy theorist don't understand that if you put them in charge of, say, America's Covid response? They'd be the ones who were attacked nonstop by conspiracy idiots.

In other words: millions of Americans are too dumb to understand that no matter what we do? Out come the conspiracy theory nutjobs. That you cannot avoid them by "doing it right". There is no such thing as "right" for these idiots.

It's hilarious watching this guy realize how stupid he was acting with his election conspiracies .....when the idiots accuse HIM of being part of the conspiracy. And he, of course, can't convince them otherwise. It's fanfreakingtastic to watch him figure all this out.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/12/politics ... index.html

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:37 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:59 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:20 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:52 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:04 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:06 am

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:53 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:52 pmYou're no loss to either as you don't vote for either party.

Neither are you. We vote in a one party state.

Maryland is obviously capable of voting statewide for a Republican. But clearly not MAGA type. Voters like me rejected a MAGA election denier last year for Governor, whereas many Independents and Democrats had supported Hogan.

I’m likely to be a Florida resident by November
, however as we’re in downsizing mode. Florida has seemed dark red , MAGA happy, but that’s not a sure thing, so voters like my wife and me could make a difference. I’m seeing the majority of our community residents who had been Trump voters saying they can’t do it again and quite a few saying they’re going to hold their nose and vote for Biden. Not waste the vote. Too important.

Most of my voting life I’ve been in Democrat stronghold’s Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe in balance so voting Republican was part of that. Now I’ll be in a Republican stronghold and voting Democrat will be my tendency here. But gotta be the better candidate and not a flamethrower.

OS becomes more and more delusional. Hogan just served two terms. MD has had republican Governors, Senators and Representatives az the republican party lost its moral core its been harder to win over independent voters.

I confess that my attitude in 2016 was that Clinton didn't need my vote to overwhelmingly defeat Trump in Maryland and that I could therefore register a 'protest' third party vote safely assured it wouldn't matter to Trump's loss of Maryland.

But that was because Trump was such an obviously disgusting candidate that the usual willingness by Maryland moderate Independents to at least consider a Republican option wasn't there. Not that it's so blue that a Republican can't win...they do win when they are moderates of good character and the alternative isn't otherwise safely moderate and sound of character. Two solid candidates and the state typically goes blue, but it can go Republican if the candidates line up.

In 2020, I was similarly confident that Biden didn't need my vote to win Maryland, but I didn't have the same negative views of him that I did of Clinton, so felt fine about making my first vote of my life for a Dem for President. One time out of 15 cycles of voting. My "protest" was against Trump/MAGA...the more votes overall for Biden was my contribution. Folks like me pulled the lever for that reason.

It will be again.
If in Florida, there's at least a small chance that Biden carries the state...a lot needs to happen between now and then, Trump melt downs, conviction, etc, continued positives in the national economy...but abortion is on the ballot here in November and so that could well be a flash point to energize the Dems and I's and R's who reject the over reach of far right MAGA conservatives. Long shot, but not impossible.

You forget how Democrats in NYS had a love affair with trump for many years. Those Democrat icons never hesitated to cash trumps campaign checks. Why even Bill and Hillary proudly posed smiling with trump at his wedding reception. It sure took a very long for these FLP liberal NYS Democrats to turn on the rat bastard they publicly adored for so long. I suppose they can defend themselves the same way trump would...it wasn't personal it was business. When it comes to trump these NYS Democrats loved him and his money before they realized they hated him.

https://people.com/celebrity/hillary-cl ... ing-photo/

You can see the contempt for trump written all over the queen of evils face. That was waaaaaaaaay back when democrats didn't know who trump was. If only they had watched the apprentice.

And this is relevant to this discussion how?
We were discussing the binary aspects of our political system and how our votes, in aggregate, add up differently based on the political demographics of differing states. And how this will potentially play out in 2024.

No one has argued that many politicians, somewhat by the necessities of the process under private funding of elections, don't prostitute themselves to those wishing to curry favor. Most do. All are in that position, few resist, at least not until the obvious repugnance to certain sources either tweaks their own scruples or it becomes a PR problem.

Trump donated and feted those who he thought might help him in some way, often with regard to business, but always to stroke his own ego...he was always about purchasing access to a class of people who otherwise disdained his crassness. In New York that often meant Democrats, but it also covered Republicans like Rudy...however, a Republican like Michael Bloomberg never had any need for the likes of Trump...

And you know my feelings about the Clintons' slippery ethics...

Back to the thread topic, I think the mountain of evidence of wrongdoing of Trump is going to continue to sour those in the middle, and he is going to weekly provide campaign ad fodder aimed at that middle and the turnout against hime. That could put into play even some recent GOP strongholds, though most I'd predict will stay solidly MAGA red until at least one more ignominious loss for MAGA/Trump.

So, the play by MAGA is to convince some people that Biden is just as bad ethically as Trump. You recently parroted that BS. And that's what they want, to blunt those who might otherwise be ready to stick a nail in Trump's political coffin to simply stay away or vote third party rather than cast a Biden vote, holding their nose.

So the fact that Bill and Hillary were trumps supporters back in the day is irrelevant to your point of view? Why didn't Billary refuse to accept Trump's money??? Why did they show up at Trump's wedding reception? They didn't know who Trump was???? I watched maybe one episode of the apprentice. I understood in 5 minutes what an ass wipe trump was. Explain to me how trump maintained his popularity to the extent that celebrity apprentice attracted so many celebrities??????? Maybe that was because he cut a lotta checks to liberal Democrats in NYS. Maybe it was because trump and Bill were riding the Epstein fantasy island express so they could both diddle underage young girls. Too bad Teddy Kennedy couldn't hitch a ride.

point of view about what?
Is that supposed to make me feel differently about Trump? or the Clintons?

I'm not a fan of either, so why would it matter to me?

It's not remotely on topic far as I can tell.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:21 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:37 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:59 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:20 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:52 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:04 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:06 am

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:53 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:52 pmYou're no loss to either as you don't vote for either party.

Neither are you. We vote in a one party state.

Maryland is obviously capable of voting statewide for a Republican. But clearly not MAGA type. Voters like me rejected a MAGA election denier last year for Governor, whereas many Independents and Democrats had supported Hogan.

I’m likely to be a Florida resident by November
, however as we’re in downsizing mode. Florida has seemed dark red , MAGA happy, but that’s not a sure thing, so voters like my wife and me could make a difference. I’m seeing the majority of our community residents who had been Trump voters saying they can’t do it again and quite a few saying they’re going to hold their nose and vote for Biden. Not waste the vote. Too important.

Most of my voting life I’ve been in Democrat stronghold’s Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe in balance so voting Republican was part of that. Now I’ll be in a Republican stronghold and voting Democrat will be my tendency here. But gotta be the better candidate and not a flamethrower.

OS becomes more and more delusional. Hogan just served two terms. MD has had republican Governors, Senators and Representatives az the republican party lost its moral core its been harder to win over independent voters.

I confess that my attitude in 2016 was that Clinton didn't need my vote to overwhelmingly defeat Trump in Maryland and that I could therefore register a 'protest' third party vote safely assured it wouldn't matter to Trump's loss of Maryland.

But that was because Trump was such an obviously disgusting candidate that the usual willingness by Maryland moderate Independents to at least consider a Republican option wasn't there. Not that it's so blue that a Republican can't win...they do win when they are moderates of good character and the alternative isn't otherwise safely moderate and sound of character. Two solid candidates and the state typically goes blue, but it can go Republican if the candidates line up.

In 2020, I was similarly confident that Biden didn't need my vote to win Maryland, but I didn't have the same negative views of him that I did of Clinton, so felt fine about making my first vote of my life for a Dem for President. One time out of 15 cycles of voting. My "protest" was against Trump/MAGA...the more votes overall for Biden was my contribution. Folks like me pulled the lever for that reason.

It will be again.
If in Florida, there's at least a small chance that Biden carries the state...a lot needs to happen between now and then, Trump melt downs, conviction, etc, continued positives in the national economy...but abortion is on the ballot here in November and so that could well be a flash point to energize the Dems and I's and R's who reject the over reach of far right MAGA conservatives. Long shot, but not impossible.

You forget how Democrats in NYS had a love affair with trump for many years. Those Democrat icons never hesitated to cash trumps campaign checks. Why even Bill and Hillary proudly posed smiling with trump at his wedding reception. It sure took a very long for these FLP liberal NYS Democrats to turn on the rat bastard they publicly adored for so long. I suppose they can defend themselves the same way trump would...it wasn't personal it was business. When it comes to trump these NYS Democrats loved him and his money before they realized they hated him.

https://people.com/celebrity/hillary-cl ... ing-photo/

You can see the contempt for trump written all over the queen of evils face. That was waaaaaaaaay back when democrats didn't know who trump was. If only they had watched the apprentice.

And this is relevant to this discussion how?
We were discussing the binary aspects of our political system and how our votes, in aggregate, add up differently based on the political demographics of differing states. And how this will potentially play out in 2024.

No one has argued that many politicians, somewhat by the necessities of the process under private funding of elections, don't prostitute themselves to those wishing to curry favor. Most do. All are in that position, few resist, at least not until the obvious repugnance to certain sources either tweaks their own scruples or it becomes a PR problem.

Trump donated and feted those who he thought might help him in some way, often with regard to business, but always to stroke his own ego...he was always about purchasing access to a class of people who otherwise disdained his crassness. In New York that often meant Democrats, but it also covered Republicans like Rudy...however, a Republican like Michael Bloomberg never had any need for the likes of Trump...

And you know my feelings about the Clintons' slippery ethics...

Back to the thread topic, I think the mountain of evidence of wrongdoing of Trump is going to continue to sour those in the middle, and he is going to weekly provide campaign ad fodder aimed at that middle and the turnout against hime. That could put into play even some recent GOP strongholds, though most I'd predict will stay solidly MAGA red until at least one more ignominious loss for MAGA/Trump.

So, the play by MAGA is to convince some people that Biden is just as bad ethically as Trump. You recently parroted that BS. And that's what they want, to blunt those who might otherwise be ready to stick a nail in Trump's political coffin to simply stay away or vote third party rather than cast a Biden vote, holding their nose.

So the fact that Bill and Hillary were trumps supporters back in the day is irrelevant to your point of view? Why didn't Billary refuse to accept Trump's money??? Why did they show up at Trump's wedding reception? They didn't know who Trump was???? I watched maybe one episode of the apprentice. I understood in 5 minutes what an ass wipe trump was. Explain to me how trump maintained his popularity to the extent that celebrity apprentice attracted so many celebrities??????? Maybe that was because he cut a lotta checks to liberal Democrats in NYS. Maybe it was because trump and Bill were riding the Epstein fantasy island express so they could both diddle underage young girls. Too bad Teddy Kennedy couldn't hitch a ride.

point of view about what?
Is that supposed to make me feel differently about Trump? or the Clintons?

I'm not a fan of either, so why would it matter to me?

It's not remotely on topic far as I can tell.

It matters to the extent that in politics today character no longer matters. Trump has a legitimate chance to win in 2024. Need I say more?? Why do you think the # of independent voters is increasing? Why do you think more people like myself are desperately looking for another option not named Biden or trump? Why do you think that is not likely to happen?? Do you have a preference that the POTUS have some sort of semblance of honesty and integrity?

Ok, yes, I fully understand why people would like to find a third party candidate. A lot of sound reasons.

I’ve twice voted for third party candidates as a protest vote.

However, unless there is a legitimate probability of actually winning, it is no more than a protest.

The closest a third party candidate has ever gotten in the past 100 years was Ross Perot, and that gave us Bill Clinto over HW.

The stakes are way higher in this election.

Of course, New York States electoral votes are quite solidly in the Biden fold so your personal vote and those with similar disdain for politics in general won’t matter in your state.

But they will matter in some states… there, it’s important that as many voters who don’t like Trump vote for Biden as possible, even if that means holding their noses.

Character DOES still matter. Even when the better choice is flawed.

I don’t think it’s a remotely close call between the two men if considering “character “. But more importantly, the threat that Trump’s character brings, and that of the people he attracts to him, are actually existential to our form of government.

Of course, that’s what many voters actually‘want’, while others are ostriches with their heads in the sand.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:10 am Ok, yes, I fully understand why people would like to find a third party candidate. A lot of sound reasons.

I’ve twice voted for third party candidates as a protest vote.

However, unless there is a legitimate probability of actually winning, it is no more than a protest.

The closest a third party candidate has ever gotten in the past 100 years was Ross Perot, and that gave us Bill Clinto over HW.

The stakes are way higher in this election.

Of course, New York States electoral votes are quite solidly in the Biden fold so your personal vote and those with similar disdain for politics in general won’t matter in your state.

But they will matter in some states… there, it’s important that as many voters who don’t like Trump vote for Biden as possible, even if that means holding their noses.

Character DOES still matter. Even when the better choice is flawed.

I don’t think it’s a remotely close call between the two men if considering “character “. But more importantly, the threat that Trump’s character brings, and that of the people he attracts to him, are actually existential to our form of government.

Of course, that’s what many voters actually‘want’, while others are ostriches with their heads in the sand.

Your 100% correct. In NYS it will not matter at all. All I know is I'm not voting for trump or Biden. I don't believe either person is qualified to hold the highest office in the land. At the end of the day, barring unforseen circumstances, it looks like one of them will win the job. I don't know who the person will be but I'm voting for the best candidate not named trump or Biden. I'm hoping Liz Cheney runs. I respect her tenacity and outspokenness. The only thing she will have to overcome is being Dick Cheneys daughter. VP Cheney was not very well liked by the members of this forum.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:41 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:10 am Ok, yes, I fully understand why people would like to find a third party candidate. A lot of sound reasons.

I’ve twice voted for third party candidates as a protest vote.

However, unless there is a legitimate probability of actually winning, it is no more than a protest.

The closest a third party candidate has ever gotten in the past 100 years was Ross Perot, and that gave us Bill Clinto over HW.

The stakes are way higher in this election.

Of course, New York States electoral votes are quite solidly in the Biden fold so your personal vote and those with similar disdain for politics in general won’t matter in your state.

But they will matter in some states… there, it’s important that as many voters who don’t like Trump vote for Biden as possible, even if that means holding their noses.

Character DOES still matter. Even when the better choice is flawed.

I don’t think it’s a remotely close call between the two men if considering “character “. But more importantly, the threat that Trump’s character brings, and that of the people he attracts to him, are actually existential to our form of government.

Of course, that’s what many voters actually‘want’, while others are ostriches with their heads in the sand.

Your 100% correct. In NYS it will not matter at all. All I know is I'm not voting for trump or Biden. I don't believe either person is qualified to hold the highest office in the land. At the end of the day, barring unforseen circumstances, it looks like one of them will win the job. I don't know who the person will be but I'm voting for the best candidate not named trump or Biden. I'm hoping Liz Cheney runs. I respect her tenacity and outspokenness. The only thing she will have to overcome is being Dick Cheneys daughter. VP Cheney was not very well liked by the members of this forum.

"the only thing she will have to overcome" is that her candidacy would take votes away from people voting for Biden, not Trump. No one who would vote for Trump will vote for Liz instead.

That's the opposite of her goal, which is to prevent Trump from attaining power again. Gotta vote Biden if that's the primary, overarching goal...if you respect her, listen to her and take heed. She's deadly serious about the threat Trump presents.

As to not "qualified to hold the job", I don't think that's remotely reasonable re Biden, regardless of policy differences. He's proven pretty clearly to me that he operates in the job with some fundamental country-first, country over self, country over party, integrity, and has real empathy for those in various sorts of pain. He also looks for consensus and is willing to compromise to achieve movement on issues.Lifetime in politics doing so, and the most important legislative accomplishments of his Presidency to date were largely achieved with cross the aisle support. Maybe that's a low bar to some, but it stands in stark contrast to the alternative who stands as super representative of the opposite.

I think there could be others from his party who might serve as well or better in the role, but he's the option. And the GOP appears incapable of breaking the MAGA Trump cult fever for now.

Who knows, Cheney in 2028...but I doubt it...

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:08 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:41 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:10 am Ok, yes, I fully understand why people would like to find a third party candidate. A lot of sound reasons.

I’ve twice voted for third party candidates as a protest vote.

However, unless there is a legitimate probability of actually winning, it is no more than a protest.

The closest a third party candidate has ever gotten in the past 100 years was Ross Perot, and that gave us Bill Clinto over HW.

The stakes are way higher in this election.

Of course, New York States electoral votes are quite solidly in the Biden fold so your personal vote and those with similar disdain for politics in general won’t matter in your state.

But they will matter in some states… there, it’s important that as many voters who don’t like Trump vote for Biden as possible, even if that means holding their noses.

Character DOES still matter. Even when the better choice is flawed.

I don’t think it’s a remotely close call between the two men if considering “character “. But more importantly, the threat that Trump’s character brings, and that of the people he attracts to him, are actually existential to our form of government.

Of course, that’s what many voters actually‘want’, while others are ostriches with their heads in the sand.

Your 100% correct. In NYS it will not matter at all. All I know is I'm not voting for trump or Biden. I don't believe either person is qualified to hold the highest office in the land. At the end of the day, barring unforseen circumstances, it looks like one of them will win the job. I don't know who the person will be but I'm voting for the best candidate not named trump or Biden. I'm hoping Liz Cheney runs. I respect her tenacity and outspokenness. The only thing she will have to overcome is being Dick Cheneys daughter. VP Cheney was not very well liked by the members of this forum.

"the only thing she will have to overcome" is that her candidacy would take votes away from people voting for Biden, not Trump. No one who would vote for Trump will vote for Liz instead.

That's the opposite of her goal, which is to prevent Trump from attaining power again. Gotta vote Biden if that's the primary, overarching goal...if you respect her, listen to her and take heed. She's deadly serious about the threat Trump presents.

As to not "qualified to hold the job", I don't think that's remotely reasonable re Biden, regardless of policy differences. He's proven pretty clearly to me that he operates in the job with some fundamental country-first, country over self, country over party, integrity, and has real empathy for those in various sorts of pain. He also looks for consensus and is willing to compromise to achieve movement on issues.Lifetime in politics doing so, and the most important legislative accomplishments of his Presidency to date were largely achieved with cross the aisle support. Maybe that's a low bar to some, but it stands in stark contrast to the alternative who stands as super representative of the opposite.

I think there could be others from his party who might serve as well or better in the role, but he's the option. And the GOP appears incapable of breaking the MAGA Trump cult fever for now.

Who knows, Cheney in 2028...but I doubt it...

I still would rather vote for a candidate I can actually support and have confidence in. IMO neither of the 2 candidates are qualified to be POTUS. I'm not a big fan of being forced to choose the lesser of 2 evils.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:46 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:08 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:41 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:10 am Ok, yes, I fully understand why people would like to find a third party candidate. A lot of sound reasons.

I’ve twice voted for third party candidates as a protest vote.

However, unless there is a legitimate probability of actually winning, it is no more than a protest.

The closest a third party candidate has ever gotten in the past 100 years was Ross Perot, and that gave us Bill Clinto over HW.

The stakes are way higher in this election.

Of course, New York States electoral votes are quite solidly in the Biden fold so your personal vote and those with similar disdain for politics in general won’t matter in your state.

But they will matter in some states… there, it’s important that as many voters who don’t like Trump vote for Biden as possible, even if that means holding their noses.

Character DOES still matter. Even when the better choice is flawed.

I don’t think it’s a remotely close call between the two men if considering “character “. But more importantly, the threat that Trump’s character brings, and that of the people he attracts to him, are actually existential to our form of government.

Of course, that’s what many voters actually‘want’, while others are ostriches with their heads in the sand.

Your 100% correct. In NYS it will not matter at all. All I know is I'm not voting for trump or Biden. I don't believe either person is qualified to hold the highest office in the land. At the end of the day, barring unforseen circumstances, it looks like one of them will win the job. I don't know who the person will be but I'm voting for the best candidate not named trump or Biden. I'm hoping Liz Cheney runs. I respect her tenacity and outspokenness. The only thing she will have to overcome is being Dick Cheneys daughter. VP Cheney was not very well liked by the members of this forum.

"the only thing she will have to overcome" is that her candidacy would take votes away from people voting for Biden, not Trump. No one who would vote for Trump will vote for Liz instead.

That's the opposite of her goal, which is to prevent Trump from attaining power again. Gotta vote Biden if that's the primary, overarching goal...if you respect her, listen to her and take heed. She's deadly serious about the threat Trump presents.

As to not "qualified to hold the job", I don't think that's remotely reasonable re Biden, regardless of policy differences. He's proven pretty clearly to me that he operates in the job with some fundamental country-first, country over self, country over party, integrity, and has real empathy for those in various sorts of pain. He also looks for consensus and is willing to compromise to achieve movement on issues.Lifetime in politics doing so, and the most important legislative accomplishments of his Presidency to date were largely achieved with cross the aisle support. Maybe that's a low bar to some, but it stands in stark contrast to the alternative who stands as super representative of the opposite.

I think there could be others from his party who might serve as well or better in the role, but he's the option. And the GOP appears incapable of breaking the MAGA Trump cult fever for now.

Who knows, Cheney in 2028...but I doubt it...

I still would rather vote for a candidate I can actually support and have confidence in. IMO neither of the 2 candidates are qualified to be POTUS. I'm not a big fan of being forced to choose the lesser of 2 evils.

I'm not sure who would be a "fan of being forced to choose the lesser of 2 evils" but that's the way American constitutional democratic republic has been established for over a couple hundred years. Parliamentary systems are structured differently, sometimes in a good way, often in a way that is quite dysfunctional, but it ain't what we got...and thank goodness we don't have any of the forms of authoritarianism that IMO are way worse...

And in this election, it's starkly obvious that if we don't choose that "lesser of two evils", we stand to lose our democracy and will turn to authoritarianism. Couple hundred year 'experiment' will have ultimately failed...and that's what Cheney is saying to any who will listen.

Fortunately, in most election cycles, we do get two reasonable choices who respect the rules of society, the law, and our system of government. Usually each has flaws, sometimes a bit more one than the other (eg, IMO Bill Clinton character flaws versus HW) and/or there are sufficient policy differences to make a decision based on those.

Sometimes, like this time, we only get one who meets that minimum bar of basic respect for the rule of law.

The problem is that a whole lot of people, for all sorts of reasons, don't care and are willing to have the experiment 'fail'. They'll self-justify till the cows come home, but that's the reality we face...too many of them, and we lose it. Hopefully there will be more who do care, and most importantly, there will be enough more in the states that are close calls to ensure that the electoral college doesn't go to the candidate who wins only a minority of the voters overall, and who promises authoritarian retribution to those who opposed him...

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:08 am As to not "qualified to hold the job", I don't think that's remotely reasonable re Biden, regardless of policy differences. He's proven pretty clearly to me that he operates in the job with some fundamental country-first, country over self, country over party, integrity, and has real empathy for those in various sorts of pain. He also looks for consensus and is willing to compromise to achieve movement on issues.Lifetime in politics doing so, and the most important legislative accomplishments of his Presidency to date were largely achieved with cross the aisle support. Maybe that's a low bar to some, but it stands in stark contrast to the alternative who stands as super representative of the opposite.

Respectfully, the portrait you paint is profoundly different than the one I see in my mind's eye regarding President Biden and his administration.

Real empathy for those in pain? Like the pain of the families and friends of the estimated 100,000 citizens poisoned to death by Fentanyl in 2023? Our government indicates 98% of Fentanyl intercepted on its way to killing us occurs at the southern border. Should this not be a national priority, outrage, and battle cry for more than "thoughts and prayers"?

Have you seen his latest campaign ads painting a large swath of the country as armed insurrectionists who threaten the very core of democracy (doesn't the pledge of allegiance mention Republic?). That's one heck of a consensus building strategy right there.

I mean, golly, the massive amount of time, energy, government funds, lobbying funds, media ink, and social media "digital ink" being put into disarming law abiding citizens seems limitless. After all, in 2023, the tally is in: There were 8 mass public shooting events, and 64 deaths, according to the sensible and defensible methodology of The Violence Project. That's 99,936 less deaths by criminal gun use than by criminal fentanyl. And, yet, we have our politicians, press, and powerful lobbying interests playing new and ever more creative word games, the latest chestnut of stupidity being the invention out of whole cloth of "military grade ammunition". Which 20 state attorney's general have decided they need to demand cessation of sales of to law abiding gun owners - painting it as some sort of loophole that is responsible for school shootings. 10 minutes of googling provides factual data regarding how completely without clue these AG's are about ammunition. If any of us tried to pull what they are trying in a term paper Freshman year with our professors it would be returned with a grade of "D" - and a note in red pencil suggesting we actually research the subject we are writing about.

Maybe these AG's should focus instead upon keeping really violent first time and repeat criminals off our streets so they cannot murder more, rape more, assault more, and reoffend again and again. I'm pretty sure law abiding citizens who would like to live their lives peacefully and privately would appreciate such an effort from elected and appointed officials who are sworn to keep us citizens safe.

I'll give Biden (and Border Czar Kamala and Mayorkas the Malignant) my kudos for their empathy when they show an earnest inclination to reverse their dumpster fire border policies (and inaction) national crisis - which is responsible for more deaths in this country by a factor of more than 5 - than murder.

I lament our choices in November are shaping up to be Terrible and Really Terrible.

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:08 am As to not "qualified to hold the job", I don't think that's remotely reasonable re Biden, regardless of policy differences. He's proven pretty clearly to me that he operates in the job with some fundamental country-first, country over self, country over party, integrity, and has real empathy for those in various sorts of pain. He also looks for consensus and is willing to compromise to achieve movement on issues.Lifetime in politics doing so, and the most important legislative accomplishments of his Presidency to date were largely achieved with cross the aisle support. Maybe that's a low bar to some, but it stands in stark contrast to the alternative who stands as super representative of the opposite.

Respectfully, the portrait you paint is profoundly different than the one I see in my mind's eye regarding President Biden and his administration.

Real empathy for those in pain? Like the pain of the families and friends of the estimated 100,000 citizens poisoned to death by Fentanyl in 2023? Our government indicates 98% of Fentanyl intercepted on its way to killing us occurs at the southern border. Should this not be a national priority, outrage, and battle cry for more than "thoughts and prayers"?

Have you seen his latest campaign ads painting a large swath of the country as armed insurrectionists who threaten the very core of democracy (doesn't the pledge of allegiance mention Republic?). That's one heck of a consensus building strategy right there.

I mean, golly, the massive amount of time, energy, government funds, lobbying funds, media ink, and social media "digital ink" being put into disarming law abiding citizens seems limitless. After all, in 2023, the tally is in: There were 8 mass public shooting events, and 64 deaths, according to the sensible and defensible methodology of The Violence Project. That's 99,936 less deaths by criminal gun use than by criminal fentanyl. And, yet, we have our politicians, press, and powerful lobbying interests playing new and ever more creative word games, the latest chestnut of stupidity being the invention out of whole cloth of "military grade ammunition". Which 20 state attorney's general have decided they need to demand cessation of sales of to law abiding gun owners - painting it as some sort of loophole that is responsible for school shootings. 10 minutes of googling provides factual data regarding how completely without clue these AG's are about ammunition. If any of us tried to pull what they are trying in a term paper Freshman year with our professors it would be returned with a grade of "D" - and a note in red pencil suggesting we actually research the subject we are writing about.

Maybe these AG's should focus instead upon keeping really violent first time and repeat criminals off our streets so they cannot murder more, rape more, assault more, and reoffend again and again. I'm pretty sure law abiding citizens who would like to live their lives peacefully and privately would appreciate such an effort from elected and appointed officials who are sworn to keep us citizens safe.

I'll give Biden (and Border Czar Kamala and Mayorkas the Malignant) my kudos for their empathy when they show an earnest inclination to reverse their dumpster fire border policies (and inaction) national crisis - which is responsible for more deaths in this country by a factor of more than 5 - than murder.

I lament our choices in November are shaping up to be Terrible and Really Terrible.

yeah, you're a Dem...

Yes, it's easy to critique the lack of a sound compromise to achieve better border security and immigration policy. And a lack of a sound compromise on addiction healthcare. Opioid overdoes have been rising at a very rapid rate for the last decade with many, many millions of Americans addicted and with an insatiable demand for ever higher doses, and no real alternative to illegal and very dangerous substances...no control of dosage or purity or...

But yes, I believe Biden feels empathy about drug addiction deaths; empathy for the addicted, empathy for those who desperately try to help, empathy for those who lose loved ones. It's an immense scourge and he has no difficulty in the 'caring' aspect...the challenge is what the heck to do about it, and IMO that ain't a partisan matter, nor a particular President matter.

And yes, those were actually insurrectionists, violent offenders trying to prevent the lawful turnover of power...you gonna now call them "hostages" too?

"The U.S. must find innovative solutions to stop and reverse the prevalence of illicit fentanyl in American communities. CBP data indicates overall drug seizures at the U.S.-Mexico border and our maritime borders, by pounds seized, are trending down. However, there is a key exception: seizures of lighter and more potent illicit fentanyl are increasing at a fast pace.

Illicit fentanyl, more potent than heroin or morphine, can be cheaply produced and smuggled in small quantities. Data shows that most illicit fentanyl is smuggled into the U.S. through the southern border and, specifically, through Ports of Entry (POEs) and by U.S. citizens. Maritime borders are also susceptible to fentanyl smuggling. To stop the flow of illicit fentanyl into America, it is important to focus on policies and programs that understand how fentanyl is being smuggled into the U.S. and by whom. There is also a need to address demand, since focusing on supply itself is unlikely to solve the challenge. "

https://immigrationforum.org/article/il ... 0than,POEs)%20and%20by%20U.S.%20citizens.

Anyone in the Biden Admin arguing against greatly increased funding for detection at ports of entry? Seems to me that's a big part of their 'ask' from Congress.

But some people want the issue not the solutions.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:27 pm

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:08 am As to not "qualified to hold the job", I don't think that's remotely reasonable re Biden, regardless of policy differences. He's proven pretty clearly to me that he operates in the job with some fundamental country-first, country over self, country over party, integrity, and has real empathy for those in various sorts of pain. He also looks for consensus and is willing to compromise to achieve movement on issues.Lifetime in politics doing so, and the most important legislative accomplishments of his Presidency to date were largely achieved with cross the aisle support. Maybe that's a low bar to some, but it stands in stark contrast to the alternative who stands as super representative of the opposite.

Respectfully, the portrait you paint is profoundly different than the one I see in my mind's eye regarding President Biden and his administration.

Real empathy for those in pain? Like the pain of the families and friends of the estimated 100,000 citizens poisoned to death by Fentanyl in 2023? Our government indicates 98% of Fentanyl intercepted on its way to killing us occurs at the southern border. Should this not be a national priority, outrage, and battle cry for more than "thoughts and prayers"?

Have you seen his latest campaign ads painting a large swath of the country as armed insurrectionists who threaten the very core of democracy (doesn't the pledge of allegiance mention Republic?). That's one heck of a consensus building strategy right there.

I mean, golly, the massive amount of time, energy, government funds, lobbying funds, media ink, and social media "digital ink" being put into disarming law abiding citizens seems limitless. After all, in 2023, the tally is in: There were 8 mass public shooting events, and 64 deaths, according to the sensible and defensible methodology of The Violence Project. That's 99,936 less deaths by criminal gun use than by criminal fentanyl. And, yet, we have our politicians, press, and powerful lobbying interests playing new and ever more creative word games, the latest chestnut of stupidity being the invention out of whole cloth of "military grade ammunition". Which 20 state attorney's general have decided they need to demand cessation of sales of to law abiding gun owners - painting it as some sort of loophole that is responsible for school shootings. 10 minutes of googling provides factual data regarding how completely without clue these AG's are about ammunition. If any of us tried to pull what they are trying in a term paper Freshman year with our professors it would be returned with a grade of "D" - and a note in red pencil suggesting we actually research the subject we are writing about.

Maybe these AG's should focus instead upon keeping really violent first time and repeat criminals off our streets so they cannot murder more, rape more, assault more, and reoffend again and again. I'm pretty sure law abiding citizens who would like to live their lives peacefully and privately would appreciate such an effort from elected and appointed officials who are sworn to keep us citizens safe.

I'll give Biden (and Border Czar Kamala and Mayorkas the Malignant) my kudos for their empathy when they show an earnest inclination to reverse their dumpster fire border policies (and inaction) national crisis - which is responsible for more deaths in this country by a factor of more than 5 - than murder.

I lament our choices in November are shaping up to be Terrible and Really Terrible.

yeah, you're a Dem...

Yes, it's easy to critique the lack of a sound compromise to achieve better border security and immigration policy. And a lack of a sound compromise on addiction healthcare. Opioid overdoes have been rising at a very rapid rate for the last decade with many, many millions of Americans addicted and with an insatiable demand for ever higher doses, and no real alternative to illegal and very dangerous substances...no control of dosage or purity or...

But yes, I believe Biden feels empathy about drug addiction deaths; empathy for the addicted, empathy for those who desperately try to help, empathy for those who lose loved ones. It's an immense scourge and he has no difficulty in the 'caring' aspect...the challenge is what the heck to do about it, and IMO that ain't a partisan matter, nor a particular President matter.

And yes, those were actually insurrectionists, violent offenders trying to prevent the lawful turnover of power...you gonna now call them "hostages" too?

We'll have to agree to disagree on the timing of Biden's administration suddenly caring about the Border Crisis. He seemed to get a little bit inspired when even his own party and voter base started asking "What the heck?", and our 2024 election year loomed. That leaves nearly 3 years - since day one of his administration - of the border being a wide open free for all. Under Obama and Trump, the border was just a partially open, but still manageable, free for all, to assign blame retroactively. We have laws governing our borders. Those laws are being broken, ignored, and worse. I'm sure you've researched the crime being committed by illegals. Do so for 2023?

And the insurrection was the most weapon free hostile government takeover attempt since cave men picked up rocks. One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws. Hmmm.

I wish you could get your brain around my being a lifelong registered democratic voter. It shouldn't take too much gymnastics if you can give me the benefit of the doubt regarding endeavoring to make informed choices and positions on granular issues facing our great nation. I do so with your republican registered but passionate MAGA enmity. It's really not that hard, if you try. Supposedly there's 40% of the voting public that, if it existed, would love to have a centrist third party choice. I've always fantasized about what that would look like - a blend of Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Libertarians - and my posts might just reflect that I'd be aligned with bits and pieces of all of the above. I do just chirp up here on some of the stuff that really twists my panties in a bunch, so I can see how my being a D, other than D-bag, would be a stretch for some. I need a good ranty release here and there, and inspiration for that comes easy here on fanlax.

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:45 pm We'll have to agree to disagree on the timing of Biden's administration suddenly caring about the Border Crisis. He seemed to get a little bit inspired when even his own party and voter base started asking "What the heck?", and our 2024 election year loomed. That leaves nearly 3 years - since day one of his administration - of the border being a wide open free for all. Under Obama and Trump, the border was just a partially open, but still manageable, free for all, to assign blame retroactively. We have laws governing our borders. Those laws are being broken, ignored, and worse. I'm sure you've researched the crime being committed by illegals. Do so for 2023?

Fentanyl and migrants are two different issues. Fentanyl comes in vehicles, not 10 year old kids.

The border has been "open" for 40+ years. We didn't get the estimated 11+ million illegal immigrants in the US just last week. It's been an ongoing situation that we elected Trump to fix, if you'll recall. He did NOTHING about it. No reform. No laws. No major changes to work VISAs. No prosecution of businesses for hiring workers illegally, as promised. Republican voters didn't care that he did nothing, as his record support showed.

And you should know as a registered Dem that the border/immigration/visa reform isn't a major issue for the party. It's way down the list. It shouldn't be a surprise to you that Biden is doing doodly about any of it.

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:45 pm And the insurrection was the most weapon free hostile government takeover attempt since cave men picked up rocks. One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws. Hmmm.

Follow the laws? Want to try again? In what world is forcefully breaking into a Federal building filled with our legislators "following the law".

The protesters who stayed behind the barricades? I have their back, 100%. Protesting your government is the most American thing you can do. But the minute they tried to subvert the lawful transition of power and crossed those barricades? Prosecute to the maximum extent of the law, so this never happens again.

What would have happened if the police stood their ground, did what they were paid to do, and emptied their clips on the folks trying to get into the building? If you don't understand how close we were to a REAL mess that day....I think you need to rethink you views. The men and women in uniform performed BRILLIANTLY given the circumstances. If it weren't for their quick thinking, we could have had blood everywhere...with no one to blame but the people who breached the building.

Enjoying the back and forth.

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:45 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:27 pm

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:08 am As to not "qualified to hold the job", I don't think that's remotely reasonable re Biden, regardless of policy differences. He's proven pretty clearly to me that he operates in the job with some fundamental country-first, country over self, country over party, integrity, and has real empathy for those in various sorts of pain. He also looks for consensus and is willing to compromise to achieve movement on issues.Lifetime in politics doing so, and the most important legislative accomplishments of his Presidency to date were largely achieved with cross the aisle support. Maybe that's a low bar to some, but it stands in stark contrast to the alternative who stands as super representative of the opposite.

Respectfully, the portrait you paint is profoundly different than the one I see in my mind's eye regarding President Biden and his administration.

Real empathy for those in pain? Like the pain of the families and friends of the estimated 100,000 citizens poisoned to death by Fentanyl in 2023? Our government indicates 98% of Fentanyl intercepted on its way to killing us occurs at the southern border. Should this not be a national priority, outrage, and battle cry for more than "thoughts and prayers"?

Have you seen his latest campaign ads painting a large swath of the country as armed insurrectionists who threaten the very core of democracy (doesn't the pledge of allegiance mention Republic?). That's one heck of a consensus building strategy right there.

I mean, golly, the massive amount of time, energy, government funds, lobbying funds, media ink, and social media "digital ink" being put into disarming law abiding citizens seems limitless. After all, in 2023, the tally is in: There were 8 mass public shooting events, and 64 deaths, according to the sensible and defensible methodology of The Violence Project. That's 99,936 less deaths by criminal gun use than by criminal fentanyl. And, yet, we have our politicians, press, and powerful lobbying interests playing new and ever more creative word games, the latest chestnut of stupidity being the invention out of whole cloth of "military grade ammunition". Which 20 state attorney's general have decided they need to demand cessation of sales of to law abiding gun owners - painting it as some sort of loophole that is responsible for school shootings. 10 minutes of googling provides factual data regarding how completely without clue these AG's are about ammunition. If any of us tried to pull what they are trying in a term paper Freshman year with our professors it would be returned with a grade of "D" - and a note in red pencil suggesting we actually research the subject we are writing about.

Maybe these AG's should focus instead upon keeping really violent first time and repeat criminals off our streets so they cannot murder more, rape more, assault more, and reoffend again and again. I'm pretty sure law abiding citizens who would like to live their lives peacefully and privately would appreciate such an effort from elected and appointed officials who are sworn to keep us citizens safe.

I'll give Biden (and Border Czar Kamala and Mayorkas the Malignant) my kudos for their empathy when they show an earnest inclination to reverse their dumpster fire border policies (and inaction) national crisis - which is responsible for more deaths in this country by a factor of more than 5 - than murder.

I lament our choices in November are shaping up to be Terrible and Really Terrible.

yeah, you're a Dem...

Yes, it's easy to critique the lack of a sound compromise to achieve better border security and immigration policy. And a lack of a sound compromise on addiction healthcare. Opioid overdoes have been rising at a very rapid rate for the last decade with many, many millions of Americans addicted and with an insatiable demand for ever higher doses, and no real alternative to illegal and very dangerous substances...no control of dosage or purity or...

But yes, I believe Biden feels empathy about drug addiction deaths; empathy for the addicted, empathy for those who desperately try to help, empathy for those who lose loved ones. It's an immense scourge and he has no difficulty in the 'caring' aspect...the challenge is what the heck to do about it, and IMO that ain't a partisan matter, nor a particular President matter.

And yes, those were actually insurrectionists, violent offenders trying to prevent the lawful turnover of power...you gonna now call them "hostages" too?

We'll have to agree to disagree on the timing of Biden's administration suddenly caring about the Border Crisis. He seemed to get a little bit inspired when even his own party and voter base started asking "What the heck?", and our 2024 election year loomed. That leaves nearly 3 years - since day one of his administration - of the border being a wide open free for all. Under Obama and Trump, the border was just a partially open, but still manageable, free for all, to assign blame retroactively. We have laws governing our borders. Those laws are being broken, ignored, and worse. I'm sure you've researched the crime being committed by illegals. Do so for 2023?

And the insurrection was the most weapon free hostile government takeover attempt since cave men picked up rocks. One single firearm. Seems like even gun crazy militia preppers follow the laws. Hmmm.

I wish you could get your brain around my being a lifelong registered democratic voter. It shouldn't take too much gymnastics if you can give me the benefit of the doubt regarding endeavoring to make informed choices and positions on granular issues facing our great nation. I do so with your republican registered but passionate MAGA enmity. It's really not that hard, if you try. Supposedly there's 40% of the voting public that, if it existed, would love to have a centrist third party choice. I've always fantasized about what that would look like - a blend of Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Libertarians - and my posts might just reflect that I'd be aligned with bits and pieces of all of the above. I do just chirp up here on some of the stuff that really twists my panties in a bunch, so I can see how my being a D, other than D-bag, would be a stretch for some. I need a good ranty release here and there, and inspiration for that comes easy here on fanlax.

waffle, the ONLY things you post on, make you sound all-in with MAGA ideology. If anything else gets your "panties in a bunch", you don't rant on here about it.

In the above exchange, you went to "wide open borders", "crime by illegals", guns, and Jan 6 denialism (at least on topic). Might as well be parroting the right wing MAGA friendly media, playing all day on Fox, OAN, and NewsMax with some interruptions to go at the Biden Crime Family.

Immigration and border security against crime are two separate issues, though MAGA likes to conflate them and as you are doing in lockstep with MAGA, because they know it gets the bigots riled up. And the Dems keep flailing on separating them, confusing caring about humane treatment of migrants with the actual problems of crime (eg drug trafficking). Neither political party has considered it crucial to actually solve. At least not relative to other issues.

I think where you're right is that the recent escalation in the migration is putting such strains on communities that it is unavoidable politically. We need a huge increase in capacity to process migrants much more swiftly, and much easier, controlled migration allowances. Absent tremendously inhumane treatment, the migration is going to continue as long as the conflicts and poverty to our south, and other parts of the world, remain a reality.

On the fentanyl matter, deaths from plateaued in 2023 versus 2022, fentanyl seizures are was up in 2023...and china has recently agreed to be more helpful...but 'plateaued'' is at an awful level...this is NOT an immigration problem, but rather we need more resources applied, both to interdict supply but more importantly to address addiction health. If it's actually so serious as you say, and I agree having lost a family member to overdose a couple of years ago, then support a big increase in healthcare support for the addicted. Make it so choosing unregulated supply is not necessary...

Remember, if you rant on here, folks will actually engage substantively...