Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[hickorystick]

Anyone ever wonder why there so few people who participate at this forum? Could it be that it oozes sanctiimonious judgement of others and belittling statements about their intellect and ability to comprehend.
Wow, what a bunch of uppity f**Ks!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Observation isn't racist. Stereotyping is racist. The NBA could be 99% black and "blacks are good basketball players" still wouldn't be true. The NBA has a high percentage of black basketball players would be true.

So if an Icelander leaves his first NBA experience (game) and says, "Boy, blacks are very good basketball players.", that's a racist statement?

A high percentage of blacks, or very high percentage?

Norwegians are good skiers.
Racist, stereotyping, or just true?

Too many are too quick to holler racist and stereotyping when that just isn't true, IMO.

They aren’t good basketball players because they are black. Those kids are good because it’s what they spend time on. The skiers from Scandinavia are good not because they are white, they are good because it’s what they spend time on. South American soccer players are not good because they are Latino, they are good because it’s what they spend time on.

The statement isn’t racist. It’s a stereotype. The two things are not the same but can be conflated.

And therein lies the problem. Who is interpreting the statement and why? Any nuance and/or context is immediately ignored by people like Matnum PI and doc, who seem to be following some, IMO, dangerous new religion based on a desire to control/interpret language, in order to shut down speech, and/or grab some moral high ground and power. When a large portion of society starts to adopt this religion (it's happening folks), people will begin not trusting each other and will fear to honestly express themselves for fear of losing their jobs or being physically beaten, i.e.

If you guys REALLY want to discuss this? Ok.

Statement: Norwegians are good skiers.
Racist, stereotyping, or just true?

This statement is demonstrably false. Start there. Start right there.

You're giving Matnum grief for calling out a statement as false. Can you explain why it is you feel the need to defend this incorrect, logical car crash of a statement?

No, Norwegians are NOT good skiers. Do I honestly need to walk you guys through the logically fallacy here?

OMG. A fan you don't get my point. I was not condoning the statement. I was defending the person's right to say it honestly and not be victim of some blanket interpretation immediately applied (without considering context or nuance) that brand them "racist." Now, due to this new so-called sensitivity, that person could face what are in many cases, dire ramifications for exercising free speech and having that speech misinterpreted.

Nobody said the guy was racist. What was said was that the statement was a racist stereotype. Sometimes things are said out of ignorance. You would hope when corrected, the guy would say, “oh I see how that can be taken as a stereotype”. But you would rather argue about such a low bar.

Again, I'm not specifically referring to the statement. I'm referring to where this, as Matnum PI says, "bigotry being confronted in a real way," can lead and revoke free speech.

You suggest just giving it a pass? How will someone learn? If you heard your son call a woman a b* tch, you wouldn’t tell him a woman may take it the wrong way? It’s “you didn’t mean it that way so don’t let these women shut you down”?

[MDlaxfan76]

Observation isn't racist. Stereotyping is racist. The NBA could be 99% black and "blacks are good basketball players" still wouldn't be true. The NBA has a high percentage of black basketball players would be true.

So if an Icelander leaves his first NBA experience (game) and says, "Boy, blacks are very good basketball players.", that's a racist statement?

A high percentage of blacks, or very high percentage?

Norwegians are good skiers.
Racist, stereotyping, or just true?

Too many are too quick to holler racist and stereotyping when that just isn't true, IMO.

They aren’t good basketball players because they are black. Those kids are good because it’s what they spend time on. The skiers from Scandinavia are good not because they are white, they are good because it’s what they spend time on. South American soccer players are not good because they are Latino, they are good because it’s what they spend time on.

The statement isn’t racist. It’s a stereotype. The two things are not the same but can be conflated.

And therein lies the problem. Who is interpreting the statement and why? Any nuance and/or context is immediately ignored by people like Matnum PI and doc, who seem to be following some, IMO, dangerous new religion based on a desire to control/interpret language, in order to shut down speech, and/or grab some moral high ground and power. When a large portion of society starts to adopt this religion (it's happening folks), people will begin not trusting each other and will fear to honestly express themselves for fear of losing their jobs or being physically beaten, i.e.

If you guys REALLY want to discuss this? Ok.

Statement: Norwegians are good skiers.
Racist, stereotyping, or just true?

This statement is demonstrably false. Start there. Start right there.

You're giving Matnum grief for calling out a statement as false. Can you explain why it is you feel the need to defend this incorrect, logical car crash of a statement?

No, Norwegians are NOT good skiers. Do I honestly need to walk you guys through the logically fallacy here?

OMG. A fan you don't get my point. I was not condoning the statement. I was defending the person's right to say it honestly and not be victim of some blanket interpretation immediately applied (without considering context or nuance) that brand them "racist." Now, due to this new so-called sensitivity, that person could face what are in many cases, dire ramifications for exercising free speech and having that speech misinterpreted.

Nobody said the guy was racist. What was said was that the statement was a racist stereotype. Sometimes things are said out of ignorance. You would hope when corrected, the guy would say, “oh I see how that can be taken as a stereotype”. But you would rather argue about such a low bar.

Again, I'm not specifically referring to the statement. I'm referring to where this, as Matnum PI says, "bigotry being confronted in a real way," can lead and revoke free speech.

A-holes risk being confronted for being a-holes, societally shunned by non-a-holes.

Is that "revoke free speech"?

Or do they have every right to say a-hole things and be a-holes? Free speech?

BTW, our free speech rights are only to be free from interference from government, not by other citizens, and even these rights have limitations.

So, sure a-holes get to say a-hole things and be a-holes.

But here's a 'conservative' outcome, there are consequences for being an a-hole and letting everyone know by saying a-hole things.

Now, if you just want people to give someone a second and even third chance to walk back, apologize for, statements they later realize were a-hole statements (in this case, racist stereotyping statements) then fine, I think people should be forgiven for past transgressions if they truly repent and apologize.

[MDlaxfan76]

Anyone ever wonder why there so few people who participate at this forum? Could it be that it oozes sanctiimonious judgement of others and belittling statements about their intellect and ability to comprehend.
Wow, what a bunch of uppity f**Ks!

So says the snowflake who can't handle the heat of critique and debate.

Look at the title of the thread.
Don't want to participate?
Don't.

[tech37]

Observation isn't racist. Stereotyping is racist. The NBA could be 99% black and "blacks are good basketball players" still wouldn't be true. The NBA has a high percentage of black basketball players would be true.

So if an Icelander leaves his first NBA experience (game) and says, "Boy, blacks are very good basketball players.", that's a racist statement?

A high percentage of blacks, or very high percentage?

Norwegians are good skiers.
Racist, stereotyping, or just true?

Too many are too quick to holler racist and stereotyping when that just isn't true, IMO.

They aren’t good basketball players because they are black. Those kids are good because it’s what they spend time on. The skiers from Scandinavia are good not because they are white, they are good because it’s what they spend time on. South American soccer players are not good because they are Latino, they are good because it’s what they spend time on.

The statement isn’t racist. It’s a stereotype. The two things are not the same but can be conflated.

And therein lies the problem. Who is interpreting the statement and why? Any nuance and/or context is immediately ignored by people like Matnum PI and doc, who seem to be following some, IMO, dangerous new religion based on a desire to control/interpret language, in order to shut down speech, and/or grab some moral high ground and power. When a large portion of society starts to adopt this religion (it's happening folks), people will begin not trusting each other and will fear to honestly express themselves for fear of losing their jobs or being physically beaten, i.e.

If you guys REALLY want to discuss this? Ok.

Statement: Norwegians are good skiers.
Racist, stereotyping, or just true?

This statement is demonstrably false. Start there. Start right there.

You're giving Matnum grief for calling out a statement as false. Can you explain why it is you feel the need to defend this incorrect, logical car crash of a statement?

No, Norwegians are NOT good skiers. Do I honestly need to walk you guys through the logically fallacy here?

OMG. A fan you don't get my point. I was not condoning the statement. I was defending the person's right to say it honestly and not be victim of some blanket interpretation immediately applied (without considering context or nuance) that brand them "racist." Now, due to this new so-called sensitivity, that person could face what are in many cases, dire ramifications for exercising free speech and having that speech misinterpreted.

Nobody said the guy was racist. What was said was that the statement was a racist stereotype. Sometimes things are said out of ignorance. You would hope when corrected, the guy would say, “oh I see how that can be taken as a stereotype”. But you would rather argue about such a low bar.

Again, I'm not specifically referring to the statement. I'm referring to where this, as Matnum PI says, "bigotry being confronted in a real way," can lead and revoke free speech.

You suggest just giving it a pass? How will someone learn? If you heard your son call a woman a b* tch, you wouldn’t tell him a woman may take it the wrong way? It’s “you didn’t mean it that way so don’t let these women shut you down”?

Well of course not! I'm obviously doing a bad job of making my point or you're jerking chains again as usual. Let's say it's the former and leave it there.

[hickorystick]

Anyone ever wonder why there so few people who participate at this forum? Could it be that it oozes sanctiimonious judgement of others and belittling statements about their intellect and ability to comprehend.
Wow, what a bunch of uppity f**Ks!

So says the snowflake who can't handle the heat of critique and debate.

Look at the title of the thread.
Don't want to participate?
Don't.

You didn't answer my question?
Snowflake? Ha!!!
You reverting to idiotic Trump supporter type talk now?
You know, the tough guy type talk.

[a fan]

OMG. A fan you don't get my point. I was not condoning the statement.

OMG, you don't get MY point. Where did I accuse you of condoning the statement? You also might notice I didn't pass judgement on the person making the statement.

I was defending the person's right to say it honestly and not be victim of some blanket interpretation immediately applied (without considering context or nuance) and brand them "racist." Now, due to this new so-called sensitivity.....

And my point, which you clearly missed is: maybe the sensitivity isn't the problem here?

Maybe the problem is, when you watch the Iroquois vs. Team USA, you come to the conclusion---and say out loud----"boy, white people are good at lacrosse".....the REAL problem here is: you're wrong. No, white people aren't good at lacrosse...What the heck are you talking about?

My point is: ignore the racism angle. Focus, instead, on saying something that's actually correct.

So continuing hickorystick's analogy, he could be at the Olympics and point at the competing Norwegians and say "boy THOSE (pointing at the group) Norwegians sure are good skiers".

Now he's actually correct. And guess what? Now he's not making a stupid, pointless, entirely and completely incorrect statement....and it's not a racist statement. Everyone wins, no PC needed.

Yep, some people take the racism stuff overboard sometimes (see: DocB). Yep, it's annoying.

But sometimes, the problem is you. (and I don't me you personally....I'm speaking generally)

You haven't noticed, but actual, real liberals are pushing back against the over the top, entirely illogical and frankly stupid far left.

Things will move back to the center. It's already happening, but it's just not on your radar.

[Matnum PI]

Walk into you office and tell one of your Jewish co-workers that they sure are good with money....let me know how that goes over. Not a buddy that will give you a pass but someone you don’t know, other than being Jewish.

Even if the guy isn't a buddy, the odds are good that he'll still get a pass. It's just how these things work. Who wants to engage with this person? You smile and nod. When confronted, you might even say, That's fine and smile. You just want this person to keep walking. In my experience, the person who says a generalization that's a compliment (e.g. basketball, money, etc.), in time, either in front of the person's face or behind their back, will also say a generalization that's substantially less complimentary. Distance...

MD, your description is spot on. It's like the final scenes in Spotlight. Nobody wants to admit they were part of the problem and not the solution but... This is precisely what Michael Keaton's character is forced to do. Or, more accurately, what he does. The final scenes in this film force us, if we're intellectual honest, to pause and think... What about me? Which is what is happening in America right now. Intellectually honest people are pausing, trying to do an honest assessment, and saying, What was and is my role with relation to racism towards blacks in america?

[seacoaster]

Walk into you office and tell one of your Jewish co-workers that they sure are good with money....let me know how that goes over. Not a buddy that will give you a pass but someone you don’t know, other than being Jewish.

Even if the guy isn't a buddy, the odds are good that he'll still get a pass. It's just how these things work. Who wants to engage with this person? You smile and nod. When confronted, you might even say, That's fine and smile. You just want this person to keep walking. In my experience, the person who says a generalization that's a compliment (e.g. basketball, money, etc.), in time, either in front of the person's face or behind their back, will also say a generalization that's substantially less complimentary. Distance...

MD, your description is spot on. It's like the final scenes in Spotlight. Nobody wants to admit they were part of the problem and not the solution but... This is precisely what Michael Keaton's character is forced to do. Or, more accurately, what he does. The final scenes in this film force us, if we're intellectual honest, to pause and think... What about me? Which is what is happening in America right now. Intellectually honest people are pausing, trying to do an honest assessment, and saying, What was and is my role with relation to racism towards blacks in america?

Good post. Thanks.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Walk into you office and tell one of your Jewish co-workers that they sure are good with money....let me know how that goes over. Not a buddy that will give you a pass but someone you don’t know, other than being Jewish.

Even if the guy isn't a buddy, the odds are good that he'll still get a pass. It's just how these things work. Who wants to engage with this person? You smile and nod. When confronted, you might even say, That's fine and smile. You just want this person to keep walking. In my experience, the person who says a generalization that's a compliment (e.g. basketball, money, etc.), in time, either in front of the person's face or behind their back, will also say a generalization that's substantially less complimentary. Distance...

MD, your description is spot on. It's like the final scenes in Spotlight. Nobody wants to admit they were part of the problem and not the solution but... This is precisely what Michael Keaton's character is forced to do. Or, more accurately, what he does. The final scenes in this film force us, if we're intellectual honest, to pause and think... What about me? Which is what is happening in America right now. Intellectually honest people are pausing, trying to do an honest assessment, and saying, What was and is my role with relation to racism towards blacks in america?

Sort of like, those people didn't complain so much in the 60's and 70's.... or in a grocery store and someone asks you to "show them where the bread is"....

[tech37]

OMG. A fan you don't get my point. I was not condoning the statement.

OMG, you don't get MY point. Where did I accuse you of condoning the statement? You also might notice I didn't pass judgement on the person making the statement.

I was defending the person's right to say it honestly and not be victim of some blanket interpretation immediately applied (without considering context or nuance) and brand them "racist." Now, due to this new so-called sensitivity.....

And my point, which you clearly missed is: maybe the sensitivity isn't the problem here?

Maybe the problem is, when you watch the Iroquois vs. Team USA, you come to the conclusion---and say out loud----"boy, white people are good at lacrosse".....the REAL problem here is: you're wrong. No, white people aren't good at lacrosse...What the heck are you talking about?

My point is: ignore the racism angle. Focus, instead, on saying something that's actually correct.

So continuing hickorystick's analogy, he could be at the Olympics and point at the competing Norwegians and say "boy THOSE (pointing at the group) Norwegians sure are good skiers".

Now he's actually correct. And guess what? Now he's not making a stupid, pointless, entirely and completely incorrect statement....and it's not a racist statement. Everyone wins, no PC needed.

Yep, some people take the racism stuff overboard sometimes (see: DocB). Yep, it's annoying.

But sometimes, the problem is you. (and I don't me you personally....I'm speaking generally)

You haven't noticed, but actual, real liberals are pushing back against the over the top, entirely illogical and frankly stupid far left.
Of course I've noticed...thank god they're pushing back but frankly, they're vastly outnumbered right now. If you disagree, please cite some examples.

Things will move back to the center. It's already happening, but it's just not on your radar. I disagree. I hope it's not too late but the genie may be out of the bottle. If Biden wins, things will not go back to center.

[MDlaxfan76]

Anyone ever wonder why there so few people who participate at this forum? Could it be that it oozes sanctiimonious judgement of others and belittling statements about their intellect and ability to comprehend.
Wow, what a bunch of uppity f**Ks!

So says the snowflake who can't handle the heat of critique and debate.

Look at the title of the thread.
Don't want to participate?
Don't.

You didn't answer my question?
Snowflake? Ha!!!
You reverting to idiotic Trump supporter type talk now?
You know, the tough guy type talk.

Yes, I used the quite ironic term of the Trumpist whiners. Snowflake.

Which question?
Why there aren't more people on fan lax yet?

You've made a total of 39 posts since inception, and suggest that the # of posters is because it "oozes sanctimonious judgement of others and belittling statements about their intellect and ability to comprehend." Then call such posters who do participate, "a bunch of uppity f**Ks!"

Cool, go away.

Or stay and engage without resorting to such crap.

[MDlaxfan76]

Walk into you office and tell one of your Jewish co-workers that they sure are good with money....let me know how that goes over. Not a buddy that will give you a pass but someone you don’t know, other than being Jewish.

Even if the guy isn't a buddy, the odds are good that he'll still get a pass. It's just how these things work. Who wants to engage with this person? You smile and nod. When confronted, you might even say, That's fine and smile. You just want this person to keep walking. In my experience, the person who says a generalization that's a compliment (e.g. basketball, money, etc.), in time, either in front of the person's face or behind their back, will also say a generalization that's substantially less complimentary. Distance...

MD, your description is spot on. It's like the final scenes in Spotlight. Nobody wants to admit they were part of the problem and not the solution but... This is precisely what Michael Keaton's character is forced to do. Or, more accurately, what he does. The final scenes in this film force us, if we're intellectual honest, to pause and think... What about me? Which is what is happening in America right now. Intellectually honest people are pausing, trying to do an honest assessment, and saying, What was and is my role with relation to racism towards blacks in america?

Good post. Thanks.

+1

[a fan]

Of course I've noticed...thank god they're pushing back but frankly, they're vastly outnumbered right now. If you disagree, please cite some examples

I wouldn't know what to search for, but I have come across a ton of pieces. Edit to add: now when I find them, I'll pass them along. Actual liberals are just as sick of the way-out-there, everyone is a racist nonsense as you are.

Remember last year, when everyone was freaking out, claiming "MeToo" is out of control, and the Republic would fall because of an endless barrage of false accusations?

And now in 2020? You don't hear boo about MeToo? Why? Because the actual ***holes who did horrible things to women are outed, and the rest of us normal Americans can get on with our lives. And if it happens again? Individuals....not the entirety of working America....will pay the price for truly abusive behavior.

I disagree. I hope it's not too late but the genie may be out of the bottle. If Biden wins, things will not go back to center.[/color][/b]

If Biden wins? What the heck does Joe Biden have to do with cultural issues?

That's right up there with "I'm voting for Trump because I'm sick of PC Culture".

Odd, voting for Trump didn't do a thing to change the course of what you call PC culture. It's almost as if one has nothing to do with the other.


Want a prediction? If Biden wins, American culture will settle down and take a breather. Biden is center right. People want some calm sanity for a while. 2020 has been a complete dumpster fire, and people are sick of it.

If you ask me? Every incumbent is in trouble this fall, regardless of party. Our Government, in the general sense, is falling apart. And reasonable people know it.

[Peter Brown]

Anyone ever wonder why there so few people who participate at this forum? Could it be that it oozes sanctiimonious judgement of others and belittling statements about their intellect and ability to comprehend.
Wow, what a bunch of uppity f**Ks!

You ran into the buzzsaw of liberals who typically infect political message boards around the country far more than their actual numbers.

Don't worry. You've been over the target all day here; their inanity is a sign you're doing something correctly.

[Peter Brown]

I really like Kanye West. This guy explains Democrats far better than Trump can. I might vote for him!

I cried at the thought of aborting my first born and everyone was so concerned about me... I’m concerned for the world that feels you shouldn’t cry about this subject.

https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/12 ... 17952?s=20

There is a tactic of 4 D’s; Distract.....Discredit........Dismiss...........Destroy
I am quite alright. Take a second and think about what is being projected here

https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/12 ... 37189?s=20

[foreverlax]

And black folks like being told they're good basketball players and good musicians and good dancers...

just reading this makes me cringe...
i'm amazed that this is even a discussion...

About 10 years ago my buddy, the big-time civil litigator, from a Liberal-as-Dukakis Irish Catholic family of 8, was getting his knee repaired using parts from a cadaver...he said, "I'm hopping it comes from an AA...I'd love to have a jump shot and be able to dance."

Rest assured, just a decade later, he would never utter anything similar.

(His family would regularly have "orphans" at the dinner table, especially at holidays - there was no prejudice of any sort. )

[foreverlax]

Anyone ever wonder why there so few people who participate at this forum? Could it be that it oozes sanctiimonious judgement of others and belittling statements about their intellect and ability to comprehend.
Wow, what a bunch of uppity f**Ks!

Nice entry...f'ed up the landing.

[tech37]

Of course I've noticed...thank god they're pushing back but frankly, they're vastly outnumbered right now. If you disagree, please cite some examples

I wouldn't know what to search for, but I have come across a ton of pieces. Edit to add: now when I find them, I'll pass them along. Actual liberals are just as sick of the way-out-there, everyone is a racist nonsense as you are.

Remember last year, when everyone was freaking out, claiming "MeToo" is out of control, and the Republic would fall because of an endless barrage of false accusations?

And now in 2020? You don't hear boo about MeToo? Why? Because the actual ***holes who did horrible things to women are outed, and the rest of us normal Americans can get on with our lives. And if it happens again? Individuals....not the entirety of working America....will pay the price for truly abusive behavior. That's not true. FoxNews is dealing with new accusations now. We haven't heard much in 2020 due to preoccupation with Covid (and rightly so) but also because things got too uncomfortable for liberals and the media due to accusations of Biden.

I disagree. I hope it's not too late but the genie may be out of the bottle. If Biden wins, things will not go back to center.[/color][/b]

If Biden wins? What the heck does Joe Biden have to do with cultural issues? Seriously? Biden winning puts power and control one step closer to the far left idiocy you referred to and that the Dems have been toying with. Depending on whom he chooses for VP certainly effects that. Picking Rice would be a much better hedge against the far left gaining more power than someone like Bass.

That's right up there with "I'm voting for Trump because I'm sick of PC Culture".

Odd, voting for Trump didn't do a thing to change the course of what you call PC culture. It's almost as if one has nothing to do with the other.


Want a prediction? If Biden wins, American culture will settle down and take a breather. Biden is center right. People want some calm sanity for a while. 2020 has been a complete dumpster fire, and people are sick of it.

If you ask me? Every incumbent is in trouble this fall, regardless of party. Our Government, in the general sense, is falling apart. And reasonable people know it. Time for a third party and none too soon.

[a fan]

Want a prediction? If Biden wins, American culture will settle down and take a breather. Biden is center right. People want some calm sanity for a while. 2020 has been a complete dumpster fire, and people are sick of it. ---edit to add: I realized this statement is unclear. What I mean is, having Biden as POTUS wouldn't be the cause of America settling down culturally. I meant that many will vote for Biden because they want calm, by way of comparison to Trump.

If you ask me? Every incumbent is in trouble this fall, regardless of party. Our Government, in the general sense, is falling apart. And reasonable people know it.