American Educational System

[a fan]

You know that about all your friends parents?
Couldn't begin to tell you how many parents I knew who went to college or not, minus a few.

For me, if my parents didn't know the family....I didn't get to play with them. You get to know folks real fast that way.

[DMac]

I don't believe that to be the norm by a long shot.
Lot of everybody and nobody going on here. You
guys all knew the education level of all your friend's
parents? I sure didn't and I'd doubt that most of the
people I grew up with did either. Don't ever remember
anyone asking me what college my parents went to and
what level they attained.
College was a privilege. It was, but it's not as if damn near
everyone and their brother, sister too, couldn't get in one.
Draft was going on, plenty of people who had no business
going did.

[old salt]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

More clueless assumptions & baseless projections.

A JuCo opened in our county two years before my class graduated & grew rapidly. An AA degree transferred all credits to any MO state U, including UMSL (a commuter university in StL) & Missouri School of Mines (now Missouri Tech) in nearby Rolla. Mizzou was just a 2-3 hr drive away.
That's where most of my schoolmates got their college degrees. Most of us were first generation college grads -- typical of the early boomer gen.

Any able bodied 16 year old male could get a UAW job at the nearby Chrysler plant, which would still be there waiting for them after they returned from enlisting or being drafted.

You're moving the goalposts around because you want to argue. I wrote "didn't fare as well as you did post graduation". You telling me that every kid you graduated with attended an Academy, got a nice paying job after your service, and have what you have in your bank account?

Of course not. You're getting annoyed again...and steering the conversation away from the topic at hand.

And it's because you don't know what to do about America's failed education standards. And that's fine.

That's not what I said & you know it. My HS WP buddy & I were the first in our HS's then 11 yr history to attend service academies.
Several more did so subsequent years. Off the top of my head, I can think of 2 classmates who went on to become lawyers, a dentist, & a Westvaco regional sales manager then plant manager. Several teachers & principals. They all did quite well.

One classmate went to the local JuCo for awhile, then worked at the McDonnell plant until his draft # came up, he joined the Army & became a Warrant Officer helo pilot. After returning from 2 combat tours in Vietnam, he began a helo charter & sightseeing service & flew a StL tv channel news chopper. He gained national fame when a woman charter passenger pulled a gun on him & highjacked his helo to fly to a nearby prison in So IL. Approaching the prison, he wrestled the gun away from her inflight, shot her dead & landed outside the prison. He made the national news. He remained a local hero. He sadly died, test flying an experimental he built.
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/th ... e-26943701

Any kid willing to stay awake & study could graduate, go to the local JuCo & transfer to a state u at a reasonable cost.
Many did, while working to pay for it.

I'm not moving the goal posts. I'm not arguing, you are.

I answered as completely & as forthrightly as I could, without statistics available to me.

[a fan]

I don't believe that to be the norm by a long shot.
Lot of everybody and nobody going on here. You
guys all knew the education level of all your friend's
parents? I sure didn't and I'd doubt that most of the
people I grew up with did either. Don't ever remember
anyone asking me what college my parents went to and
what level they attained.
College was a privilege. It was, but it's not as if damn near
everyone and their brother, sister too, couldn't get in one.
Draft was going on, plenty of people who had no business
going did.

I didn't say it was the norm....I spelled it out: the bulk of the kids in my neighborhood had engineers or some type of technical field for dads (one was a mom). And they liked talking about work.....so it's a natural question for a kid to ask a literal rocket scientist "how'd you learn how to do that?" I can think of three close friends where the parents met in college. To simplify: nerds. It was community filled with nerds.

So one of my Dad's friends? Climatologist out of CU Boulder. Met his wife there. Worked for Dept of Interior. in the same building as my dad. Had a son my age. Played soccer with him for a few years.

Cut from a different cloth, no argument there. But that was my experience. I'd imagine it would be like growing up in a college town, with parents as professors. You know what everyone studied or did for work.

[a fan]

I'm not moving the goal posts. I'm not arguing, you are.

Then don't quote me and write "more clueless and baseless assumptions". You were the top of your class, and did very well. This was obviously not the baseline experience at your HS....and that's all I was saying. No more, no less.

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

[DMac]

The bulk of the parents of the kids I grew up with worked at Goulds Pumps building pumps or Sylvania putting tubes in TVs.
Different worlds.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

Yup.

At Columbine HS, all the kids I knew even remotely well had two parents, both with college degrees. Littleton back then had three big employers: Lockheed Martin, Johns Mansville, and the Federal Center (my dad). Ken Caryl Ranch? A large planned community tucked into Littleton's foothills? Literally owned by Johns Mansville. It was an active Ranch from its founding in 1971, with cattle and the whole deal.

A lot of young engineers and managers were parents at our school. Result? Everyone I knew well went to a college. Most CU, CSU, Metro Denver, U of N Colorado. A few, like my fellow AP kids hit Ivies or their caliber. Wasn't a rich kid school then....upper middle class to middle class. No one was poor. All the finance kids and CEO's kids lived in Cherry Creek.

We were not average. Most of us started on 2nd base. A few, 3rd. Don't remember any kids that had already hit a home run without ever working.

I didn’t know anyone with parents that went to college.

My mother's father was the first. GI Bill, University of Maryland M Eng,....every kid would to go college whether they wanted to or not. My parents, Cornell & Syracuse for undergrad.

To me, that means I started on 2nd base. Some would say 3rd.

Out of 17 aunts and uncles 1 went to college. Outside of him, I didn’t know any adults that were college educated. I thought that was normal…none of my friends had parents that went to college. I didn’t know parents and grandparents went to college until I made friends in college…..will never forget my first trip to Baltimore….it was eye opening. I learned a lot from my friends there. Probably the most consequential experiences I had in my life. I loved going to Baltimore.

[a fan]

The bulk of the parents of the kids I grew up with worked at Goulds Pumps building pumps or Sylvania putting tubes in TVs.
Different worlds.

Very! That sounds like my dad's generation......One grandfather made candles in Syracuse with a mess of other factory workers. The other I just mentioned......my mom and her siblings grew up on military bases. My favorite stories and photos come from a base in Alaska.

[old salt]

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

Examine what worked in the past & don't be afraid to turn back the clock.

Teach kids to reason & think, not just manage their technology.

Back to basics. Leave the social engineering to the family.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The bulk of the parents of the kids I grew up with worked at Goulds Pumps building pumps or Sylvania putting tubes in TVs.
Different worlds.

Before industry was sold from underneath us in an effort to maximize shareholder value….we traded jobs and a decent quality of life for many for fatter 401ks for a few.

[DMac]

The bulk of the parents of the kids I grew up with worked at Goulds Pumps building pumps or Sylvania putting tubes in TVs.
Different worlds.

my mom and her siblings grew up on military bases. My favorite stories and photos come from a base in Alaska.

You needed to talk to them more about what it's like on a military base!!
As you know I spent a lot of years doing that too...thankfully not in Alaska.

[a fan]

Out of 17 aunts and uncles 1 went to college. Outside of him, I didn’t know any adults that were college educated. I thought that was normal…none of my friends had parents that went to college. I didn’t know parents and grandparents went to college until I met friends in college.

Huh. From your descriptions of various mukety-mucks you've met or known over the years, I wouldn't have guessed this.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

Examine what worked in the past & don't be afraid to turn back the clock.

Teach kids to reason & think, not just manage their technology.

Back to basics. Leave the social engineering to the family.

Reasoning and thinking is a quality liberal arts education. Wouldn’t trade mine for the world.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Out of 17 aunts and uncles 1 went to college. Outside of him, I didn’t know any adults that were college educated. I thought that was normal…none of my friends had parents that went to college. I didn’t know parents and grandparents went to college until I met friends in college.

Huh. From your descriptions of various mukety-mucks you've met or known over the years, I wouldn't have guessed this.

Yep. This is America.

[a fan]

The bulk of the parents of the kids I grew up with worked at Goulds Pumps building pumps or Sylvania putting tubes in TVs.
Different worlds.

my mom and her siblings grew up on military bases. My favorite stories and photos come from a base in Alaska.

You needed to talk to them more about what it's like on a military base!!
As you know I spent a lot of years doing that too...thankfully not in Alaska.

I have talked to them....they LOVED it. Especially Alaska.....playing in massive snow piles.

Probably why Grandpa settled in Syracuse! Fell in love with snow!

[a fan]

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

Examine what worked in the past & don't be afraid to turn back the clock.

Teach kids to reason & think, not just manage their technology.

Back to basics. Leave the social engineering to the family.

Reasoning and thinking is a quality liberal arts education. Wouldn’t trade mine for the world.

Nor mine. I did not acquire these skills in k-12.

[a fan]

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

Examine what worked in the past & don't be afraid to turn back the clock.

Teach kids to reason & think, not just manage their technology.

Back to basics. Leave the social engineering to the family.

Those are platitudes, albeit nice ones that I agree with....


As for social engineering....you telling me that your school didn't have school dances, homecoming Queens, and after school clubs? All social engineering. Even more of this engineering for Religious schools. Everyone turned out fine, right?

Your platitudes are where its at, coupled with a lack of resources. I learned to think in College and at home.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

Examine what worked in the past & don't be afraid to turn back the clock.

Teach kids to reason & think, not just manage their technology.

Back to basics. Leave the social engineering to the family.

Reasoning and thinking is a quality liberal arts education. Wouldn’t trade mine for the world.

Nor mine. I did not acquire these skills in k-12.

I have been fortunate and will talk to anyone. This is how you meet people and expand your circle. Walked into a tile/stone dealer two weeks ago. Met some initial hesitancy from the woman running the shop….saw a guy sitting in there reading a newspaper with a watchful eye. Struck up a conversation with him (Lebanese) and as it turned out, my wife is his daughter’s academic advisor and his son was 2 years behind my son at the same high school. I have since introduced his son to a friend of mine that is helping him find a job (as am I). This happens all the time when you talk to people….the woman was his sister in law.

[ardilla secreta]

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

Examine what worked in the past & don't be afraid to turn back the clock.

Teach kids to reason & think, not just manage their technology.

Back to basics. Leave the social engineering to the family.

Reasoning and thinking is a quality liberal arts education. Wouldn’t trade mine for the world.

Didn’t you say you were from Dayton?

My brother went to Mount Union. Made good use of his liberal arts education and history major to become an insurance executive and retire at 54.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Let's move on, unless you'd like to finally share your solutions to the K-12 problems we face in 2023......

Examine what worked in the past & don't be afraid to turn back the clock.

Teach kids to reason & think, not just manage their technology.

Back to basics. Leave the social engineering to the family.

Reasoning and thinking is a quality liberal arts education. Wouldn’t trade mine for the world.

Didn’t you say you were from Dayton?

My brother went to Mount Union. Made good use of his liberal arts education and history major to become an insurance executive and retire at 54.

Purple Raiders!! Friend played football there