Page 27 of 92
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:31 pm
by DocBarrister
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:40 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:35 pm
Rescue missions … NO.
That was never going to happen on any large scale. The evacuees need to come to the United States forces. That was always going to be the case in the closing weeks of the withdrawal.
DocBarrister
Tell that to the Brits & French. They've been doing it from the start.
How do you think our refugees have been getting in the past couple days. We're sending out buses to get them at rallying points.
With rare exceptions, those were conducted with the cooperation and consent of the Taliban.
https://news.yahoo.com/please-let-us-bu ... 40161.html
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... uxbndlbing
Those aren’t “rescue missions” in any kind of military sense.
The Taliban are shutting all of that down.
The United States has evacuated over 100,000 refugees. We’re never going to get everyone out. We were never going to get everyone out.
DocBarrister
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:39 pm
by DocBarrister
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:51 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:32 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:21 pm
jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:10 pm
... that wasn't my question? How many ASF are we taking out now? How many under your plan? Seems to me under your plan, it would have been the entire force.
That is unknowable. Probably just the ASF Commandos who'd be executed if captured. The others would have fought on longer if we were there. The others could still have surrendered after we left, if they did not want to resist. When an Army starts to come apart, it is not predictable.
You’re correct at least on that one point: “When an Army starts to come apart, it is not predictable.”
Whatever plans President Biden had made, he would have had to change those plans.
Our exit was never going to be orderly and predictable.
DocBarrister
...& by vacating Bagram (& forcing our NATO allies to vacate the air bases they controlled) before the final days, we hastened the collapse of the Afghan govt & the ASF, reduced our options to adapt & forced our retreat through a narrow killing field.
We could have had a full division and a full air wing at Bagram and that would not have prevented the fall of Kabul if we weren’t going to fight on the ground with the Afghan Security Forces.
The AFS wasn’t going to die for the Ghani government when they weren’t even being properly fed, armed, or paid. If U.S. forces were fighting on the ground with them? Sure, the ASF would probably have fought.
But is that what you wanted? U.S. forces continuing a war that should have ended long ago?
DocBarrister
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:41 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:10 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:06 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:04 pm
We backed the release of ISIS while we are scrambling to exit....good lord, this admin is really foolish. THanks for that tidbit.
We backed the new management team. They made the executive decisions….USA negotiated the release of Taliban fighters that went back to work upon release.
Odd....how you know that, but Kirby and the General do not. You truly are omniscient.
Odd that I know what? That we reached an Agreement with the Taliban and didn’t include the the Afghan government? Why do you think the Afghan “President” bounced? What have I pointed to that is not true?
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:44 pm
by old salt
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:31 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:40 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:35 pm
Rescue missions … NO.
That was never going to happen on any large scale. The evacuees need to come to the United States forces. That was always going to be the case in the closing weeks of the withdrawal.
DocBarrister
Tell that to the Brits & French. They've been doing it from the start.
How do you think our refugees have been getting in the past couple days. We're sending out buses to get them at rallying points.
With rare exceptions, those were conducted with the cooperation and consent of the Taliban.
https://news.yahoo.com/please-let-us-bu ... 40161.html
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... uxbndlbing
Those aren’t “rescue missions” in any kind of military sense.
The Taliban are shutting all of that down.
The United States has evacuated over 100,000 refugees. We’re never going to get everyone out. We were never going to get everyone out.
DocBarrister
The bus pick ups are being done with Taliban approval.
Do you consider this a rescue mission.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021 ... peace-live
If NGO's can rescue & extract that many people, just imagine how many our military could.
Since the Taliban swept into the Afghan capital, countries including the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, France and Germany have all conducted operations outside Kabul airport to retrieve stranded nationals.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:56 pm
by youthathletics
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:41 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:10 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:06 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:04 pm
We backed the release of ISIS while we are scrambling to exit....good lord, this admin is really foolish. THanks for that tidbit.
We backed the new management team. They made the executive decisions….USA negotiated the release of Taliban fighters that went back to work upon release.
Odd....how you know that, but Kirby and the General do not. You truly are omniscient.
Odd that I know what? That we reached an Agreement with the Taliban and didn’t include the the Afghan government? Why do you think the Afghan “President” bounced? What have I pointed to that is not true?
My post was specific on how ISIS was released, you said "They made the executive decisions"...referring to the Taliban, and yet Kirby and the Gen. are not sure who did it...as quoted in the article:
A reporter asked why he could be so sure the Taliban was not responsible for the attack, and if they are ruling out the Taliban because the United States depends on them right now.
Mr Kirby responded by saying he didn’t hear Central Command leader Gen Kenneth McKenzie put it that way.
“The general said there was a failure somewhere, obviously, and he even alluded to the fact it could have been at a Taliban checkpoint,” he said.
“So we’ve not been certain about that at all. There’ll be an investigation. We’ll try to learn as much as we can about what happened and I don’t really want to get ahead of that process.”
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:02 pm
by old salt
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:39 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:51 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:32 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:21 pm
jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:10 pm
... that wasn't my question? How many ASF are we taking out now? How many under your plan? Seems to me under your plan, it would have been the entire force.
That is unknowable. Probably just the ASF Commandos who'd be executed if captured. The others would have fought on longer if we were there. The others could still have surrendered after we left, if they did not want to resist. When an Army starts to come apart, it is not predictable.
You’re correct at least on that one point: “When an Army starts to come apart, it is not predictable.”
Whatever plans President Biden had made, he would have had to change those plans.
Our exit was never going to be orderly and predictable.
DocBarrister
...& by vacating Bagram (& forcing our NATO allies to vacate the air bases they controlled) before the final days, we hastened the collapse of the Afghan govt & the ASF, reduced our options to adapt & forced our retreat through a narrow killing field.
We could have had a full division and a full air wing at Bagram and that would not have prevented the fall of Kabul if we weren’t going to fight on the ground with the Afghan Security Forces.
The AFS wasn’t going to die for the Ghani government when they weren’t even being properly fed, armed, or paid. If U.S. forces were fighting on the ground with them? Sure, the ASF would probably have fought.
But is that what you wanted? U.S. forces continuing a war that should have ended long ago?
DocBarrister
So you think Biden & his propeller heads planned this, expecting the Afghan govt & the ASF to implode before we could get out ?
...& a full division & air wing was what it would have taken ? What would a full division have done if they were not going to fight on the ground ?
You do know our ground combat ops ended in 2014 don't you ? Remember Obama taking credit for it ? What do you think our forces have been doing since 2014 ?
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:11 pm
by cradleandshoot
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:56 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:41 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:06 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:04 pm
We backed the rele ftase of ISIS while we are scrambling to exit....good lord, this admin is really foolish. THanks for that tidbit.
We backed the new management team. They made the executive decisions….USA negotiated the release of Taliban fighters that went back to work upon release.
Odd....how you know that, but Kirby and the General do not. You truly are omniscient.
Odd that I know what? That we reached an Agreement with the Taliban and didn’t include the the Afghan government? Why do you think the Afghan “President” bounced? What have I pointed to that is not true?
My post was specific on how ISIS was released, you said "They made the executive decisions"...referring to the Taliban, and yet Kirby and the Gen. are not sure who did it...as quoted in the article:
A reporter asked why he could be so sure the Taliban was not responsible for the attack, and if they are ruling out the Taliban because the United States depends on them right now.
Mr Kirby responded by saying he didn’t hear Central Command leader Gen Kenneth McKenzie put it that way.
“The general said there was a failure somewhere, obviously, and he even alluded to the fact it could have been at a Taliban checkpoint,” he said.
“So we’ve not been certain about that at all. There’ll be an investigation. We’ll try to learn as much as we can about what happened and I don’t really want to get ahead of that process.”
There no doubt will be all kinds of investigations and hearings and all kinds of thus and such. The 64 thousand dollar question is who takes the blame for this chaotic eff up? Some poor dumb SOB will draw the short straw.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:14 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:56 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:41 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:10 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:06 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:04 pm
We backed the release of ISIS while we are scrambling to exit....good lord, this admin is really foolish. THanks for that tidbit.
We backed the new management team. They made the executive decisions….USA negotiated the release of Taliban fighters that went back to work upon release.
Odd....how you know that, but Kirby and the General do not. You truly are omniscient.
Odd that I know what? That we reached an Agreement with the Taliban and didn’t include the the Afghan government? Why do you think the Afghan “President” bounced? What have I pointed to that is not true?
My post was specific on how ISIS was released, you said "They made the executive decisions"...referring to the Taliban, and yet Kirby and the Gen. are not sure who did it...as quoted in the article:
A reporter asked why he could be so sure the Taliban was not responsible for the attack, and if they are ruling out the Taliban because the United States depends on them right now.
Mr Kirby responded by saying he didn’t hear Central Command leader Gen Kenneth McKenzie put it that way.
“The general said there was a failure somewhere, obviously, and he even alluded to the fact it could have been at a Taliban checkpoint,” he said.
“So we’ve not been certain about that at all. There’ll be an investigation. We’ll try to learn as much as we can about what happened and I don’t really want to get ahead of that process.”
My bad. I thought you concluded that the Taliban let them out. Lots of things could have been done better. We could not “defeat” the Taliban but the folks we trained would be more capable….perfectly logical.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:28 pm
by old salt
There are 14 charted airports in Afghanistan which could easily accommodate a C-130.
A C-130 can lift 2 x Abrams tanks, so 2 buses should fit.
If we are such hated occupiers, why are so many Afghanis afraid that we are leaving & desperate to come home with us ?
I cringe every time I hear about how we are going to take retribution on ISIS-K from over the horizon. Which horizon would that be ?
Whose airspace are we going to penetrate & transit to carry out an airstrike or special forces insertion/extraction ?
Pakistan ? ...we can trust them ?
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:44 pm
by youthathletics
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:53 pm
by old salt
Let's hoist a glass to 2bk. I really miss that guy.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:06 pm
by tech37
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:53 pm
Let's hoist a glass to 2bk. I really miss that guy.
just poured and hoisting... actually, started pouring earlier but oh well
So interesting reading the old LP posts...thanks youth
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:20 pm
by youthathletics
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:06 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:53 pm
Let's hoist a glass to 2bk. I really miss that guy.
just poured and hoisting... actually, started pouring earlier but oh well
So interesting reading the old PL posts...thanks youth
Consider it done OS. Curious was he also Lax Fidelis...I signed on about 2012 I believe, and do not recall chatting with him.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:26 pm
by cradleandshoot
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:06 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:53 pm
Let's hoist a glass to 2bk. I really miss that guy.
just poured and hoisting... actually, started pouring earlier but oh well
So interesting reading the old PL posts...thanks youth
Here, here to 2BK.. He was a true gentleman and a patriot. He gave some very comforting advice that helped me much. He was the personification of what an army officer is suppose to be.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:27 pm
by cradleandshoot
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:30 pm
by Kismet
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:20 pm
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:06 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:53 pm
Let's hoist a glass to 2bk. I really miss that guy.
just poured and hoisting... actually, started pouring earlier but oh well
So interesting reading the old PL posts...thanks youth
Consider it done OS. Curious was he also Lax Fidelis...I signed on about 2012 I believe, and do not recall chatting with him.
Although Lax Fidelis had many aliases, 2BK and Lax Fidelis were two different people. Unique and witty beyond measure. They had quite a coterie of other interesting and weird personalities like Sixpackman, Ivyman, imp, Swami, Artful Dodger, and many many others.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:44 pm
by a fan
Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:30 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:20 pm
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:06 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:53 pm
Let's hoist a glass to 2bk. I really miss that guy.
just poured and hoisting... actually, started pouring earlier but oh well
So interesting reading the old PL posts...thanks youth
Consider it done OS. Curious was he also Lax Fidelis...I signed on about 2012 I believe, and do not recall chatting with him.
Although Lax Fidelis had many aliases, 2BK and Lax Fidelis were two different people. Unique and witty beyond measure. They had quite a coterie of other interesting and weird personalities like Sixpackman, Ivyman and Swami and many others.
They are all missed.
I keep in touch with Frauknees. I'll let her know that the crew is thinking of her husband. I'm sure she'll be delighted to hear it.
Cheers to 2bk, indeed, Old Salt....and cheers to you and the rest who post here...
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:03 pm
by tech37
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:44 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:30 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:20 pm
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:06 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:53 pm
Let's hoist a glass to 2bk. I really miss that guy.
just poured and hoisting... actually, started pouring earlier but oh well
So interesting reading the old PL posts...thanks youth
Consider it done OS. Curious was he also Lax Fidelis...I signed on about 2012 I believe, and do not recall chatting with him.
Although Lax Fidelis had many aliases, 2BK and Lax Fidelis were two different people. Unique and witty beyond measure. They had quite a coterie of other interesting and weird personalities like Sixpackman, Ivyman and Swami and many others.
They are all missed.
I keep in touch with Frauknees. I'll let her know that the crew is thinking of her husband. I'm sure she'll be delighted to hear it.
Cheers to 2bk, indeed, Old Salt....and cheers to you and the rest who post here...
There goes the neighborhood...
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:05 pm
by tech37
Just kidding a fan. Join the conversation! Just don't suck me into the vortex
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:20 pm
by a fan
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:05 pm
Just kidding a fan. Join the conversation! Just don't suck me into the vortex
Greatly appreciated, tech....but I'd much rather see you cats in person over a drink (as I did with both LaxFi and 2badknees all those years ago).
And no...no more vortexes! That much I promise you. Have a great weekend!
And since I'm here for just this moment-----sad to hear of the loss of life, including our young marines. Hoist one to them as well.