2022 NYS Public High School State Tournament

[thedisciple516]

Was hoping one of the Section 1 teams would survive the semis. Oh well. Feel like the LI/Westchester semis are often the de facto finals.

not to worry. section 3 and 5 have 34 championships, section 1 has 10, 7 of those from yorktown.

section 1 has 2 in A (or all classes) in 45 years, and none since 1996.
2 in B in almost 30 years, and 2 in C&D (D just got started) total in the 22 years they've had that.

How many for section 8?

i dunno. look it up and pick a time frame. from 2000 on or so 11 and 8 have won a bunch. so has 3/5. 3 and 5 have won 21 i think since about 2020 and 1 has won maybe 3 or 4. which is why i posted on nyjay's post, which i considered specious. he's sticking with it.
3, 8 and 11 are all semi equal since this all started. but li guys like to bunch the 2.

I already admitted I was wrong. My simple point is the LI (both Nassau and Suffolk) is the best region on the state. The LI champ is going to be the favorite most years. Section 1 suffers from having to play the LI champ every year in the semis. As I said before, no disrespect intended to upstate, but I’m not a fan of the upstate/ downstate semis.

yes and that's fine.
if you didn't catch it, my point was that by saying what you did originally, that's pretty insulting to a lot of teams. in particular to the 21 teams who've gone on to win state championships against whoever was the downstate champion, whereas section one has one several. that's a pretty big disparity, wouldn't you agree?

section 1 also gets to get into the semis by playing an out section occasionally and then section 2, who has won even fewer.

and once again, 3 and 8 and 11 are all about equal overall. 8 and 11 have probably been stronger lately. maybe the winds change. but section 1's champs have been fewer and further between fwiw.

by the way, i love section 1 and all of the ny state tournament.

Your point is well made. I would prefer seeded (rather than regional) semis. That’s my point. It was poorly stated initially.

Given statewide demographics the thesis I’d expect is that Section 3 (and 4/5 though 4 may already be dead big picture) to outperform in class C&D, maybe B, and LI to do better in A & B. School districts shrinking in upstate more frequently than LI.

Conversely you could have regional consolidation into larger schools covering bigger geographic areas possibly. But no doubt upstate is changing due to what’s going on in general up there.

They are shrinking pretty fast on Long Island as well. West Islip jumps out. 3,800 kids in the school district next year. 5,300 10 years ago. There are similar decreases in other districts. It's a statewide thing with suburban districts. They're going to have to change the class cut offs at some point or there won't be many A schools playing in class A.

[LI13]

Was hoping one of the Section 1 teams would survive the semis. Oh well. Feel like the LI/Westchester semis are often the de facto finals.

not to worry. section 3 and 5 have 34 championships, section 1 has 10, 7 of those from yorktown.

section 1 has 2 in A (or all classes) in 45 years, and none since 1996.
2 in B in almost 30 years, and 2 in C&D (D just got started) total in the 22 years they've had that.

How many for section 8?

i dunno. look it up and pick a time frame. from 2000 on or so 11 and 8 have won a bunch. so has 3/5. 3 and 5 have won 21 i think since about 2020 and 1 has won maybe 3 or 4. which is why i posted on nyjay's post, which i considered specious. he's sticking with it.
3, 8 and 11 are all semi equal since this all started. but li guys like to bunch the 2.

I already admitted I was wrong. My simple point is the LI (both Nassau and Suffolk) is the best region on the state. The LI champ is going to be the favorite most years. Section 1 suffers from having to play the LI champ every year in the semis. As I said before, no disrespect intended to upstate, but I’m not a fan of the upstate/ downstate semis.

yes and that's fine.
if you didn't catch it, my point was that by saying what you did originally, that's pretty insulting to a lot of teams. in particular to the 21 teams who've gone on to win state championships against whoever was the downstate champion, whereas section one has one several. that's a pretty big disparity, wouldn't you agree?

section 1 also gets to get into the semis by playing an out section occasionally and then section 2, who has won even fewer.

and once again, 3 and 8 and 11 are all about equal overall. 8 and 11 have probably been stronger lately. maybe the winds change. but section 1's champs have been fewer and further between fwiw.

by the way, i love section 1 and all of the ny state tournament.

Your point is well made. I would prefer seeded (rather than regional) semis. That’s my point. It was poorly stated initially.

Given statewide demographics the thesis I’d expect is that Section 3 (and 4/5 though 4 may already be dead big picture) to outperform in class C&D, maybe B, and LI to do better in A & B. School districts shrinking in upstate more frequently than LI.

Conversely you could have regional consolidation into larger schools covering bigger geographic areas possibly. But no doubt upstate is changing due to what’s going on in general up there.

They are shrinking pretty fast on Long Island as well. West Islip jumps out. 3,800 kids in the school district next year. 5,300 10 years ago. There are similar decreases in other districts. It's a statewide thing with suburban districts. They're going to have to change the class cut offs at some point or there won't be many A schools playing in class A.

Yup. When I graduated high school, Northport had over 6500 kids in the district. Down to 4800 now.

But of course adding Class D was a move in the opposite direction, and it's left a lot of traditional A powers (including West Genny and West Islip) in B.

[thedisciple516]

Was hoping one of the Section 1 teams would survive the semis. Oh well. Feel like the LI/Westchester semis are often the de facto finals.

not to worry. section 3 and 5 have 34 championships, section 1 has 10, 7 of those from yorktown.

section 1 has 2 in A (or all classes) in 45 years, and none since 1996.
2 in B in almost 30 years, and 2 in C&D (D just got started) total in the 22 years they've had that.

How many for section 8?

i dunno. look it up and pick a time frame. from 2000 on or so 11 and 8 have won a bunch. so has 3/5. 3 and 5 have won 21 i think since about 2020 and 1 has won maybe 3 or 4. which is why i posted on nyjay's post, which i considered specious. he's sticking with it.
3, 8 and 11 are all semi equal since this all started. but li guys like to bunch the 2.

I already admitted I was wrong. My simple point is the LI (both Nassau and Suffolk) is the best region on the state. The LI champ is going to be the favorite most years. Section 1 suffers from having to play the LI champ every year in the semis. As I said before, no disrespect intended to upstate, but I’m not a fan of the upstate/ downstate semis.

yes and that's fine.
if you didn't catch it, my point was that by saying what you did originally, that's pretty insulting to a lot of teams. in particular to the 21 teams who've gone on to win state championships against whoever was the downstate champion, whereas section one has one several. that's a pretty big disparity, wouldn't you agree?

section 1 also gets to get into the semis by playing an out section occasionally and then section 2, who has won even fewer.

and once again, 3 and 8 and 11 are all about equal overall. 8 and 11 have probably been stronger lately. maybe the winds change. but section 1's champs have been fewer and further between fwiw.

by the way, i love section 1 and all of the ny state tournament.

Your point is well made. I would prefer seeded (rather than regional) semis. That’s my point. It was poorly stated initially.

Given statewide demographics the thesis I’d expect is that Section 3 (and 4/5 though 4 may already be dead big picture) to outperform in class C&D, maybe B, and LI to do better in A & B. School districts shrinking in upstate more frequently than LI.

Conversely you could have regional consolidation into larger schools covering bigger geographic areas possibly. But no doubt upstate is changing due to what’s going on in general up there.

They are shrinking pretty fast on Long Island as well. West Islip jumps out. 3,800 kids in the school district next year. 5,300 10 years ago. There are similar decreases in other districts. It's a statewide thing with suburban districts. They're going to have to change the class cut offs at some point or there won't be many A schools playing in class A.

Yup. When I graduated high school, Northport had over 6500 kids in the district. Down to 4800 now.

But of course adding Class D was a move in the opposite direction, and it's left a lot of traditional A powers (including West Genny and West Islip) in B.

Pretty crazy actually. Northport was graduating 500 kids a year ten years ago. Some of the elementary school classes have less than 300. It might actually be worse on Long Island.

[Farfromgeneva]

So the moral being presented is Long Island has worse demographic prospects and better lacrosse or something like that?

Any chance you’ve spent any time in sections 3-6 territories? Buffalo is actually doing ok with more mid level back & middle office jobs in areas like servicing and processing for mortgage and agency CRE lending. (Arbor and JPM have added jobs, Arbor is LI based founded by a guy named Ivan Kaufman ironically given this conversation) but Roch/Syracuse/Elmira/Binghamton are, and have been, hurting for 25-35yrs. Kodak, Carrier, Xerox, Bausch and Laumb, First Niagara, etc. don’t have a NYC next door to drive employment but you do have some messy politicians like Souzzi driving those credit ratings to junk territory.

[tothedraw]

So the moral being presented is Long Island has worse demographic prospects and better lacrosse or something like that?

Any chance you’ve spent any time in sections 3-6 territories? Buffalo is actually doing ok with more mid level back & middle office jobs in areas like servicing and processing for mortgage and agency CRE lending. (Arbor and JPM have added jobs, Arbor is LI based founded by a guy named Ivan Kaufman ironically given this conversation) but Roch/Syracuse/Elmira/Binghamton are, and have been, hurting for 25-35yrs. Kodak, Carrier, Xerox, Bausch and Laumb, First Niagara, etc. don’t have a NYC next door to drive employment but you do have some messy politicians like Souzzi driving those credit ratings to junk territory.

Victor is the only section 5 school district to have any stability or growth in last 15 + years. Everyone else is shrinking. Canandaigua is a borderline C school and Penfield dropped to B. Pittsford plays in A because they combine their two high schools into one lacrosse program. Don't even start with the socio economic's of many/most districts in 3-6. Any narrative that LI is doing more with less would be ridiculous.

[LI13]

Was hoping one of the Section 1 teams would survive the semis. Oh well. Feel like the LI/Westchester semis are often the de facto finals.

not to worry. section 3 and 5 have 34 championships, section 1 has 10, 7 of those from yorktown.

section 1 has 2 in A (or all classes) in 45 years, and none since 1996.
2 in B in almost 30 years, and 2 in C&D (D just got started) total in the 22 years they've had that.

How many for section 8?

i dunno. look it up and pick a time frame. from 2000 on or so 11 and 8 have won a bunch. so has 3/5. 3 and 5 have won 21 i think since about 2020 and 1 has won maybe 3 or 4. which is why i posted on nyjay's post, which i considered specious. he's sticking with it.
3, 8 and 11 are all semi equal since this all started. but li guys like to bunch the 2.

I already admitted I was wrong. My simple point is the LI (both Nassau and Suffolk) is the best region on the state. The LI champ is going to be the favorite most years. Section 1 suffers from having to play the LI champ every year in the semis. As I said before, no disrespect intended to upstate, but I’m not a fan of the upstate/ downstate semis.

yes and that's fine.
if you didn't catch it, my point was that by saying what you did originally, that's pretty insulting to a lot of teams. in particular to the 21 teams who've gone on to win state championships against whoever was the downstate champion, whereas section one has one several. that's a pretty big disparity, wouldn't you agree?

section 1 also gets to get into the semis by playing an out section occasionally and then section 2, who has won even fewer.

and once again, 3 and 8 and 11 are all about equal overall. 8 and 11 have probably been stronger lately. maybe the winds change. but section 1's champs have been fewer and further between fwiw.

by the way, i love section 1 and all of the ny state tournament.

Your point is well made. I would prefer seeded (rather than regional) semis. That’s my point. It was poorly stated initially.

Given statewide demographics the thesis I’d expect is that Section 3 (and 4/5 though 4 may already be dead big picture) to outperform in class C&D, maybe B, and LI to do better in A & B. School districts shrinking in upstate more frequently than LI.

Conversely you could have regional consolidation into larger schools covering bigger geographic areas possibly. But no doubt upstate is changing due to what’s going on in general up there.

They are shrinking pretty fast on Long Island as well. West Islip jumps out. 3,800 kids in the school district next year. 5,300 10 years ago. There are similar decreases in other districts. It's a statewide thing with suburban districts. They're going to have to change the class cut offs at some point or there won't be many A schools playing in class A.

Yup. When I graduated high school, Northport had over 6500 kids in the district. Down to 4800 now.

But of course adding Class D was a move in the opposite direction, and it's left a lot of traditional A powers (including West Genny and West Islip) in B.

Pretty crazy actually. Northport was graduating 500 kids a year ten years ago. Some of the elementary school classes have less than 300. It might actually be worse on Long Island.

My class (2006) was 445. The next several were over 500.

Just last year, the Board of Education voted to close 2 of our 6 elementary schools. So they must not think it is going to change soon.

[thedisciple516]

So the moral being presented is Long Island has worse demographic prospects and better lacrosse or something like that?

Any chance you’ve spent any time in sections 3-6 territories? Buffalo is actually doing ok with more mid level back & middle office jobs in areas like servicing and processing for mortgage and agency CRE lending. (Arbor and JPM have added jobs, Arbor is LI based founded by a guy named Ivan Kaufman ironically given this conversation) but Roch/Syracuse/Elmira/Binghamton are, and have been, hurting for 25-35yrs. Kodak, Carrier, Xerox, Bausch and Laumb, First Niagara, etc. don’t have a NYC next door to drive employment but you do have some messy politicians like Souzzi driving those credit ratings to junk territory.

A lot of it is just cyclical demographics. 2000-2010 was peak enrollment for suburban schools because that's when children of baby boomers were in high school (or something like that).

[Peter Brown]

So the moral being presented is Long Island has worse demographic prospects and better lacrosse or something like that?

Any chance you’ve spent any time in sections 3-6 territories? Buffalo is actually doing ok with more mid level back & middle office jobs in areas like servicing and processing for mortgage and agency CRE lending. (Arbor and JPM have added jobs, Arbor is LI based founded by a guy named Ivan Kaufman ironically given this conversation) but Roch/Syracuse/Elmira/Binghamton are, and have been, hurting for 25-35yrs. Kodak, Carrier, Xerox, Bausch and Laumb, First Niagara, etc. don’t have a NYC next door to drive employment but you do have some messy politicians like Souzzi driving those credit ratings to junk territory.

A lot of it is just cyclical demographics. 2000-2010 was peak enrollment for suburban schools because that's when children of baby boomers were in high school (or something like that).

I have a friend who owns a second home on Long Island Nassau county. Second home mind you. Empty nester. It’s a nice house, I won’t lie. Five acres. His property taxes are $90,000/year. Of that, about $75,000 are school taxes. Of that, roughly 70% goes to pay the pensions of long ago retired teachers and administrators, or $52,500 goes to people he’s never met nor ever will, who don’t work any longer for the school district, the vast majority of whom have left New York for Florida where there’s no income tax and property taxes are very low unless you are Tiger Woods.

Very little of this obscene amount of property tax (he’s already a NYC income tax payer, meaning his effective combined earned income rate of Fed/State/City is well over 50%) pays for any *current* education or athletics.

I’m not sure how you fellas stand for this. I can’t imagine young families with kids can afford this burden. I suspect these tax rates are adding to the decline in school kids.

[thedisciple516]

Well this is interesting. Baldwinsville plays Mountain Lakes (NJ) in some kind of national showcase on Thursday. Involves returning players only.

https://www.syracuse.com/highschoolspor ... -game.html

[Nigel]

Was hoping one of the Section 1 teams would survive the semis. Oh well. Feel like the LI/Westchester semis are often the de facto finals.

not to worry. section 3 and 5 have 34 championships, section 1 has 10, 7 of those from yorktown.

section 1 has 2 in A (or all classes) in 45 years, and none since 1996.
2 in B in almost 30 years, and 2 in C&D (D just got started) total in the 22 years they've had that.

I think it's a different world these days, but you're obviously right on a historical basis. As a Westchester guy, feels like very good teams get beaten by LI teams that go on to win the championship on regular basis. No disrespect meant to Upstate, which clearly has a much better tradition than Westchester. Briarcliff and Rye were both legitimately good this year.

Bronxville in 23. Chris Patterson going off for 6/gn in playoffs. Book it

It's '23 and Bronxville was a bad bet. Hope you didn't place the bet.

[Farfromgeneva]

Was hoping one of the Section 1 teams would survive the semis. Oh well. Feel like the LI/Westchester semis are often the de facto finals.

not to worry. section 3 and 5 have 34 championships, section 1 has 10, 7 of those from yorktown.

section 1 has 2 in A (or all classes) in 45 years, and none since 1996.
2 in B in almost 30 years, and 2 in C&D (D just got started) total in the 22 years they've had that.

I think it's a different world these days, but you're obviously right on a historical basis. As a Westchester guy, feels like very good teams get beaten by LI teams that go on to win the championship on regular basis. No disrespect meant to Upstate, which clearly has a much better tradition than Westchester. Briarcliff and Rye were both legitimately good this year.

Bronxville in 23. Chris Patterson going off for 6/gn in playoffs. Book it

It's '23 and Bronxville was a bad bet. Hope you didn't place the bet.

I bet like Duke and Mortimer. Low risk and create havoc all around me in the course of it all. Learned from watching Doc Barrister going back to when college FR were in wombs.

Believe he was named AA however.

Guess I have to root for Briarcliff as a buddy’s son graduated last year from there and is at Richmond now (played very sparingly at attack, maybe two games, one tail end against Bart)