media matters

[old salt]

There's never been a rescue/recovery op at anywhere near that depth.
They're off the continental shelf.

Its only way to surface is to release a weight & float to the surface.
If weight released & still intact it will rise to the surface.

Evasive about when they lost comms.
They'll call it a rescue mission so long as it's theoretically possible they still have O2 for 96 hrs.

Okay - but as long as they characterize the operation as rescue and not recovery the media are not going jump the gun and go further as you suggest.

May explain why you are not in the media.

They reported the following from the CG press briefing today -

"We don't know what they are, to be frank with you," U.S. Coast Guard Capt. Jamie Frederick says of the underwater noises detected in the search area for the missing sub.

"When you're in the middle of a search and rescue case, you always have hope."

I plead guilty to not being a media ghoul.

They need to temper their hope. They lost comms 1.75 hrs into a 3 hr descent. No ping every 15 min as sched. No text msgs for nav guidance. Part of the ballast holding them down are sand bags designed to dissolve well before now.

The only realistic hope is that they drifted & surfaced, are not able to communicate, & have not been sighted on the surface.

It's a rube goldberg contraption, designed & operated to skirt all regulations & oversight. I
t's safety concerns have been raised before. The recriminations will be swift & harsh.

Like I said, perhaps good that you are not part of the media.
Nobody is forcing you to watch the coverage either.

I'll break out a police scanner & see if there's any car wreck responses I can go watch.

[youthathletics]

[runrussellrun]

There's never been a rescue/recovery op at anywhere near that depth.
They're off the continental shelf.

Its only way to surface is to release a weight & float to the surface.
If weight released & still intact it will rise to the surface.

Evasive about when they lost comms.
They'll call it a rescue mission so long as it's theoretically possible they still have O2 for 96 hrs.

Okay - but as long as they characterize the operation as rescue and not recovery the media are not going jump the gun and go further as you suggest.

May explain why you are not in the media.

They reported the following from the CG press briefing today -

"We don't know what they are, to be frank with you," U.S. Coast Guard Capt. Jamie Frederick says of the underwater noises detected in the search area for the missing sub.

"When you're in the middle of a search and rescue case, you always have hope."

I plead guilty to not being a media ghoul.

They need to temper their hope. They lost comms 1.75 hrs into a 3 hr descent. No ping every 15 min as sched. No text msgs for nav guidance. Part of the ballast holding them down are sand bags designed to dissolve well before now.

The only realistic hope is that they drifted & surfaced, are not able to communicate, & have not been sighted on the surface.

It's a rube goldberg contraption, designed & operated to skirt all regulations & oversight. I
t's safety concerns have been raised before. The recriminations will be swift & harsh.

Like I said, perhaps good that you are not part of the media.
Nobody is forcing you to watch the coverage either.

I'll break out a police scanner & see if there's any car wreck responses I can go watch.

bunch of rich douche bags..........good riddance.

[Kismet]

There's never been a rescue/recovery op at anywhere near that depth.
They're off the continental shelf.

Its only way to surface is to release a weight & float to the surface.
If weight released & still intact it will rise to the surface.

Evasive about when they lost comms.
They'll call it a rescue mission so long as it's theoretically possible they still have O2 for 96 hrs.

Okay - but as long as they characterize the operation as rescue and not recovery the media are not going jump the gun and go further as you suggest.

May explain why you are not in the media.

They reported the following from the CG press briefing today -

"We don't know what they are, to be frank with you," U.S. Coast Guard Capt. Jamie Frederick says of the underwater noises detected in the search area for the missing sub.

"When you're in the middle of a search and rescue case, you always have hope."

I plead guilty to not being a media ghoul.

They need to temper their hope. They lost comms 1.75 hrs into a 3 hr descent. No ping every 15 min as sched. No text msgs for nav guidance. Part of the ballast holding them down are sand bags designed to dissolve well before now.

The only realistic hope is that they drifted & surfaced, are not able to communicate, & have not been sighted on the surface.

It's a rube goldberg contraption, designed & operated to skirt all regulations & oversight. I
t's safety concerns have been raised before. The recriminations will be swift & harsh.

Like I said, perhaps good that you are not part of the media.
Nobody is forcing you to watch the coverage either.

I'll break out a police scanner & see if there's any car wreck responses I can go watch.

It's a free country - If that floats your boat go for it.

That said, if you were upset with the coverage earlier in the week, you are really going to hate it today as they found a debris field at the bottom near their last position. The initial speculation is that the vehicle imploded Sunday at depth near the Titanic wreck. Turns out that the spouse of the CEO/pilot who likely perished is a great-great granddaughter of Isidore & Ida Straus who also both famously perished when the Titanic sank in 1912.

Coast Guard briefing at 3PM Thursday by the Admiral not the captain who had been doing briefings should tell you something is up,.

[youthathletics]

https://news.usni.org/2023/06/22/coast- ... anic-wreck

Coast Guard: Titan Submersible Suffered ‘Catastrophic Loss,’ Debris Found Near Titanic Wreck By: Heather Mongilio
June 22, 2023 3:15 PM

[old salt]

Looks like an instantaneous catastrophic implosion.
If so, they were gone before they felt anything or realized there was a problem.
No suffering. RIP.

[runrussellrun]

Looks like an instantaneous catastrophic implosion.
If so, they were gone before they felt anything or realized there was a problem.
No suffering. RIP.

I feel the need to go see Blink 182.........

....and how many NON billionares died last week in the waters near Greece?

can't rule ORCA's out......or other whales. Moby dick was real......

[Brooklyn]

Looks like an instantaneous catastrophic implosion.
If so, they were gone before they felt anything or realized there was a problem.
No suffering. RIP.

I've been watching WFLA News 8 from Florida on youtube. A gentleman they've been interviewing said there was some knocking. He said there may have been some indication of technical difficulty before the implosion. Therefore it may have been possible they were aware something was terribly amiss before the catastrophe struck. Frightening thought.

I also heard the vessel went there without any back up plan for any possible exigencies. Why they would go that way without a back up or safety plan is beyond me.

Canadian Transit Safety Board to conduct follow up investigation.

Let's hope all these folks will have learned a valuable lesson and make contingency plan before the next venture.

[old salt]

I've been watching WFLA News 8 from Florida on youtube. A gentleman they've been interviewing said there was some knocking. He said there may have been some indication of technical difficulty before the implosion. Therefore it may have been possible they were aware something was terribly amiss before the catastrophe struck. Frightening thought.

Who would have heard it ? They lost comms at 1hr & 45min into the mission. The noise the Coast Guard reported in their briefings was detected via sonobuoys deployed by the Canadian P-3 aircraft well after the search began. The debris pattern suggests an catastrophic implosion & breakup during descent. Sonbuoys, especially at their deepest settings (only 1000 ft down) pick up ambient noise from great distances. They are used tactically to detect submarines & surface ships by acoustic digital analysis of machine noise, based on frequency of operating equipment. Ambient noise is filtered out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Frequ ... d_Recorder

[Brooklyn]

All I know is what they report. Now I hear that the debris trail is of parts of the vessel which had imploded. Thus, doom for the crew. Very sad. As I said before, let's hope this gives all involved a very valuable set of lessons which can be used to advance technology and to prevent any possible difficulty of any kind.

[MDlaxfan76]

I've been watching WFLA News 8 from Florida on youtube. A gentleman they've been interviewing said there was some knocking. He said there may have been some indication of technical difficulty before the implosion. Therefore it may have been possible they were aware something was terribly amiss before the catastrophe struck. Frightening thought.

Who would have heard it ? They lost comms at 1hr & 45min into the mission. The noise the Coast Guard reported in their briefings was detected via sonobuoys deployed by the Canadian P-3 aircraft well after the search began. The debris pattern suggests an catastrophic implosion & breakup during descent. Sonbuoys, especially at their deepest settings (only 1000 ft down) pick up ambient noise from great distances. They are used tactically to detect submarines & surface ships by acoustic digital analysis of machine noise, based on frequency of operating equipment. Ambient noise is filtered out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Frequ ... d_Recorder

I could be wrong, but I think he meant that the passengers may have known something was wrong before it happened...some amount of time before the final end. Which would be "frightening" for whatever time before the end.

But I think your scenario is nevertheless most likely, a relatively sudden catastrophic event on the way down, overwhelming any automated or human attempt to surface.

It was the only submersible design of its type, bypassing known, stressed tested designs and materials so that it could be larger and hold passengers...for profit. It certainly makes sense that repeated stresses ended disastrously.

Sad situation, likely was over early on.

[old salt]

I've been watching WFLA News 8 from Florida on youtube. A gentleman they've been interviewing said there was some knocking. He said there may have been some indication of technical difficulty before the implosion. Therefore it may have been possible they were aware something was terribly amiss before the catastrophe struck. Frightening thought.

Who would have heard it ? They lost comms at 1hr & 45min into the mission. The noise the Coast Guard reported in their briefings was detected via sonobuoys deployed by the Canadian P-3 aircraft well after the search began. The debris pattern suggests an catastrophic implosion & breakup during descent. Sonbuoys, especially at their deepest settings (only 1000 ft down) pick up ambient noise from great distances. They are used tactically to detect submarines & surface ships by acoustic digital analysis of machine noise, based on frequency of operating equipment. Ambient noise is filtered out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Frequ ... d_Recorder

I could be wrong, but I think he meant that the passengers may have known something was wrong before it happened...some amount of time before the final end. Which would be "frightening" for whatever time before the end.

But I think your scenario is nevertheless most likely, a relatively sudden catastrophic event on the way down, overwhelming any automated or human attempt to surface.

It was the only submersible design of its type, bypassing known, stressed tested designs and materials so that it could be larger and hold passengers...for profit. It certainly makes sense that repeated stresses ended disastrously.

Sad situation, likely was over early on.

If they realized something was wrong during the descent they had multiple emergency means to initiate an immediate return to the surface.
Losing the comm channel necessary to navigate on the ocean floor would have been cause to immediately abort & return to the surface.

[Brooklyn]

I could be wrong, but I think he meant that the passengers may have known something was wrong before it happened...some amount of time before the final end. Which would be "frightening" for whatever time before the end.

But I think your scenario is nevertheless most likely, a relatively sudden catastrophic event on the way down, overwhelming any automated or human attempt to surface.

It was the only submersible design of its type, bypassing known, stressed tested designs and materials so that it could be larger and hold passengers...for profit. It certainly makes sense that repeated stresses ended disastrously.

Sad situation, likely was over early on.

James Cameron was just interviewed on ABC News. He said the real problem is the lack of safety and preventive regulation along with the unwillingness of profit seeking corporate capitalists to take proper preventive measures. As with the Titanic warnings went unheeded. Disaster resulted from this hubris which causes people to feel they can do no wrong. Cameron also said let's hope valuable lessons can be learned from all this.

[MDlaxfan76]

I've been watching WFLA News 8 from Florida on youtube. A gentleman they've been interviewing said there was some knocking. He said there may have been some indication of technical difficulty before the implosion. Therefore it may have been possible they were aware something was terribly amiss before the catastrophe struck. Frightening thought.

Who would have heard it ? They lost comms at 1hr & 45min into the mission. The noise the Coast Guard reported in their briefings was detected via sonobuoys deployed by the Canadian P-3 aircraft well after the search began. The debris pattern suggests an catastrophic implosion & breakup during descent. Sonbuoys, especially at their deepest settings (only 1000 ft down) pick up ambient noise from great distances. They are used tactically to detect submarines & surface ships by acoustic digital analysis of machine noise, based on frequency of operating equipment. Ambient noise is filtered out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Frequ ... d_Recorder

I could be wrong, but I think he meant that the passengers may have known something was wrong before it happened...some amount of time before the final end. Which would be "frightening" for whatever time before the end.

But I think your scenario is nevertheless most likely, a relatively sudden catastrophic event on the way down, overwhelming any automated or human attempt to surface.

It was the only submersible design of its type, bypassing known, stressed tested designs and materials so that it could be larger and hold passengers...for profit. It certainly makes sense that repeated stresses ended disastrously.

Sad situation, likely was over early on.

If they realized something was wrong during the descent they had multiple emergency means to initiate an immediate return to the surface.
Losing the comm channel necessary to navigate on the ocean floor would have been cause to immediately abort & return to the surface.

I quite agree. I posted yesterday about someone on CNN that morning talking about those measures, whether human or automated...the catastrophe had to be overwhelming of any such measures. In all probability it happened in a rush. They may actually have begun ascent, but the pressures don't go away altogether just because you're headed up. But more likely never rose, I think.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I've been watching WFLA News 8 from Florida on youtube. A gentleman they've been interviewing said there was some knocking. He said there may have been some indication of technical difficulty before the implosion. Therefore it may have been possible they were aware something was terribly amiss before the catastrophe struck. Frightening thought.

Who would have heard it ? They lost comms at 1hr & 45min into the mission. The noise the Coast Guard reported in their briefings was detected via sonobuoys deployed by the Canadian P-3 aircraft well after the search began. The debris pattern suggests an catastrophic implosion & breakup during descent. Sonbuoys, especially at their deepest settings (only 1000 ft down) pick up ambient noise from great distances. They are used tactically to detect submarines & surface ships by acoustic digital analysis of machine noise, based on frequency of operating equipment. Ambient noise is filtered out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Frequ ... d_Recorder

I could be wrong, but I think he meant that the passengers may have known something was wrong before it happened...some amount of time before the final end. Which would be "frightening" for whatever time before the end.

But I think your scenario is nevertheless most likely, a relatively sudden catastrophic event on the way down, overwhelming any automated or human attempt to surface.

It was the only submersible design of its type, bypassing known, stressed tested designs and materials so that it could be larger and hold passengers...for profit. It certainly makes sense that repeated stresses ended disastrously.

Sad situation, likely was over early on.

If they realized something was wrong during the descent they had multiple emergency means to initiate an immediate return to the surface.
Losing the comm channel necessary to navigate on the ocean floor would have been cause to immediately abort & return to the surface.

I quite agree. I posted yesterday about someone on CNN that morning talking about those measures, whether human or automated...the catastrophe had to be overwhelming of any such measures. In all probability it happened in a rush. They may actually have begun ascent, but the pressures don't go away altogether just because you're headed up. But more likely never rose, I think.

I heard James Cameron and another expert say that the buoyancy bags were released. Seems like there wasn’t a lot of time between ascent and implosion. Cameron said the carbon fiber hull was a faulty design and he critiqued it when he was building a sub for trench diving. This may explain why the rescuers were initially scouring the surface for the vessel. I figured something had gone wrong if they had not deployed the buoyancy bags. I never understood why they weren’t released….then I heard today that they were.

[Kismet]

The fatal implosion likely occurred Sunday in the water column of descent before any rescue assets were deployed.

They may learn something from any debris that they can recover but even that is a long shot IMHO

I don't know how Cameron can know that they buoyancy bags were released. The Triton is in pieces on the ocean floor a few hundred meters from the bow of the Titanic wreck

[Typical Lax Dad]

The fatal implosion likely occurred Sunday in the water column of descent before any rescue assets were deployed.

They may learn something from any debris that they can recover but even that is a long shot IMHO

I don't know how Cameron can know that they buoyancy bags were released. The Triton is in pieces on the ocean floor a few hundred meters from the bow of the Titanic wreck

I have no idea. That’s what was said and I was surprised to hear that because I speculated that the crew was incapacitated and that’s why the bags weren’t released. It was actually a very good interview with him and another expert. He could be wrong though.

Good interview….He says it his and the other guy’s understanding… but again he could be wrong. Maybe 8:20 mark

[Kismet]

Maybe he knows something that is not generally known from someone inside the company. I'm sure the people investigating this tragedy will want to talk to him and those inside the company who told him this. If true, cannot believe they didn't tell the CG and all those people involved in the rescue operation.

Of course, then there is this from the WSJ - wonder if and when USN shared this with rescue teams. Seems like it could have informed their search much earlier

"A top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission."


From NYT

"A senior U.S. Navy official said that the Navy had, through acoustic analysis, “detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost.” The official said that the identification was “not definitive,” the information was immediately shared with the search effort, and that the decision was made to continue searching to “make every effort to save the lives on board.”"

Would still like to know how Cameron seems to know that the hull may have been breaking up and that ballast was deployed for an immediate ascent - initial reports seem to indicate that the destruction of the vehicle occurred in the vicinity just above the Titanic wreck 2 miles down

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe he knows something that is not generally known from someone inside the company. I'm sure the people investigating this tragedy will want to talk to him and those inside the company who told him this. If true, cannot believe they didn't tell the CG and all those people involved in the rescue operation.

Of course, then there is this from the WSJ - wonder if and when USN shared this with rescue teams. Seems like it could have informed their search much earlier

"A top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission."

I thought the exact same thing you did. I was surprised by his comment but again he could be wrong but he seemed to say it with confidence. I thought he may have known something too.

[old salt]

No sir Commander, we're sure it wasn't a whale fart.

Confidence confirming in our undersea acoustic detection & locating system.

That will provide a precise time of implosion to correlate with the descent profile.