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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:36 am
by Seacoaster(1)
On whether Thomas should recuse:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... sal-jan-6/

"No one should be quick to call for Supreme Court justices to recuse themselves from deciding cases.

The high court is unique. When lower court judges deem themselves disqualified, colleagues can easily step in to fill the void. That can’t happen at the Supreme Court. The absence of a justice can leave the court evenly split, an outcome that simply leaves the lower court decision in place without any guidance from the top.

Given the stakes involved, that is not a good outcome. As the Supreme Court’s new code of conduct explains, “A Justice is presumed impartial and has an obligation to sit unless disqualified.”

So, demands for recusal shouldn’t be lightly made, and justices shouldn’t quickly resort to that solution notwithstanding the clamor. Nonetheless, there are situations where law and common sense clearly counsel a justice to step aside.

That’s where things stand in the matter of Justice Clarence Thomas and the suite of Jan. 6-related cases now heading toward the Supreme Court. The extensive — indeed, passionate — involvement of the justice’s wife, Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, in challenging the election results is a textbook example of a situation that requires recusal.

Echoing the underlying federal law, the ethics code says a justice should recuse in situations where “the Justice’s impartiality might reasonably be questioned, that is, where an unbiased and reasonable person who is aware of all relevant circumstances would doubt that the Justice could fairly discharge his or her duties.”

Could any unbiased and reasonable person doubt that Ginni Thomas’s avid participation in the “Stop the Steal” movement rises to that level? Justices’ spouses have every right to pursue separate careers, including careers in politics and advocacy, as Ginni Thomas chose. But those choices have consequences when cases in which they have an interest reach the Supreme Court. Consider:

· In the weeks after the 2020 election, Ginni Thomas sent a series of urgent texts to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows encouraging him to prevent what she termed “the greatest Heist of our History.” Ginni Thomas referenced “a conversation with my best friend just now” — a description she has used to refer to her husband — as part of her effort “to keep holding on.” She urged that Sidney Powell — who is an unnamed co-conspirator in the federal Jan. 6 Trump indictment and pleaded guilty in the Georgia election interference case — should be made “the lead and the face” of Trump’s legal team.

· Ginni Thomas lobbied lawmakers in Wisconsin and Arizona to set aside Joe Biden’s victory and choose a different slate of pro-Trump presidential electors. “Please stand strong in the face of media and political pressure,” she wrote on Nov. 9, 2020. “Please reflect on the awesome authority granted to you by our Constitution. And then please take action to ensure that a clean slate of Electors is chosen for our state.”

· Ginni Thomas emailed with John Eastman, the lawyer and former Clarence Thomas clerk who argued that Vice President Mike Pence had the authority to block certification of Biden’s victory. Eastman is an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal election interference case against Trump and has been charged in Georgia as well.

· Finally, Ginni Thomas attended the “Stop the Steal” rally on Jan. 6, 2021.

Now consider the Jan. 6-related cases that have reached or are about to reach the high court. The justices have been asked to grant an expedited hearing on Trump’s claims that he enjoys absolute immunity from prosecution for his activities as president. It agreed to hear a challenge to the federal law prohibiting obstruction of a congressional proceeding, which has been used to prosecute Trump along with Jan. 6 protesters. And it will be called on to consider whether, as the Colorado Supreme Court just ruled, Trump can be disqualified from running under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

Certainly, a spouse’s political activities can’t be automatically attributed to their partner. “Like so many married couples, we share many of the same ideals, principles, and aspirations for America. But we have our own separate careers, and our own ideas and opinions too,” Ginni Thomas told the Washington Free Beacon. “Clarence doesn’t discuss his work with me, and I don’t involve him in my work.”

Fine, but Ginni Thomas’s avid and multipronged fight to prevent Biden from taking office fits the recusal standard to a T — Clarence Thomas’s “impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” She was too involved, too entwined with the bid to overturn the election results — and some of the leading players in that bid — to have her husband sit on cases involving the aftermath of those very efforts.

The recusal rules are much better at dealing with relatively picayune matters of financial conflicts than they are at sorting through these deeper issues of bias. It’s clear, for example, that justices should recuse themselves if they hold stock in a company with a pending case, or if their spouse is a partner in a law firm representing a client before the court.

The paradox is that the more consequential the potential conflict, the more malleable the standards become. That is particularly problematic because, as the court made clear in its new code and accompanying commentary, justices determine for themselves whether they are disqualified — no one can make them do it.

As a practical matter, I suspect Thomas’s vote won’t be determinative in the presidential immunity and Section 3 cases; the scope of the obstruction statute is likely to be a closer case. The safer bet is that Thomas won’t recuse himself, but it’s not out of the question. After all, when an appeal by Eastman reached the high court in October, Thomas did announce that he did not participate in the decision not to hear the case, although he provided no explanation.

“Individual Justices, rather than the Court, decide recusal issues,” the court observed in releasing its new ethics code. Which means Thomas will be the judge of himself. But in this tumultuous term, it is the entire court whose reputation will suffer if he chooses not to step aside."

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:50 am
by Kismet
Clarence the Weasel is NOT recusing from ANY of these cases. :oops: :oops:

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:52 am
by Seacoaster(1)
Kismet wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:50 am Clarence the Weasel is NOT recusing from ANY of these cases. :oops: :oops:
That is what virtually every comment on the article said. No one believes he'll take a pass.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am
by DMac
Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:01 am
by dislaxxic
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:20 amI'm not as smart legally as you will ever be.
umm...oh, never mind.

In other news...

Who here thinks that all this court stuff, collectively, will find MORE voters for Orange Duce than the ones that are already cemented in in his favor? MAGAts gonna vote MAGAt, full stop.

Will OD pick Nikki to run with him? That will LOOK formidable at first, but you gotta wonder if ol' Dumpster Fire will be able to handle having someone more pretty than him on the ticket with him...right?

..

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:09 am
by dislaxxic
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?
Speaking for myself, i agree with Luttig, that it is impeccable legal reasoning. The "strict constructionists" risk looking like the dope McConnell when he ignored his own words and pushed Comey Barrett through. What way does SCOTUS find to somehow sidestep or delay this issue without supporting the Rule of Law? Will they (the high court's "strict cons") follow their OFTEN STATED position of just "calling balls and strikes", setting completely aside the political implications of the issue and uphold the thorough legal reasoning of the SCOCOL decision, or will they elevate one man above the Rule of Law?

Fascinating setup for sure. Deliciously ironic that the Roberts Court is being pushed into this (AND the immunity case) very tight-looking corner...

..

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:53 am
by Seacoaster(1)
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?
No idea. The issue is completely novel, and I doubt anyone knows what they will do with the many issues presented. If you made me guess, I would predict the Court majority will find a way to use the last sentence of Section 3 -- "But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability" -- to construct an argument/holding that the issue is committed to the Legislative Branch and is not suitable for judicial review. Which I think is complete bullsh*t, and a really bad idea as a matter of policy.

Pretty good article/blog post from the Cato Institute (a conservative libertarian think tank) on the case:

https://www.cato.org/blog/agree-it-or-n ... h-judicial

Here is the snip that deals with the Congress only/political question doctrine issue:

"Next, the court tackled whether the case involved a political question that’s inappropriate for judicial review. Under the political question doctrine, courts refrain from getting involved if there is a “textually demonstrable constitutional commitment of the issue to a coordinate political department; or a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards for resolving it.’”

The court observed that the Constitution doesn’t say who determines whether a person has engaged in insurrection. Congress is textually authorized to pass implementing regulations, but it is not textually committed to doing so. And the court would not “abdicate its duty” to decide merely because the case has political implications.

While Trump did not argue that the case is also nonjusticiable based on a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards (and he, therefore, waived any such argument), the court addressed it anyway “in the interest of providing a thorough review.” Determining whether someone has engaged in insurrection, it said, is no different than the type of interpretive questions it must answer in the average constitutional case. And indeed while the term seems vague, courts have interpreted the term “insurrection” in other contexts.

“In our view,” the court said, “declining to decide an issue simply because it requires us to address difficult and weighty questions of constitutional interpretation would create a slippery slope that could lead to a prohibited dereliction of our constitutional duty to adjudicate cases that are properly before us.” Whoa! This is one of the best endorsements of judicial engagement to come out of a court opinion in years."

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:54 am
by Kismet
dislaxxic wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:09 am
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?
Speaking for myself, i agree with Luttig, that it is impeccable legal reasoning. The "strict constructionists" risk looking like the dope McConnell when he ignored his own words and pushed Comey Barrett through. What way does SCOTUS find to somehow sidestep or delay this issue without supporting the Rule of Law? Will they (the high court's "strict cons") follow their OFTEN STATED position of just "calling balls and strikes", setting completely aside the political implications of the issue and uphold the thorough legal reasoning of the SCOCOL decision, or will they elevate one man above the Rule of Law?

Fascinating setup for sure. Deliciously ironic that the Roberts Court is being pushed into this (AND the immunity case) very tight-looking corner...

..
Don't think the Supremes are going to go for this - textualists or not.
My personal view is to leave him on the ballot and watch him get his butt kicked yet again.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:10 am
by DMac
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:53 am
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?
No idea. The issue is completely novel, and I doubt anyone knows what they will do with the many issues presented. If you made me guess, I would predict the Court majority will find a way to use the last sentence of Section 3 -- "But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability" -- to construct an argument/holding that the issue is committed to the Legislative Branch and is not suitable for judicial review. Which I think is complete bullsh*t, and a really bad idea as a matter of policy.

Pretty good article/blog post from the Cato Institute (a conservative libertarian think tank) on the case:

https://www.cato.org/blog/agree-it-or-n ... h-judicial

Here is the snip that deals with the Congress only/political question doctrine issue:

"Next, the court tackled whether the case involved a political question that’s inappropriate for judicial review. Under the political question doctrine, courts refrain from getting involved if there is a “textually demonstrable constitutional commitment of the issue to a coordinate political department; or a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards for resolving it.’”

The court observed that the Constitution doesn’t say who determines whether a person has engaged in insurrection. Congress is textually authorized to pass implementing regulations, but it is not textually committed to doing so. And the court would not “abdicate its duty” to decide merely because the case has political implications.

While Trump did not argue that the case is also nonjusticiable based on a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards (and he, therefore, waived any such argument), the court addressed it anyway “in the interest of providing a thorough review.” Determining whether someone has engaged in insurrection, it said, is no different than the type of interpretive questions it must answer in the average constitutional case. And indeed while the term seems vague, courts have interpreted the term “insurrection” in other contexts.

“In our view,” the court said, “declining to decide an issue simply because it requires us to address difficult and weighty questions of constitutional interpretation would create a slippery slope that could lead to a prohibited dereliction of our constitutional duty to adjudicate cases that are properly before us.” Whoa! This is one of the best endorsements of judicial engagement to come out of a court opinion in years."
Thanks. I'm thinking the bed this POTUS (Piece Of Trash Under Siege) made for himself isn't real comfy these days.
Still boggles my mind how many of my fellow citizens see this guy as the person they want for their president.
Horrible person is understating.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:39 am
by Typical Lax Dad
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:10 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:53 am
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?
No idea. The issue is completely novel, and I doubt anyone knows what they will do with the many issues presented. If you made me guess, I would predict the Court majority will find a way to use the last sentence of Section 3 -- "But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability" -- to construct an argument/holding that the issue is committed to the Legislative Branch and is not suitable for judicial review. Which I think is complete bullsh*t, and a really bad idea as a matter of policy.

Pretty good article/blog post from the Cato Institute (a conservative libertarian think tank) on the case:

https://www.cato.org/blog/agree-it-or-n ... h-judicial

Here is the snip that deals with the Congress only/political question doctrine issue:

"Next, the court tackled whether the case involved a political question that’s inappropriate for judicial review. Under the political question doctrine, courts refrain from getting involved if there is a “textually demonstrable constitutional commitment of the issue to a coordinate political department; or a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards for resolving it.’”

The court observed that the Constitution doesn’t say who determines whether a person has engaged in insurrection. Congress is textually authorized to pass implementing regulations, but it is not textually committed to doing so. And the court would not “abdicate its duty” to decide merely because the case has political implications.

While Trump did not argue that the case is also nonjusticiable based on a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards (and he, therefore, waived any such argument), the court addressed it anyway “in the interest of providing a thorough review.” Determining whether someone has engaged in insurrection, it said, is no different than the type of interpretive questions it must answer in the average constitutional case. And indeed while the term seems vague, courts have interpreted the term “insurrection” in other contexts.

“In our view,” the court said, “declining to decide an issue simply because it requires us to address difficult and weighty questions of constitutional interpretation would create a slippery slope that could lead to a prohibited dereliction of our constitutional duty to adjudicate cases that are properly before us.” Whoa! This is one of the best endorsements of judicial engagement to come out of a court opinion in years."
Thanks. I'm thinking the bed this POTUS (Piece Of Trash Under Siege) made for himself isn't real comfy these days.
Still boggles my mind how many of my fellow citizens see this guy as the person they want for their president.
Horrible person is understating.
Joe’s son was a drug addict and didn’t pay his taxes and his daughter didn’t pay about $4,000 in taxes either. We can do better with Trump. Higher character.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:52 am
by cradleandshoot
dislaxxic wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:09 am
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?
Speaking for myself, i agree with Luttig, that it is impeccable legal reasoning. The "strict constructionists" risk looking like the dope McConnell when he ignored his own words and pushed Comey Barrett through. What way does SCOTUS find to somehow sidestep or delay this issue without supporting the Rule of Law? Will they (the high court's "strict cons") follow their OFTEN STATED position of just "calling balls and strikes", setting completely aside the political implications of the issue and uphold the thorough legal reasoning of the SCOCOL decision, or will they elevate one man above the Rule of Law?

Fascinating setup for sure. Deliciously ironic that the Roberts Court is being pushed into this (AND the immunity case) very tight-looking corner...

..
When were you released from prison??? I hope all local authorities have been notified? :o Liberal on the loose...liberal on the loose...liberal on the loose...

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:34 am
by DMac
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:39 am
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:10 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:53 am
DMac wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am Seacoaster, what is your gut feeling about the SC's ruling on Trump's eligibility?
No idea. The issue is completely novel, and I doubt anyone knows what they will do with the many issues presented. If you made me guess, I would predict the Court majority will find a way to use the last sentence of Section 3 -- "But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability" -- to construct an argument/holding that the issue is committed to the Legislative Branch and is not suitable for judicial review. Which I think is complete bullsh*t, and a really bad idea as a matter of policy.

Pretty good article/blog post from the Cato Institute (a conservative libertarian think tank) on the case:

https://www.cato.org/blog/agree-it-or-n ... h-judicial

Here is the snip that deals with the Congress only/political question doctrine issue:

"Next, the court tackled whether the case involved a political question that’s inappropriate for judicial review. Under the political question doctrine, courts refrain from getting involved if there is a “textually demonstrable constitutional commitment of the issue to a coordinate political department; or a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards for resolving it.’”

The court observed that the Constitution doesn’t say who determines whether a person has engaged in insurrection. Congress is textually authorized to pass implementing regulations, but it is not textually committed to doing so. And the court would not “abdicate its duty” to decide merely because the case has political implications.

While Trump did not argue that the case is also nonjusticiable based on a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards (and he, therefore, waived any such argument), the court addressed it anyway “in the interest of providing a thorough review.” Determining whether someone has engaged in insurrection, it said, is no different than the type of interpretive questions it must answer in the average constitutional case. And indeed while the term seems vague, courts have interpreted the term “insurrection” in other contexts.

“In our view,” the court said, “declining to decide an issue simply because it requires us to address difficult and weighty questions of constitutional interpretation would create a slippery slope that could lead to a prohibited dereliction of our constitutional duty to adjudicate cases that are properly before us.” Whoa! This is one of the best endorsements of judicial engagement to come out of a court opinion in years."
Thanks. I'm thinking the bed this POTUS (Piece Of Trash Under Siege) made for himself isn't real comfy these days.
Still boggles my mind how many of my fellow citizens see this guy as the person they want for their president.
Horrible person is understating.
Joe’s son was a drug addict and didn’t pay his taxes and his daughter didn’t pay about $4,000 in taxes either. We can do better with Trump. Higher character.
The Trump discussion with those under his spell in a nutshell.
Say something about Trump and the answer is yea but Joe and his son.
Unbelievable. Wasn't talking about Joe and his son, was talking about
Trump. Deflect, divert, deceive...the art of the deal.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:46 pm
by njbill
Supreme Court has rejected Jack Smith’s request to fast track a decision on Trump’s immunity claim. So now the matter will be heard by the DC Circuit. Oral argument is set for January 9.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:05 pm
by Seacoaster(1)
njbill wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:46 pm Supreme Court has rejected Jack Smith’s request to fast track a decision on Trump’s immunity claim. So now the matter will be heard by the DC Circuit. Oral argument is set for January 9.
So...good thing the DC Circuit scheduled this on the assumption that the Supremes would play dodgeball for a while. Seems like the trial date (March 4) is in some jeopardy though, no?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:30 pm
by njbill
Sure does.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:40 pm
by youthathletics
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:05 pm
njbill wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:46 pm Supreme Court has rejected Jack Smith’s request to fast track a decision on Trump’s immunity claim. So now the matter will be heard by the DC Circuit. Oral argument is set for January 9.
So...good thing the DC Circuit scheduled this on the assumption that the Supremes would play dodgeball for a while. Seems like the trial date (March 4) is in some jeopardy though, no?
I would think fast tracking any of Trumps trials, is to the benefit of the prosecutor, and by delaying, it helps Trump in the end. Maybe Jack is intentionally setting the table?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:01 pm
by youthathletics
Listened to this two part podcast today. Worth a listen for those that want to hear some inside intel from one of Trumps lawyers, Tim Parlatore. Tim discusses all the jan 6 event stuff, litigation, 91 indictments, classified docs, stormy Daniels etc. Tim does a really good job breaking everything down in to smaller pieces; very intriguing how he processes each of the charges.

He had some interesting stories about all the January 6 stuff that some may not have heard.


https://youtu.be/16Qvj8k7wdA?si=B97HG-HNIfyl9hBz

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:45 pm
by Kismet
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:01 pm Listened to this two part podcast today. Worth a listen for those that want to hear some inside intel from one of Trumps lawyers, Tim Parlatore. Tim discusses all the jan 6 event stuff, litigation, 91 indictments, classified docs, stormy Daniels etc. Tim does a really good job breaking everything down in to smaller pieces; very intriguing how he processes each of the charges.

He had some interesting stories about all the January 6 stuff that some may not have heard.


https://youtu.be/16Qvj8k7wdA?si=B97HG-HNIfyl9hBz
Parlatore is a FORMER Orange Fatso lawyer. He quit months ago and now is a cable talking head acting like he's current. Fits right in with that crowd. No wonder you think he's a genius. :oops: He always comes up with these "insights" that never turn out to mean anything.
Ask yourself why he isn't part of the legal team any longer before you take anything he says to the bank. Just another grifter.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:51 pm
by ggait
J6 trial not happening before election.

Docs case trial not happening before election.


Scotus will overturn Colorado decision on due process and federalism grounds.

So legal processes are not stopping trump. Only voters can stop trump. Which is the right way to do it.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:01 pm
by jhu72
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:01 pm Listened to this two part podcast today. Worth a listen for those that want to hear some inside intel from one of Trumps lawyers, Tim Parlatore. Tim discusses all the jan 6 event stuff, litigation, 91 indictments, classified docs, stormy Daniels etc. Tim does a really good job breaking everything down in to smaller pieces; very intriguing how he processes each of the charges.

He had some interesting stories about all the January 6 stuff that some may not have heard.


https://youtu.be/16Qvj8k7wdA?si=B97HG-HNIfyl9hBz
... seen Parlatore a half dozen times. He is not totally truthful and is evasive. I watched the first 5 minutes and my feelings about him have not changed. His answer to the first question was evasive / spun. He left the Trump legal team under suspicious circumstances. He has claimed he left because of people around Trump. In particular Boris Epshteyn. He claims Epshteyn was interfering with his relationship with Trump. Not being honest with Trump (lying to him), not being honest with himself (Parlatore). The likely truth is Trump and Epshteyn were trying to get Parlatore involved in the cover up.

If Parlatore's concern was really Epshteyn being obstructive, an easy problem to solve. Goto the client and give the client a choice, "him or me". Perhaps Parlatore did, and Trump chose Epshteyn. Which says Trump was ok being lied to by Epshteyn. If Parlatore was honest with himself he would have known they were trying to suck him into the coverup, as Trump has with other lawyers. I doubt he gave Trump a choice. He quit, not wanting to end up indicted like other of Trump liars, er I mean lawyers.

Parlatore now goes around talking up Trump's great case against the government's case. I can't help but be suspicious as to why that would be. :lol: