All Things Environment

[a fan]

Blah blah blah blah....stuff about anything but the issue at hand....blah blah blah

You've been claiming that coal and natural gas are a better choice than nuclear, and that nuclear power is "stupid".

You're wrong. You know you're wrong. Everyone reading this knows you're wrong.

But please, by all means, keep trying to convince yourself that this distraction about California and car companies has a thing to do with nuclear power vs. coal.

[a fan]

some of this is both childish and off point to any reasonable discussion...

Gee, ya think? It's almost as if Doc's trying to change the subject.

[Farfromgeneva]

don't stop him. he's on a roll. up to mom's basement jokes.

I want some meatloaf! We want it now!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PCYArey8ykU

[Farfromgeneva]

some of this is both childish and off point to any reasonable discussion...

And highly entertaining. Let it go MD. Let them run..

[HooDat]

the fact that Doc doesn't even understand that California long ago made a policy decision to outsource their energy generation tells you what you need to know. The VAST majority of their power comes from AZ, NV, and OR.

Cali is a big fan of exporting the environmental impact of their lifestyles. From draining rivers in Colorado, AZ and NM to getting their power from those same rivers or coal plants in the Rocky Mountain states, to importing a significant amount of their gasoline and oil.... They like to burn it, but like a 1yr old playing peak-a-boo, they just seem to believe that if they can't see the pollution, it doesn't exist...

I am a big fan of distributed solar (like afan seems to be putting on his plant's roof). Utility scale solar makes no sense at all. None.

Wind just pisses me off. That great off-shore wind Doc mentions - you have any clue what off-shore wind does to whales? Yeah, neither do the jack-offs putting the turbines out there, but we do know it isn't good. The vibrations do all sorts of bad things to their migration patterns and communication. Beautiful landscapes that have been raped by wind "farms". You want to see the future of all those eye-sores? Just drive from LA to Palm Springs and look at all the rusted out turbines just sitting there as a blight on the scenery and environment....

[Farfromgeneva]

the fact that Doc doesn't even understand that California long ago made a policy decision to outsource their energy generation tells you what you need to know. The VAST majority of their power comes from AZ, NV, and OR.

Cali is a big fan of exporting the environmental impact of their lifestyles. From draining rivers in Colorado, AZ and NM to getting their power from those same rivers or coal plants in the Rocky Mountain states, to importing a significant amount of their gasoline and oil.... They like to burn it, but like a 1yr old playing peak-a-boo, they just seem to believe that if they can't see the pollution, it doesn't exist...

I am a big fan of distributed solar (like afan seems to be putting on his plant's roof). Utility scale solar makes no sense at all. None.

Wind just pisses me off. That great off-shore wind Doc mentions - you have any clue what off-shore wind does to whales? Yeah, neither do the jack-offs putting the turbines out there, but we do know it isn't good. The vibrations do all sorts of bad things to their migration patterns and communication. Beautiful landscapes that have been raped by wind "farms". You want to see the future of all those eye-sores? Just drive from LA to Palm Springs and look at all the rusted out turbines just sitting there as a blight on the scenery and environment....

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-56006-9

He may not care

[PizzaSnake]

It's all about the water. Period. No water, no people (glorified waterbags).

Don't whine when you have none. Be sure to watch until the end if you think water migration is bad now...

Oh, and current nuclear tech is a complete non-starter without adequate water for cooling, so think again. Sorry is this "awakening" is bummer. Deal with reality before it deals with you.

[Farfromgeneva]

It's all about the water. Period. No water, no people (glorified waterbags).

Don't whine when you have none. Be sure to watch until the end if you think water migration is bad now...

Oh, and current nuclear tech is a complete non-starter without adequate water for cooling, so think again. Sorry is this "awakening" is bummer. Deal with reality before it deals with you.

Something to check out

https://waterequity.org/about-us/

[PizzaSnake]

It's all about the water. Period. No water, no people (glorified waterbags).

Don't whine when you have none. Be sure to watch until the end if you think water migration is bad now...

Oh, and current nuclear tech is a complete non-starter without adequate water for cooling, so think again. Sorry is this "awakening" is bummer. Deal with reality before it deals with you.

Something to check out

https://waterequity.org/about-us/

I see a few, ahem, issues.

"We invest in financial institutions and enterprises in emerging markets delivering access to safe water and sanitation to low-income consumers, while offering an attractive risk-return profile to investors."

So whose interests are paramount? The investor or the consumer? Is there such a thing as an environmental fiduciary?

Like health care, I see no room for profit or return in the provision of public utilities. As Flint showed us, concentrating on efficiency and cost-control (like say using poisonous, untreated water from a polluted river), is not in the best interest of the consumer. And frankly, I don't trust humans, because they have demonstrated, repeatedly, that they are lying sacks of shite who will do and say anything to gain an advantage. Like say Elon, who is shown in the video (40:56)below demonstrating his ignorance or perfidy, or possibly both, when asked about the water permit for a new Tesla facility in Germany.

[MDlaxfan76]

Interesting topic...what's the possibility of sun and wind and tide powered desalination?

What's the possibility of pipelines bringing water to where it is needed?

I agree that private enterprise has a very difficult time managing the "public good"....at least not without close regulation.

[PizzaSnake]

Interesting topic...what's the possibility of sun and wind and tide powered desalination?

What's the possibility of pipelines bringing water to where it is needed?

I agree that private enterprise has a very difficult time managing the "public good"....at least not without close regulation.

Watch the videos and then go and look at the NASA data that shows the groundwater recession. It is happening everywhere. Higher temps lead to more water vapor in the air. That water comes from somewhere. The winter (cooler temps and no plant respiration) months are a "recharge period. These are shortening, so the groundwater levels are not rebounding. Yet humans keep pumping from that shrinking reserve in the face of reduced surface water -- rivers, streams, glaciers, snow pack, lakes, etc. Oh, and using potable water ("fresh") to grow alfalfa to export to SA and China is a very, very, very stupid thing to do. Yet the Imperial Valley associations insist on their right to do so. This blatant anti-social behavior is why I do not trust a "market" solution.

[DocBarrister]

Blah blah blah blah....stuff about anything but the issue at hand....blah blah blah

You've been claiming that coal and natural gas are a better choice than nuclear, and that nuclear power is "stupid".

You're wrong. You know you're wrong. Everyone reading this knows you're wrong.

But please, by all means, keep trying to convince yourself that this distraction about California and car companies has a thing to do with nuclear power vs. coal.

I never said coal and natural gas are better than nuclear. Now you are just making stuff up, which you are prone to do.

Bottom line, California is leading the nation towards a greener future, and we have not needed, do not need, and will not need brand new nuclear power plants to achieve that.

What is the matter with you? California has some of the world’s greatest experts working on this. As a California resident, I can tell you new nuclear power plants are not on the agenda. If that changes, I’ll let you know.

In the meantime, you need to do some introspection on why you think you know better than anyone else.

DocBarrister

[PizzaSnake]

Blah blah blah blah....stuff about anything but the issue at hand....blah blah blah

You've been claiming that coal and natural gas are a better choice than nuclear, and that nuclear power is "stupid".

You're wrong. You know you're wrong. Everyone reading this knows you're wrong.

But please, by all means, keep trying to convince yourself that this distraction about California and car companies has a thing to do with nuclear power vs. coal.

I never said coal and natural gas are better than nuclear. Now you are just making stuff up, which you are prone to do.

Bottom line, California is leading the nation towards a greener future, and we have not needed, do not need, and will not need brand new nuclear power plants to achieve that.

What is the matter with you? California has some of the world’s greatest experts working on this. As a California resident, I can tell you new nuclear power plants are not on the agenda. If that changes, I’ll let you know.

In the meantime, you need to do some introspection on why you think you know better than anyone else.

DocBarrister

Nuclear plants as currently designed are a non-starter due to water necessary for cooling. There isn't enough water for humans to drink and for agriculture.

Bottom line is, the desert SW should never have been so densely populated. People should have listened to Powell when he reported after his survey in the late 19th century. Sort of amusing they named Lake Powell after him, isn't it? A monument to willful ignorance.

Oh, and Mulholland and his venal enablers were idiots.

[DocBarrister]

the fact that Doc doesn't even understand that California long ago made a policy decision to outsource their energy generation tells you what you need to know. The VAST majority of their power comes from AZ, NV, and OR.

Cali is a big fan of exporting the environmental impact of their lifestyles. From draining rivers in Colorado, AZ and NM to getting their power from those same rivers or coal plants in the Rocky Mountain states, to importing a significant amount of their gasoline and oil.... They like to burn it, but like a 1yr old playing peak-a-boo, they just seem to believe that if they can't see the pollution, it doesn't exist...

I am a big fan of distributed solar (like afan seems to be putting on his plant's roof). Utility scale solar makes no sense at all. None.

Wind just pisses me off. That great off-shore wind Doc mentions - you have any clue what off-shore wind does to whales? Yeah, neither do the jack-offs putting the turbines out there, but we do know it isn't good. The vibrations do all sorts of bad things to their migration patterns and communication. Beautiful landscapes that have been raped by wind "farms". You want to see the future of all those eye-sores? Just drive from LA to Palm Springs and look at all the rusted out turbines just sitting there as a blight on the scenery and environment....

You are simply wrong. California is the biggest energy importer in the U.S. by MWs, but we only import 25% of our electricity.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46156

We are going to be dependent on energy imports and fossil fuels for decades (like every other state), but we have already seen brief glimpses of the future.

For example, there are individual hours where a region of California comprising 80% of the state was able to generate its entire electricity need through its own renewable energy power plants.

For about an hour on April 30th, grid operators at the California Independent System Operator (ISO), which serves about 80% of the state, had enough electricity from solar, wind, geothermal and small hydropower dams to meet all of the demand in their area. More power was being generated than was needed at that moment, so some was exported to other Western states.

"That's quite an accomplishment because it demonstrates if you can do it for one instantaneous hour, you can do it for longer periods of time," says Mark Rothleder, senior vice president at the California ISO.

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/05/13/ ... utType=amp

Just a small glimpse of the future.

Some of you like giving crap to California, but we are by far the greatest f*cking state in the nation. We gave the world Silicon Valley, Tesla, and Hollywood. Our Central Valley feeds your pathetic mouths. For decades we have generally contributed more in federal taxes than we get in return.

We have the second lowest per capita carbon footprint. We lead the nation in auto emission standards and have forced companies like Toyota, Ford, GM, and BMW to grovel before us.

We have an economy bigger than those of India, the UK, France, Brazil, and Russia.

So, show some d*mn respect.

Rant over. Thank you, thank you very much.

*Elvis has left the building.*

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

Interesting topic...what's the possibility of sun and wind and tide powered desalination?

What's the possibility of pipelines bringing water to where it is needed?

I agree that private enterprise has a very difficult time managing the "public good"....at least not without close regulation.

Watch the videos and then go and look at the NASA data that shows the groundwater recession. It is happening everywhere. Higher temps lead to more water vapor in the air. That water comes from somewhere. The winter (cooler temps and no plant respiration) months are a "recharge period. These are shortening, so the groundwater levels are not rebounding. Yet humans keep pumping from that shrinking reserve in the face of reduced surface water -- rivers, streams, glaciers, snow pack, lakes, etc. Oh, and using potable water ("fresh") to grow alfalfa to export to SA and China is a very, very, very stupid thing to do. Yet the Imperial Valley associations insist on their right to do so. This blatant anti-social behavior is why I do not trust a "market" solution.

This is definitely far away from my expertise...but very interesting, and certainly extremely important issue.

I don't think you answered my question, though, about desalination. There's a whole lotta water in the ocean, and with ice caps melting all the more so...so not actually an imminent shortage of H2O...just not fresh, potable water.

Big issue with desalination is the power required...so, can desalination plants be run 'green'??

It seems to me that there's also an open question as to the water requirements for the most modern mini-nuclear facilities if I'm not mistaken...and nuclear could be powering desalination, right?

Again, way beyond my expertise, so I'm mostly spitballing...

I'm 100% with you that we need far better 'engineering' to create more efficient, sustainable loops of all sorts.

[DocBarrister]

Blah blah blah blah....stuff about anything but the issue at hand....blah blah blah

You've been claiming that coal and natural gas are a better choice than nuclear, and that nuclear power is "stupid".

You're wrong. You know you're wrong. Everyone reading this knows you're wrong.

But please, by all means, keep trying to convince yourself that this distraction about California and car companies has a thing to do with nuclear power vs. coal.

I never said coal and natural gas are better than nuclear. Now you are just making stuff up, which you are prone to do.

Bottom line, California is leading the nation towards a greener future, and we have not needed, do not need, and will not need brand new nuclear power plants to achieve that.

What is the matter with you? California has some of the world’s greatest experts working on this. As a California resident, I can tell you new nuclear power plants are not on the agenda. If that changes, I’ll let you know.

In the meantime, you need to do some introspection on why you think you know better than anyone else.

DocBarrister

Nuclear plants as currently designed are a non-starter due to water necessary for cooling. There isn't enough water for humans to drink and for agriculture.

Bottom line is, the desert SW should never have been so densely populated. People should have listened to Powell when he reported after his survey in the late 19th century. Sort of amusing they named Lake Powell after him, isn't it? A monument to willful ignorance.

Oh, and Mulholland and his venal enablers were idiots.

That’s why the nuclear power plants in California were/are near the ocean. Which is another strike against them. A major nuclear accident and you could contaminate the most valuable coastal region in the United States for many decades.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Interesting topic...what's the possibility of sun and wind and tide powered desalination?

What's the possibility of pipelines bringing water to where it is needed?

I agree that private enterprise has a very difficult time managing the "public good"....at least not without close regulation.

Watch the videos and then go and look at the NASA data that shows the groundwater recession. It is happening everywhere. Higher temps lead to more water vapor in the air. That water comes from somewhere. The winter (cooler temps and no plant respiration) months are a "recharge period. These are shortening, so the groundwater levels are not rebounding. Yet humans keep pumping from that shrinking reserve in the face of reduced surface water -- rivers, streams, glaciers, snow pack, lakes, etc. Oh, and using potable water ("fresh") to grow alfalfa to export to SA and China is a very, very, very stupid thing to do. Yet the Imperial Valley associations insist on their right to do so. This blatant anti-social behavior is why I do not trust a "market" solution.

This is definitely far away from my expertise...but very interesting, and certainly extremely important issue.

I don't think you answered my question, though, about desalination. There's a whole lotta water in the ocean, and with ice caps melting all the more so...so not actually an imminent shortage of H2O...just not fresh, potable water.

Big issue with desalination is the power required...so, can desalination plants be run 'green'??

It seems to me that there's also an open question as to the water requirements for the most modern mini-nuclear facilities if I'm not mistaken...and nuclear could be powering desalination, right?

Again, way beyond my expertise, so I'm mostly spitballing...

I'm 100% with you that we need far better 'engineering' to create more efficient, sustainable loops of all sorts.

Desalination is a part of the planned solution for the water crisis that California faces. It will take decades to have a renewable power infrastructure capable of fully powering every desalination plant. That’s been a major criticism of desalination.

Other less-energy intensive approaches are also being considered, including new reservoirs and the recapture/recycling of waste water.

There is even a wild-sounding pilot program to test “Solar Canals” … covering open air water canals with solar panels. Based on a small pilot program (in Europe, I think), the idea is to reduce water evaporation while generating solar power. Who knows if it will work.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovati ... 180979637/

DocBarrister

[Farfromgeneva]

It's all about the water. Period. No water, no people (glorified waterbags).

Don't whine when you have none. Be sure to watch until the end if you think water migration is bad now...

Oh, and current nuclear tech is a complete non-starter without adequate water for cooling, so think again. Sorry is this "awakening" is bummer. Deal with reality before it deals with you.

Something to check out

https://waterequity.org/about-us/

I see a few, ahem, issues.

"We invest in financial institutions and enterprises in emerging markets delivering access to safe water and sanitation to low-income consumers, while offering an attractive risk-return profile to investors."

So whose interests are paramount? The investor or the consumer? Is there such a thing as an environmental fiduciary?

Like health care, I see no room for profit or return in the provision of public utilities. As Flint showed us, concentrating on efficiency and cost-control (like say using poisonous, untreated water from a polluted river), is not in the best interest of the consumer. And frankly, I don't trust humans, because they have demonstrated, repeatedly, that they are lying sacks of shite who will do and say anything to gain an advantage. Like say Elon, who is shown in the video (40:56)below demonstrating his ignorance or perfidy, or possibly both, when asked about the water permit for a new Tesla facility in Germany.

I wasn’t necessarily advocating for those guys or any in the space just that it’s out there and probably an opportunity if focused on the opportunity.

[a fan]

Blah blah blah blah....stuff about anything but the issue at hand....blah blah blah

You've been claiming that coal and natural gas are a better choice than nuclear, and that nuclear power is "stupid".

You're wrong. You know you're wrong. Everyone reading this knows you're wrong.

But please, by all means, keep trying to convince yourself that this distraction about California and car companies has a thing to do with nuclear power vs. coal.

I never said coal and natural gas are better than nuclear.

You're right. What you said was far dumber than that.

Truth is, nuclear power plants simply are not commercially viable in California compared to renewable energy sources.

You think that the choice is Nuclear v. Solar&Wind. It's not. It's between Nuclear v. Coal&Natural Gas.

And you prefer Coal& Natural Gas to Nuclear. So do your fellow Californians.

Which is fine, of course. But you don't get to tell us that Nuclear is stupid, and YOUR CHOICE of Coal&Natural Gas, instead of installing nuclear plants is better for the environment.

Because it isn't. And you can't dance out of this.

[MDlaxfan76]

Interesting topic...what's the possibility of sun and wind and tide powered desalination?

What's the possibility of pipelines bringing water to where it is needed?

I agree that private enterprise has a very difficult time managing the "public good"....at least not without close regulation.

Watch the videos and then go and look at the NASA data that shows the groundwater recession. It is happening everywhere. Higher temps lead to more water vapor in the air. That water comes from somewhere. The winter (cooler temps and no plant respiration) months are a "recharge period. These are shortening, so the groundwater levels are not rebounding. Yet humans keep pumping from that shrinking reserve in the face of reduced surface water -- rivers, streams, glaciers, snow pack, lakes, etc. Oh, and using potable water ("fresh") to grow alfalfa to export to SA and China is a very, very, very stupid thing to do. Yet the Imperial Valley associations insist on their right to do so. This blatant anti-social behavior is why I do not trust a "market" solution.

This is definitely far away from my expertise...but very interesting, and certainly extremely important issue.

I don't think you answered my question, though, about desalination. There's a whole lotta water in the ocean, and with ice caps melting all the more so...so not actually an imminent shortage of H2O...just not fresh, potable water.

Big issue with desalination is the power required...so, can desalination plants be run 'green'??

It seems to me that there's also an open question as to the water requirements for the most modern mini-nuclear facilities if I'm not mistaken...and nuclear could be powering desalination, right?

Again, way beyond my expertise, so I'm mostly spitballing...

I'm 100% with you that we need far better 'engineering' to create more efficient, sustainable loops of all sorts.

Desalination is a part of the planned solution for the water crisis that California faces. It will take decades to have a renewable power infrastructure capable of fully powering every desalination plant. That’s been a major criticism of desalination.

Other less-energy intensive approaches are also being considered, including new reservoirs and the recapture/recycling of waste water.

There is even a wild-sounding pilot program to test “Solar Canals” … covering open air water canals with solar panels. Based on a small pilot program (in Europe, I think), the idea is to reduce water evaporation while generating solar power. Who knows if it will work.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovati ... 180979637/

DocBarrister

if I’m not mistaken, desalination plants paired with the compact and hugely safer nuclear generators could make a lot of sense. But need to get over the quite reasonable concerns about nuclear, relevant to early plant technology. Today’s technology is quite improved, as I understand it…but this ain’t my field.