2018 Midterm Elections

[cradleandshoot]

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/11/09/j ... s-request/ So now it is my lawyers better than your lawyer. boxing1 Why is it that no matter how this bullshirt shakes out the blood sucking lawyers always make their money? I can only assume that there are laws in this part of Florida that govern how elections are run. This is pretty bizarre stuff... a teacher found a bin full of ballots in a storage room under a pile of old coats about to be donated to charity. Ooooops… the folks at the polling place forgot those... darn it all how did that happen?? There are at least 2 counties in Florida that don't seem to have a clue about how to follow the rules. https://www.lifezette.com/2018/11/flori ... rage-room/

It's Florida - they have demonstrated on multiple occasions they don't know how to vote

There are 67 counties in Florida where these folks go to vote. 65 of them had no problems. 2 counties do not seem to have the slightest clue how to count votes or obey the law. Voting is not rocket science. I don't know diddly squat about how the folks in charge there operate. With every passing minute they are looking dumber and dumber. You can't just keep finding crates of ballots suddenly showing up everywhere that have not been secured by the proper authorities. IMO the negligence on the part of these people in charge should make every single one of these votes null and void. Heads should roll here... period.

Heads rolling, changing the laws, etc...plenty fine. Long overdue IMO.
But we should Never be talking about votes being voided because the gov't officials are inept.

IMO it becomes a chain of custody issue. When you find a box of provisional ballots that just suddenly appears out of nowhere in a very odd location. You have no way of knowing what shenanigans may have happened with these votes. Since they have been out of the jurisdiction of any chain of custody extra, extra, extra care has to be used in determining the nature of these votes and are they legitimate. The first question that has to be answered... where did these votes come from and whose responsibility was it to keep them secure? At face value this kind of miraculous finding of votes out of thin air is the recipe for every accusation of voting fraud a person could imagine. Which is precisely the reason these idiots in charge of voting in Broward and Palm Beach County have cast doubt by their own actions on the legitimacy of the vote down there. Question to all of you folks out there on this forum... do you count all votes even if it can't be proven if they are legitimate or may have been tampered with? Basic math as I understand it should equal out between every person who voted and every vote that was counted. If it deviates tens of thousands of votes for one candidate or the other how can that be...? That has to mean as I would understand it that some sort of hanky panky has been going on. Funny thing... a bunch of you folks out there on this forum have been beyond adamant in telling us that voter fraud/voting fraud just never happens to any significant degree. The sheetstorm going on in several states right now and the invasion of attorneys now litigating the issue for both parties tells us something different. Could it be that there are folks on both sides trying to steal elections?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/11/09/j ... s-request/ So now it is my lawyers better than your lawyer. boxing1 Why is it that no matter how this bullshirt shakes out the blood sucking lawyers always make their money? I can only assume that there are laws in this part of Florida that govern how elections are run. This is pretty bizarre stuff... a teacher found a bin full of ballots in a storage room under a pile of old coats about to be donated to charity. Ooooops… the folks at the polling place forgot those... darn it all how did that happen?? There are at least 2 counties in Florida that don't seem to have a clue about how to follow the rules. https://www.lifezette.com/2018/11/flori ... rage-room/

It's Florida - they have demonstrated on multiple occasions they don't know how to vote

There are 67 counties in Florida where these folks go to vote. 65 of them had no problems. 2 counties do not seem to have the slightest clue how to count votes or obey the law. Voting is not rocket science. I don't know diddly squat about how the folks in charge there operate. With every passing minute they are looking dumber and dumber. You can't just keep finding crates of ballots suddenly showing up everywhere that have not been secured by the proper authorities. IMO the negligence on the part of these people in charge should make every single one of these votes null and void. Heads should roll here... period.

Heads rolling, changing the laws, etc...plenty fine. Long overdue IMO.
But we should Never be talking about votes being voided because the gov't officials are inept.

IMO it becomes a chain of custody issue. When you find a box of provisional ballots that just suddenly appears out of nowhere in a very odd location. You have no way of knowing what shenanigans may have happened with these votes. Since they have been out of the jurisdiction of any chain of custody extra, extra, extra care has to be used in determining the nature of these votes and are they legitimate. The first question that has to be answered... where did these votes come from and whose responsibility was it to keep them secure? At face value this kind of miraculous finding of votes out of thin air is the recipe for every accusation of voting fraud a person could imagine. Which is precisely the reason these idiots in charge of voting in Broward and Palm Beach County have cast doubt by their own actions on the legitimacy of the vote down there. Question to all of you folks out there on this forum... do you count all votes even if it can't be proven if they are legitimate or may have been tampered with? Basic math as I understand it should equal out between every person who voted and every vote that was counted. If it deviates tens of thousands of votes for one candidate or the other how can that be...? That has to mean as I would understand it that some sort of hanky panky has been going on. Funny thing... a bunch of you folks out there on this forum have been beyond adamant in telling us that voter fraud/voting fraud just never happens to any significant degree. The sheetstorm going on in several states right now and the invasion of attorneys now litigating the issue for both parties tells us something different. Could it be that there are folks on both sides trying to steal elections?

[cradleandshoot]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

[ggait]

Looks like whoever designed the Broward County ballot cost the Dem Senate candidate about 26,000 votes. That may wind up being decisive. Since it is Broward, presumably that's the Dems shooting their own foot?

Supidity not conspiracy. Hanlon's law.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/so ... a-recount/

[MDlaxfan76]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

I think he meant it simply as a chuckle.

There's a lot of conspiracy theory, fear mongering going on... with little or no real basis in fact.
Some of it is totally made up by those trying to cast doubt on the returns, trying to preserve one particular side's win.

Moreover, there's some real "ignorance" of the system being perpetuated by those fear mongers.

But absolutely, if a bunch of ballots 'mysteriously appear', it would be prudent to examine them for authenticity.
I know that here in MD our paper ballots have our name on them and it would take very little to check a sampling of them to see if they really were authentic.
But if authentic, of course count them. Indeed, if no proof otherwise the benefit of the doubt should always go to them having been validly cast.

This is very likely going to a hand count and the lawyers on the Republican side will undoubtedly want to determine that the ballots were actually cast by voters, not some fraud. And, IMO, that's entirely reasonable.

But accusations of fraud without firm evidence of such is very irresponsible.

BTW, the argument that has typically been had about 'voter fraud' has been about voter ID with one side arguing to make it as difficult as possible to vote, under an assumption that there are hordes of people voting who have no right to do so or who are voting multiple times, fraudulently.

That's simply never been remotely shown to be true and has just been the cover for suppressing poor people's votes.

I do think that it's quite legitimate to worry about political operatives creating false ballots (Illinois in 1960) or, these days, electronic tampering perpetrated by any nefariously interested party. But that's why we need to get much more rigorous in our paper ballot processes and our technology defenses and back-up systems. It's not a good reason to cry wolf when ballots keep getting counted and we don't like them. Nor is it a good reason to create onerous ID laws.

[cradleandshoot]

How can one county in one state have such a pathetic track record at counting votes? If this was NYS I could understand it. For crying out loud how many years have these jack wagons in Broward County had to figure this complex issue of counting votes and creating ballots for their people to understand? I go back to how it was done here at one time in NYS. You walked into the booth, pulled the curtain and punched the levers on a mechanical voting machine. Your vote was counted and at the end of the day the totals from all the machines were tabulated and sent to the folks in charge of the election. Damn if it didn't work like clockwork for many many years. In our new age of new fangled high technology trying to count votes... at least in some states is right up there with rocket science... We are so much better off for letting our technology take voting over for us... it has worked out so very well after all.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

It was to calm you down....does anyone have detail on this box with "thousands of ballots" that just showed up? How large was the box? When were the fake ballots drawn up? Where they all for one candidate? When did someone decide to "find" the box? Who found the box? I wonder if anyone on the ground considered the legitimacy of the ballots....maybe they should hang out on fanlax.

One story with my first search

[MDlaxfan76]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

It was to calm you down....does anyone have detail on this box with "thousands of ballots" that just showed up? How large was the box? When were the fake ballots drawn up? Where they all for one candidate? When did someone decide to "find" the box? Who found the box? I wonder if anyone on the ground considered the legitimacy of the ballots....maybe they should hang out on fanlax.

Unfortunately, if you've been told for years that everyone was out to screw you, and indeed sometimes that's actually true, then you're very susceptible to this stuff, especially when your media influences are trying to get you riled up about it. Even worse when your President is doing so.

[cradleandshoot]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

I think he meant it simply as a chuckle.

There's a lot of conspiracy theory, fear mongering going on... with little or no real basis in fact.
Some of it is totally made up by those trying to cast doubt on the returns, trying to preserve one particular side's win.

Moreover, there's some real "ignorance" of the system being perpetuated by those fear mongers.

But absolutely, if a bunch of ballots 'mysteriously appear', it would be prudent to examine them for authenticity.
I know that here in MD our paper ballots have our name on them and it would take very little to check a sampling of them to see if they really were authentic.
But if authentic, of course count them. Indeed, if no proof otherwise the benefit of the doubt should always go to them having been validly cast.

This is very likely going to a hand count and the lawyers on the Republican side will undoubtedly want to determine that the ballots were actually cast by voters, not some fraud. And, IMO, that's entirely reasonable.

But accusations of fraud without firm evidence of such is very irresponsible.

BTW, the argument that has typically been had about 'voter fraud' has been about voter ID with one side arguing to make it as difficult as possible to vote, under an assumption that there are hordes of people voting who have no right to do so or who are voting multiple times, fraudulently.

That's simply never been remotely shown to be true and has just been the cover for suppressing poor people's votes.

I do think that it's quite legitimate to worry about political operatives creating false ballots (Illinois in 1960) or, these days, electronic tampering perpetrated by any nefariously interested party. But that's why we need to get much more rigorous in our paper ballot processes and our technology defenses and back-up systems. It's not a good reason to cry wolf when ballots keep getting counted and we don't like them. Nor is it a good reason to create onerous ID laws.

Nothing onerous about having an ID to vote. If I go to my local store to cash in a winning lottery ticket it has to be verified on their cash register with my drivers license. No exceptions... without proper ID you cant cash your ticket in at this store. You also can't buy a six pack of beer you can't buy a pack of smokes and much to Dmacs chagrin you can't buy a pack of zig zags. Needing an ID to prove who you are to vote in an election is not a radical expectation on my part. Providing registered voters with a proper id is not some sort of insurmountable obstacle that any willing voter can't figure out. If you want to throw that poll tax nonsense into the equation it is a very simple solution to provide AT NO COST a proper id any person can bring with them to vote. For goodness sakes I don't whine and complain about showing my ID to purchase a six pack. Why should any American citizen whine and complain about doing their part to insure the integrity of the voting system by showing a photo id. For those of you out there that think I am blowing smoke up your ass about the id thing... check it out for yourself... All Red Apple/Kwik Fil stations have the same policy in all their stores NO ID... NO SALE... plain and simple.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

It was to calm you down....does anyone have detail on this box with "thousands of ballots" that just showed up? How large was the box? When were the fake ballots drawn up? Where they all for one candidate? When did someone decide to "find" the box? Who found the box? I wonder if anyone on the ground considered the legitimacy of the ballots....maybe they should hang out on fanlax.

Unfortunately, if you've been told for years that everyone was out to screw you, and indeed sometimes that's actually true, then you're very susceptible to this stuff, especially when your media influences are trying to get you riled up about it. Even worse when your President is doing so.

The ballot box found with no ballots isn't a story.....this is what happens in Florida

The under count

Bad ballot design.....

[cradleandshoot]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

It was to calm you down....does anyone have detail on this box with "thousands of ballots" that just showed up? How large was the box? When were the fake ballots drawn up? Where they all for one candidate? When did someone decide to "find" the box? Who found the box? I wonder if anyone on the ground considered the legitimacy of the ballots....maybe they should hang out on fanlax.

Unfortunately, if you've been told for years that everyone was out to screw you, and indeed sometimes that's actually true, then you're very susceptible to this stuff, especially when your media influences are trying to get you riled up about it. Even worse when your President is doing so.

Ain't that the same argument the Dems used in 2000 when Bush stole the election in Florida? There seem to be parallel arguments in Broward County for some reason. Some folks there are too stupid to understand how to vote and some folks are also too stupid when it comes to counting them. As for myself... NYS is one effed up place to live in but give these people their due... they can count freaking votes and they can do it very quickly and accurately. Most all of Florida was able to do this and it was NBFD. Yet in 2 counties they look like a bunch of numbnuts that just can't figure out how to do. If anybody needs to be calmed down it should be the folks in Florida that have to deal with this same incompetence at the voting booth year after year. Let them go for the recount, maybe then these folks will be able to figure out who the hell won. For the record there are laws in Florida that clearly state how this process is suppose to go down. If the laws are not being followed then what is the point of having laws in the first place?

[cradleandshoot]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

It was to calm you down....does anyone have detail on this box with "thousands of ballots" that just showed up? How large was the box? When were the fake ballots drawn up? Where they all for one candidate? When did someone decide to "find" the box? Who found the box? I wonder if anyone on the ground considered the legitimacy of the ballots....maybe they should hang out on fanlax.

Unfortunately, if you've been told for years that everyone was out to screw you, and indeed sometimes that's actually true, then you're very susceptible to this stuff, especially when your media influences are trying to get you riled up about it. Even worse when your President is doing so.

The ballot box found with no ballots isn't a story.....this is what happens in Florida

The under count

Bad ballot design.....

Interesting point about "undervoting" why would this be specific to one county to such a degree? Is there some reason why the folks in Broward County vote this way? I find it hard to believe that something is not out of whack here. These voters in Broward County show up as an anomaly that exists nowhere else to this degree in the state of Florida. Maybe there is something in the water down there in Broward that causes brain farts when you go to vote? confused4

[MDlaxfan76]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

I think he meant it simply as a chuckle.

There's a lot of conspiracy theory, fear mongering going on... with little or no real basis in fact.
Some of it is totally made up by those trying to cast doubt on the returns, trying to preserve one particular side's win.

Moreover, there's some real "ignorance" of the system being perpetuated by those fear mongers.

But absolutely, if a bunch of ballots 'mysteriously appear', it would be prudent to examine them for authenticity.
I know that here in MD our paper ballots have our name on them and it would take very little to check a sampling of them to see if they really were authentic.
But if authentic, of course count them. Indeed, if no proof otherwise the benefit of the doubt should always go to them having been validly cast.

This is very likely going to a hand count and the lawyers on the Republican side will undoubtedly want to determine that the ballots were actually cast by voters, not some fraud. And, IMO, that's entirely reasonable.

But accusations of fraud without firm evidence of such is very irresponsible.

BTW, the argument that has typically been had about 'voter fraud' has been about voter ID with one side arguing to make it as difficult as possible to vote, under an assumption that there are hordes of people voting who have no right to do so or who are voting multiple times, fraudulently.

That's simply never been remotely shown to be true and has just been the cover for suppressing poor people's votes.

I do think that it's quite legitimate to worry about political operatives creating false ballots (Illinois in 1960) or, these days, electronic tampering perpetrated by any nefariously interested party. But that's why we need to get much more rigorous in our paper ballot processes and our technology defenses and back-up systems. It's not a good reason to cry wolf when ballots keep getting counted and we don't like them. Nor is it a good reason to create onerous ID laws.

Nothing onerous about having an ID to vote. If I go to my local store to cash in a winning lottery ticket it has to be verified on their cash register with my drivers license. No exceptions... without proper ID you cant cash your ticket in at this store. You also can't buy a six pack of beer you can't buy a pack of smokes and much to Dmacs chagrin you can't buy a pack of zig zags. Needing an ID to prove who you are to vote in an election is not a radical expectation on my part. Providing registered voters with a proper id is not some sort of insurmountable obstacle that any willing voter can't figure out. If you want to throw that poll tax nonsense into the equation it is a very simple solution to provide AT NO COST a proper id any person can bring with them to vote. For goodness sakes I don't whine and complain about showing my ID to purchase a six pack. Why should any American citizen whine and complain about doing their part to insure the integrity of the voting system by showing a photo id. For those of you out there that think I am blowing smoke up your ass about the id thing... check it out for yourself... All Red Apple/Kwik Fil stations have the same policy in all their stores NO ID... NO SALE... plain and simple.

Just to be clear, I agree that having to show an ID to prove that you are of age is perfectly fine in my book. Of course, that spawns a whole industry of bogus IDs, but that's another issue.

But I didn't need to show my ID to cast my vote last week. I just told them my name and street address. I was given the opportunity to update my info right then and there. Of course, I've also been registered for years. And only one person can cast a vote in my name...could someone else have tried to do so? Maybe...but there's never been any evidence that actually happens in a remotely material way.

Making it easy to vote on Election Day is very simple, doesn't require an ID. Just one registration, one vote.

Where this gets a little more complicated is the registering in the first place. We don't want someone to register 100 times in different polling districts as different people and then spend the day driving from polling station to polling station casting those votes under 100 different names...but hear how crazy that sounds? Think it ever happens? Nope, never been shown to have happened. I'm sure someone could do it just to somehow prove that it could be done, but do we really think 100's of people might do it without anyone catching wind? Nope.

This is truly a phony issue designed simply to make it harder for those who are poorer, less stable, less able to get to the registration office to register. Ohh no, you don't just need a state-issued ID, you can only get that ID if you have a utility bill or rent bill to prove residency...oops, take another trip. But hey, shouldn't the person have to prove they are actually a US citizen? where's your passport, pal? Ohhh yeah, you gotta produce a birth certificate...where do you get one of those...but wait, shouldn't you have to prove some minimal level of reading comprehension? Oh yeah, how about that you own property?

How about we make it as easy as possible to register and to vote, and encourage everyone to do so, and count them once...

Again, where we do need to pay attention is election systems hacks (this pretty easy at the single machine level, with paper ballot for recount), but hacking of the tabulating process remains a vulnerability that deserves attention, too.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Come on TLD if you want to insult someone you have to better than that. You need to up your game here my friend...

It was to calm you down....does anyone have detail on this box with "thousands of ballots" that just showed up? How large was the box? When were the fake ballots drawn up? Where they all for one candidate? When did someone decide to "find" the box? Who found the box? I wonder if anyone on the ground considered the legitimacy of the ballots....maybe they should hang out on fanlax.

Unfortunately, if you've been told for years that everyone was out to screw you, and indeed sometimes that's actually true, then you're very susceptible to this stuff, especially when your media influences are trying to get you riled up about it. Even worse when your President is doing so.

The ballot box found with no ballots isn't a story.....this is what happens in Florida

The under count

Bad ballot design.....

Interesting point about "undervoting" why would this be specific to one county to such a degree? Is there some reason why the folks in Broward County vote this way? I find it hard to believe that something is not out of whack here. These voters in Broward County show up as an anomaly that exists nowhere else to this degree in the state of Florida. Maybe there is something in the water down there in Broward that causes brain farts when you go to vote? confused4

More population. How is Dade County?

[cradleandshoot]

Technically I am still registered to vote in the city of Rochester and in the town of Irondequoit where I live now. I suppose if I went to my former district in the city I could vote twice and nobody would say boo about it. This has been a topic brought up before about the large number of New Yorkers who snowbird in Florida. It has been common practice for many of them to vote in both states. I don't know all the nuts and bolts about how they do it but I do know it is done by a lot of folks who take great pleasure in doing so. How widespread this is I don't know. It is not too far fetched that this could add up to thousands of extra votes being cast but nobody knows because you can't really track it. What do you do... throw granny and grandpa in jail for voter fraud?

[Trinity]

I voted in Broward. I showed my Fla license. They printed out a ticket and stapled that to a tear-off strip from the bottom of my paper ballot. They kept the strip. I filled out my ballot and fed it to a machine that counted it and kept it.

Anything in-person fake won’t have the corresponding stapled ticket/strip.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Technically I am still registered to vote in the city of Rochester and in the town of Irondequoit where I live now. I suppose if I went to my former district in the city I could vote twice and nobody would say boo about it. This has been a topic brought up before about the large number of New Yorkers who snowbird in Florida. It has been common practice for many of them to vote in both states. I don't know all the nuts and bolts about how they do it but I do know it is done by a lot of folks who take great pleasure in doing so. How widespread this is I don't know. It is not too far fetched that this could add up to thousands of extra votes being cast but nobody knows because you can't really track it. What do you do... throw granny and grandpa in jail for voter fraud?

So these are the illegals immigrants with a home in Boca and the South Bronx? How soon after these folks walk up from Guatemala are they able to own a residence in two states and winter in Florida?

[MDlaxfan76]

Technically I am still registered to vote in the city of Rochester and in the town of Irondequoit where I live now. I suppose if I went to my former district in the city I could vote twice and nobody would say boo about it. This has been a topic brought up before about the large number of New Yorkers who snowbird in Florida. It has been common practice for many of them to vote in both states. I don't know all the nuts and bolts about how they do it but I do know it is done by a lot of folks who take great pleasure in doing so. How widespread this is I don't know. It is not too far fetched that this could add up to thousands of extra votes being cast but nobody knows because you can't really track it. What do you do... throw granny and grandpa in jail for voter fraud?

Well, perhaps you can take comfort that those snow birds are very highly likely to be GOP voters.

My parents live with us in MD for just less than 6 months of the year, the rest of the time either in Florida or NH or traveling. In order to not pay MD taxes, they need to be out of state at least 6 months and a day and they need to be able to prove it. Florida is simply happy to have them.

They are very, very conscious of being able to prove non-residency in MD, and one piece of that when they first made the move was to move their voter registration from MD rolls.

God forbid the State was to use their having voted here to whack them with State taxes!

Just a hunch, but I suspect very, very few people in NYS take the risk of being found voting in NYS but not paying taxes in NYS.

[jhu72]

You know, there was not a single problem in Florida but in the two counties mentioned above, during the election. Well if you discount mixed up ballots delivered to polling places in Orange County; and Brevard County running out of ballots at multiple polling places; and Miami-Dade having a hard time counting the nearly 100% increase in early voting ballots, needing additional time; and above average failure rates for voting equipment throughout Florida; and the numerous complaints about availability of parking at polling places in the state; etc. I didn't bother to look for specific problems in any other counties than the ones just mentioned. Checked three larger counties randomly, everyone had problems of some nature, all causing inconvenience and delays in voting or counting. Willing to bet that if the exercise is continued for all of Florida, more than 50% of Florida counties would have similar problems.

It's really interesting that none of this got national coverage. Not a single politician complaining about any of it (just voters complaining). Of course in the two heavily democratic counties, the republican party nationally is complaining. As of my checking earlier this afternoon, no official complaint of fraud has been filed; just the right wing media crying fraud with no evidence!

Go figure.

[Typical Lax Dad]

You know, there was not a single problem in Florida but in the two counties mentioned above, during the election. Well if you discount mixed up ballots delivered to polling places in Orange County; and Brevard County running out of ballots at multiple polling places; and Miami-Dade having a hard time counting the nearly 100% increase in early voting ballots, needing additional time; and above average failure rates for voting equipment throughout Florida; and the numerous complaints about availability of parking at polling places in the state; etc. I didn't bother to look for specific problems in any other counties than the ones just mentioned. Checked three larger counties randomly, everyone had problems of some nature, all causing inconvenience and delays in voting or counting. Willing to bet that if the exercise is continued for all of Florida, more than 50% of Florida counties would have similar problems.

It's really interesting that none of this got national coverage. Not a single politician complaining about any of it (just voters complaining). Of course in the two heavily democratic counties, the republican party nationally is complaining. As of my checking earlier this afternoon, no official complaint of fraud has been filled; just the right wing media crying fraud with no evidence!

Go figure.

Rick Scott's monitors agree with state cops: No Florida voter fraud