Holy cow....they have photo evidence? This far worse than I had understood.
Nothing was proven.
And Anita Hill made up her story, too.
And we wonder why DEI infuriates TrumpNation so much....they want to be allowed to "grab her by the......" all they want, without nasty things like laws or morals getting in the way.
Holy cow....they have photo evidence? This far worse than I had understood.
Nothing was proven.
And Anita Hill made up her story, too.
And we wonder why DEI infuriates TrumpNation so much....they want to be allowed to "grab her by the......" all they want, without nasty things like laws or morals getting in the way.
Anita Hill almost ruined a man’s career like that navy gal did. Officers drinking clubs were closed for heaven’s sake!! And they forced DEI gender sensitivity training on the boys on top of it!
Re: 2024
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:52 pm
by a fan
.....know what I"m seeing as viral?
Women calling Tim Walz "the Dad before I lost him to Trump and FoxNews".
Trump better hope the election comes soon, or he's going to slice this off into the woods.
...cause Walz is sounding like a 70's Republican.
Re: 2024
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 9:33 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:15 pm
I'm asking you whether you think Naval Aviators are immune from being rapists, sexual assaulters, sexual harassers, lewd actors, or covering up such "miscreant behavior"?
Or is your contention that the surveys of navy folk are bogus? That Pentagon stats are bogus. Sexual assault just doesn't happen, at least not by "Naval Aviators". Hoo boy.
Shame on you for swift boating Walz.
I made no contention. I asked you to back up yours.
I did not swift boat Walz. I pointed out his factual record, what soldiers who served with him have said, what he has said & what his campaigns have published. If you wish to ignore the facts, or spin them, that's up to you. The voters will decide what they think is accurate & what is important to them.
I honor Walz's 24 years of part time service & his rising through the ranks & retirement as an E-8 Master Sergeant. You've now been exposed to the facts behind his record. Fluff then as much as you wish.
Re: 2024
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 9:36 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:45 pm
And we wonder why DEI infuriates TrumpNation so much....they want to be allowed to "grab her by the......" all they want, without nasty things like laws or morals getting in the way.
I provided a link to the aircraft accident report for the first Navy fighter pilot trainee who was a DEI fatality.
The "boys" at Tailhook '91 warned what was coming.
Read the first CMR report. 6 pages. pdf => https://www.google.com/search?q=kara+hu ... e&ie=UTF-8
I did not swift boat Walz. I pointed out his factual record, what soldiers who served with him have said, what he has said & what his campaigns have published. If you wish to ignore the facts, or spin them, that's up to you. The voters will decide what they think is accurate & what is important to them.
I honor Walz's 24 years of part time service & his rising through the ranks & retirement as an E-8 Master Sergeant.
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:45 pm
And we wonder why DEI infuriates TrumpNation so much....they want to be allowed to "grab her by the......" all they want, without nasty things like laws or morals getting in the way.
I provided a link to the aircraft accident report for the first Navy fighter pilot trainee who was a DEI fatality.
The "boys" at Tailhook '91 warned what was coming.
Read the first CMR report. 6 pages. pdf => https://www.google.com/search?q=kara+hu ... e&ie=UTF-8
I don't understand. She died during training. She the first or last to do that?
But to the point...the woman you ripped on for "DEI" who chairs the FTC attended a school that neither of us would have been accepted to had we both applied in her same year, and teaches anti-trust law at Columbia. Saying she ain't qualified or DEI is flat out misogyny.... because of your life experience, you know doggone well what it means to qualify for something.
No one here wants lowered standards,OS.
Back to my comment....I'm talking about your good old boys network in the Navy that was so freaking toxic and disgusting and unprofessional...that you called a repeated behavior "the gauntlet". The fact that what happened has a freaking name for the behavior explains why so many Naval officers were thrown out. Clearly it was a known thing. And clearly, none of the officers who knew about this stuff put an end to it, and cleaned house internally.
Instead? You wait for Congress to get involved, and then clutch pearls when "they don't clean house right".
Protip: don't let something get so freaking bad that Pat Schroeder has to step in. Don't these guys have daughters?
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:45 pm
And we wonder why DEI infuriates TrumpNation so much....they want to be allowed to "grab her by the......" all they want, without nasty things like laws or morals getting in the way.
I provided a link to the aircraft accident report for the first Navy fighter pilot trainee who was a DEI fatality.
The "boys" at Tailhook '91 warned what was coming.
Read the first CMR report. 6 pages. pdf => https://www.google.com/search?q=kara+hu ... e&ie=UTF-8
I don't understand. She died during training. She the first or last to do that?
But to the point...the woman you ripped on for "DEI" who chairs the FTC attended a school that neither of us would have been accepted to had we both applied in her same year, and teaches anti-trust law at Columbia. Saying she ain't qualified or DEI is flat out misogyny.... because of your life experience, you know doggone well what it means to qualify for something.
No one here wants lowered standards,OS.
Back to my comment....I'm talking about your good old boys network in the Navy that was so freaking toxic and disgusting and unprofessional...that you called a repeated behavior "the gauntlet". The fact that what happened has a freaking name for the behavior explains why so many Naval officers were thrown out. Clearly it was a known thing. And clearly, none of the officers who knew about this stuff put an end to it, and cleaned house internally.
Instead? You wait for Congress to get involved, and then clutch pearls when "they don't clean house right".
Protip: don't let something get so freaking bad that Pat Schroeder has to step in. Don't these guys have daughters?
Had she been a male student pilot, her performance in training flights would have precluded her from qualifying in the F-14.
She received repeated, additional training that would not have been extended to a male student pilot.
She failed her initial CQ (carrier qual) period, received further training, & crashed in her second CQ attempt.
She was previously qualified in a tactical jet aircraft (EA-6A), assigned to a shore based squadron, & did not CQ.
There was a rush to generate & deploy a woman F-14 pilot.
The "gauntlet" was a impromptu unsanctioned thing, that was discouraged, not condoned & was not previously as severe as in '91.
Female participants were thought to be consensual.
The Navy was investigating Tailhook 91 & taking steps to prevent a repeat.
Help from Congress was not needed & generated a counterproductive backlash.
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:45 pm
And we wonder why DEI infuriates TrumpNation so much....they want to be allowed to "grab her by the......" all they want, without nasty things like laws or morals getting in the way.
I provided a link to the aircraft accident report for the first Navy fighter pilot trainee who was a DEI fatality.
The "boys" at Tailhook '91 warned what was coming.
Read the first CMR report. 6 pages. pdf => https://www.google.com/search?q=kara+hu ... e&ie=UTF-8
I don't understand. She died during training. She the first or last to do that?
But to the point...the woman you ripped on for "DEI" who chairs the FTC attended a school that neither of us would have been accepted to had we both applied in her same year, and teaches anti-trust law at Columbia. Saying she ain't qualified or DEI is flat out misogyny.... because of your life experience, you know doggone well what it means to qualify for something.
No one here wants lowered standards,OS.
Back to my comment....I'm talking about your good old boys network in the Navy that was so freaking toxic and disgusting and unprofessional...that you called a repeated behavior "the gauntlet". The fact that what happened has a freaking name for the behavior explains why so many Naval officers were thrown out. Clearly it was a known thing. And clearly, none of the officers who knew about this stuff put an end to it, and cleaned house internally.
Instead? You wait for Congress to get involved, and then clutch pearls when "they don't clean house right".
Protip: don't let something get so freaking bad that Pat Schroeder has to step in. Don't these guys have daughters?
Had she been a male student pilot, her performance in training flights would have precluded her from qualifying in the F-14.
She received repeated, additional training that would not have been extended to a male student pilot.
She failed her initial CQ (carrier qual) period, received further training, & crashed in her second CQ attempt.
She was previously qualified in a tactical jet aircraft (EA-6A), assigned to a shore based squadron, & did not CQ.
There was a rush to generate & deploy a woman F-14 pilot.
The "gauntlet" was a impromptu unsanctioned thing, that was discouraged, not condoned & was not previously as severe as in '91. Female participants were thought to be consensual.
The Navy was investigating Tailhook 91 & taking steps to prevent a repeat.
Help from Congress was not needed & generated a counterproductive backlash.
And that explains it. Are naval officers mentally deficient?
Consensual? Really?
Re: 2024
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 11:04 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Had she been a male student pilot, her performance in training flights would have precluded her from qualifying in the F-14.
She received repeated, additional training that would not have been extended to a male student pilot.
Well, that's not DEI.
DEI is: cast a wider net, because the usual MO gets a bunch of white guys who know someone.
A distiller colleague of mine was in charge of hiring new chemical engineers for a global Irish distillery. Made the first women hires...multiple....in the companies 100 year plus history. Know how she did it? Cast a wider net. That's it. Got well qualified applicants across the board.
That's it. That's DEI.
But to my point, plenty of men crash and burn in air training....literally...all the time. Is that DEI, or just this one crash that happened to involved a woman?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
The "gauntlet" was a impromptu unsanctioned thing, that was discouraged, not condoned & was not previously as severe as in '91.
It is by definition "sanctioned"...held during a sanctioned Navy event, OS. And "discouraged" is just about the dumbest thing you've posted here.
That ain't how the military works. Even I know that. Here's what you do: as an officer, you give a direct order not to do it. That's it. If one single officer had the.....am at a loss for words here......lukewarm IQ to know that "the gauntlet" is a bad thing to allow for any number of reasons.....that's it. Gauntlet shut down.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Female participants were thought to be consensual.
Again, if you're an idiot, sure, you can think that.
Here's an easy way to think of it: picture your daughter running the "gauntlet", with the press there with cameras. And if you're 100% cool with it....go right ahead. But if you're like "oh,heavens no..." then I promise you, the women didn't want to do it.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
The Navy was investigating Tailhook 91 & taking steps to prevent a repeat.
OS, tell me you're not this tone deaf:
According to Coughlin, she told Snyder, first by telephone, and then in person at breakfast, about the assault the next morning of September 8, saying, "I was almost gang-banged last night by a bunch of heck F-18 pilots."[27] Snyder, she said, seemingly preoccupied by another matter and lost in thought, distractedly replied, "Paula, you need to stop hanging around with those guys. That's what you've got to expect on the third deck with a bunch of drunk aviators" and made no further comment.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Help from Congress was not needed & generated a counterproductive backlash.
This taxpayer disagrees. So did the woman who went through your "Gauntlet".
I'm stunned you're defending this. How many times have you lectured us just this month for taking personal responsibility?
Yet you're telling us your Navy had "a gauntlet" for women in a freaking hotel where alcohol is served.....where officers MUST obey orders to stop doing stupid sh9t....and not one Naval officer shut that sh*t down?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Had she been a male student pilot, her performance in training flights would have precluded her from qualifying in the F-14.
She received repeated, additional training that would not have been extended to a male student pilot.
Well, that's not DEI.
DEI is: cast a wider net, because the usual MO gets a bunch of white guys who know someone.
A distiller colleague of mine was in charge of hiring new chemical engineers for a global Irish distillery. Made the first women hires...multiple....in the companies 100 year plus history. Know how she did it? Cast a wider net. That's it. Got well qualified applicants across the board.
That's it. That's DEI.
But to my point, plenty of men crash and burn in air training....literally...all the time. Is that DEI, or just this one crash that happened to involved a woman?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
The "gauntlet" was a impromptu unsanctioned thing, that was discouraged, not condoned & was not previously as severe as in '91.
It is by definition "sanctioned"...held during a sanctioned Navy event, OS. And "discouraged" is just about the dumbest thing you've posted here.
That ain't how the military works. Even I know that. Here's what you do: as an officer, you give a direct order not to do it. That's it. If one single officer had the.....am at a loss for words here......lukewarm IQ to know that "the gauntlet" is a bad thing to allow for any number of reasons.....that's it. Gauntlet shut down.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Female participants were thought to be consensual.
Again, if you're an idiot, sure, you can think that.
Here's an easy way to think of it: picture your daughter running the "gauntlet", with the press there with cameras. And if you're 100% cool with it....go right ahead. But if you're like "oh,heavens no..." then I promise you, the women didn't want to do it.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
The Navy was investigating Tailhook 91 & taking steps to prevent a repeat.
OS, tell me you're not this tone deaf:
According to Coughlin, she told Snyder, first by telephone, and then in person at breakfast, about the assault the next morning of September 8, saying, "I was almost gang-banged last night by a bunch of heck F-18 pilots."[27] Snyder, she said, seemingly preoccupied by another matter and lost in thought, distractedly replied, "Paula, you need to stop hanging around with those guys. That's what you've got to expect on the third deck with a bunch of drunk aviators" and made no further comment.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Help from Congress was not needed & generated a counterproductive backlash.
This taxpayer disagrees. So did the woman who went through your "Gauntlet".
I'm stunned you're defending this. How many times have you lectured us just this month for taking personal responsibility?
Yet you're telling us your Navy had "a gauntlet" for women in a freaking hotel where alcohol is served.....where officers MUST obey orders to stop doing stupid sh9t....and not one Naval officer shut that sh*t down?
It's DEI because a male pilot with her flight grades would have been washed out before being given additional training & a second CQ period.
Given her prior flight experience, she should have been assigned to fly the S-3 Viking. It's a much less demanding & more forgiving aircraft than the F-14 & much easier to land aboard a carrier than the F-14, but the Navy needed a woman fighter pilot as soon as possible.
You only have her version of her dialogue with her Admiral. He denies her account. His Deputy was going above & beyond to placate her.
She was a holdover in the job & already had a tenuous working relationship with her new boss.
Do you know the time required & the costs to train a pilot to the point where they can operate from a carrier, & to gain the experience, especially combat experience, necessary to build & sustain that capability throughout the ranks ? Millions are spent in bonuses just to retain these pilots & keep them from jumping to the airlines. Congressional meddling drove out many more than was necessary to prevent a repeat. A lot of good muscle was excised in cutting out the cancer.
How many women with first hand knowledge of the gauntlet have you spoken to ? Their attendance at Miramar, Oceana & other Naval Air Station happy hours was not diminished, even at Pax River.
The movie Top Gun debuted in 1986. Driving home from the theater, I remarked to my wife -- "the job of the Commanding Officers of Navy fighter & attack squadrons just got a lot harder." Five years later, we had Tailhook '91. Life imitated art.
Not only is he a fraud, never actually poor, and is engaging in a weirdly hyper intellectualized zero empathy conversation, he has zero recognition of the immense luxury it is to have a mother in law who herself could actually afford to come across the country to spend a large amount of time with her daughter and grandchild, neither daughter nor grandparent working to pay bills. No recognition that very few families could even imagine such an option.
Indeed, this hostility to any notion that people, especially poor and working class, desperately need to have as many people as possible working to pay the bills and yet child care is unaffordable. Heaven forbid that (Liberals, snarl) think it is morally important as well as economically efficient to actually help people with that problem.
Totally hilarious that they keep nominating 1%ers, telling themselves "this guy represents me", because who doesn't have Trump's gold plated toilet that they bought with money he inherited from Daddy?
Meanwhile, they hate Walz.......career National Guardsman with a teacher who is a teacher.
Makes total sense. Republican voters have it ALL figured out.
Read Vance's book & claim he was never actually poor. You just resent his success.
Had I not known Walz's history when I first saw the video's of his assault weapons rant & his campaign ad for governor, I would have come away with the impression that he had deployed to Afghanistan & seen combat there, ...& I listen closely for such things. What impression do you think most members of the general public came away with after hearing it. What % of the general public understand the difference between service in the National Guard & service in the active duty regular Army ?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Had she been a male student pilot, her performance in training flights would have precluded her from qualifying in the F-14.
She received repeated, additional training that would not have been extended to a male student pilot.
Well, that's not DEI.
DEI is: cast a wider net, because the usual MO gets a bunch of white guys who know someone.
A distiller colleague of mine was in charge of hiring new chemical engineers for a global Irish distillery. Made the first women hires...multiple....in the companies 100 year plus history. Know how she did it? Cast a wider net. That's it. Got well qualified applicants across the board.
That's it. That's DEI.
But to my point, plenty of men crash and burn in air training....literally...all the time. Is that DEI, or just this one crash that happened to involved a woman?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
The "gauntlet" was a impromptu unsanctioned thing, that was discouraged, not condoned & was not previously as severe as in '91.
It is by definition "sanctioned"...held during a sanctioned Navy event, OS. And "discouraged" is just about the dumbest thing you've posted here.
That ain't how the military works. Even I know that. Here's what you do: as an officer, you give a direct order not to do it. That's it. If one single officer had the.....am at a loss for words here......lukewarm IQ to know that "the gauntlet" is a bad thing to allow for any number of reasons.....that's it. Gauntlet shut down.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Female participants were thought to be consensual.
Again, if you're an idiot, sure, you can think that.
Here's an easy way to think of it: picture your daughter running the "gauntlet", with the press there with cameras. And if you're 100% cool with it....go right ahead. But if you're like "oh,heavens no..." then I promise you, the women didn't want to do it.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
The Navy was investigating Tailhook 91 & taking steps to prevent a repeat.
OS, tell me you're not this tone deaf:
According to Coughlin, she told Snyder, first by telephone, and then in person at breakfast, about the assault the next morning of September 8, saying, "I was almost gang-banged last night by a bunch of heck F-18 pilots."[27] Snyder, she said, seemingly preoccupied by another matter and lost in thought, distractedly replied, "Paula, you need to stop hanging around with those guys. That's what you've got to expect on the third deck with a bunch of drunk aviators" and made no further comment.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 10:29 pm
Help from Congress was not needed & generated a counterproductive backlash.
This taxpayer disagrees. So did the woman who went through your "Gauntlet".
I'm stunned you're defending this. How many times have you lectured us just this month for taking personal responsibility?
Yet you're telling us your Navy had "a gauntlet" for women in a freaking hotel where alcohol is served.....where officers MUST obey orders to stop doing stupid sh9t....and not one Naval officer shut that sh*t down?
It's DEI because a male pilot with her flight grades would have been washed out before being given additional training & a second CQ period.
Given her prior flight experience, she should have been assigned to fly the S-3 Viking. It's a much less demanding & more forgiving aircraft than the F-14 & much easier to land aboard a carrier than the F-14, but the Navy needed a woman fighter pilot as soon as possible.
You only have her version of her dialogue with her Admiral. He denies her account. His Deputy was going above & beyond to placate her.
She was a holdover in the job & already had a tenuous working relationship with her new boss.
Do you know the time required & the costs to train a pilot to the point where they can operate from a carrier, & to gain the experience, especially combat experience, necessary to build & sustain that capability throughout the ranks ? Millions are spent in bonuses just to retain these pilots & keep them from jumping to the airlines. Congressional meddling drove out many more than was necessary to prevent a repeat. A lot of good muscle was excised in cutting out the cancer.
How many women with first hand knowledge of the gauntlet have you spoken to ? Their attendance at Miramar, Oceana & other Naval Air Station happy hours was not diminished, even at Pax River.
The movie Top Gun debuted in 1986. Driving home from the theater, I remarked to my wife -- "the job of the Commanding Officers of Navy fighter & attack squadrons just got a lot harder." Five years later, we had Tailhook '91. Life imitated art.
Anyone figure out why her engine failed? How easy is it to land an F-14 when your engine fails? She was murdered. Given the culture, you can’t rule out sabotage.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:48 am
by old salt
ggait wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 1:56 pmIt will take a long time for the GOP to reboot even if Trump loses to Harris. And if he wins another term....
If you didn't see it, watch Nikki Haley's interview with Brett Baier on FNC.
She's running to head the Republican party after Trump loses the election.
Trump's too stubborn to follow her advice.
She'd be a runaway winner at the top of the (R) ticket.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 1:12 am
by old salt
DMac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 2:49 pm
Fellow Guardsman speaks out, telling it like it is ('cept for the "chief" part....don't know how a Lt. Col. with 20 years in phukks that up). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6UTysjpBo
Kinzinger maintains that Walz retired as an E-8 because of the high 3 yr average for retired pay purposes ?
The MN NG spokesperson said he reverted to E-8 because he had not completed the CSM Academy coursework necessary for promotion to E-9/CSM.
Which one is accurate, or both ?
As I mentioned before, to be sent to the CSM Academy & promoted to E-9, I think he would have incurred an additional 3 years of obligated service, which would have prevented his retirement & required him to deploy to Iraq -- a war which he & his wife opposed & said prompted him to enter politics & run for Congress.
Kinzinger was in the Air Guard & used USAF terminology for senior enlisted ranks.
Like we'd used Senior Chief, Master Chief, & Command Master Chief.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:14 am
by old salt
Enjoy.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:15 am
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:39 am
Had I not known Walz's history when I first saw the video's of his assault weapons rant & his campaign ad for governor, I would have come away with the impression that he had deployed to Afghanistan & seen combat there, ...& I listen closely for such things. What impression do you think most members of the general public came away with after hearing it. What % of the general public understand the difference between service in the National Guard & service in the active duty regular Army ?
I can tell you exactly what the average independent voter thinks about your attempt to trash Walz for political gain. We've seen this play before.
The message that they got from you, your pals at FoxNews, Vance, and Trump:
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:18 am
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 11:44 pm
How many women with first hand knowledge of the gauntlet have you spoken to ? Their attendance at Miramar, Oceana & other Naval Air Station happy hours was not diminished, even at Pax River.
The movie Top Gun debuted in 1986. Driving home from the theater, I remarked to my wife -- "the job of the Commanding Officers of Navy fighter & attack squadrons just got a lot harder." Five years later, we had Tailhook '91. Life imitated art.
So....she's lying about the gauntlet? That's where you're at? She just made it all up? That's what you're telling us?
The photos of grown men with their wangs out at the hotel......no comment there? Can't you tell me those were fake, or not from Tailhook Vegas?
You brought up your wife: would you let her run that gauntlet?
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:39 am
Had I not known Walz's history when I first saw the video's of his assault weapons rant & his campaign ad for governor, I would have come away with the impression that he had deployed to Afghanistan & seen combat there, ...& I listen closely for such things. What impression do you think most members of the general public came away with after hearing it. What % of the general public understand the difference between service in the National Guard & service in the active duty regular Army ?
I can tell you exactly what the average independent voter thinks about your attempt to trash Walz for political gain. We've seen this play before.
The message that they got from you, your pals at FoxNews, Vance, and Trump:
That's what you might think because you have no idea what I'm talking about, then you become outraged when someone explains what he really did, instead of the impression he leaves with you.