LaxPower Back-Up Stick

DU-fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:09 pm Revised based on good feedback:

1 Duke (5 - 0)
2 North Carolina (5 - 0)
3 Maryland (2 - 0)
4 Georgetown (2 - 0)
5 Rutgers (2 - 0)
6 Notre Dame (1 - 0)
7 Army (2 - 1)
8 Syracuse (1- 1)
9 Virginia (3 - 1)
10 Loyola (2 - 1)
11 Denver (4 - 2)
12 Ohio State (1 - 1)
13 Penn State (0 - 2)
14 Navy (2 - 0)
15 Lehigh (1 - 0)
16 UMass (0 - 0)
17 High Point (1 - 2)
18 Richmond (1 - 2)
19 UAlbany (1 - 0)
20 Johns Hopkins (1-1)

I am not sure on JHU. Time will tell. It is very hard to compare teams in different conferences. That will get even tougher in a month.

#7 has a win against #8, #8 against #9, but #9 has wins against #7 and #10? that doesn't make much sense. no worries, i know how rpi will come out.

10stone5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:54 pm

TAV wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:09 pm Revised based on good feedback:

1 Duke (5 - 0)
2 North Carolina (5 - 0)
3 Maryland (2 - 0)
4 Georgetown (2 - 0)
5 Rutgers (2 - 0)
6 Notre Dame (1 - 0)
7 Army (2 - 1)
8 Syracuse (1- 1)
9 Virginia (3 - 1)
10 Loyola (2 - 1)
11 Denver (4 - 2)
12 Ohio State (1 - 1)
13 Penn State (0 - 2)
14 Navy (2 - 0)
15 Lehigh (1 - 0)
16 UMass (0 - 0)
17 High Point (1 - 2)
18 Richmond (1 - 2)
19 UAlbany (1 - 0)
20 Johns Hopkins (1-1)

I am not sure on JHU. Time will tell. It is very hard to compare teams in different conferences. That will get even tougher in a month.

Georgetown is too high @ 4. 5-9 would beat them.

Based on what ?

My opinion, after watching the games.

Are you one of those that getting into the analysis etc...that’s all mostly bunk. These are 18-23 year olds playing a game - the top 25-30 programs can beat the other on any given day...parity.

I’m a Carolina Fan and I wouldn’t place them @2 right now.

In the end, it matters little - week to week polls. Making it the the Tourney is all that matters. Quality Wins and Strong Conference Play.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:51 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:09 pm Revised based on good feedback:

1 Duke (5 - 0)
2 North Carolina (5 - 0)
3 Maryland (2 - 0)
4 Georgetown (2 - 0)
5 Rutgers (2 - 0)
6 Notre Dame (1 - 0)
7 Army (2 - 1)
8 Syracuse (1- 1)
9 Virginia (3 - 1)
10 Loyola (2 - 1)
11 Denver (4 - 2)
12 Ohio State (1 - 1)
13 Penn State (0 - 2)
14 Navy (2 - 0)
15 Lehigh (1 - 0)
16 UMass (0 - 0)
17 High Point (1 - 2)
18 Richmond (1 - 2)
19 UAlbany (1 - 0)
20 Johns Hopkins (1-1)

I am not sure on JHU. Time will tell. It is very hard to compare teams in different conferences. That will get even tougher in a month.

#7 has a win against #8, #8 against #9, but #9 has wins against #7 and #10? that doesn't make much sense. no worries, i know how rpi will come out.

It makes perfect sense. It's not an assessment of tournament resumes...that's what the committee is for. The rankings are a fun and mostly pointless exercise to evaluate the relative strengths of teams on an ongoing basis—and they can and should change liberally when results dictate as much IMO. Not sure why you'd want them to function exactly like selection criteria.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:14 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:51 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:09 pm Revised based on good feedback:

1 Duke (5 - 0)
2 North Carolina (5 - 0)
3 Maryland (2 - 0)
4 Georgetown (2 - 0)
5 Rutgers (2 - 0)
6 Notre Dame (1 - 0)
7 Army (2 - 1)
8 Syracuse (1- 1)
9 Virginia (3 - 1)
10 Loyola (2 - 1)
11 Denver (4 - 2)
12 Ohio State (1 - 1)
13 Penn State (0 - 2)
14 Navy (2 - 0)
15 Lehigh (1 - 0)
16 UMass (0 - 0)
17 High Point (1 - 2)
18 Richmond (1 - 2)
19 UAlbany (1 - 0)
20 Johns Hopkins (1-1)

I am not sure on JHU. Time will tell. It is very hard to compare teams in different conferences. That will get even tougher in a month.

#7 has a win against #8, #8 against #9, but #9 has wins against #7 and #10? that doesn't make much sense. no worries, i know how rpi will come out.

It makes perfect sense. It's not an assessment of tournament resumes...that's what the committee is for. The rankings are a fun and mostly pointless exercise to evaluate the relative strengths of teams on an ongoing basis—and they can and should change liberally when results dictate as much IMO.

and yet for college hoops, a team with those 2 wins wouldn't be behind teams with one of those wins. or football, for that matter. must be a lax thing. it's fun.

TAV wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:10 pm

10stone5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:54 pm

TAV wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:09 pm Revised based on good feedback:

1 Duke (5 - 0)
2 North Carolina (5 - 0)
3 Maryland (2 - 0)
4 Georgetown (2 - 0)
5 Rutgers (2 - 0)
6 Notre Dame (1 - 0)
7 Army (2 - 1)
8 Syracuse (1- 1)
9 Virginia (3 - 1)
10 Loyola (2 - 1)
11 Denver (4 - 2)
12 Ohio State (1 - 1)
13 Penn State (0 - 2)
14 Navy (2 - 0)
15 Lehigh (1 - 0)
16 UMass (0 - 0)
17 High Point (1 - 2)
18 Richmond (1 - 2)
19 UAlbany (1 - 0)
20 Johns Hopkins (1-1)

I am not sure on JHU. Time will tell. It is very hard to compare teams in different conferences. That will get even tougher in a month.

Georgetown is too high @ 4. 5-9 would beat them.

Based on what ?

My opinion, after watching the games.

Are you one of those that getting into the analysis etc...that’s all mostly bunk. These are 18-23 year olds playing a game - the top 25-30 programs can beat the other on any given day...parity.

I’m a Carolina Fan and I wouldn’t place them @2 right now.

In the end, it matters little - week to week polls. Making it the the Tourney is all that matters. Quality Wins and Strong Conference Play.

What weaknesses did you see in Georgetown’s play versus those other teams?

Being in “bigger time“ conferences based on what I can derive. (Except army)

Georgetown has now made two D1 opponents—one of which was a team that was supposed to be pretty good (Nova)—look like high school programs. 35-2 over two games speaks for itself. Fully deserve a top 5 ranking at this point despite the relative lack of quality competition compared to a couple of other top 10 teams. I can't imagine watching their two games and then coming away with the belief they would lose to #s 5-9.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:30 pm Georgetown has now made two D1 opponents—one of which was a team that was supposed to be pretty good (Nova)—look like high school programs. 35-2 over two games speaks for itself. Fully deserve a top 5 ranking at this point despite the relative lack of quality competition compared to a couple of other top 10 teams. I can't imagine watching their two games and then coming away with the belief they would lose to #s 5-9.

To add to this, Villanova rebounded by traveling to Marquette and beating them to 16-14. That's a similar (actually better) margin to Denver's win over Marquette last week, and they scored significantly more goals than Denver did (16 vs.10). Obviously a small sample size, but I think we can deduce that Nova at the very least has a decent offense and is probably not a terrible team. What Georgetown did to them is simply stunning.

random observer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:44 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:30 pm Georgetown has now made two D1 opponents—one of which was a team that was supposed to be pretty good (Nova)—look like high school programs. 35-2 over two games speaks for itself. Fully deserve a top 5 ranking at this point despite the relative lack of quality competition compared to a couple of other top 10 teams. I can't imagine watching their two games and then coming away with the belief they would lose to #s 5-9.

To add to this, Villanova rebounded by traveling to Marquette and beating them to 16-14. That's a similar (actually better) margin to Denver's win over Marquette last week, and they scored significantly more goals than Denver did (16 vs.10). Obviously a small sample size, but I think we can deduce that Nova at the very least has a decent offense and is probably not a terrible team. What Georgetown did to them is simply stunning.

And even further... I don’t think St John’s has a great team this year, but they did score 19 goals versus Hofstra.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:16 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:14 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:51 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:09 pm Revised based on good feedback:

1 Duke (5 - 0)
2 North Carolina (5 - 0)
3 Maryland (2 - 0)
4 Georgetown (2 - 0)
5 Rutgers (2 - 0)
6 Notre Dame (1 - 0)
7 Army (2 - 1)
8 Syracuse (1- 1)
9 Virginia (3 - 1)
10 Loyola (2 - 1)
11 Denver (4 - 2)
12 Ohio State (1 - 1)
13 Penn State (0 - 2)
14 Navy (2 - 0)
15 Lehigh (1 - 0)
16 UMass (0 - 0)
17 High Point (1 - 2)
18 Richmond (1 - 2)
19 UAlbany (1 - 0)
20 Johns Hopkins (1-1)

I am not sure on JHU. Time will tell. It is very hard to compare teams in different conferences. That will get even tougher in a month.

#7 has a win against #8, #8 against #9, but #9 has wins against #7 and #10? that doesn't make much sense. no worries, i know how rpi will come out.

It makes perfect sense. It's not an assessment of tournament resumes...that's what the committee is for. The rankings are a fun and mostly pointless exercise to evaluate the relative strengths of teams on an ongoing basis—and they can and should change liberally when results dictate as much IMO.

and yet for college hoops, a team with those 2 wins wouldn't be behind teams with one of those wins. or football, for that matter. must be a lax thing. it's fun.

College basketball ranks teams ahead of teams who they lost too all the time. It's more prevalent in college hoops than anywhere else. Because H2H is not a bulletproof indicator of who's the better team.

And RPI has more weight with larger sample sizes.

Top 9 “Super Teams”,
about what you’d expect,
this week’s media poll.

If there are 9 “super teams”; is there really a super team?

jrn19 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:14 am If there are 9 “super teams”; is there really a super team?

Hah !

Division I Media Poll
Rank Team Points Prev
1 Duke (5 - 0) 442 (10) 1
2 North Carolina (5 - 0) 441 (9) 3
3 Maryland (2 - 0) 415 (2) 4
4 Georgetown (2 - 0) 367 (1) 5
5 Rutgers (2 - 0) 347 10
6 Syracuse (1 - 1) 339 (1) 9
7 Army (2 - 1) 331 7
8 Notre Dame (1 - 0) 310 8
9 Virginia (3 - 1) 301 2
10 Loyola (2 - 1) 241 12
11 Denver (4 - 2) 235 11
12 Ohio State (1 - 1) 198 6
13 Lehigh (1 - 0) 149 17
14 UMass (0 - 0) 133 14
15 Penn State (0 - 2) 130 13
16 Richmond (1 - 2) 95 18
17 Navy (2 - 0) 74 19
18 UAlbany (1 - 0) 67 20
19 High Point (1 - 2) 65 15
20 Hofstra (2 - 1) 48

• I do not get how Syracuse can be ranked ahead of Army 8 days after Army beat Syracuse at home. That makes zero sense.

• I was unfortunately right about Loyola being ranked ahead of Denver.

• I was going to put Hofstra at 20 in front of JHU, but their loss to St. Johns and St. Johns getting beat by Georgetown 19-1 made it really hard.

• Averaging Media input has issues when it comes to polls.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... ens-top-20

NIKE/US LACROSSE
DIVISION I MEN’S TOP 20

MARCH 1, 2021
1 Duke 5-0 1 3/7 at No. 16 Richmond
2 Maryland 2-0 2 3/6 vs. No. 19 Johns Hopkins
3 North Carolina 5-0 4 3/6 vs. Mercer
4 Georgetown 2-0 5 3/2 at Mount St. Mary's
5 Rutgers 2-0 8 3/6 vs. Michigan
6 Virginia 3-1 3 3/3 vs. High Point
7 Army 2-1 7 3/6 at Boston U.
8 Syracuse 1-1 12 3/6 vs. Vermont
9 Denver 4-2 9 3/6 at St. John's
10 Notre Dame 1-0 10 3/6 vs. Bellarmine
11 Loyola 2-1 13 3/6 at No. 14 Lehigh
12 Ohio State 1-1 6 3/6 at No. 15 Penn State
13 UMass 0-0 14 3/6 at No. 20 Hofstra
14 Lehigh 1-0 15 3/6 vs. No. 11 Loyola
15 Penn State 0-2 11 3/6 vs. No. 12 Ohio State
16 Richmond 1-2 17 3/7 vs. No. 1 Duke
17 Navy 2-0 18 3/20 at Lafayette
18 Albany 1-0 NR 3/6 at Hartford
19 Johns Hopkins 1-1 20 3/6 at No. 2 Maryland
20 Hofstra 2-1 NR 3/2 vs. Wagner

ALSO CONSIDERED (ALPHABETICAL ORDER): BOSTON U. (2-0), BRYANT (2-1), BUCKNELL (0-0), HIGH POINT (1-2), STONY BROOK (2-1), UMBC (1-0), VILLANOVA (1-1)

DU-fan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:26 pm 6 Syracuse (1 - 1) 339 (1) 9
7 Army (2 - 1) 331 7
9 Virginia (3 - 1) 301 2

• I do not get how Syracuse can be ranked ahead of Army 8 days after Army beat Syracuse at home. That makes zero sense.

No matter what order you put them in, there's going to be a part that doesn't make sense. UVA > Army > SU > UVA... it's circular.

You could question the same about Army > UVA.

jhu08 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:43 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:26 pm 6 Syracuse (1 - 1) 339 (1) 9
7 Army (2 - 1) 331 7
9 Virginia (3 - 1) 301 2

• I do not get how Syracuse can be ranked ahead of Army 8 days after Army beat Syracuse at home. That makes zero sense.

No matter what order you put them in, there's going to be a part that doesn't make sense. UVA > Army > SU > UVA... it's circular.

You could question the same about Army > UVA.

Agreed, but polls traditionally seem to give preference to recent defeats as they "try" to rank teams based on most recent play vs. the entire season. For polls, it is better to lose early than later in the season.

In any given week, if you beat someone above you, you move up. If you lose to a team below you, you probably move below them. They will give lower preference / credit to prior week wins / losses.

DU-fan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:48 pm

jhu08 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:43 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:26 pm 6 Syracuse (1 - 1) 339 (1) 9
7 Army (2 - 1) 331 7
9 Virginia (3 - 1) 301 2

• I do not get how Syracuse can be ranked ahead of Army 8 days after Army beat Syracuse at home. That makes zero sense.

No matter what order you put them in, there's going to be a part that doesn't make sense. UVA > Army > SU > UVA... it's circular.

You could question the same about Army > UVA.

Agreed, but polls traditionally seem to give preference to recent defeats as they "try" to rank teams based on most recent play vs. the entire season. For polls, it is better to lose early than later in the season.

In any given week, if you beat someone above you, you move up. If you lose to some below you, you probably move below them. They will give lower preference / credit to prior week wins / losses.

these games were not months ago, they were within the last several weeks.

so you can go with recency bias even in the very short term (one game) or mix some resume in.

interestingly, teams 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 and 10 don't have a top 10 win. only one team has 2 top 10s, and they're fortunate to not slip out of the top 10 themselves at 9.

obviously, none of this matters... unless, in a covid-limited non-conference year... we get some bastardization of the nc$$ selection process. and the b1g's ears just perked up.

maybe 'cuse got the bump with the #1 vote they received!

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:03 pm obviously, none of this matters... unless, in a covid-limited non-conference year... we get some bastardization of the nc$$ selection process. and the b1g's ears just perked up.

This is going to be an interesting year. IMHO, the NCAA selection committee will have a very hard time and some good teams are going to be snubbed. They will basically be making a subjective decision on how many teams in the ACC, B1G, Big East, and Patriot league to pick based on complete bias.