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Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:20 pm
by OCanada
All nice if true but then truth has been elusive in the ME
Last time around aluminum tubes were WMD.
The claim. Has been made Iran was behind attacks on SA. Except now it turns out they originated in Iraq.
Just a reminder removing an unexplored mine is not the same thing as placing an unexplored mine. Where are the photos of the mines being placed? That attacks were launched seems apparent but who and why still seems quite questionable
Basically not very many people believe the narrative or think it is worthy of being s cause for war. Meanwhile the EU is not aboard.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:25 pm
by old salt
Just because the EU has yet to join a maritime security coalition, does not mean they reject the US intel attributing
these attacks to Iran.
They're still trying to salvage the JCPOA & get Iran back to the table.
There's no question that Iran fired a SAM into a busy civil air corridor, endangering & disrupting air traffic, in intl airspace they had not declared a war zone. US UAVs have lawfully operated on that flight path in intl airspace for years without incident.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gulf ... -statement
...the UK concludes that:
It is almost certain that a branch of the Iranian military - the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps - attacked the two tankers on 13 June. No other state or non-state actor could plausibly have been responsible.
There is recent precedent for attacks by Iran against oil tankers. The Emirati-led investigation of the 12 May attack on four oil tankers near the port of Fujairah concluded that it was conducted by a sophisticated state actor. We are confident that Iran bears responsibility for that attack.
The Foreign Secretary said:
I condemn yesterday’s attacks on two vessels in the Gulf of Oman. Our own assessment leads us to conclude that responsibility for the attacks almost certainly lies with Iran. These latest attacks build on a pattern of destabilising Iranian behaviour and pose a serious danger to the region.
In targeting civilian shipping, international norms have been violated. It is essential that tankers and crews are able to pass through international waters safely. We call on Iran urgently to cease all forms of destabilising activity. The UK remains in close coordination with international partners to find diplomatic solutions to de-escalate tensions.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:20 pm
by old salt
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:21 pm
by old salt
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:30 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
by jhu72
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits. I wonder if a presidential campaign of love letters, tongue kisses and other bodily fluid exchange can put the genie back in the bottle.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
by tech37
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:03 am
by holmes435
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
You do realize we pulled out of the agreement more than a year ago.
Iran could have increased production at any point under the deal, but didn't. If they did increase it, we had tons of surveillance in place to detect it and had lots of options available to us if they did.
Only after Trump's blunder has Iran started back on the nuclear weapons track, this is his to own 100%
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:04 am
by tech37
holmes435 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:03 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
You do realize we pulled out of the agreement more than a year ago.
Iran could have increased production at any point under the deal, but didn't. If they did increase it, we had tons of surveillance in place to detect it and had lots of options available to us if they did.
Only after Trump's blunder has Iran started back on the nuclear weapons track, this is his to own 100%
You missed the point of the post but thanks for chiming in.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:14 am
by jhu72
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:04 am
holmes435 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:03 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
You do realize we pulled out of the agreement more than a year ago.
Iran could have increased production at any point under the deal, but didn't. If they did increase it, we had tons of surveillance in place to detect it and had lots of options available to us if they did.
Only after Trump's blunder has Iran started back on the nuclear weapons track, this is his to own 100%
You missed the point of the post but thanks for chiming in.
No, I don't think he missed the point, that Trump is a moron.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:23 am
by tech37
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:14 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:04 am
holmes435 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:03 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
You do realize we pulled out of the agreement more than a year ago.
Iran could have increased production at any point under the deal, but didn't. If they did increase it, we had tons of surveillance in place to detect it and had lots of options available to us if they did.
Only after Trump's blunder has Iran started back on the nuclear weapons track, this is his to own 100%
You missed the point of the post but thanks for chiming in.
No, I don't think he missed the point, that Trump is a moron.
Way to answer the question 72!
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:36 am
by jhu72
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
Learn some physics short chain. Stupid and proud of it, aren't you short chain.
They have increased their stockpile of low grade Uranium.
This is not weapons grade or even close, or even power plant grade. They have simply breached the agreement in the least offensive fashion possible. They were allowed to keep centrifuges. The next escalation is to start spinning those centrifuges to enrich to 20%. I am guessing they won't do that in the near term. This is just pressure on the Europeans, China, Russia to start doing something on the sanction front. At the same time tweaking Trump's nose.
We don't need space based gamma ray detection capability to make this determination. On ground inspectors can verify this with their eyes. Iran isn't doing this in a clandestine fashion, they are doing this in the open in their known - inspectable - nuclear plants. They want the world to know.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:37 am
by jhu72
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:23 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:14 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:04 am
holmes435 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:03 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
You do realize we pulled out of the agreement more than a year ago.
Iran could have increased production at any point under the deal, but didn't. If they did increase it, we had tons of surveillance in place to detect it and had lots of options available to us if they did.
Only after Trump's blunder has Iran started back on the nuclear weapons track, this is his to own 100%
You missed the point of the post but thanks for chiming in.
No, I don't think he missed the point, that Trump is a moron.
Way to answer the question 72!
You prefer the above answer better short chain?
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:15 pm
by tech37
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:36 am
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:45 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am
Iran is now officially out of compliance with the nuclear agreement. They have exceeded stockpile limits.
How'd they do that without our technological advancements (space-based of course) detecting radiation emissions 72?
Learn some physics short chain. Stupid and proud of it, aren't you short chain.
They have increased their stockpile of low grade Uranium.
This is not weapons grade or even close, or even power plant grade. They have simply breached the agreement in the least offensive fashion possible. They were allowed to keep centrifuges. The next escalation is to start spinning those centrifuges to enrich to 20%. I am guessing they won't do that in the near term. This is just pressure on the Europeans, China, Russia to start doing something on the sanction front. At the same time tweaking Trump's nose.
We don't need space based gamma ray detection capability to make this determination. On ground inspectors can verify this with their eyes. Iran isn't doing this in a clandestine fashion, they are doing this in the open in their known - inspectable - nuclear plants. They want the world to know.
A class act as always aren't you 72?
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:33 pm
by holmes435
tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:04 am
You missed the point of the post but thanks for chiming in.
I can only respond to what you write, not what you thought. My post answers yours whether it was sarcastic or leading or straight up.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:51 pm
by CU77
That there is some pretty heavy wetdream inducing warporn for the warmongers ...
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:12 pm
by old salt
Iran's claim that the US drone they shot down had entered their airspace, may be based on their claim of what constitutes their airspace, as opposed to international airspace.
If you click on the map in
this article you'll see an area marked "disputed boundary". That may be based on what looks to be 2 small islands. You can see the "bubbles" in the boundary of Iran's territorial waters & overlaying airspace, based on adjacent offshore islands.
There may be a dispute between Iran & the rest of the intl community on the boundary in that area, with Iran basing their shoot down on the drone penetrating that disputed airspace.
Iran filed a complaint with the UN. I've yet to find any reporting on what civil ATC radar tapes show.
We still have unsubstantiated dueling narratives.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:17 pm
by jhu72
tech37 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:08 pm
Gotta love how the resistance fools want to give the benefit of the doubt to the fascist mullahs rather than our admin
Fascist mullahs, fascist Trumpnista, they are all fascists. Not much to chose between.
Fascist here, fascists there, the ones here scare me more.
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:20 pm
by jhu72
old salt wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:28 pm
jhu72 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:39 am
I had a really interesting and humorous talk with a high school friend of one of my sons. Now early thirties oil trader. We talked about Iran possibly shutting down the straits. How easy it is, how many possibilities they have. They can easily do it without violating any law or doing anything that could really be classified as an act of war.
Tell us how they could do it without violating international law. Specifics please.
Did your friend consider blowing holes in 6 tankers a violation of law ? How 'bout shooting down an aircraft in intl airspace ?
Use your imagination. If you can't see a way to do it, maybe they can't either. I would not count on it. They don't need to blow 6 inch holes in anything to close the straits!
Re: Our Undeclared Wars
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:26 am
by OCanada
OS you keep jabbering about rite of passage and international law here but ignore those kinds of concerns elsewhere.
That they CAN close the straits is beyond question. That the USA has not had a plan is also beyond question. That a spark could set off a huge regional or perhaps global
is also beyond question.
Since the last confrontation Iran has had decades to perfect strategy. They are the brightest bulbs in the ME. I suspect they have used the time wisely as opposed to our vurrenr administration which is now demanding they return to doing what they were doing before trump got involved looking for something he can claim as a victory.
For the record Iran has never officially recognized the USA has any rights in the straits. This would not be a USA Iran conflict with everyone else watching. Iraq proved how badly people can kick the pooch