Tewaaraton Award 2024

[The Orfling]

[flash=][/flash]

Granted I have not been paying attention but they named 5 "finalists". What can this mean if votes have not yet been cast? That no one other than these 5 can win or is eligible to receive votes? If so that would inevitably skew the voting. Who says these are the 5?

In Heisman voting it seems that they name "finalists' and invite them to NYC. If I am not wrong this is post vote. So "finalists" is a misnomer. The winner is known. They are the top vote getters and are used to hype the event. Exploitation plain and simple.

The short answer is "yes". Only the five Finalists can win. At the risk of being corrected (and loosely), initially, there is a "watch" list at the beginning of the season. Mid-season, the watch list is updated with added names. Near the end of the season, a 25 player list is announced (nominees?). That list of 25 is narrowed to five. The winner is chosen from those five players. At least once there have been co-winners.

.... I'm not defending the process, just trying to describe it.

Just clarifying this if there was any remaining confusion -- the Tewaaraton, by its stated terms, is not chosen until after post-season play has concluded. It is a "nominee" process as opposed to the Heisman model (where the vote has occurred and the highest vote-getters are brought to NYC for the live ceremony). The Tewaaraton Foundation names the five finalist nominees after the NCAA selection show, so there's basically an assurance that most/all of the finalists will be in the tournament, but the final selection is not until after the NCAA tournament has concluded.

[coda]

Some interesting numbers from Lacrosse Reference, which has a rubric for computing the contribution towards an eventual goal (including actually scoring the goal), or preventing an eventual goal by the opponent, of every play. Here are the top-16 in expected goals per game:

stat_tewy.jpg


Shelly is #53.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/sta ... ll-d1-men/

I have to be honest I dont know what this evaluating. Lets take Cornell as the example. Long is at 5 pts per game and Kirst is at 4.79 pts per game. Kirst is at 4.50 on this list and Long is not on the list at all, so somewhere below 2.34 goals per game. I think Kirst is the best player in the Ivy, but the gap seems very wide. McMeekin is the 4th best fogo?? That makes 0 sense. Naso is above Wambach, despite Wambach winning at a much higher clip (.611 v .559), less turnovers, equal pts in less games. What are the adjustments? Is there a SOS adjustment? Lot of questions based on the results, which are is not uncommon.

[Gatsby]

Some interesting numbers from Lacrosse Reference, which has a rubric for computing the contribution towards an eventual goal (including actually scoring the goal), or preventing an eventual goal by the opponent, of every play. Here are the top-16 in expected goals per game:

stat_tewy.jpg


Shelly is #53.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/sta ... ll-d1-men/

I have to be honest I dont know what this evaluating. Lets take Cornell as the example. Long is at 5 pts per game and Kirst is at 4.79 pts per game. Kirst is at 4.50 on this list and Long is not on the list at all, so somewhere below 2.34 goals per game. I think Kirst is the best player in the Ivy, but the gap seems very wide. McMeekin is the 4th best fogo?? That makes 0 sense. Naso is above Wambach, despite Wambach winning at a much higher clip (.611 v .559), less turnovers, equal pts in less games. What are the adjustments? Is there a SOS adjustment? Lot of questions based on the results, which are is not uncommon.

I don't think it evaluates anything. Eventually, LaxRef will put up statistics showing offensive production compared with barometric pressure and people will hold up the chart to show that someone from SUNY Schenectady leads the nation when the dew point is 78.2.

[GaitsRightHand]

Not Tewaaraton Related but IL's national players of the year came out...
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... year/63487

Lt. Raymond J. Enners Outstanding Player of the Year: Ajax Zappitello, Maryland
Lt. Col. JI Turnbull Outstanding Attackman: Connor Shellenberger, Virginia
Lt. j.g. Donald MacLaughlin Jr. Outstanding Midfielder: Shane Knobloch, Rutgers,
William C. Schmeisser Defensive Player of the Year: Jake Piseno, Albany
Ensign C. Markland Kelly Jr. Outstanding Goalie, Liam Entenmann: Notre Dame

[wgdsr]

Not Tewaaraton Related but IL's national players of the year came out...
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... year/63487

Lt. Raymond J. Enners Outstanding Player of the Year: Ajax Zappitello, Maryland
Lt. Col. JI Turnbull Outstanding Attackman: Connor Shellenberger, Virginia
Lt. j.g. Donald MacLaughlin Jr. Outstanding Midfielder: Shane Knobloch, Rutgers,
William C. Schmeisser Defensive Player of the Year: Jake Piseno, Albany
Ensign C. Markland Kelly Jr. Outstanding Goalie, Liam Entenmann: Notre Dame

inside lacrosse just wrote the article. that's the coaches awards. all-americans probably come up next.

looks well done. great to see an all time defenseman taking home the big hardware, awesome. and it was unanimous. that also makes room for piseno, who was fantastic.

[Hoxwurth]

O'Neill's listed weight jumped this year, and I thought he looked bigger. Don't think the muscle he added improved his game and may have slowed him down a quarter-step. The fact his assists were down probably led to his decreased shooting efficiency this season. Not at all the same player as in 2023, which surprised me.

Feels like Shellenberger has all the momentum and the inside track. Not only does ND have two guys who can take votes from each other, but they also have a deep roster with a number of guys who could explode over the course of Championship weekend. Outside Millon and Cormier, whose successes benefit Shellenberger anyway, Virginia has fewer mouths to feed.

As for Brandau, I still think Sam King did more with less and did not get enough credit for his season. How much credit depends on how you assess the Ivy League this year, and I have it as below average.

[coda]

O'Neill's listed weight jumped this year, and I thought he looked bigger. Don't think the muscle he added improved his game and may have slowed him down a quarter-step. The fact his assists were down probably led to his decreased shooting efficiency this season. Not at all the same player as in 2023, which surprised me.

Feels like Shellenberger has all the momentum and the inside track. Not only does ND have two guys who can take votes from each other, but they also have a deep roster with a number of guys who could explode over the course of Championship weekend. Outside Millon and Cormier, whose successes benefit Shellenberger anyway, Virginia has fewer mouths to feed.

As for Brandau, I still think Sam King did more with less and did not get enough credit for his season. How much credit depends on how you assess the Ivy League this year, and I have it as below average.

I feel like it is Shelly's award, unless someone goes absolutely nuts. Feels like lacrosse wants him to win it, because they dont want him to be known as the greatest lacrosse player never to win it.

[BigTurn]

Some interesting numbers from Lacrosse Reference, which has a rubric for computing the contribution towards an eventual goal (including actually scoring the goal), or preventing an eventual goal by the opponent, of every play. Here are the top-16 in expected goals per game:

stat_tewy.jpg


Shelly is #53.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/sta ... ll-d1-men/

I have to be honest I dont know what this evaluating. Lets take Cornell as the example. Long is at 5 pts per game and Kirst is at 4.79 pts per game. Kirst is at 4.50 on this list and Long is not on the list at all, so somewhere below 2.34 goals per game. I think Kirst is the best player in the Ivy, but the gap seems very wide. McMeekin is the 4th best fogo?? That makes 0 sense. Naso is above Wambach, despite Wambach winning at a much higher clip (.611 v .559), less turnovers, equal pts in less games. What are the adjustments? Is there a SOS adjustment? Lot of questions based on the results, which are is not uncommon.

I don't think it evaluates anything. Eventually, LaxRef will put up statistics showing offensive production compared with barometric pressure and people will hold up the chart to show that someone from SUNY Schenectady leads the nation when the dew point is 78.2.

Laughed out loud

[Chousnake]

Some interesting numbers from Lacrosse Reference, which has a rubric for computing the contribution towards an eventual goal (including actually scoring the goal), or preventing an eventual goal by the opponent, of every play. Here are the top-16 in expected goals per game:

stat_tewy.jpg


Shelly is #53.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/sta ... ll-d1-men/

I have to be honest I dont know what this evaluating. Lets take Cornell as the example. Long is at 5 pts per game and Kirst is at 4.79 pts per game. Kirst is at 4.50 on this list and Long is not on the list at all, so somewhere below 2.34 goals per game. I think Kirst is the best player in the Ivy, but the gap seems very wide. McMeekin is the 4th best fogo?? That makes 0 sense. Naso is above Wambach, despite Wambach winning at a much higher clip (.611 v .559), less turnovers, equal pts in less games. What are the adjustments? Is there a SOS adjustment? Lot of questions based on the results, which are is not uncommon.

I don't think it evaluates anything. Eventually, LaxRef will put up statistics showing offensive production compared with barometric pressure and people will hold up the chart to show that someone from SUNY Schenectady leads the nation when the dew point is 78.2.

It evaluates a player's supposed contribution through an analytics stat called "expected goals per game." Some of the major sports are using similar stats. I have no idea how it is computed here or whether there is any validity to it.

[Finster]

O'Neill's listed weight jumped this year, and I thought he looked bigger. Don't think the muscle he added improved his game and may have slowed him down a quarter-step. The fact his assists were down probably led to his decreased shooting efficiency this season. Not at all the same player as in 2023, which surprised me.

Feels like Shellenberger has all the momentum and the inside track. Not only does ND have two guys who can take votes from each other, but they also have a deep roster with a number of guys who could explode over the course of Championship weekend. Outside Millon and Cormier, whose successes benefit Shellenberger anyway, Virginia has fewer mouths to feed.

As for Brandau, I still think Sam King did more with less and did not get enough credit for his season. How much credit depends on how you assess the Ivy League this year, and I have it as below average.

I feel like it is Shelly's award, unless someone goes absolutely nuts. Feels like lacrosse wants him to win it, because they dont want him to be known as the greatest lacrosse player never to win it.

I’d agree. And not for nothing, if UVA can get past Maryland and Notre Dame, even if he produced few points, the very fact that the Wahoos would win would likely hand it to him.

[coda]

Matt Brandau deserves the Tewaaraton award for being the best player this season. The fact that his team didn’t make the tournament should have no bearing on this.

Give him the Tewey and then give an award to tournament MVP and be done with it.

Liam Entenmann listed as a finalist is just absurd. Pure ESPN hype. Hell, Pat Kavanagh is the MVP on Notre Dame. I could have made 8 saves (44%) behind that defense on Saturday.

It's May 20, 2024, and people still hyping up Matt Brandau.

Yes, best season by a very wide margin. And it's BS that he did it against 'weak' competition.

We've been through the stats, analyzed performances against same competitors, even looked at differences in teammate production efficiency.

Brandau stands out, way out, on all fair analysis. If season ended two weeks ago, shoe in.

Doesn't mean he gets it. I'd predicted that if Yale didn't make the tourney it would be extremely unlikely as the Committee takes into account post season play as well as regular season.

My favorite remains Shellenberger. It'll matter a ton how he does next weekend, but I have him currently a nose ahead of anyone else. I don't think either Kav is nearly the right answer, but a huge weekend by Kav and a falter by Shelly could push it there.

I'm also rooting for UVA to put it altogether, so that's where my head is at anyway!

I looked a couple weeks ago and Brandau’s defensive schedule was well behind guys like Kirst and Shelly. Kirst actually had the toughest at the time. 99% sure that Shelly has now passed him. Just curious what you used to say the criticism of his defensive schedule was weaker than the others was BS

Again, his production was against just as solid a defensive schedule as the others, maybe a game less than Kirst, but not a weak sister schedule. And his production was light years better, with less team support by a wide margin as well.

I'm not trying to suggest that he'll actually win the Tewey nor even that he should, as I'm hoping Shelly will continue to shine down the stretch and earn it outright. I think he's been the best player in the sport year in and year out, even if not the best season in any given year.

But if it was based solely on regular 2024 season, it's just not a close call.

I’ll have to look at again, but I would bet that the median defensive ranking he faced was behind guys like Kirst and Shelly. That doesn’t mean he is unworthy, he almost averaged 7 pts a game. Its can be true that he played a weak defensive SOS and deserves the Twaaraton.. see the Thompsons

ok, ok, I guess the question is what one considers "weak".
I don't consider any of those schedules "weak", including what Albany played.

I think teams that give up a ton of points in multiple games aren't exactly defensive powerhouses and each of these guys had such games both in and out of conference as well as against teams that give up a lower average.

Just as importantly, if we looked at the handful of crossover games against exact same competition, Brandau out performed statistically as well...again, with less support and possessions.

Just a matter of a tremendous regular season year that was better statistically be a wide margin, not stating that he's necessarily the best player in the sport. Just props where props are due.

I decide to look and used Massey Defensive Rankings to get an idea of the schedule each played

Kav- median Ranking #11. 4 teams outside the top 20 26.7%...7 top 10 defense 46.7%

Shelly- median ranking #14... 5 teams outside the top 20 29.4%...6 top 10 defense 35.3%

Brandau- median ranking #25... 9 teams outside the top 20 60%.... top 10 defense 5 33.3%

ONeill- median ranking #16.... 7 teams outside the top 20 36.8%....7 top 10 defenses 36.8%

Kirst- median ranking #14.....6 teams outside the top 20 42.9%......6 top 10 defenses 42.9%

I think it is fair to say the Brandau played a weaker schedule, than the other top Attackmen

[Farfromgeneva]

Let's just settle this once and for all.^ Brandau was a courtesy selection because if he wasn't picked as a "finalist," the cupcake league would be up in arms, reading everyone the riot act. Can you imagine how insufferable they would be for years? So fine. We acknowledge he had a great season (and he did), and we can show his little picture in the infographic throughout champ weekend. I guess the question is whether ESPN bothers to slice up a few highlights of him, or just gives him a quick mention.

Watching Shelly and Kav tear it up, talking about Oneils' heartbreaking exit...and oh yea, wait a minute who the heck is THAT guy?

Did you do your social community/media training from a Rutgers fan or dude named Peter Brown by chance?

[MDlaxfan76]

Matt Brandau deserves the Tewaaraton award for being the best player this season. The fact that his team didn’t make the tournament should have no bearing on this.

Give him the Tewey and then give an award to tournament MVP and be done with it.

Liam Entenmann listed as a finalist is just absurd. Pure ESPN hype. Hell, Pat Kavanagh is the MVP on Notre Dame. I could have made 8 saves (44%) behind that defense on Saturday.

It's May 20, 2024, and people still hyping up Matt Brandau.

Yes, best season by a very wide margin. And it's BS that he did it against 'weak' competition.

We've been through the stats, analyzed performances against same competitors, even looked at differences in teammate production efficiency.

Brandau stands out, way out, on all fair analysis. If season ended two weeks ago, shoe in.

Doesn't mean he gets it. I'd predicted that if Yale didn't make the tourney it would be extremely unlikely as the Committee takes into account post season play as well as regular season.

My favorite remains Shellenberger. It'll matter a ton how he does next weekend, but I have him currently a nose ahead of anyone else. I don't think either Kav is nearly the right answer, but a huge weekend by Kav and a falter by Shelly could push it there.

I'm also rooting for UVA to put it altogether, so that's where my head is at anyway!

I looked a couple weeks ago and Brandau’s defensive schedule was well behind guys like Kirst and Shelly. Kirst actually had the toughest at the time. 99% sure that Shelly has now passed him. Just curious what you used to say the criticism of his defensive schedule was weaker than the others was BS

Again, his production was against just as solid a defensive schedule as the others, maybe a game less than Kirst, but not a weak sister schedule. And his production was light years better, with less team support by a wide margin as well.

I'm not trying to suggest that he'll actually win the Tewey nor even that he should, as I'm hoping Shelly will continue to shine down the stretch and earn it outright. I think he's been the best player in the sport year in and year out, even if not the best season in any given year.

But if it was based solely on regular 2024 season, it's just not a close call.

I’ll have to look at again, but I would bet that the median defensive ranking he faced was behind guys like Kirst and Shelly. That doesn’t mean he is unworthy, he almost averaged 7 pts a game. Its can be true that he played a weak defensive SOS and deserves the Twaaraton.. see the Thompsons

ok, ok, I guess the question is what one considers "weak".
I don't consider any of those schedules "weak", including what Albany played.

I think teams that give up a ton of points in multiple games aren't exactly defensive powerhouses and each of these guys had such games both in and out of conference as well as against teams that give up a lower average.

Just as importantly, if we looked at the handful of crossover games against exact same competition, Brandau out performed statistically as well...again, with less support and possessions.

Just a matter of a tremendous regular season year that was better statistically be a wide margin, not stating that he's necessarily the best player in the sport. Just props where props are due.

I decide to look and used Massey Defensive Rankings to get an idea of the schedule each played

Kav- median Ranking #11. 4 teams outside the top 20 26.7%...7 top 10 defense 46.7%

Shelly- median ranking #14... 5 teams outside the top 20 29.4%...6 top 10 defense 35.3%

Brandau- median ranking #25... 9 teams outside the top 20 60%.... top 10 defense 5 33.3%

ONeill- median ranking #16.... 7 teams outside the top 20 36.8%....7 top 10 defenses 36.8%

Kirst- median ranking #14.....6 teams outside the top 20 42.9%......6 top 10 defenses 42.9%

I think it is fair to say the Brandau played a weaker schedule, than the other top Attackmen

Marginally. Not weak.
Not "weaker" to the extent that it explains his production gap.

Again, my hunch is that Shelly has the pole position for this weekend for Tewey.
It would be a travesty IMO for Kav to get it....and he's a heck of a player.

[The Orfling]

Not Tewaaraton Related but IL's national players of the year came out...
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... year/63487

Lt. Raymond J. Enners Outstanding Player of the Year: Ajax Zappitello, Maryland
Lt. Col. JI Turnbull Outstanding Attackman: Connor Shellenberger, Virginia
Lt. j.g. Donald MacLaughlin Jr. Outstanding Midfielder: Shane Knobloch, Rutgers,
William C. Schmeisser Defensive Player of the Year: Jake Piseno, Albany
Ensign C. Markland Kelly Jr. Outstanding Goalie, Liam Entenmann: Notre Dame

All very worthy winners — congratulations to all.

[Finster]

This is the first year I can recall when I couldn’t comfortably predict the winner.

I still think Shellenberger got jobbed last year, but I understand why the committee chose O’Neil.

In 2019, there were some expected homers rooting for their favorites, but Spencer imo was the hands down favorite.

This year though, I don’t know. Every time I’m sure it’ll be Shellenberger, either his team or he has an off day.

If I was on the committee, my choice would either be regular season Brandau, or tournament Shellenberger. I think this remains true even if Ajax neutralizes shellenberger tomorrow.

My gut tells me the committee rewards Shellenberger regardless. Hard to not reward him for his body of work over four (5?) years.

[coda]

This is the first year I can recall when I couldn’t comfortably predict the winner.

I still think Shellenberger got jobbed last year, but I understand why the committee chose O’Neil.

In 2019, there were some expected homers rooting for their favorites, but Spencer imo was the hands down favorite.

This year though, I don’t know. Every time I’m sure it’ll be Shellenberger, either his team or he has an off day.

If I was on the committee, my choice would either be regular season Brandau, or tournament Shellenberger. I think this remains true even if Ajax neutralizes shellenberger tomorrow.

My gut tells me the committee rewards Shellenberger regardless. Hard to not reward him for his body of work over four (5?) years.

Just 4 years playing. How crazy is it that he red shirted his 1st year at UVa? I know everyone wants to play immediately, but redshirting is such a huge advantage in developing players.

[The Orfling]

With how well Zappitello controlled Shellenberger today, my prediction is that the winner of the Tewey is now a 2-man race, and will be Pat Kav if he has 6 or more points in the championship game or Liam Entenmann if he has 10 or more saves. If both those things come to pass, maybe flip a coin, but I think this selection committee will be ripe to pick a goalie.

[norcalhop]

What if ND loses however? Maybe the Yalie wins after all.

[The Orfling]

What if ND loses however? Maybe the Yalie wins after all.

Ha! Given that MB was voted second team in the USILA All-Americans (not that I agreed with that; if you look at the crossover opponents, he did better than O’Neill against Albany, Denver, and Penn), and this is an award that specifically relies on postseason play as well as regular play, I’ve accepted that any chance he had disappeared when Yale could not find a way into the NCAA tournament.

I think either Pat Kavanaugh or Liam Entenmann would be a very worthy winner. And for that matter I would certainly be happy for Shelly if he gets that hardware — giant of the game and he had a terrific year, including his OT goal against Hopkins in the prior round.

[The Orfling]

With how well Zappitello controlled Shellenberger today, my prediction is that the winner of the Tewey is now a 2-man race, and will be Pat Kav if he has 6 or more points in the championship game or Liam Entenmann if he has 10 or more saves. If both those things come to pass, maybe flip a coin, but I think this selection committee will be ripe to pick a goalie.

Got to see if Finster can find a place that will give me some action on this particular bet.