Progressive Ideology

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You keep saying this Upstate vs Downstate stuff, but don't have any analysis to back it up.
You could be right, but come across as simply having bought into victimhood being sold by politicians.

[MDlaxfan76]

Cradle, I am going to defend you on this one. You brought up Monica, because she was in the news YESTERDAY. Not old news. You didn't even mention ol' what's her name.

I will continue to eat spinach dip, but it will never be the same. icon_puke Like cigars.

I would agree that the timing of mention of Monica is due to her 3 part series coming up.
BTW, from what has been shared so far, it is far from complimentary to Bill.
(It is interesting that you guys already are paying such close attention).

But what the heck does it have to do with "Progressive Ideology"? Really, what's the point?

Unless, cradle and frmanfan, you want to say that the #METOO movement is just as tough on Dem pols as GOP pols, you seem to be all giddy about making fun of the young intern who thought she was in love with the President.

If you actually want to have a serious discussion of whether 'being in love' is consensual or not, and shouldn't therefore be considered a METOO sort of thing, I guess ok.

Where I come out on that is that whenever there is such a huge disparity of power and age, "consensual" is not the same as we would normally consider it. Add to that the cheating on one's spouse, and the sheer dishonesty of the cover-up, and it's certainly in the bucket of a cad taking advantage of his position of power.

I'd put Trump and McDougal in much the same bucket, though with only wealth and celebrity being his 'power'. She thought she was in love with him, too, but what a slime cheating on his wife right after his youngest was born. And trying to buy her silence? Doing so related to the election impact might well be criminal, not just slimy.

You guys are perpetually trying to say but "what about?" as if it excuses any of these slimes, but of course the one you want to excuse is Trump.
It's pretty clear that you don't think this lack of character on Trump's part is actually important...so why else the fascination with Clintons other than to give cover for Trump?

If I'm mistaken in my assessment of your motivations, I'm sure you'll clarify.

You are way over thinking what I posted MD. My picking on the young intern was where she somehow missed the point during her rondevue with the guy in question where the spinach dip was spilled on her dress. Not to be to graphic but I have been around long enough on this earth to never ever spill spinach dip on a lady's dress. Maybe I am just more uncouth than most of you folks. I suppose it is best left at that. There is a whole little sensitivity and hurt feelings around here today...

"overthinking" does appear to be one of my many flaws.

Sure seems to me like gleefully making fun of the intern.

Also seems like the fascination with Bill's transgressions is just a form of 'whataboutism' to somehow excuse Trump and his.

I could well be wrong. Maybe it's just spinach.

[youthathletics]

Good lord afan, you make it sound like conservatives have no heart, empathy, and all they want to do is blow up $h1t....c'mon.

It's not that hard, youth. AF and others don't complain about the GOP per se, we complain when the GOP "blows up dump" when the Dems try to spend to improve the country (ACA, welfare, etc.) vilifying "big government/intrusion" - all in the name of pure, partisan power-grabbing, then, once the power-grabbing and vilification have WORKED, they turn around and do the very same kind of spending and crow about how great the country has become as a result of it.

So YEAH, the GOP has no heart, no empathy for spending WHEN THE DEMS DO IT. You want us all to "just be happy" that the country is doing well...and we have to point out: Why aren't you happy when the Dems do very similar things? ..

Reason to...."just be happy" bi-partisan feel good empathy driven legislation passed by guess who.....Trump. I may have to pull my stock option back on hard hats, since the sky is really not falling.

[dislaxxic]

Good comeback, youth...prison reform...

I'm talking about the goalpost way over there, the one under which A Fan and others rightly point out utter GOP hypocrisy on spending and fiscal issues...you know, the issues the GOP wants everyone to think makes them different.

..

[foreverlax]

Did I heard the word “bipartisan”? Did I hear — did I hear that word? (Laughter and applause.) That’s a nice word. Bipartisan agreement on prison reform legislation known as the FIRST STEP. And that’s what it is; it’s the first step. But it’s a very big first step.

Trump

Congrats....If they can actually pull of bi-partisan legislation.

Another dog and pony show by Trump.....where he has to thank everyone;

"Chuck Grassley — and my friend. Where’s Chuck? Chuck? Thank you, Chuck, very much.
And Bob Goodlatte. I saw Bob here. Thank you, Bob. Great job.
Senators Lindsey Graham, Mike Lee, Tim Scott, Rand Paul, and Doug Collins
I want to thank Jared Kushner for working so hard on the bill. Thank you, Jared. (Applause.) He worked very hard. He really did. He worked very hard. He feels very deeply about it."

Great chance to actually have a D at the circus, for the bi-part optics.....nope.

[dislaxxic]

You could be right, but come across as simply having bought into victimhood being sold by politicians.

WHAT!?!?! A rock-ribbed "real, old school Democrat" would never, repeat NEVER feel like a victim. Just un-possible.

..

[youthathletics]

You should read this..."just be happy" Particularly 1,2 and 4.

[Brooklyn]

“bipartisan”

something right wingers know nothing about, unlike the more patriotic progressives:

[Brooklyn]

Progressive Ideology is well known for its integrity while right wing ideology is slanted, inclined to hate, to smear, to tell an infinitude of lies, and to slander. We have seen many examples of this over the years and one that stood out is the smear campaign against the Sanders:





Jane Sanders Fully Cleared in Burlington College Investigation


Says one commentator: "Jane Sanders would make a great first lady, because she is truly down to Earth, caring and thoughtful. My friends met her at Oak Flat Campground, where she listened and spoke with San Carlos Apache elders. She was respectful, humble, gracious, and sincere. "

[runrussellrun]

Good comeback, youth...prison reform...

I'm talking about the goalpost way over there, the one under which A Fan and others rightly point out utter GOP hypocrisy on spending and fiscal issues...you know, the issues the GOP wants everyone to think makes them different.

..

So.....if the GOP isn't really different....does that mean, that, ..........they are the same?

[runrussellrun]

“bipartisan”

something right wingers know nothing about, unlike the more patriotic progressives:

This is a lie. Plenty of legislation was passed from 2009 thru 2017.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes# ... rcent_plus

HR 3326- Killing machine budget. Passed the House 400-30, Senate 93-7

Budget is here......and does NOT include the US Coast Guard? Huh......What the heck.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3326/text

[a fan]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You missed my comment on that, old friend. I'd be over the moon livid if I were you. NO ONE was happier than I was that Denver "lost" the Amazon HQ game.

And OF COURSE your home State gave out perqs that far surpassed what Virginia did. You're living in a fantastically corrupt State when it comes to these line item tax handouts.

Sorry, mate. Truly sorry for you.

[runrussellrun]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You missed my comment on that, old friend. I'd be over the moon livid if I were you. NO ONE was happier than I was that Denver "lost" the Amazon HQ game.

And OF COURSE your home State gave out perqs that far surpassed what Virginia did. You're living in a fantastically corrupt State when it comes to these line item tax handouts.

Sorry, mate. Truly sorry for you.

But....you weren't sorry for him when the Telsa solar factory started to infest Buffalo? What's the status of that project. book1

[a fan]

You are good, really good, like politician good. Remind me to never play chess with you

Too many philosophy classes is the culprit here. Defend your position in front of a room full of people....and it was sink or swim. And lacrosse taught me that I hate to lose.

How can you complain about Trump all day long, our spending on military preparedness, then move on to the lack of infrastructure spending, then move onto free health care spending, then try and say conservatives are turning in to liberals. Good lord afan, you make it sound like conservatives have no heart, empathy, and all they want to do is blow up $h1t....c'mon.

Dislaxxic is spot on with this one. There's a context.

The context is: your party brought our country to a grinding halt while feigning "fiscal responsibility", remember? No spending bill, unless it's revenue neutral. And they played that game for years.

I've pointed this out dozens of times now: if $2.7 Trillion in new spending----while borrowing all of it----- is what you Republican voters wanted, why didn't you get off your duffs and demand that your Republican party do just that? You didn't. What did you do instead? You DEMANDED that Obama get spending under control, remember? So that's what he did. The sequester cut Federal spending for the first time since 1953. So you should have LOVED Obama, right?

Nope. What did you do instead? You railed against him for a "lackluster" economy, even though we were getting growth of ~2% GDP per year. And the military whined about being "hollowed out". As if Obama wanted that. Nope. That was you and your merry band of voters who apparently can't find a working calculator, nor recognize who is in charge of Federal spending (hint: the Republican Congress was in charge of that) asked for...

So it's simple: what do you supposed would have happened had McConnell insisted that Obama spend $2.7 Trillion on new spending, putting every dime on the credit card, while only $700 Billion of that spending is on the military? Take a WILD guess.

So my point is: if this is what you and your fellow dumb&ss ( ) Republican voters wanted, Obama would have been OVERJOYED to give it to you all the way back in 2010! But you didn't. You told him to cut spending. So we got a hollowed out overtasked military....things like Navy Ships running into each other, killing sailors....and the bottom 50% of Americans, Trump's forgotten voters, had a tough time because less borrowed Federal money was pumping through the economy.

You ASKED Obama to do that. Own your decision. Take the consequences like a man, and blame yourself for the outcome.

Peel this back....technology advances at an immeasurable pace we MUST spend as necessary to be "that country" the has our interest first, then helps those in the EU/ all over....that's what good people do (regardless of left or right) see we do have a heart. If we do not have a robust able military we are like them, vulnerable. You throw around that our kids are going to pay for this...you are not that naive, at no point in the recent history have our children suffered.

You don't think that your kids have suffered because of our fiscal profligacy?

My dad attended Syracuse by working summers in construction. Now what construction job can pay the 2018 $50K+ in tuition at SU? And that's just one example. Print this post out, and put it on your mirror. We're in for a rough ride in the coming decades as all the consumer, Federal, State, and corporate debt bills arrive.

Our safety should not ever be in question. I bet your EMR rating is concerning to you, remember...safety first-fun second.

Not one workplace accident in 19 full years of operation. I'm more proud of that than any award we've ever won for our spirits. So yep, you got me on this one!

All Trump is doing is what each of us do in our own homes. We provide a safe place for a family as best we can....I bet even most have an alarm system. Think about it this way, if half that caravan ended up in the local park next to your house, you'd be livid, and I bet you'd install a security system if you did not already have one.....safety first.

Oh, I'm on the record for turning that caravan away. But that doesn't change my position that, as I predicted, the Republicans wouldn't come even close to passing an immigration reform bill. They don't want to fix the problem----they want to keep their supporters angry, and voting for them. Republican voters didn't bother noticing that Republicans controlled both Houses and the White House, and could have passed any reasonable Reform bill with ease. They just had to get off their butts and do it.

What did we get instead? A bunch of excuses, and status quo. Just as I said they would. Congressional Republicans find it far more valuable to stoke fear, and blame "others' for not fixing the problem. And voters buy it hook, line, and sinker. And blame everyone but the Republican reps that they voted into office.

I think in the end, we all just like the dialogue, at least on here. Be good.

Without question! My favorite posters are the ones I "argue" with the most. I adore old salt and guys like tech37 or you yourself. What fun would this place be if we all agreed on everything!

And it's always fun, and surprising, finding the things that we do agree on.....

Have a great weekend!

[HooDat]

The context is: your party brought our country to a grinding halt while feigning "fiscal responsibility", remember? No spending bill, unless it's revenue neutral. And they played that game for years.

question ... did the country really grind to a halt - or did DC just scream louder and pretend it all came crashing down?

I tend to think the latter.

Now, don't get me wrong - I have very little time for a government that refuses to govern, but there were a whole lot of people who thought that if the government shut down for a few days it was possible that no one would notice. There were even some of those misguided souls who think they are doing it all on their own who thought it would be better.

I know I am making light of some very important services the gov provides, and not to defend the R's on this, but while DC may have ground to a halt - our country did not.

[dislaxxic]

Ocasio-Cortez’s ‘Green New Deal’ becomes flash point for Pelosi

"The Green New Deal resolution calls for a bevy of far-reaching liberal goals to decarbonize the economy within a decade by reshaping the electric power, agriculture and transportation sector, but it includes few details outlining how to get there. That is likely too ambitious even for many Democrats — and would stand zero chance of getting past Senate Republicans or President Donald Trump — but the concept has become an important rallying cry for the need to address climate change."

..

[foreverlax]

The context is: your party brought our country to a grinding halt while feigning "fiscal responsibility", remember? No spending bill, unless it's revenue neutral. And they played that game for years.

question ... did the country really grind to a halt - or did DC just scream louder and pretend it all came crashing down?

I tend to think the latter.

Now, don't get me wrong - I have very little time for a government that refuses to govern, but there were a whole lot of people who thought that if the government shut down for a few days it was possible that no one would notice. There were even some of those misguided souls who think they are doing it all on their own who thought it would be better.

I know I am making light of some very important services the gov provides, and not to defend the R's on this, but while DC may have ground to a halt - our country did not.

And that's why the GDP got held down to post-recovery historic lows. Right?

[youthathletics]

The context is: your party brought our country to a grinding halt while feigning "fiscal responsibility", remember? No spending bill, unless it's revenue neutral. And they played that game for years.

question ... did the country really grind to a halt - or did DC just scream louder and pretend it all came crashing down?

I tend to think the latter.

Now, don't get me wrong - I have very little time for a government that refuses to govern, but there were a whole lot of people who thought that if the government shut down for a few days it was possible that no one would notice. There were even some of those misguided souls who think they are doing it all on their own who thought it would be better.

I know I am making light of some very important services the gov provides, and not to defend the R's on this, but while DC may have ground to a halt - our country did not.

And that's why the GDP got held down to post-recovery historic lows. Right?

I bet if we do some searching, we can find some trends that show we did not grind to halt, so much so that many of those same posters remind us that Trump is taking credit for what the last regime already out in motion.

You can’t have it both ways, well, in DC I suppose you can.

[a fan]

The context is: your party brought our country to a grinding halt while feigning "fiscal responsibility", remember? No spending bill, unless it's revenue neutral. And they played that game for years.

question ... did the country really grind to a halt - or did DC just scream louder and pretend it all came crashing down?

What I meant is: for 6 years, Congress could not pass a budget or a spending bill. That is indeed a grinding halt. It had cascading effects when you're trying to manage an entire country. Yes, the country kept chugging along, but fat lot of good that does for, for example, all those sailors sitting on the ocean floor because we overtasked and underfunded our armed forces. And how's the VA doing? Awesome, right? Who cares, it's not me, should be my answer, I guess.

Now, don't get me wrong - I have very little time for a government that refuses to govern, but there were a whole lot of people who thought that if the government shut down for a few days it was possible that no one would notice. There were even some of those misguided souls who think they are doing it all on their own who thought it would be better.

That's because it wasn't a real shutdown. If you actually, for-realsy, shut down the entire Federal government....for starters? Planes wouldn't fly. Our ports would shut down. How many days of just those two shutdowns would it take for the damage to reach into the billions?

Have you ever wondered why mail is delivered six days a week? SS checks. Millions who can't wait until Monday for a check. Shut that down----both the cutting of checks, and the delivery of said checks----and watch the economic and human damage that would do.

So when Rush et. al. crow about how shutting down the Fed government would have no effect----they're full of it. I've listed a whopping three instances. I could list others for months on end. We've never had a REAL shutdown.

I know I am making light of some very important services the gov provides, and not to defend the R's on this, but while DC may have ground to a halt - our country did not.

Again, what I mean is: they stopped legislating. You know how happy you are about Trump's economy? You could have had that a decade ago. Instead, Congress chose to do nothing. No clue why you're not livid about that. Instead, you shrug your shoulders and say "boy things sure are better in 2018 than they were in 2010". Irony much?

All those fires in CA? Or naval ships running into other ships? Or bridges and dams that are falling apart? Is it THAT hard to understand that managing our Nation's assets requires steady governance, management, and funding?

[cradleandshoot]

Yeah a Fan, like it or not all of us here in NYS just signed on for Crony socialism with the wonderful deal that Amazon got in NYS. Can you tell me again how this is so good for those of us in Upstate NY? Sorry but I know you have this wonderful Shangri-La vision for what more socialism will do for our nation. Ain't seeing your vision right now, we are just seeing more of our money headed downstate in a very big way. But I guess those hicks like us in upstate NY just aren't seeing the bigger picture. That picture involves drop trau, bend over, grab your ankles... Andy wants to take a picture with you.

You missed my comment on that, old friend. I'd be over the moon livid if I were you. NO ONE was happier than I was that Denver "lost" the Amazon HQ game.

And OF COURSE your home State gave out perqs that far surpassed what Virginia did. You're living in a fantastically corrupt State when it comes to these line item tax handouts.

Sorry, mate. Truly sorry for you.

There are beginning to be whispers in NYS that Andy may have committed some possible crimes with this deal with Amazon. Oddly enough it is being roundly criticized by democrats and republicans in the state. NYS taxpayers will have to fork up 48000 dollars for each job created. Newly minted congresswoman Ocasio Cortez is concerned that the jobs wont go to the people living Queens and inquired if these will be union jobs. In the meantime Rochester and Buffalo this week each had long standing companies shut their doors... 1000 jobs lost. The plant in Buffalo is the New Era company that the Buffalo Bills Stadium is named after. Actually new era is not going oob, production is being sent out of the country. I am not whining about it because it is what it is. This is why so many people in upstate are heading elsewhere. It has become too damn expensive to live here on a fixed income. In the midst of this problem NYS taxpayers will be asked to dig even deeper one more time. It is great to have new jobs but Andy selling his soul to the devil to get them is not helping NYS as a whole. I hope the devil is not insulted by being compared to Bezos.