What goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
My point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
Your comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
The industry is rife with fraud and abuse….partly because virtually anyone can get into real estate investment. That’s why these real estate property investment shows are popular on “reality” TV. High end commercial is not immune from it but like anything, there are some good sponsors and some crooks.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
You are making my point. And it is not much different in politics, for some.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
Indisputably, "for some".youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:23 amYou are making my point. And it is not much different in politics, for some.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
Facts vs allegations. Proof vs innuendo. Wildly different so I don’t think this supports your point w respect to all this anti Biden stuff. And I don’t even care for Biden. Been as critical as many who deal with known and prove able facts. Have hit him for numerous issues.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:23 amYou are making my point. And it is not much different in politics, for some.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
Barriers to participant entry usually is a signal of bad actors getting in (not always). And yes most tri-state CRE folks who made big money have done shady things over the years. Not to mention guys like Don Peebles down in S FL.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:17 amThe industry is rife with fraud and abuse….partly because virtually anyone can get into real estate investment. That’s why these real estate property investment shows are popular on “reality” TV. High end commercial is not immune from it but like anything, there are some good sponsors and some crooks.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
Not just politics, Silicon Valley, healthcare, education and Ed tech, etc.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:33 amIndisputably, "for some".youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:23 amYou are making my point. And it is not much different in politics, for some.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
We had the most blatant, open such demonstration of such during the Trump Admin. Brazenly, defiantly.
Even with the Nixon Admins, the bags of cash were understood by those doing so that if they were known by the public there would be outrage, including among their own political base.
But during the Trump Admin there were no such compunctions. Open self dealing.
And the base applauded.
Of course, Trump also hid some of the realities of his personal economics, but he did so openly, defiantly...we knew he wouldn't release his taxes, for instance...
I don't see the public will on this, but we really should have a clean-up across the board of transparency and basic rules on self dealing by those in influence in government, including the WH, Congress, Cabinet, etc...blind trusts for those in higher office, serious penalties for self dealing for all.
Yes. I was going to mention the low barrier to entry.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:03 amBarriers to participant entry usually is a signal of bad actors getting in (not always). And yes most tri-state CRE folks who made big money have done shady things over the years. Not to mention guys like Don Peebles down in S FL.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:17 amThe industry is rife with fraud and abuse….partly because virtually anyone can get into real estate investment. That’s why these real estate property investment shows are popular on “reality” TV. High end commercial is not immune from it but like anything, there are some good sponsors and some crooks.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
Funny thing is anyone can get into real estate investment, little to no regulation, but then it’s the most leveraged asset with deposit insured, taxpayer backed bank money. The disconnect is crazy. It’s always the banks fault though.
I wasn't sure where you were going on this, but it's indeed a very good point. Some of the tech/vc titans make "Gordon Gekko" look like a piker...Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:07 amNot just politics, Silicon Valley, healthcare, education and Ed tech, etc.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:33 amIndisputably, "for some".youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:23 amYou are making my point. And it is not much different in politics, for some.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:04 amYour comment didn’t respond to mine or really support someone having that level of detail from very specific self selected sources and not actually anywhere close to it.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:42 amMy point, is when you follow the money it can often lead you to some form of borderline shenanigan'sFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:26 amWhat goes on on Wall Street that you can explain in specific detail to me?youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:16 amIs that b/c what is going with Hunter or Kushner is reminiscent of what goes on in Wall Street?Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:13 am This whole Hunter Biden and related stuff is flat out dumb. People who get balls deep in it, well….
Is there a reason or any value in deflecting and false equivalencies?
To roll off that stuff the way it’s done is a signal of something with respect to the person doing it. Ans not a signal of great things.
But if I’m following the money I should be looking at construction subcontractors probably.
Construction management exec accused in scheme that stole millions from developers
NEW YORK (WABC) -- Some recognizable buildings in New York were not put up entirely on the up and up, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
The Manhattan District Attorney's office and the New York City Department of Investigation charged 50 defendants in a kickback scheme to steal money from at least seven developers on construction projects, including 11 Stone Street(the FiDi Hotel), 12 East 48th Street (Hilton Club The Central at 5th New York), 101 West 28th Street (the Remy), and 189 Bowery (the citizenM New York Bowery Hotel).
The scheme was allegedly orchestrated by Robert Baselice, an executive at the Firm, a construction management company who is accused of manipulating the competitive bidding process for trade subcontractors. According to court records, Baselice steered more than $100,000,000 in trade subcontracts and change orders -- often at inflated prices -- to co-conspirator subcontractors in exchange for kickback payments.
The subcontractors paid more than $4,200,000 to Baselice and more than $2,800,000 to entities controlled by his associates, including Louis Astuto and Paul Noto. Astuto and Noto, in turn, distributed hundreds of thousands of dollars in criminal proceeds to entities owned by Frank Camuso and his family members, the indictment said.
Twenty-four individuals and 26 companies are named in the 83-count indictment that charges them with conspiracy. There are also varying charges of grand larceny, commercial bribing and bid rigging.
"When the building process is rigged, we all lose," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. "The market suffers from a lack of quality competition, developers are prevented from hiring the best companies at fair prices and, importantly, honest, law abiding companies are pushed out by those that broke the law."
As Baselice knew, the Firm's contracts with its real estate developer clients required the Firm to act in the clients' economic interests at all times, with full transparency, in an "open book" environment, and without any conflict of interest. The agreements specifically prohibited kickbacks, prosecutors said.
"In a systematic and ongoing manner, Baselice used his authority over the Firm's trade subcontractor bidding, buy-out and requisition processes to steal from the Firm's clients for his and his co-conspirators' benefit," court records said.
An attorney for Baselice, Michael Bachner, declined to comment.
The indictment quoted numerous messages in which Baselice appears to set a price for awarding subcontracts on various projects.
"On or about May 16, 2017, Kieran Keaveney and Robert Baselice had a WhatsApp text exchange during which Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance that his "number" for "foundation" on the 75 Kenmare Street project was '3.65,'" the indictment said.
"On or about May 16, 2017, in that same WhatsApp text exchange, Kieran Keaveney stated in sum and substance to Robert Baselice "I have u covered in foundation."
We had the most blatant, open such demonstration of such during the Trump Admin. Brazenly, defiantly.
Even with the Nixon Admins, the bags of cash were understood by those doing so that if they were known by the public there would be outrage, including among their own political base.
But during the Trump Admin there were no such compunctions. Open self dealing.
And the base applauded.
Of course, Trump also hid some of the realities of his personal economics, but he did so openly, defiantly...we knew he wouldn't release his taxes, for instance...
I don't see the public will on this, but we really should have a clean-up across the board of transparency and basic rules on self dealing by those in influence in government, including the WH, Congress, Cabinet, etc...blind trusts for those in higher office, serious penalties for self dealing for all.
The irony is the proselytizing by the tech industry writ large under the air cover of “Wall Street bad” to engage in worse form of theft, regulatory arbitrage and taking through information asymmetry is ridiculous. The zealotry is greater than anything I witnessed in the 90s or 2000s around Wall Street.
So the WaPo puts out a piece condemning Buzzfeed's game with Steel D...and that's not good enough for you?old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:06 pmYou still haven't answered my question -- did you hear about the pee tapes, Cohen's trip to Prague, or the Alfa Bank server before the election ?a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:27 pm You still haven't answered my question. Don't think I didn't notice------Giuliani kept the copies from getting vetted. Using your own rules of logic, Giuliani played a role in protecting Hunter by not allowing access to it in time to vet the thing. Result? Folks called bullsh(t, and rightfully so. We were left to take Giuliani's and the (snicker) NYPost's word for it. And you seriously wonder why the media was skeptical about their claims?
And you already saw how the media was out-of-the-box of the Steele Dossier.
So this mess, as usual, was created in large part by TeamTrump's bad decisions. You need to acknowledge their role. Please.
Rudy didn't have the hard drive that far in advance. The NY Post broke the story, but the rest of the msm did not follow up repeating what the NY Post had published, like they followed up on Buzzfeed's reporting when they published the Steele dossier. That's how the msm plays the game when they want to get their agenda driven story to their audience when they can't verify it & don't want to get their hands dirty.
The WSJ did publish the Bobolinski emails from the hard drive because they verified them as authentic from Bobolinski's end.
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:58 pmThat's a diversion. I didn't cite the WP. I cited MSNBC & Mother Jones.You did THIS time. Every other time? You hit the "Mainstream Media", and you do it intentionally. So if you want to claim a "cover up"? Be specific with PRECISE examples. Because after claiming a MSM conspiracy, and me showing you what, specifically, the WaPo did about the Steele Dossier (debunked it, and hit Buzzfeed for sh(t "journalism")....you have changed your tune, and moved the goalposts..a fan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:03 pmYour reaction tells me that you DO remember how the WaPo reacted to the Buzzfeed publication of the Steele Dossier.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:57 am Everything in the Steele Dossier was fed to the media & discussed on cable news shows & in publications like Mother Jones, months before Buzzfeed actually published it. I recall David Corn making the accusations on MSNBC. When did you first hear rumors about the "pee tapes" ?
Thats right; they called bullsh(t on Buzzfeed for recklessly publishing that without bothering to vet it....and pointed out that it could be "fan-fiction". In short, they did their job, and held the high ground.
Link to WaPo reaction to Buzzfeed releasing the Steele Dossier..https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... formation/
Stop dodging the question -- did you hear about the "pee tapes" during the campaign ?Sure did. Also heard the refutations that there was ZERO proof of it. So now what?
How about Cohen's trip to Prague ? (did you skip those pages on LP ?)I heard about that from YOU. Does that mean you're part of this conspiracy? Do you honestly not know how upside down your logic is with this stuff?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBViC-fEdm0a fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:46 amold salt wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:58 pmThat's a diversion. I didn't cite the WP. I cited MSNBC & Mother Jones.You did THIS time. Every other time? You hit the "Mainstream Media", and you do it intentionally. So if you want to claim a "cover up"? Be specific with PRECISE examples. Because after claiming a MSM conspiracy, and me showing you what, specifically, the WaPo did about the Steele Dossier (debunked it, and hit Buzzfeed for sh(t "journalism")....you have changed your tune, and moved the goalposts..a fan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:03 pmYour reaction tells me that you DO remember how the WaPo reacted to the Buzzfeed publication of the Steele Dossier.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:57 am Everything in the Steele Dossier was fed to the media & discussed on cable news shows & in publications like Mother Jones, months before Buzzfeed actually published it. I recall David Corn making the accusations on MSNBC. When did you first hear rumors about the "pee tapes" ?
Thats right; they called bullsh(t on Buzzfeed for recklessly publishing that without bothering to vet it....and pointed out that it could be "fan-fiction". In short, they did their job, and held the high ground.
Link to WaPo reaction to Buzzfeed releasing the Steele Dossier..https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... formation/
Stop dodging the question -- did you hear about the "pee tapes" during the campaign ?Sure did. Also heard the refutations that there was ZERO proof of it. So now what?
How about Cohen's trip to Prague ? (did you skip those pages on LP ?
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:41 amSo the WaPo puts out a piece condemning Buzzfeed's game with Steel D...and that's not good enough for you?old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:06 pmYou still haven't answered my question -- did you hear about the pee tapes, Cohen's trip to Prague, or the Alfa Bank server before the election ?a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:27 pm You still haven't answered my question. Don't think I didn't notice------Giuliani kept the copies from getting vetted. Using your own rules of logic, Giuliani played a role in protecting Hunter by not allowing access to it in time to vet the thing. Result? Folks called bullsh(t, and rightfully so. We were left to take Giuliani's and the (snicker) NYPost's word for it. And you seriously wonder why the media was skeptical about their claims?
And you already saw how the media was out-of-the-box of the Steele Dossier.
So this mess, as usual, was created in large part by TeamTrump's bad decisions. You need to acknowledge their role. Please.
Rudy didn't have the hard drive that far in advance. The NY Post broke the story, but the rest of the msm did not follow up repeating what the NY Post had published, like they followed up on Buzzfeed's reporting when they published the Steele dossier. That's how the msm plays the game when they want to get their agenda driven story to their audience when they can't verify it & don't want to get their hands dirty.
The WSJ did publish the Bobolinski emails from the hard drive because they verified them as authentic from Bobolinski's end.
And if they had said nothing.....do you honestly not understand you'd be complaining because they said nothing?
This is TinFoil logic.......no matter what the WaPo does, you're going to claim "cover up".
What could the WaPo have done that would satisfy you? Condemning the Buzzfeed publication, and telling readers that the Steele Dossier is a unconfirmed piece of fiction wasn't enough for you.
So what could they have done?
You keep diverting to the WP because you don't want to acknowledge what the rest of the msm did. I did not cite the WP on the Hunter laptop story. I may not have even been a subscriber then. I only renew when they offer me a deal. Same with the NYT & WSJ.Nope. That's not how this works.
You mean like the Hersh story about how the US blew up the pipe...and you INSISTED was good journalism, because you DEMANDED that Biden respond to these "unverified, unnamed sources". That was fine. But if the WaPo does it, it's bad, and they're going after Republicans.
There it is again.....whine.
...insisted it was good journalism ? This is what I posted.Left out the rest of it. Care to put all your comments about it together?
The WP may have scolded Buzzfeed on their reporting, but the msm didn't refute the substance of the Steele dossier until well after the election & the Mueller investigation was underway. It wasn't completely refuted until Durham charged Sussman & Danchenko.a fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:04 pmLeft out the rest of it. Care to put all your comments about it together?
And you STILL don't get the massive gap in logic....this might (might) (might) help.
I said The Steele Dossier is plausible & technically detailed & feasible. Much of the world will believe it unless we convincingly refute it because we are the most likely suspect
Get it now? Do you get that you have two standards? You cheer the Hersh, and go bananas at Steele.
BTW, EVERYONE is reporting Hersh's claims. I've lost track: are you FOR this, or against it? Oh, and which one is a MSM conspiracy to help Biden?
Every. Single. MSM. Outlet. did the same for the Steele Dossier. NO ONE reported it as true and verified. And the WaPo and others MOCKED the dossier.