2024

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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

Kismet wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:24 pm He still isn't over Tailhook which occurred in 1991 over 30 YEARS AGO. Defending a-hole behavior even that long after it occurred is never a good look. :P
You don't know sh!t about Tailhook. The careers of numerous fine Naval Officers, who did nothing wrong, were ruined, including the Admiral I worked for at the time. Here's the part about the now famous speech that Jim Webb gave before the Brigade of Midshipmen at the Naval Academy which drew a standing ovation. You fancy yourself a Naval history buff & presume to remotely pass judgement on who you feel is fit to be a Naval Officer. You'd do well to read & ponder Webb's entire speech.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... peech.html

This is the standing ovation speech delivered by James Webb on April 25, 1996 at the Naval Institute's 122nd Annual Meeting and Sixth Annapolis Seminar. Webb was Navy Secretary in the Reagan Administration and resigned over the issue of fleet reductions. A graduate of the Naval Academy, Class of '68, Webb served with distinction as a Marine in Vietnam.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whenever a crisis erupts that threatens our country's security interests, most of us know the first question usually asked by the President's national security advisers: where are the carriers? And the answer is always the same. They are either on station or proceeding with all due speed into harrn's way. I was in Asia during the tensions that flared just before the Taiwanese elections. Whether the Administration used them property or not, the carriers were there, ready to strike, just as they have been in or near every other hot spot in the last 50 years.

To be more specific, the officers and sailors were there, showing once again why the carrier battle group is the most potent and formidable tactical assemblage in history. As always, the finest combat pilots in the world were in their ready rooms or on the catapults, prepared to do whatever it took to defend the national security interests of the United States. They have never failed our nation, not once. They are smart. They are tough, they are dedicated, they are loyal, they are truly the best we have.

So when the Tailhook investigation began, and certain political elements used the incident to bring discredit on naval aviation as a whole, and then on the Navy writ large, one is entitled to ask, on behalf of

these magnificent performers who have never failed their leaders, where were their leaders?

When the acting Secretary of the Navy, who had never spent a day in uniform, called a press conference and announced that the antics of one group of aviators at Tailhook was an indication that the Navy as a whole had cultural problems-cultural, as in ethos, as in the overall body of traits that constitutes an institution's history and traditions--how could the CNO stand next to him and fail to defend the way of life he had spent a career helping to shape?

When Paula Coughlin's commanding officer, who had previously received dual honors as the Navy's outstanding fighter pilot and as commander of its outstanding fighter squadron, was relieved of his command based on a letter she wrote, without being given so much as five minutes to explain his own actions in her case to the admiral who summarily dismissed him, who risked his career by taking Jack Snyder's side?

When one of the finest candidates for Commander in Chief of the Pacific in recent times, a man who flew more than 500 combat missions in Vietnam and then in the Gulf War commanded the largest naval armada since World War II, is ordered into early retirement by the Chief of Naval Operations because one Senator asked on behalf of a constituent why Stan Arthur as Vice Chief of Naval Operations had simply approved a report upholding a decision to wash out a female officer from flight school, who expressed their outrage? Who fought this? Who condemned it?

When a whole generation of officers is asked to accept the flawed wisdom of a permanent stigma and the destruction of the careers of some of the finest aviators in the Navy based on hearsay, unsubstantiated allegations, in some cases after a full repudiation of anonymous charges that resemble the worst elements of McCarthyism, in effect, turning over the time-honored, even sacred, promotional process which lies at the very core of military leadership to a group of Senate staffers, what admiral has had the courage to risk his own career by putting his stars on the table and defending the integrity of the process and of his people?

It should surprise no one that this type of conduct has the result of killing morale down the chain of command and building up resentment, not only against the leadership but also against politically protected sub-groups. Top leaders who seek to minimize or reverse problems in this way simply cause them to become more severe, even among those who otherwise might support the policies.

One wonders whether these admirals really believe that political staffers in the Senate possess more wisdom and judgment than their own officers on matters relating to discipline and qualifications for promotion. If they do, they should resign immediately. If they don't, then they should fight back, not with a memo here and there but by being willing to bet their careers on the soundness of the institution that gave them a career in the first place. Or is there an insinuation here, that their own careers are more important than the dozens that are being ruined, and the thousands that are either deciding to become civilians or are waiting in the balance to see whether leadership can survive in the U.S. Navy?

I was recently shown a very disturbing statistic. Last year, 53% of the post-command commanders in naval aviation left the Navy rather than continue their careers. In no other year, in peace and war, has that number reached even 25%. These were the cream, the very future of the Navy, officers who had performed for two decades in a manner that marked them as potential admirals. They took their commands, they saw how the Navy's being led, and they walked. And who is willing to accept responsibility?

The aftermath of Tailhook was never about inappropriate conduct so much as it was about the lack of wisdom among the Navy's top leadership. Tailhook should have been a three- or maybe a five-day story. Those who were to blame for outrageous conduct should have been disciplined, and those who were not to blame should have been vigorouslydefended, along with the culture and the mores of the naval service. Instead, we are now at four years and counting, and its casualty list reads like a Who's Who of naval aviation.

These kinds of problems are fixable. It's not difficult to identify them, which is one reason morale has sunk in the fleet. What is difficult is finding people who will insist that they be fixed.
Last edited by old salt on Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

ggait wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:51 pm Minn National Guard specifically says Walz was promoted to the rank in 2004.

And that he served in the rank.

And that that was his rank when he retired.

Their word is good enough for me.

No one ever said shirt about E whatever. No one ever said shirt about how big his pension benefit was. No one other than Maga trolls like you cares.

What the heck is wrong with you?
You are wrong. It does not specifically say he was "promoted". He was not. He was selected for advancement but never promoted.

The press release says he "attained the rank" based on his temporary assignment to a Command Sergeant Major position. Had he been promoted to the rank, he would have been paid as an E-9. For whatever reason, he did not follow through. When he retired, he was no longer filling an E-9 Command Sergeant Major position. He reverted to his actual rank of E-8 Master Sergeant.

You're using the same lawyerly weasel words that landed Walz in this jam.
Actual enlisted ranks are indicated by E-1 thru E-9. That might not matter to you but it is the basis of our enlisted military rank structure.

It would not have been difficult for Walz to accurately describe his service in a way that could not be misconstrued & to make corrections if it was.
He BS'd his way into this mess. I agree with the former combat vet Congressman from MI -- it was not stolen valor, but it was shady.
ggait
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Re: 2024

Post by ggait »

Walz "attained" that rank. He served in that rank. He was in that rank when he retired.

What the heck is wrong with you loser?
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

ggait wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:00 am Walz "attained" that rank. He served in that rank. He was in that rank when he retired.

What the heck is wrong with you loser?
He was not "in that rank". He was in that job. He was in a position that could be filled by an E-9 or an E-8 eligible for promotion.
He was never promoted to E-9
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:05 am
ggait wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:00 am Walz "attained" that rank. He served in that rank. He was in that rank when he retired.

What the heck is wrong with you loser?
He was not "in that rank". He was in that job. He was in a position that could be filled by an E-9 or an E-8 eligible for promotion.
He was never promoted to E-9
You like having your hand in another man’s pocket.
“I wish you would!”
ggait
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Re: 2024

Post by ggait »

He was not "in that rank". He was in that job. He was in a position that could be filled by an E-9 or an E-8 eligible for promotion.
He was never promoted to E-9
Lt. Col. Augé officially says you are full of shirt.

He attained the rank. He served in that role. GFY loser.

“Walz attained the rank of command sergeant major and served in that role but retired as a master sergeant in 2005 for benefit purposes due to not completing additional coursework,” according to the statement from Army public affairs officer Lt. Col. Kristen Augé.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
DMac
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Re: 2024

Post by DMac »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:05 am
ggait wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:00 am Walz "attained" that rank. He served in that rank. He was in that rank when he retired.

What the heck is wrong with you loser?
He was not "in that rank". He was in that job. He was in a position that could be filled by an E-9 or an E-8 eligible for promotion.
He was never promoted to E-9
This is what Lieutenant Colonel Kolb, who took over Walz's unit after the governor resigned in 2005 says.
"I cannot say the same of his service sitting, frocked, in the CSM [command sergeant major] chair. He did not earn the rank or successfully complete any assignment as an E9 [the highest rank for non-commissioned officers]. It is an affront to the Non-commissioned Officer Corps that he continues to glom onto the title.
You told us earlier that you were frocked to several different ranks. When you were did you wear the next level metal and were you addressed as such? You bet your asz you did and were, and you can bet your asz Walz wore the stripes and was addressed as such too.
You can also bet your asz that Kolb is a Trump loving R as he goes on to say about Behrends (Walz's replacement),
He earned the privilege of being called Command Sergeant Major. Like a great leader he ran toward and not away from the guns."
Kolb is a tough guy douchebag who goes on to tell of Walz's cowardice and abandonment for retiring.
What wonderful comrades Walz served with.
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Kismet
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Re: 2024

Post by Kismet »

This country is in a LOT of trouble if we have military officers who served trashing their fellow soldiers YEARS after the fact. Not the first time either. :oops:
Seacoaster(1)
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Re: 2024

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

“Be in their flowing cups freshly remember’d.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember’d;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother;”

Unless he is nominated for high office by a political party with which I disagree.

You are an odious, disloyal ice of sh@t.

And your Tailhook narrative discloses at least some clues as to why you became an unforgiving, unforgivable charlatan.

Postscript: and all of this, in the toafying servile service of this POS:

https://www.npr.org/2024/08/11/nx-s1-50 ... conference
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Kismet
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Re: 2024

Post by Kismet »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:34 am “Be in their flowing cups freshly remember’d.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember’d;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother;”

Unless he is nominated for high office by a political party with which I disagree.

You are an odious, disloyal ice of sh@t.

And your Tailhook narrative discloses at least some clues as to why you became an unforgiving, unforgivable charlatan.

Postscript: and all of this, in the toafying servile service of this POS:

https://www.npr.org/2024/08/11/nx-s1-50 ... conference
Old Saltine is obviously not in the same class as King Henry V. Good thing he wasn't at Agincourt either. ;)
I suppose I'm not qualified to weigh in on other military history either. Funny that Salty's hero VDH never served a MINUTE in the military but he's good to go. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Come to think of it - I made no comments about Tailhook other than to reference when it occurred and Salty's reference to it. Typical for him to go off on what he thinks others may be thinking. He sucks at that, too.
DMac
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Re: 2024

Post by DMac »

Kismet wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:42 am This country is in a LOT of trouble if we have military officers who served trashing their fellow soldiers YEARS after the fact. Not the first time either. :oops:
I despise these kind of tough talking, self-aggrandizing phony phukks.
" Like a great leader he ran toward and not away from the guns."
If he (Beherens) was so anxious to run toward the guns, why didn't
he go active duty and volunteer to go rather than finding himself
in a position of having to go as per orders? I must be a real super
hero tough guy in Kolb's eyes as I did volunteer to "run toward the
guns" (incredible glorification, no?). I can give it to you verbatim
today, "Respectfully request river boat patrol duty in the Republic
of South Vietnam." Request granted, next stop, SERE school. You
guys never knew what a tough guy, super hero leader I am but Kolb
does.
GEEZUZ H!!!!!
kramerica.inc
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Re: 2024

Post by kramerica.inc »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:11 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2024 4:34 pm
ggait wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2024 2:52 pm No you didn't answer it. Are you still maintaining that Walz "fudged" a teeny bit? The Guard does not say anything about fudging. They say he served in that rank.

Seems to me that you are bull shirting and denigrating the service of another veteran.

So again.

Did Walz serve in that office or not?

Yes or no.

If you really are a vet, I'd think this should be pretty simple for you. UCMJ makes lying an offense, right?
I don't know, are you actually a lawyer or are you just pretending? You most certainly don't have the demeanor of a lawyer. What personal injury firm do you work for? I'm guessing your specialty is slip and fall give ggait a call. 8-)
Want a good lawyer? Find one honest in their motivations. See Atlanta legal system below/

We have you covered here in Bmore too.

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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

DMac wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:20 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:05 am
ggait wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:00 am Walz "attained" that rank. He served in that rank. He was in that rank when he retired.

What the heck is wrong with you loser?
He was not "in that rank". He was in that job. He was in a position that could be filled by an E-9 or an E-8 eligible for promotion.
He was never promoted to E-9
This is what Lieutenant Colonel Kolb, who took over Walz's unit after the governor resigned in 2005 says.
"I cannot say the same of his service sitting, frocked, in the CSM [command sergeant major] chair. He did not earn the rank or successfully complete any assignment as an E9 [the highest rank for non-commissioned officers]. It is an affront to the Non-commissioned Officer Corps that he continues to glom onto the title.
You told us earlier that you were frocked to several different ranks. When you were did you wear the next level metal and were you addressed as such? You bet your asz you did and were, and you can bet your asz Walz wore the stripes and was addressed as such too.
You can also bet your asz that Kolb is a Trump loving R as he goes on to say about Behrends (Walz's replacement),
He earned the privilege of being called Command Sergeant Major. Like a great leader he ran toward and not away from the guns."
Kolb is a tough guy douchebag who goes on to tell of Walz's cowardice and abandonment for retiring.
What wonderful comrades Walz served with.
Thanks for finding that DMac, That clears up my question about whether the Army NG policy on frocking was the same as the Navy's. Apparently it was the same.

Yes, when I was frocked, I wore the uniform of, & was addressed as, the next higher rank, ...for a few months, at most, until a slot opened at the bottom of the Navy"s lineal (seniority) list of officers holding the higher rank. Then I was officially promoted, paid at the Increased rate for the higher grade, & assigned a date of rank which established my relative seniority within grade. As with enlisted ranks, there were minimum time-in-grade requirements for advancement to the next higher pay grade. Time served while frocked did not count as time-in-grade for eligibility to the next higher rank.

Early in my career, DoN policy was -- to be frocked, we had to be serving in a billet rated for the higher rank. If not serving in such a billet, we could not be frocked. In that case, we could not be addressed as, & wear the higher uniform rank of the higher grade until a spot opened at the bottom of the lineal list for the higher rank.

While frocked, when asked our rank, the correct response was "frocked LT, LCDR, CDR", until officially promoted & paid at the pay rate for the higher rank.

When I was an O-2/LTjg selected for promotion to O-3/LT, then DoN policy was still -- we could not be frocked to the higher rank unless serving in a billet rated for the higher rank. Most Junior Officer billets were rated for 2 adjacent ranks, so we were almost all immediately frocked to LT as soon as the selection board results were approved & signed.

When I was an O-3/ LT, selected for promotion to O-4/LDCR, I was soon thereafter assigned to a Department Head billet rated for an O-4, which then allowed me to be frocked & to be addressed as, & wear the uniform of a LCDR. ...yet I was still expected to pay for a "wetting down" party before getting paid at the higher pay rate. Fortunately, thee were several LCDR selectees in our squadron to share the expense.

By the time I was selected for promotion to O-5/CDR, the DoN policy had changed so that we could immediately be frocked to CDR as soon as the promotion list was published, regardless of what billet we were filling. We would remain frocked at the lower pay grade until a spot opened up for at the bottom of the O-5 list, based on our individual seniority (know as our lineal number - which determined our seniority within grade).

As with Walz, if we retired while still frocked, our retirement pay & benefits would have been based on the lower "unfrocked" rank.
I don't know what the protocol or regulation was regarding how we would be addressed. or what uniform rank we would wear when allowed to wear the uniform again for ceremonial purposes, had we retired while still frocked. I don't know anyone, or know of anyone other than Walz, who retired while still frocked.

So apparently, had Walz completed his CSM Academy requirements, he could then have been promoted to E-9.
Had he done so, I believe he would have incurred an additional 3 years of obligated service, which would have prevented his retirement before the deployment. Being frocked allowed him to get out in time to be elected to Congress & to rightfully claim that he had served as a Command Sergeant Major.

Again -- I express no disrespect for Walz's service & I share everyone's admiration for your father & greatly respect his service.
...& yours as well, Shipmate. It's obvious why the term Frocked was the then F-word on payday.
kramerica.inc
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Re: 2024

Post by kramerica.inc »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:31 am
DMac wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:20 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:05 am
ggait wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:00 am Walz "attained" that rank. He served in that rank. He was in that rank when he retired.

What the heck is wrong with you loser?
He was not "in that rank". He was in that job. He was in a position that could be filled by an E-9 or an E-8 eligible for promotion.
He was never promoted to E-9
This is what Lieutenant Colonel Kolb, who took over Walz's unit after the governor resigned in 2005 says.
"I cannot say the same of his service sitting, frocked, in the CSM [command sergeant major] chair. He did not earn the rank or successfully complete any assignment as an E9 [the highest rank for non-commissioned officers]. It is an affront to the Non-commissioned Officer Corps that he continues to glom onto the title.
You told us earlier that you were frocked to several different ranks. When you were did you wear the next level metal and were you addressed as such? You bet your asz you did and were, and you can bet your asz Walz wore the stripes and was addressed as such too.
You can also bet your asz that Kolb is a Trump loving R as he goes on to say about Behrends (Walz's replacement),
He earned the privilege of being called Command Sergeant Major. Like a great leader he ran toward and not away from the guns."
Kolb is a tough guy douchebag who goes on to tell of Walz's cowardice and abandonment for retiring.
What wonderful comrades Walz served with.
Thanks for finding that DMac, That clears up my question about whether the Army NG policy on frocking was the same as the Navy's. Apparently it was the same.

Yes, when I was frocked, I wore the uniform of, & was addressed as, the next higher rank, ...for a few months, at most, until a slot opened at the bottom of the Navy"s lineal (seniority) list of officers holding the higher rank. Then I was officially promoted, paid at the Increased rate for the higher grade, & assigned a date of rank which established my relative seniority within grade. As with enlisted ranks, there were minimum time-in-grade requirements for advancement to the next higher pay grade. Time served while frocked did not count as time-in-grade for eligibility to the next higher rank.

Early in my career, DoN policy was -- to be frocked, we had to be serving in a billet rated for the higher rank. If not serving in such a billet, we could not be frocked. In that case, we could not be addressed as, & wear the higher uniform rank of the higher grade until a spot opened at the bottom of the lineal list for the higher rank.

While frocked, when asked our rank, the correct response was "frocked LT, LCDR, CDR", until officially promoted & paid at the pay rate for the higher rank.

When I was an O-2/LTjg selected for promotion to O-3/LT, then DoN policy was still -- we could not be frocked to the higher rank unless serving in a billet rated for the higher rank. Most Junior Officer billets were rated for 2 adjacent ranks, so we were almost all immediately frocked to LT as soon as the selection board results were approved & signed.

When I was an O-3/ LT, selected for promotion to O-4/LDCR, I was soon thereafter assigned to a Department Head billet rated for an O-4, which then allowed me to be frocked & to be addressed as, & wear the uniform of a LCDR. ...yet I was still expected to pay for a "wetting down" party before getting paid at the higher pay rate. Fortunately, thee were several LCDR selectees in our squadron to share the expense.

By the time I was selected for promotion to O-5/CDR, the DoN policy had changed so that we could immediately be frocked to CDR as soon as the promotion list was published, regardless of what billet we were filling. We would remain frocked at the lower pay grade until a spot opened up for at the bottom of the O-5 list, based on our individual seniority (know as our lineal number - which determined our seniority within grade).

As with Walz, if we retired while still frocked, our retirement pay & benefits would have been based on the lower "unfrocked" rank.
I don't know what the protocol or regulation was regarding how we would be addressed. or what uniform rank we would wear when allowed to wear the uniform again for ceremonial purposes, had we retired while still frocked. I don't know anyone, or know of anyone other than Walz, who retired while still frocked.

So apparently, had Walz completed his CSM Academy requirements, he could then have been promoted to E-9.
Had he done so, I believe he would have incurred an additional 3 years of obligated service, which would have prevented his retirement before the deployment. Being frocked allowed him to get out in time to be elected to Congress & to rightfully claim that he had served as a Command Sergeant Major.

Again -- I express no disrespect for Walz's service & I share everyone's admiration for your father & greatly respect his service.
...& yours as well, Shipmate. It's obvious why the term Frocked was the then F-word on payday.
What was the point of frocking? Assume it was like corporate culture? The benefits were different for the unit and soldier?
Benefit for the unit is filling a higher role for cheap until the real promotion is available? The soldier is the heir apparent and gets a foot in the door for promotion?
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:46 am What was the point of frocking? Assume it was like corporate culture? The benefits were different for the unit and soldier?
Benefit for the unit is filling a higher role for cheap until the real promotion is available? The soldier is the heir apparent and gets a foot in the door for promotion?
Yep. It was good for the morale of the frockee. A recognition. It was a way to promote good performers earlier to positions of greater responsibility, enhancing their future promotions & future assignments to more career enhancing billets in more career enhancing units.
It was a way for a CO to identify & break out his "front runners" by assigning them to more significant jobs, e.g, punching multiple Dept Head "tickets".
It also allows the Navy to man the Fleet with a lower payroll.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Always interesting to learn about different ways 'culture' is reinforced. The nits being picked are pretty darn esoteric. To the non military person, feels a bit like how private employees typically see some of the bureaucratic levels associated with government civil service. Very bureaucratic and regimented.

In the best sense, sounds like frocking is a way to recognize the prior service and accomplishments with an actual promotion. And promotion has much more meaning than simply pay rate, but rather also in authority. Recognition is a very big deal.

However, unlike most employment cultures, the announcement of the promotion via frocking is not an immediate such total upgrade in pay, but is intended to mean an upgrade in authority. Indeed, that authority begins immediately. But not pay and long term benefits.

Seems incredibly bureaucratic, but I'd speculate and ask those who have lived in this culture whether this is all part of the creation and reinforcement of a rigid authority structure in which chain of command is repeatedly reinforced as paramount?

Again from the perspective of the private world, including particularly the entrepreneurial world that's been most of my life, this is a culture that seems alien and rigid, albeit undoubtedly has serious benefits operationally at times.

Does that sound correct to you guys who have lived it? This is part, whether small or large, of the creation and reinforcement of chain of command in order to efficiently ensure orders are followed to achieve maximal warfare discipline?

There's so much of the norms and requirements in the military that reinforce rank and chain of command, right? All about culture, right?
DMac
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Re: 2024

Post by DMac »

Salty is better suited to answer those questions, MDlax. I aint easy to bullschidt about this kind of stuff (I knew damn well Salty wore the metal after being frocked and knew damn well Walz wore the stripes) but he knows much more about all of this technical stuff than I do.

....and right back at you, Shipmate, thanks.
Last edited by DMac on Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

Ruh Roh ! ... the fit is hitting the shan. Walz is trying to make amends. I doubt that he'll be damaged as much as Kerry was.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... valor.html

Battalion commander of Tim Walz's former unit OBLITERATES Kamala's running mate over 'stolen valor'
-- The man who took over Walz's unit says he 'got out of the way for better' leaders
-- John Kolb also accuses Walz of misrepresenting his rank in the military
-- Walz and Kamala Harris have faced accusations related to his service

12 August 2024

The battalion commander who ran Tim Walz's former unit has slammed the vice presidential nominee over claims of 'stolen valor'.

Kamala Harris' running mate has already been forced to backtrack on claims of having 'carried' weapons of war in combat during his 24 years in the Army National Guard and faced claims of being a 'coward' from family members of soldiers.

Harris has also been put in the unenviable position of confronting claims that Walz misrepresented his rank when he retired from the National Guard.

Now Lieutenant Colonel John Kolb, the man who would take over Walz's unit after the governor quit in 2005, has obliterated the Democrat for claiming the rank of Command Sergeant Major and for retiring before deployment to Iraq.

Kolb wrote in a Facebook post that
Walz 'did not earn the rank' and added that 'it is an affront to the Noncommissioned Officer Corps that he continues to glom onto the title.'

'By all accounts and on the record, he was a competent Chief of Firing Battery/Gunnery Sergeant and First Sergeant. I cannot say the same of his service sitting, frocked, in the CSM [command sergeant major] chair. He did not earn the rank or successfully complete any assignment as an E9 [the highest rank for non-commissioned officers].

'It is an affront to the Noncommissioned Officer Corps that he continues to glom onto the title.

'I can sit in the cockpit of an airplane, it does not make me a pilot. Similarly, when the demands of service and leadership at the highest level got real, he chose another path.'
Walz retired from the Minnesota National Guard in May 2005 to pursue a political career. In August of that year, the Department of the Army issued a mobilization order for Walz’s unit. The unit mobilized in October before it deployed to Iraq in March 2006.

Kolb became lieutenant colonel, a rank senior to CSM, of the battalion in August of 2005. Walz's role as CSM went to Thomas Behrends upon his retirement, Kolb stated.

Indeed, Kolb began his post by laying out why he did 'not regret' Walz retiring early from the Minnesota National Guard because it allowed Behrends, a 'great leader', to succeed him as CSM.
I do not regret that Tim Walz retired early from the Minnesota Army National Guard, did not complete the Sergeants Major Academy, broke his enlistment contract or did not successfully complete any assignment as a Sergeant Major.
Unwittingly, he got out of the way for better leadership. Thomas Behrends was the right leader at the right time. He sacrificed to answer the call, leaving his family, business and farming-partner brother to train, lead and care for soldiers. He earned the privilege of being called Command Sergeant Major. 'Like a great leader he ran toward and not away from the guns.
Walz, Minnesota's governor, has already had to backtrack on claims of having 'carried' weapons of war during combat during his 24 years in the Army National Guard and faced claims of being a 'coward' from family members of soldiers

Kolb's not the only one criticizing Walz this weekend, as the media finally took a hard look at the governor's military service.
Minnesota National Guard Command Sergeant Major Doug Julin questioned the timeline of Walz's retirement in a CNN interview. He said that the VP nominee knew that their unit was likely to deploy and had several meeting 'including my boss, commander, and the command team' discussing it.
Julin also claimed that Walz had assured him that he would be deploying with his unit.
However, in June 2005, Walz got a superior to back his retirement without telling Julin, a break in protocol.
'Tim Walz knew the process and procedures, he went around me and above and beyond me… basically went in there to get somebody to back him… it was just a backdoor process,' Julin added.

Walz referenced his 24 years in the Army National Guard during a political event in 2018 while explaining his support for gun legislation like background checks and restrictions on high-powered firearms.
'We can make sure that those weapons of war that I carried in war is the only place where those weapons are at,' Walz said in the clip, which was filmed when he represented Minnesota in the House of Representatives.
The Harris campaign shared the footage Tuesday on social media in an attempt to illustrate the Minnesota governor's views on gun control.
The claim drew the ire of some top Republicans, including former President Donald Trump's running mate, Ohio Sen. JD Vance, who accused Walz of 'stolen valor.' Stolen valor is a federal crime carrying a penalty of up to a year in jail, referring specifically to military awards and trying to gain money or benefit from claiming them.

The Harris campaign is trying to tout Walz's efforts to help veterans as a politician
The Harris campaign now says that the Minnesota governor simply misspoke - and did not try to lie to anyone about his military service.
'Gov. Walz would never insult or undermine any American's service to this country - in fact, he thanks Sen. Vance for putting his life on the line for our country. It's the American way,' Lauren Hitt, a spokeswoman for the Harris-Walz campaign said in a statement Saturday.
'In making the case for why weapons of war should never be on our streets or in our classrooms, the governor misspoke.
'He did handle weapons of war and believes strongly that only members trained to carry those deadly weapons should have access to them, unlike Donald Trump and JD Vance, who prioritize the gun lobby over our children.'
But Trump campaign spokesman Steven Cheung questioned, 'Why won't Tim Walz address his lies himself? Why does he need to send out lowly spokespeople to clean up his own mess.'

Walz formally retired from the Minnesota National Guard in 2005, as he prepared to run for Congress.
During a political event in 2018, Walz suggested he served in war as he showed support for gun legislation like background checks and restrictions on high-powered firearms

Some Republicans now suggest he abandoned his team to pursue the campaign.
In fact, as he prepared for the Congressional run in 2005, Walz's campaign issued a statement saying he planned to run despite a possible mobilization of Minnesota National Guard soldiers to Iraq.

Walz has faced such attacks before, including in his re-election campaign in 2022 - when his Republican opponent questioned his decision to leave the service.
Walz's campaign responded with a letter signed by 50 veterans praising his leadership on veterans' issues in politics - a tactic the Harris campaign is now trying to reproduce.
The recent spotlight on Walz's military record is not new, as he previously faced 'stolen valor' allegations in his previous campaigns, which he denies
During a CNN interview last month - when anchor Jake Tapper said that Walz deployed to Afghanistan - Walz corrected him and said he served in Europe as the Iraq War was going on.
In a 2018 interview with Minnesota Public Radio, Walz also said of his military career: 'I know that there are certainly folks that did far more than I did.'
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:14 am Always interesting to learn about different ways 'culture' is reinforced. The nits being picked are pretty darn esoteric. To the non military person, feels a bit like how private employees typically see some of the bureaucratic levels associated with government civil service. Very bureaucratic and regimented.

In the best sense, sounds like frocking is a way to recognize the prior service and accomplishments with an actual promotion. And promotion has much more meaning than simply pay rate, but rather also in authority. Recognition is a very big deal.

However, unlike most employment cultures, the announcement of the promotion via frocking is not an immediate such total upgrade in pay, but is intended to mean an upgrade in authority. Indeed, that authority begins immediately. But not pay and long term benefits.

Seems incredibly bureaucratic, but I'd speculate and ask those who have lived in this culture whether this is all part of the creation and reinforcement of a rigid authority structure in which chain of command is repeatedly reinforced as paramount?

Again from the perspective of the private world, including particularly the entrepreneurial world that's been most of my life, this is a culture that seems alien and rigid, albeit undoubtedly has serious benefits operationally at times.

Does that sound correct to you guys who have lived it? This is part, whether small or large, of the creation and reinforcement of chain of command in order to efficiently ensure orders are followed to achieve maximal warfare discipline?

There's so much of the norms and requirements in the military that reinforce rank and chain of command, right? All about culture, right?
I concur. Accurate & insightful analysis (imho)
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://radaronline.com/p/battalion-com ... len-valor/

He didn’t “earn”? What does “earn” mean in this context? Did he lie? And if so, since when didn’t lying disqualify someone for Old Salt?
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