Trump's Russian Collusion

[a fan]

As I've repeatedly said -- I just want an accounting of what was done.
If our govt officials acted within their guidelines. If their "spying" was with adequate "predicate", they'll be ok.

You're doing it again.

You have to stop accusing me of building strawmen when in one post you write to disslaxxic "......the Deep State bad actors are being outed, it's time to attack the messenger. Sad. ...more bad news headed your way."

Here, you're implying that nefarious, illegal actions have happened. And it's coming to light, so watch for indictments to drop.

So I react to that, and say "we've been hearing about that for 3+ years, and no one has been indicted".

Then you backtrack and say "I just want an accounting of what was done".


I don't mind you going back and forth like this. What I mind is when you hit me for "building strawmen" when the real issue is that you change what your claims are, and I can't keep up with which one you believe is true.

Either take it easy on me because you understand why I might be confused.....or be consistent.

Please. Thanks.

[old salt]

"So now that your TDS collusion conspiracy has crumbled & the Deep State bad actors are being outed...."

Another favorite: fall back on the "Oh, you're all hysterical, TDS-riven crazies." How about we love the country that once had two parties who, for all of their many and predictable faults, believed that the rule of law, separation of powers, and system of checks and balances mattered. Now, criminal conduct is "irrelevant," and something to "get over." At least I know you aren't Howard Baker from the Grave.

If it was criminal conduct, Mueller would have called it out as such.

Those two parties have lost the confidence of the public.
That's how Trump could end up as President.

[old salt]

As I've repeatedly said -- I just want an accounting of what was done.
If our govt officials acted within their guidelines. If their "spying" was with adequate "predicate", they'll be ok.

You're doing it again.

You have to stop accusing me of building strawmen when in one post you write to disslaxxic "......the Deep State bad actors are being outed, it's time to attack the messenger. Sad. ...more bad news headed your way."

Here, you're implying that nefarious, illegal actions have happened. And it's coming to light, so watch for indictments to drop.
So I react to that, and say "we've been hearing about that for 3+ years, and no one has been indicted".
Then you backtrack and say "I just want an accounting of what was done".
Whoa ! There you go again with your strawman hype. Where did I predict indictments ? I'm just awaiting investigation reports & results from official reviews & inquiries.

I don't mind you going back and forth like this. What I mind is when you hit me for "building strawmen" when the real issue is that you change what your claims are, and I can't keep up with which one you believe is true.
Again. Show me where I predicted anyone would be indicted, let alone convicted. I suspect that everything done had cover from above, right up to the WH (recall Rice's "by the book" memo). I just want an accounting of how our intel & law enforcement agencies performed & were used.
Let the bosses make their case.

Either take it easy on me because you understand why I might be confused.....or be consistent.
I've been consistent. Your overreactions & exaggerations have not.

Please. Thanks.

[laxman3221]

Imagine claiming that President Trump was a Nazi Russian Spy for 2 years and then settling for "Trump wasn't very success full from 1985 to 1995."

What a win for Libs today

[MDlaxfan76]

Imagine claiming that President Trump was a Nazi Russian Spy for 2 years and then settling for "Trump wasn't very success full from 1985 to 1995."

What a win for Libs today

Imagine calling losing over a billion dollars in ten years "wasn't very success full"
And that was before the casinos all went bankrupt, and the US banks all cut him off for good.

I'm not a "Lib", and I stand by every accusation that Trump is an authoritarian wannabe, at a minimum bordering on fascist. Indeed, I'll go all the way and say he reads from the fascist playbook, adopts the language and strategies of fascists, and lends succor to white nationalism in all its ugliness. So, yeah, fascist. "Nazi" is a bit specific, but yeah, a lot lines up the same.

On Russian "spy", I think the more apt terminology remains "agent", whether witting or unwitting.

The Mueller report makes clear that the Trump Campaign was aware of, and desirous of, the Russian support and interference in the election. They welcomed it, they shared polling data, they trumpeted in favor of the interference. Then lied about it. Again and again and again. Denied that they'd had ANY contacts with Russians. Heck, denied again and again that the Russians had even interfered at all. All lies. Still won't confront Putin, won't tell him to back off.

So..."agent" still feels right to me, after Helsinki, after this week's call with Putin.

But nope, Mueller makes clear that he was unable to prove all elements of a criminal conspiracy between the Russians, beyond a reasonable doubt. But "collusion" is all over the place.

And why couldn't thy prove criminal conspiracy? Well, Mueller also makes clear that the investigation was met with all sorts of lies and obstruction. Was there actual full blown conspiracy and the investigation simply couldn't prove it? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe we'll learn later, one way or the other.

But now Trump doesn't want Mueller to talk to Congress...sure, he doesn't have anything to hide.

Again, I'm no "Lib".

[laxman3221]

Imagine calling losing over a billion dollars in ten years "wasn't very success full"
And that was before the casinos all went bankrupt, and the US banks all cut him off for good.

Welcome to 2016 news cycle. What's old is new again when you spent the last 2 years peddling coooollluuusssiion.


Jerry "umpalumpa" Naddler is the lefts new savior!

[wahoomurf]

Trump's base must be dancing in the streets.Those folks,many of whom voted for him because they were ignored by them there politician,are ecstatic that he:

1)Screwed the IRS and Congressional Libs out of a few shekels.The leader did it for US.
2)Set a wondrous precedent for all.If some pesky loser hits you with a subpoena,ignore it.Or use it for toilet paper.
3)Don't let cops,judges or prosecuting attorney pretend they can prevent or punish you for doing ANYTHING you want to do.
4)Always surround yourself with people that are as malleable as marshmallow fluff,left their moral compasses in their rear view mirrors and don't givva about any person other the ones that exist within Trump's pale.
5) Became the exemplar to your kids and grandkids that LYING IS GOOD;THE TRUTH IS FOR CHUMPS."Real Christians" understand that.J But the Jews,Catholics,them "other" BAPTISTS , Mullahs,Anglicans,Lutherans and other so many simps and wimps are either naive or stupid.

Winning a second term is going to be a piece of cake for this pillar of righteousness and virtue.

[old salt]

Imagine claiming that President Trump was a Nazi Russian Spy for 2 years and then settling for "Trump wasn't very success full from 1985 to 1995."

What a win for Libs today

Imagine calling losing over a billion dollars in ten years "wasn't very success full"
And that was before the casinos all went bankrupt, and the US banks all cut him off for good.
That was all reported on extensively during the campaign. After bankruptcies from his casinos & airline, he changed his business model, became a tv star & cashed in on his celebrity & his "brand", using opm.

I'm not a "Lib", and I stand by every accusation that Trump is an authoritarian wannabe, at a minimum bordering on fascist. Indeed, I'll go all the way and say he reads from the fascist playbook, adopts the language and strategies of fascists, and lends succor to white nationalism in all its ugliness. So, yeah, fascist. "Nazi" is a bit specific, but yeah, a lot lines up the same.

On Russian "spy", I think the more apt terminology remains "agent", whether witting or unwitting.

The Mueller report makes clear that the Trump Campaign was aware of, and desirous of, the Russian support and interference in the election. They welcomed it as opposed to seeking it out & purchasing it, as HRC/DNC did , they shared polling data, Mueller was not able to establish a link with what Manafort & Gates did with the rest of the campaign, despite full cooperation from Gates. Nor did he establish any proof that the polling data was used by the Russians. they trumpeted in favor of the interference. Then lied about it. Again and again and again. Denied that they'd had ANY contacts with Russians. Heck, denied again and again that the Russians had even interfered at all. All lies. Still won't confront Putin, won't tell him to back off.

So..."agent" still feels right to me, after Helsinki, after this week's call with Putin.
By that logic, HRC was a Ukrainian agent.

But nope, Mueller makes clear that he was unable to prove all elements of a criminal conspiracy between the Russians, beyond a reasonable doubt. But "collusion" is all over the place. Including by the HRC/DNC with Fusion GPS & the DNC's Chulupa - Ukrainian link.

And why couldn't thy prove criminal conspiracy? Well, Mueller also makes clear that the investigation was met with all sorts of lies and obstruction. Was there actual full blown conspiracy and the investigation simply couldn't prove it? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe we'll learn later, one way or the other.
Guilty until proven innocent. Can't prove a negative. Nothing will ever clear Trump in your mind.

But now Trump doesn't want Mueller to talk to Congress...sure, he doesn't have anything to hide.
The (D)'s in Congress just want to cherry pick & spin. They have 448 pages under Mueller's signature, which they were not required to receive.

Again, I'm no "Lib".
Neither are Max Boot, Bill Kristol, Nicolle Wallace or all the other bitter never-Trump (R)'s who don't know what ran over them.

[dislaxxic]

Little Lindsey Graham...2nd biggest weasel in Congress...tells the world all about "High Crimes and Misdemeanors":



What a scumbag.

..

[MDlaxfan76]

Imagine calling losing over a billion dollars in ten years "wasn't very success full"
And that was before the casinos all went bankrupt, and the US banks all cut him off for good.

Welcome to 2016 news cycle. What's old is new again when you spent the last 2 years peddling coooollluuusssiion.


Jerry "umpalumpa" Naddler is the lefts new savior!

[MDlaxfan76]

Imagine claiming that President Trump was a Nazi Russian Spy for 2 years and then settling for "Trump wasn't very success full from 1985 to 1995."

What a win for Libs today

Imagine calling losing over a billion dollars in ten years "wasn't very success full"
And that was before the casinos all went bankrupt, and the US banks all cut him off for good.
That was all reported on extensively during the campaign. After bankruptcies from his casinos & airline, he changed his business model, became a tv star & cashed in on his celebrity & his "brand", using opm.

The 'OPM' was largely the Russians...source? Don Jr in 2009.
So, he pretends he started with practically nothing ($1 million loan), but in reality well over $400 million in daddy's money, commits various tax fraud, loses over a billion dollars on all sorts of businesses, not including the casinos, and then peddles himself to the knuckleheads that he was a big success. And you buy it, even now. Let's see his tax returns.

I'm not a "Lib", and I stand by every accusation that Trump is an authoritarian wannabe, at a minimum bordering on fascist. Indeed, I'll go all the way and say he reads from the fascist playbook, adopts the language and strategies of fascists, and lends succor to white nationalism in all its ugliness. So, yeah, fascist. "Nazi" is a bit specific, but yeah, a lot lines up the same.

On Russian "spy", I think the more apt terminology remains "agent", whether witting or unwitting.

The Mueller report makes clear that the Trump Campaign was aware of, and desirous of, the Russian support and interference in the election. They welcomed it as opposed to seeking it out & purchasing it, as HRC/DNC did , they shared polling data, Mueller was not able to establish a link with what Manafort & Gates did with the rest of the campaign, despite full cooperation from Gates. Nor did he establish any proof that the polling data was used by the Russians. they trumpeted in favor of the interference. Then lied about it. Again and again and again. Denied that they'd had ANY contacts with Russians. Heck, denied again and again that the Russians had even interfered at all. All lies. Still won't confront Putin, won't tell him to back off.

Great response: Mueller didn't prove all elements of the conspiracy, beyond a reasonable doubt. Yup, we agree.
Then you do the typical distract with HRC.

So..."agent" still feels right to me, after Helsinki, after this week's call with Putin.
By that logic, HRC was a Ukrainian agent.

No, purchasing information isn't a foreign govt providing it for free, as kompromat. There was no Ukrainian effort to interfere in the US elections on behalf of Clinton.

But nope, Mueller makes clear that he was unable to prove all elements of a criminal conspiracy between the Russians, beyond a reasonable doubt. But "collusion" is all over the place. Including by the HRC/DNC with Fusion GPS & the DNC's Chulupa - Ukrainian link. Baloney distraction, you are such a Trumpist.

And why couldn't thy prove criminal conspiracy? Well, Mueller also makes clear that the investigation was met with all sorts of lies and obstruction. Was there actual full blown conspiracy and the investigation simply couldn't prove it? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe we'll learn later, one way or the other.
Guilty until proven innocent. Can't prove a negative. Nothing will ever clear Trump in your mind.
No, I'm entirely confident that Trump is dishonest, a cheat, a fraud, a con man.
I don't know whether he was a witting or unwitting agent of the Russians.

But now Trump doesn't want Mueller to talk to Congress...sure, he doesn't have anything to hide.
The (D)'s in Congress just want to cherry pick & spin. They have 448 pages under Mueller's signature, which they were not required to receive.
They want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Me too.

Again, I'm no "Lib".
Neither are Max Boot, Bill Kristol, Nicolle Wallace or all the other bitter never-Trump (R)'s who don't know what ran over them.

Ohh, we know what happened. Doesn't make it any less horrifying.

[CU88]

"So now that your TDS collusion conspiracy has crumbled & the Deep State bad actors are being outed...."

Another favorite: fall back on the "Oh, you're all hysterical, TDS-riven crazies." How about we love the country that once had two parties who, for all of their many and predictable faults, believed that the rule of law, separation of powers, and system of checks and balances mattered. Now, criminal conduct is "irrelevant," and something to "get over." At least I know you aren't Howard Baker from the Grave.

If it was criminal conduct, Mueller would have called it out as such.

And you know this as FACT?

Somehow you have missed the nuance of DOJ "policy" of NOT indicting a sitting president.

And since you have read the full unredacted Mueller Report, what can you state as FACT on the Obstruction matter?

[old salt]

"So now that your TDS collusion conspiracy has crumbled & the Deep State bad actors are being outed...."

Another favorite: fall back on the "Oh, you're all hysterical, TDS-riven crazies." How about we love the country that once had two parties who, for all of their many and predictable faults, believed that the rule of law, separation of powers, and system of checks and balances mattered. Now, criminal conduct is "irrelevant," and something to "get over." At least I know you aren't Howard Baker from the Grave.

If it was criminal conduct, Mueller would have called it out as such.

And you know this as FACT?

Somehow you have missed the nuance of DOJ "policy" of NOT indicting a sitting president.

And since you have read the full unredacted Mueller Report, what can you state as FACT on the Obstruction matter?

Like most of the country -- Vol 1 is all that matters to me.
Vol 2 is just a self-serving exposition of a political gotcha game, chronicling a baseless investigation & the entrapment schemes laid to justify it.

If an obstruction prosecution was warranted, Mueller should have said so & the House would have already started impeachment proceedings.
The (D)'s in Congress know that prosecution (via impeachment) for obstruction is a loser.

Mueller didn't deliver a kill shot. He didn't even have a round in the chamber.
This is all just a diversion from Mueller's verification that there was no Trump - Russia conspiracy.

[a fan]

All true.

New precedent set: if you're getting investigated by the Federal government, Mueller just told Americans that it's cool to fire the person investigating you.

Does this neat new rule apply to everyone? Or just the POTUS?

[CU88]

r hero and Liar in Chief just can't stop the lies. Unbelievable, and the r's stay silent.

https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1126530269945782272

Can any r on this thread give me all of the names of the famous "...17 or 18 very angry Democrats" and the proof behind them being as described?

Or tell me how his refusal to be questioned is being "transparent"?

Or how did Mueller become Special Counsel the day after he did NOT get the FBI job???

Why if the "...report is perfect, it is beautiful..." don't the r's want anyone to see the full unredacted report?

[Brooklyn]

Trump Invokes Executive Privilege, Demands Toothpaste Return To The Tube Forthwith
Trump's executive privilege argument is dumb.


https://abovethelaw.com/2019/05/trump-e ... t-is-dumb/


President Donald Trump invoked “executive privilege” to keep secret the un-redacted version of the Mueller report. Yes, “executive privilege” is a real and robust legal concept. Yes, constitutional scholars hotly debate the extent of executive privilege, and the limits of the power. NO, “executive privilege” cannot reasonably be applied to the current situation and the people trying to tell you otherwise need to go choke on a cracker.

Executive privilege isn’t in the Constitution. It is by convention and precedent that we have decided that some amount of executive privacy is required for the proper operation of government. And that makes sense. The President, in his (and unfortunately it’s still “his”) infinite wisdom, must be free to discuss and debate all possible solutions to a problem. Unpopular solutions. Even potentially illegal solutions ...

The point of executive privilege is to protect the secrecy of Presidential decision making. Like all the other legal privileges I can think of, the privilege is waived when that secrecy is voluntarily breached. You lose your attorney-client privilege when you talk about your fraudulent tax returns to your Treasury Secretary (just making that example for totally no reason) ... Privileges do not normally survive voluntary disclosure to third parties. Executive privilege is no different. The law, we keep saying, applies to everybody equally.

If Trump has an executive privilege to invoke — and it’s not even clear why allegedly obstructing justice ten different ways would be subject to “executive” privilege — then the time to assert it was before Trump allowed people to testify in the Mueller probe. It would have been challenged then and he would have probably lost then, but that was the time to do it. Re-invoking a privilege previously waived is simply not how privileges work.

more at link ...



Clearly, there is no basis for the ever transparent president's claim of ''executive privilege".

[old salt]

All true.

New precedent set: if you're getting investigated by the Federal government, Mueller just told Americans that it's cool to fire the person investigating you.

Does this neat new rule apply to everyone? Or just the POTUS?

Let's wait & see what Barr & IG Horowitz bring forward re. Comey's actions.

Had Comey quietly let Crossfire Hurricane run it's course (without leaks), & not threatened Trump with the dossier (enabling Buzzfeed to publish it), he might still be the FBI Director.

The more that comes out, the more Comey's firing looks justified. Under his leadership, the top tier of the FBI was thoroughly politicized, leaking like a sieve, & pursuing their own agenda.

[CU88]

This seems to be happening very fast for our court system. Is this normal?


https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/09/politics ... index.html

[RedFromMI]

This seems to be happening very fast for our court system. Is this normal?


https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/09/politics ... index.html

Some of the court proceedings back in the preparation for the (never happened because he resigned) Nixon impeachment went in just a few weeks... It was the tape release that essentially make enough Rs decide that the President was not worth fighting over any more and his resignation happened even faster...

[CU88]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 25c08ea1ff

How soon until he gets a Congressional subpoena?