WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:39 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:49 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:47 am
Sensible gun safety at work? Let's keep allowing those perpetrating criminal gun offenses to post bail, and head back out into society to magically become good citizens. Except when they don't, and they kill 8 people during a little murder with a criminally owned firearm spree:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/8- ... rcna135176
One year ago, after being identified as a suspect in a drive by shooting/road rage incident, police caught up with Romeo. Nance put up a struggle as they attempted to take him into custody. Police said officers found a loaded gun in the car.
He was charged with aggravated discharge of a weapon, aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, aggravated assault, reckless discharge of a firearm and obstructing a peace officer. Next steps for our legal system? Hey, let's let him out on bail. What could possibly go wrong? County jail records indicate he was freed after posting $10,000 of his $100,000 bail. Smfh.
Even better, Illinois' SAFE-T Act established cashless bail last September. More brilliant! It's an outrage he had to post a $10k bail in the first place! Future violent arrested folks perpetrating illegal firearm offenses will just...walk right out the door of the precinct after the inconvenience of an hour or two of processing.
Would all law abiding citizens who own and utilize guns legally kindly report to the nearest government facility to hand them in. You are the problem. You are unsafe to society! And the government has got the public safety thing covered.
Bail is about showing up for your court date not having anything to do with the future behavior. Whatever he did on bail has nothing to do with the reason bail exists in the first place. Innocent until proven guilty. Unless you belie the standard changes if a police officer levies a charge.
What a person does regarding a bail violation is very far removed from the topic of sensible gun safety” as well. This all seems off the mark except to lash out at a movement you don’t like.
I'll just have to respectfully disagree with you regarding bail of any sort for those arrested on serious weapons charges, where ample demonstrable evidence is available (as in this case) to suggest the accused "not getting bail" is in the best interest of public safety. If that's far removed from the topic of sensible gun safety in your mind, again, I'll need to respectfully disagree.
Yes, as a law abiding citizen it is my duty to "lash out" as you term it
at a movement that is seeking to curtail (or better yet) completely eliminate a right, and do so based on an increasingly slick and obfuscatory narrative buffet which misses the target by a country mile. Many here feel that this stance makes one some kind of 2A nutjob. Funny, for 240 years such a stance made someone an engaged member of a law-abiding citizenry who cared about the well being of their country, neighbors, friends, and family.
Your first paragraph mischaracterizes what I wrote. Specifically nowhere did I say anything to lead one to interpret or read “se) to suggest the accused "not getting bail" is in the best interest of public safety.”
And while gun safety overlaps with public safety they are not the same thing.
So….i don’t get your response.
Second paragraph. Well I happen to know emotional or angry quite well and…
Anyone can pick at Wikipedia so feel free as there’s no shortage of other primary source information to support this. It’s quite simple as I stated having once kicked the tires on this business along with a few others that are street level but wicked profitable.
Bail in the United States
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Language
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Bail in the United States refers to the practice of releasing suspects from custody before their hearing, on payment of bail, which is money or pledge of property to the court which may be refunded if suspects return to court for their trial. Bail practices in the United States vary from state to state.[1]
History
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Bail mechanisms were originally intended to allow someone charged with a crime to remain free until their trial (being presumed innocent) while ensuring that they would show up for it. A person's family or business acquaintances often had an interest in seeing them appear in court and would help to ensure that they did so. Some historians speculate that a shift towards the use of cash bail may have occurred with western expansion, as people became more transient and lacked connection with local family and community.[2]
In pre-independence USA, bail law was based on English law. Some of the colonies simply guaranteed their subjects the protections of that law. In 1776, after the Declaration of Independence, those states that had not already done so enacted their own versions of bail law.[3] For example, Section 9 of Virginia's 1776 Constitution originally stated, "excessive bail ought not to be required..." In 1785, Virginia added an additional protection to its constitution, "Those shall be let to bail who are apprehended for any crime not punishable in life or limb...But if a crime be punishable by life or limb, or if it be manslaughter and there be good cause to believe the party guilty thereof, he shall not be admitted to bail." Section 29 of the Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776 states that "Excessive bail shall not be exacted for bailable offences: And all fines shall be moderate."[4]
In 1789, the same year that the United States Bill of Rights was introduced, Congress passed the Judiciary Act of 1789. That law specified which types of crimes were bailable and set bounds on a judge's discretion in setting bail. The Act provided that all non-capital crimes are bailable and that in capital cases the decision to detain a suspect prior to trial was to be left to the judge:[5]
Upon all arrests in criminal cases, bail shall be admitted, except where punishment may be by death, in which cases it shall not be admitted but by the supreme or a circuit court, or by a justice of the supreme court, or a judge of a district court, who shall exercise their discretion therein.
The prohibition against excessive bail in the Eighth Amendment is derived from the Virginia Constitution.[6] That prohibition applies in federal criminal prosecutions but, as the Supreme Court has not extended that protection to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment, the Eighth Amendment protection does not apply to defendants charged in state courts.[7]
The creation of cash bail as a business is often dated to 1896, when San Francisco bartenders Peter P. McDonough and his brother Thomas McDonough began putting up bail money for patrons of their father's saloon.[8] Eventually offering a wide variety of "services" to those arrested, McDonough became a central figure in the underworld and police corruption.[9]
