COACHING CAROUSEL 2021

[laxjuris]

Millikan and Buczek remain to be seen. I think Millikan underperformed w Cornell’s roster personally.

Well in fairness to Milliman (not Millikan) Cornell was 5-0 and ranked #2 when 2020 was shut down.

[LaxPundit07]

The 2020 Big Red squad was primed for a deep run. Peter had them firing on all cylinders. Would love to have seen how far they made it if not for COVID.

[CU77]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

[tech37]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

You think that 1992 team wasn't as talented as the other final four teams? Weren't as well known...OK. Sorry, don't buy less talented.

[DocBarrister]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

hmmm.... 2 overtime games doesn't make it close? what would make it close?

[a fan]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

If Tierney is one of those "do less with more" coaches------would you care to explain why he keeps getting bounced in the 1st round of the NCAA's?

You can't. There's only one explanation. Which, again, is my point.

[a fan]

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Well, I disagree. Doubly so when you look at how Danowski did at Hofstra. And I don't think Breschi has pulled as much talent as Dano...particularly so on the D side of the field. You have a different opinion, and I respect that.

But with all the talent showing up at Duke, I have a hard time believing that Dano does more with less....Dano has had more than one 1st round exit. That doesn't happen if he's getting "more" out of his players....because by any measure, he's killing it on the recruiting trail at Duke.

And what happened this year? Maryland blew their doors off...and Dano how how much firepower on attack?

It's events like Duke getting blown out that tells me that coaching just isn't all that important.

I get, and respect, that you (and most posters, probably) disagree.

[jrn19]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

If Tierney is one of those "do less with more" coaches------would you care to explain why he keeps getting bounced in the 1st round of the NCAA's?

You can't. There's only one explanation. Which, again, is my point.

Because his offense isn’t as effective with the shot clock, a massive rules change that didn’t exist at all before the last 3 years

[DocBarrister]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

hmmm.... 2 overtime games doesn't make it close? what would make it close?

You seem to think winning close games, especially in OT, does not support greatness, but those close wins are arguably the greatest evidence of a great coach.

And the bottom line is … they were wins.

DocBarrister

[CU77]

Well, I disagree. Doubly so when you look at how Danowski did at Hofstra.

Danowski did extremely well at Hofstra, IMO (which is why he got the job at Duke!). His teams reached the NCAA quaterfinals four times, something his successor has not managed to do in the 14 years since Danowski left. His team was the #3 seed in 2006 (then lost in OT, 10-11, to a hot unseeded UMass team that would go on to beat #2 Maryland in the semis, 8-5, before losing the final to undefeated #1 UVa).

In terms of your "all top 20 coaches are interchangeable" claim, it matters that Hofstra was pretty often a top-20 team when Danowski coached them, but has not been able to keep that up after he left.

[wgdsr]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

hmmm.... 2 overtime games doesn't make it close? what would make it close?

You seem to think winning close games, especially in OT, does not support greatness, but those close wins are arguably the greatest evidence of a great coach.

And the bottom line is … they were wins.

DocBarrister

actually never said that. you said it wasn't close between coaches. but the margin was 2 ot wins between him and starsia.

and then there's desko, with 5 champs in a lot less time as a head coach. and 6 more in his time as an asst. (tierney got 2 in 3 years at jhu?). anyone that knows anything about su lacrosse then knows desko was a if not the driving force for those wins as well.

i was just wondering what would be close.

[a fan]

In terms of your "all top 20 coaches are interchangeable" claim, it matters that Hofstra was pretty often a top-20 team when Danowski coached them, but has not been able to keep that up after he left.

Yes, but why can't we chalk that up to Dano's recruiting prowess? I believe that Danowski was, and is, an excellent recruiter. When he left Hofstra? He took all his decades-old recruiting connections with him.

I mean: Doug Shanahan? Generational talent. Your going to win some games with him controlling the middle of the field, no?

Appreciate the discussion.

[a fan]

Because his offense isn’t as effective with the shot clock, a massive rules change that didn’t exist at all before the last 3 years

A few posts up, you told me that no one was claiming that Tierney can't coach. Told me I was concocting a straw man.

Now you've changed your mind, and you're back telling me that Tierney can't coach offense in the post shot clock era, and that's why he's dropping 1st round games. Like it's really hard to score with a shot clock, or something...and forgetting that DU had a first round exit in 2016, before the shot clock.

Is scoring up, or down across D1? But sure, Tierney just can't crack the shot clock.

Agree to disagree.

[DocBarrister]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

If Tierney is one of those "do less with more" coaches------would you care to explain why he keeps getting bounced in the 1st round of the NCAA's?

You can't. There's only one explanation. Which, again, is my point.

Thing is, Coach Tierney is still leading a team just about every year to the NCAA tournament. His closest contemporary is the great Dom Starsia (same age). Both won national championships in three different decades, but Tierney won three more titles and is still the head coach of a major lacrosse program. Starsia (bless his heart) is coaching high school lacrosse.

Other contemporaries? John Danowski has three titles, all in the last decade or so. Desko is five years younger than Tierney, has five titles (all in the previous decade), and is already retired. Pietramala is 15 years younger than Tierney, has five fewer titles, and wasn’t even coaching college lacrosse last season. Coach Corrigan became a head coach the same year as Tierney (1988), but has no national championships despite being at one of the top sports colleges in the country.

It’s also sobering to note that Tierney is just 11 years younger than the great Bill Simmons Jr., who retired 22 years ago. Tierney has one more national championship than Simmons (two more if you ask the NCAA) and is still going strong at Denver, which is hardly one of the traditional marquee powerhouses in college lacrosse. Princeton wasn’t exactly a powerhouse when Tierney took over … the Tigers hadn’t won a national championship in 39 years before Tierney won his first in 1992.

Name a contemporary of Tierney who has accomplished more with less.

Oh, and by the way … recruiting the best players is actually one of the hallmarks of a truly great coach. You can ask Nick Saban (and Bill Tierney) about that.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

hmmm.... 2 overtime games doesn't make it close? what would make it close?

You seem to think winning close games, especially in OT, does not support greatness, but those close wins are arguably the greatest evidence of a great coach.

And the bottom line is … they were wins.

DocBarrister

actually never said that. you said it wasn't close between coaches. but the margin was 2 ot wins between him and starsia.

and then there's desko, with 5 champs in a lot less time as a head coach. and 6 more in his time as an asst. (tierney got 2 in 3 years at jhu?). anyone that knows anything about su lacrosse then knows desko was a if not the driving force for those wins as well.

i was just wondering what would be close.

I admire both Starsia and Desko, but neither can compare with Tierney.

Longevity and continued success do count for something, and Tierney has outlasted them both.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

it's roy simmons. bill simmons writes blogs and does podcasts.

[wgdsr]

So tell me...which of these coaches isn't up to snuff, and isn't getting the best out of their players?

To make one comparison: IMO, Breschi is not as good at getting the best out of his players as Danowski. Over the past 10 years, Duke has been more successful overall than UNC, by a variety of measures. Switch Breschi and Danowski, and I think that reverses.

Another point: very few of the current top 20 coaches (and maybe none) could do what Tierney did: go to a total lax backwater (Princeton at the time), and, using players with notably less talent than much of the competition, win a national championship. (After that win, the talent level improved of course.)

Did it twice. After Princeton, took a rising but still second-tier Denver program and won a national championship in 2015.

Best coach of his era (which is still ongoing), and no one is really even close.

DocBarrister

hmmm.... 2 overtime games doesn't make it close? what would make it close?

You seem to think winning close games, especially in OT, does not support greatness, but those close wins are arguably the greatest evidence of a great coach.

And the bottom line is … they were wins.

DocBarrister

actually never said that. you said it wasn't close between coaches. but the margin was 2 ot wins between him and starsia.

and then there's desko, with 5 champs in a lot less time as a head coach. and 6 more in his time as an asst. (tierney got 2 in 3 years at jhu?). anyone that knows anything about su lacrosse then knows desko was a if not the driving force for those wins as well.

i was just wondering what would be close.

I admire both Starsia and Desko, but neither can compare with Tierney.

Longevity and continued success do count for something, and Tierney has outlasted them both.

DocBarrister

tierney has won one title in the last 20 years. sounds like you have your own criteria. we'll call it the doc criteria.

[DocBarrister]

it's roy simmons. bill simmons writes blogs and does podcasts.

Stand corrected.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

it's roy simmons. bill simmons writes blogs and does podcasts.

Stand corrected.

DocBarrister

no worries. i love bill simmons.