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Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:22 am
by DMac
GSP wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:46 am
Computers do not play the games, players and coaches do!
Actually, that's not true, coaches don't play the games (well, 'cept for Woody Hayes I guess) they just get too much of the credit or criticism for how their players perform on the field.
Rankings which take zero account of future weather, field conditions, sickness, minor injuries, scholastic loads, exams, fan attendance, which team of referees will work future games and the million other factors coursing through teenager's bodies and are therefore literally useless.
Boy, you're a really smart guy to have figured all of that out. Got some news for ya, human's rankings are literally useless too but it's just a part of sports that a lot of people like to discuss/play with/argue about, it's pretty harmless fun all in all. Seems to me as if there's a mighty big industry built around all of that.
Lastly, there is a clear and very significant intellectual conflict in having a website that both produces a computer generated ranking with (as in any computer environment, a garbage in-garbage out risk) and opinion pieces by writers affiliated with the website. Any human who's organization produces a computer generated evaluation or ranking will have a very human desire or tendency toward wanting their ranking to be justified. It is 100% normal for a non-celestial being to be subject to those forms of intellectual pressures. It cannot help by introduce confirmation bias into the opinion based articles it produces.
It is not a healthy situation to produce both.
Since we've deemed both human and computer generated rankings to be literally useless, none of that BS really matters, does it? Engineer/tech head minds just like to play with the numbers, it's their thing (pretty understandable actually) but I'm sure not going to get all worked up about what they come up with, suggest you do the same.
Am just curious on this one....the GSP, that stand for grumpy sour puss?
Want more controversy re UVA MD game?
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:27 am
by rasheed
Michael Kraus scores at 8:25 in the second quarter. Look at it in slow motion - 100% goal and nowhere near the crossbar. Virginia won this game fair and square. End of story. Watch it. 8:25 in the second.
http://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=4de ... 7c3e861447
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:36 am
by DMac
Don't even need slo mo to see it, unquestionably a goal. This officiating crew needs to be dealt with, way too many goals/non goals missed in this game and that's a big deal. Didn't see this game (wlax on at the same time), anyone notice this when it happened? Don't know how you don't see that.....or how you call a goal on a shot that comes off the pipe like a line drive. Awful.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:38 am
by johnnyonthegunpowder
Supposedly these goals were "lighter". I wonder if weight played a part?
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:48 am
by wgdsr
no idea what you guys are looking at. you have the chops to be on a quarterfinal ref crew, though. fooled by the nets. the shot in the 2nd quarter by kraus was a save. dolan's helmet pushes the top pipe up and the goal and net rattles. meanwhile, the ball went right into his stick and pops out.
the goals and nets were doing this all game long. they were cheap practice goals and nets. white nets didn't help with that combo.
note to the nc$$ for the ff:
100 lb plus goals.
black 6 mm nets.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:08 am
by DMac
you have the chops to be on a quarterfinal ref crew, though.
Yeah, because this crew miscalled at least two goals and that's a big deal.
I'm sure not seeing what you're seeing, one of you tech heads needs to put this up in slo mo.
Sure looks like no part of the GK gets any part of the ball to me, looks as if it bounces out after hitting the net.
Re: Want more controversy re UVA MD game?
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:14 am
by Wheels
You're trying this in the Maryland thread, too. That's not a goal. Like the pipe goal in the 4th, a ball hitting the net wouldn't bounce out that far. The ball hits Dolan's stick and pops 10 yards directly out from the direction it came. The goal and net moves because of Dolan's movement back into the cage.
The best indicator that neither this nor the pipe goal were goals are the reactions of Kraus. Neither he nor his teammates celebrate either goal. On the pipe goal, the players only celebrate when the one ref awards the goal (without, I might add, conferring with the other ref like they do on every other goal). UVA and Maryland players on the side of the goal where the ball ricochets out - the ones who are in the best position to see the ball and where the ref who signals the shot clock reset - all run the midfield where the ball went out. Dolan's reaction on this one you're trying to push as a goal is also worth noting. He doesn't look over his shoulder at all. He's tracking the ball back out to his front.
You're trying too hard to push this. You're not even grabbing a still shot of the video as proof. There were 3 blown calls in this game: 1) a missed offsides call on UVA's 4th goal, 2) Bernhardt's foot on the line of the crease on his dive shot, and 3) the pipe goal in the 4th quarter.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:27 am
by wgdsr
DMac wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 11:08 am
you have the chops to be on a quarterfinal ref crew, though.
Yeah, because this crew miscalled at least two goals and that's a big deal.
I'm sure not seeing what you're seeing, one of you tech heads needs to put this up in slo mo.
Sure looks like no part of the GK gets any part of the ball to me, looks as if it bounces out after hitting the net.
the ball goes right into his stick.... and then out.
the only reason i can surmise you believe it's a goal is because the net moves, because there's no spot where you can see the ball actually in the goal.
which is the same mistake the ref made in q4.
the net was moving big time all game on pipes and when the goalie made contact with a pipe. they were cheap goals/nets. hopefully the nc$$ has someone that knows what they're doing for the ff.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:57 am
by a fan
GSP wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:46 am
Lastly, there is a clear and very significant intellectual conflict in having a website that both produces a computer generated ranking with (as in any computer environment, a garbage in-garbage out risk) and opinion pieces by writers affiliated with the website.
Dude. What the firetruck are you talking about here?
This is a privately owned and operated website. The guy who owns the and operates the site can do whatever he damn well pleases.
Don't like it? Go away. Problem solved.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:15 pm
by seriously?
Yale was robbed of an actual goal v Maryland. It his the pipe inside the goal and bounced out. Yale did celebrate and it was not declared a goal. Sooo...
https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal ... story.html
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:32 pm
by Wheels
So via the transitive property, UVA deserved their pipe goal to count. Got it.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:58 pm
by CU77
admin wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:00 pm
CU, I removed all the Tourney games and scores and turned the Starting Points back to May 5th and...
This is what it looked like.
Link not working ...
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:54 pm
by admin
a fan wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 11:57 am...This is a privately owned and operated website. The guy who owns the and operates the site can do whatever he damn well pleases...
Fan, by the book, what you're saying is true. With this said... It's ours. Heck, I post a lot and numerous people post more than I do. If not in quantity, in quality. Bottomline, Fan, FanLax.com is as much yours as it is mine. And nothing'll change this. I'm just here to make sure the grass is cut and the field is lined. And, admittedly, like you all, I also enjoy the game.
GSP wrote:Rankings which take zero account of future weather, field conditions, sickness, minor injuries, scholastic loads, exams, fan attendance, which team of referees will work future games and the million other factors coursing through teenager's bodies and are therefore literally useless.
GSP, we're not trying to predict the future with our Rankings. We're trying to assess the past. Little different than the Financial Statements of a business. You might look at a P&L, Balance Sheet, and Cash Flow Statement and say, This will not grow your business! This is useless! And... To each their own. For me, the different metrics are enormously helpful in understanding much about the teams and games.
GSP wrote:Lastly, there is a clear and very significant intellectual conflict in having a website that both produces a computer generated ranking with (as in any computer environment, a garbage in-garbage out risk) and opinion pieces by writers affiliated with the website. Any human who's organization produces a computer generated evaluation or ranking will have a very human desire or tendency toward wanting their ranking to be justified. It is 100% normal for a non-celestial being to be subject to those forms of intellectual pressures. It cannot help by introduce confirmation bias into the opinion based articles it produces. It is not a healthy situation to produce both.
For the record, we've posted Rankings where we've made blatant mistakes. e.g. A cell is skipped so the numbers for two D2 Men's teams are switched causing Limestone to be switched with a weak squad. We've had our "garbage" moments and, thankfully, someone points it out and we correct it. So we don't refer to the mistakes as garbage. We refer to them as mistakes and... We fix them. Not that big a deal. Someone says, You ignore Game Scores! So, the next time, we include Game Scores as a factor in the Ranking. Our interest isn't to be opinion-makers. our interest is to better understand the teams and games.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:21 pm
by admin
CU77 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:58 pmLink not working ...
CU,
updated. (Had it set to Private. My apologies.)
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:43 pm
by Drcthru
What happened to the violin emoji?
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:08 am
by xxxxxxx
At a good high school game last night, after a shot hit the post I heard one kid say "at Virginia that's a goal"
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:15 am
by rasheed
xxxxxxx wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 10:08 am
At a good high school game last night, after a shot hit the post I heard one kid say "at Virginia that's a goal"
Hope the kid’s headed to Philly this weekend! Should be awesome.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:33 pm
by CU77
admin wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:21 pm
CU77 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:58 pmLink not working ...
CU,
updated. (Had it set to Private. My apologies.)
Well according to these Selection Sunday rankings, North Carolina should have been a top-8 seeded team, and Virginia should not have gotten a seed, and Syracuse should have been out.
The original fanlax rankings make more sense to me (and are closer to the results of other ranking systems like Massey and KRACH).
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:22 pm
by admin
Agreed. And the UNC inclusion is a good example of an anomaly that bears further looking into. Not because anyone has an issue with UNC. But because it doesn't make sense. Or... Maybe it makes 100% sense. But, either way, a good example of a need-to-look-more-closely-at-this.
While driving yesterday, I was thinking (and forgot to look more closely at), that SU got in and High Point didn't doesn't make sense. But this is an aside.
Re: D1 Men NCAA Tournament
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:40 pm
by HowieT3
johnnyonthegunpowder wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 10:38 am
Supposedly these goals were "lighter". I wonder if weight played a part?
It was the nets more than the goals' frames. They moved if you looked at them the wrong way.