LaxPower Back-Up Stick

old salt wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 5:25 pm Bay of Pigs Part Deux. ...I had a Cuban-American squadron mate who flew a B-26 from Nicaragua in that goat rope.

On 15 April 1961, at about 06:00 am Cuban local time, eight B-26B Invader bombers in three groups simultaneously attacked three Cuban airfields at San Antonio de los Baños and at Ciudad Libertad (formerly named Campo Columbia), both near Havana, plus the Antonio Maceo International Airport at Santiago de Cuba. The B-26s had been prepared by the CIA on behalf of Brigade 2506, and had been painted with the false flag markings of the FAR. Each came armed with bombs, rockets, and machine guns. They had flown from Puerto Cabezas in Nicaragua and were crewed by exiled Cuban pilots and navigators of the self-styled Fuerza Aérea de Liberación (FAL). The purpose of the action (code-named Operation Puma) was reportedly to destroy most or all of the armed aircraft of the FAR in preparation for the main invasion. At Santiago, the two attackers destroyed a C-47 transport, a PBY Catalina flying boat, two B-26s and a civilian DC-3 plus various other civilian aircraft. At San Antonio, the three attackers destroyed three FAR B-26s, one Sea Fury and one T-33, and one attacker diverted to Grand Cayman due to low usable fuel. Aircraft that diverted to the Caymans were seized by Great Britain since they were suspicious that the Cayman Islands might be perceived as a launch site for the invasion.[126] At Ciudad Libertad, the three attackers destroyed only non-operational aircraft such as two P-47 Thunderbolts. One of those attackers was damaged by anti-aircraft fire, and ditched about 50 km north of Cuba,[127] with the loss of its crew Daniel Fernández Mon and Gaston Pérez. Its companion B-26, also damaged, continued north and landed at Boca Chica Field, Florida. The crew, José Crespo and Lorenzo Pérez-Lorenzo, were granted political asylum, and made their way back to Nicaragua the next day via Miami and the daily CIA C-54 flight from Opa-locka Airport to Puerto Cabezas Airport. Their B-26, purposely numbered 933, the same as at least two other B-26s that day for disinformation reasons, was held until late on 17 April.[124][128]

old salt wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 5:35 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 5:25 pm Bay of Pigs Part Deux. ...I had a Cuban-American squadron mate who flew a B-26 from Nicaragua in that goat rope.

from wiki :

On 15 April 1961, at about 06:00 am Cuban local time, eight B-26B Invader bombers in three groups simultaneously attacked three Cuban airfields at San Antonio de los Baños and at Ciudad Libertad (formerly named Campo Columbia), both near Havana, plus the Antonio Maceo International Airport at Santiago de Cuba. The B-26s had been prepared by the CIA on behalf of Brigade 2506, and had been painted with the false flag markings of the FAR. Each came armed with bombs, rockets, and machine guns. They had flown from Puerto Cabezas in Nicaragua and were crewed by exiled Cuban pilots and navigators of the self-styled Fuerza Aérea de Liberación (FAL). The purpose of the action (code-named Operation Puma) was reportedly to destroy most or all of the armed aircraft of the FAR in preparation for the main invasion. At Santiago, the two attackers destroyed a C-47 transport, a PBY Catalina flying boat, two B-26s and a civilian DC-3 plus various other civilian aircraft. At San Antonio, the three attackers destroyed three FAR B-26s, one Sea Fury and one T-33, and one attacker diverted to Grand Cayman due to low usable fuel. Aircraft that diverted to the Caymans were seized by Great Britain since they were suspicious that the Cayman Islands might be perceived as a launch site for the invasion.[126] At Ciudad Libertad, the three attackers destroyed only non-operational aircraft such as two P-47 Thunderbolts. One of those attackers was damaged by anti-aircraft fire, and ditched about 50 km north of Cuba,[127] with the loss of its crew Daniel Fernández Mon and Gaston Pérez. Its companion B-26, also damaged, continued north and landed at Boca Chica Field, Florida. The crew, José Crespo and Lorenzo Pérez-Lorenzo, were granted political asylum, and made their way back to Nicaragua the next day via Miami and the daily CIA C-54 flight from Opa-locka Airport to Puerto Cabezas Airport. Their B-26, purposely numbered 933, the same as at least two other B-26s that day for disinformation reasons, was held until late on 17 April.[124][128]

6ftstick wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 11:11 am Under the banner off National Security

75 years ago today The Nazis surrendered. VE day

My apologies to all our posters who deny American exceptionalism.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 1:14 pm

6ftstick wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 11:11 am Under the banner off National Security

75 years ago today The Nazis surrendered. VE day

My apologies to all our posters who deny American exceptionalism.

sorry, what do you actually think "exceptionalism" means, 6ft?

Were we alone in that fight?

Of course, there is much to love about our country, its ideals, even its myths, and certainly much to honor in those who have sacrificed for generations on behalf of these ideals and their fellow citizens.

To say that America has demonstrated strength and resilience, at times in extraordinary ways, is certainly true. I think most of us, probably all of us on these threads, are thankful to be Americans.

Unfortunately, the chest thumping also has an ugly side.
And, it also has some real flaws in logic and historical perspective.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/10/11/th ... tionalism/

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:31 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 1:14 pm

6ftstick wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 11:11 am Under the banner off National Security

75 years ago today The Nazis surrendered. VE day

My apologies to all our posters who deny American exceptionalism.

sorry, what do you actually think "exceptionalism" means, 6ft?

Were we alone in that fight?

Of course, there is much to love about our country, its ideals, even its myths, and certainly much to honor in those who have sacrificed for generations on behalf of these ideals and their fellow citizens.

To say that America has demonstrated strength and resilience, at times in extraordinary ways, is certainly true. I think most of us, probably all of us on these threads, are thankful to be Americans.

Unfortunately, the chest thumping also has an ugly side.
And, it also has some real flaws in logic and historical perspective.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/10/11/th ... tionalism/

"Were we alone in that fight?"

We were more alone than you would think. Who do you think armed Great Britain and sustained their war effort? Where did the Brits come up with all of those M4 Shermans they used in their armored units. What nation fought WW2 on 2 fronts at the same time. How much help did Great Britain give us in the Pacific campaign? Who do you think supplied ammunition and materiel to the soviets via the Murmansk run supply chain. You need to buck up on your WW2 history there. We technically may not have been alone but the USA was the driving force providing the bombs, bullets and material that won the war. Those Higgins boats that made D Day possible, where did they come from? We may not have been alone, but we were as close to alone as you can get.

6ftstick wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:38 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:31 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 1:14 pm

6ftstick wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 11:11 am Under the banner off National Security

75 years ago today The Nazis surrendered. VE day

My apologies to all our posters who deny American exceptionalism.

sorry, what do you actually think "exceptionalism" means, 6ft?

Were we alone in that fight?

Of course, there is much to love about our country, its ideals, even its myths, and certainly much to honor in those who have sacrificed for generations on behalf of these ideals and their fellow citizens.

To say that America has demonstrated strength and resilience, at times in extraordinary ways, is certainly true. I think most of us, probably all of us on these threads, are thankful to be Americans.

Unfortunately, the chest thumping also has an ugly side.
And, it also has some real flaws in logic and historical perspective.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/10/11/th ... tionalism/

"Were we alone in that fight?"

We were more alone than you would think. Who do you think armed Great Britain and sustained their war effort? Where did the Brits come up with all of those M4 Shermans they used in their armored units. What nation fought WW2 on 2 fronts at the same time. How much help did Great Britain give us in the Pacific campaign? Who do you think supplied ammunition and materiel to the soviets via the Murmansk run supply chain. You need to buck up on your WW2 history there. We technically may not have been alone but the USA was the driving force providing the bombs, bullets and material that won the war. Those Higgins boats that made D Day possible, where did they come from? We may not have been alone, but we were as close to alone as you can get.

And simultaneously driving the Japanese back across the Pacific. Nahh nothing exceptional there.

la-fg-japan-surrender-11.jpg

njbill wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:50 pm Hmm. What do you think they will be writing about Trump 2000 years from now?

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

holmes435 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

Huh, you gotta make everything a right vs. left, an us vs. them. It must be exhausting hating a huge group of people that much all the time. It's also amazing that we did so many great things back then with a self-described Liberal in charge of the country.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:57 pm

njbill wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:50 pm Hmm. What do you think they will be writing about Trump 2000 years from now?

I’ll let you know in five years.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:27 pm

holmes435 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

Huh, you gotta make everything a right vs. left, an us vs. them. It must be exhausting hating a huge group of people that much all the time. It's also amazing that we did so many great things back then with a self-described Liberal in charge of the country.

Yup, ole LIB Roosevelt was the guy in charge...

cradle and 6ft,
Fascinating how little you actually understand about the full history of that war, the pain and sacrifices of our allies in the fight.

America turned the tide for sure.
Major economic power turned to war time production with no bombing of factories and infrastructure or mainland civilian lives lost... due to distance.

But if you think we were alone in our sacrifices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:27 pm

holmes435 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

Huh, you gotta make everything a right vs. left, an us vs. them. It must be exhausting hating a huge group of people that much all the time. It's also amazing that we did so many great things back then with a self-described Liberal in charge of the country.

Yup, ole LIB Roosevelt was the guy in charge...

cradle and 6ft,
Fascinating how little you actually understand about the full history of that war, the pain and sacrifices of our allies in the fight.

America turned the tide for sure.
Major economic power turned to war time production with no bombing of factories and infrastructure or mainland civilian lives lost... due to distance.

But if you think we were alone in our sacrifices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:27 pm

holmes435 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

Huh, you gotta make everything a right vs. left, an us vs. them. It must be exhausting hating a huge group of people that much all the time. It's also amazing that we did so many great things back then with a self-described Liberal in charge of the country.

Yup, ole LIB Roosevelt was the guy in charge...

cradle and 6ft,
Fascinating how little you actually understand about the full history of that war, the pain and sacrifices of our allies in the fight.

America turned the tide for sure.
Major economic power turned to war time production with no bombing of factories and infrastructure or mainland civilian lives lost... due to distance.

But if you think we were alone in our sacrifices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

What pain and sacrifice from what ally? I assume you are talking about Great Britain. You gots big brass telling me I dont understand the second world . I have spent a good part of my life studying ww2. You want to inform me about the siege of Metz and Ft Driant. You want to debate ww2 with me... bring it on Skippy. You are way out of you league on this one.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 11:36 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:27 pm

holmes435 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

Huh, you gotta make everything a right vs. left, an us vs. them. It must be exhausting hating a huge group of people that much all the time. It's also amazing that we did so many great things back then with a self-described Liberal in charge of the country.

Yup, ole LIB Roosevelt was the guy in charge...

cradle and 6ft,
Fascinating how little you actually understand about the full history of that war, the pain and sacrifices of our allies in the fight.

America turned the tide for sure.
Major economic power turned to war time production with no bombing of factories and infrastructure or mainland civilian lives lost... due to distance.

But if you think we were alone in our sacrifices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

What pain and sacrifice from what ally? I assume you are talking about Great Britain. You gots big brass telling me I dont understand the second world . I have spent a good part of my life studying ww2. You want to inform me about the siege of Metz and Ft Driant. You want to debate ww2 with me... bring it on Skippy. You are way out of you league on this one.

Read the list of casualties cradle.
Any of those countries among the allies other than Great Britain?

6ftstick wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 8:00 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 11:36 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:27 pm

holmes435 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

Huh, you gotta make everything a right vs. left, an us vs. them. It must be exhausting hating a huge group of people that much all the time. It's also amazing that we did so many great things back then with a self-described Liberal in charge of the country.

Yup, ole LIB Roosevelt was the guy in charge...

cradle and 6ft,
Fascinating how little you actually understand about the full history of that war, the pain and sacrifices of our allies in the fight.

America turned the tide for sure.
Major economic power turned to war time production with no bombing of factories and infrastructure or mainland civilian lives lost... due to distance.

But if you think we were alone in our sacrifices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

What pain and sacrifice from what ally? I assume you are talking about Great Britain. You gots big brass telling me I dont understand the second world . I have spent a good part of my life studying ww2. You want to inform me about the siege of Metz and Ft Driant. You want to debate ww2 with me... bring it on Skippy. You are way out of you league on this one.

Read the list of casualties cradle.
Any of those countries among the allies other than Great Britain?

And they would have all died for nothing if the US hadn't entered the war. We'd all be speaking german and Japanese now unless the full weight of the American people and industry hadn't taken up the fight.

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 8:32 am

6ftstick wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 8:00 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 11:36 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:27 pm

holmes435 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:00 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:42 pmand all of the leftist prattle about racism, sexism, and all the other ism's that the Left gets their panties twisted in a bunch about won't even merit one sentence.

Huh, you gotta make everything a right vs. left, an us vs. them. It must be exhausting hating a huge group of people that much all the time. It's also amazing that we did so many great things back then with a self-described Liberal in charge of the country.

Yup, ole LIB Roosevelt was the guy in charge...

cradle and 6ft,
Fascinating how little you actually understand about the full history of that war, the pain and sacrifices of our allies in the fight.

America turned the tide for sure.
Major economic power turned to war time production with no bombing of factories and infrastructure or mainland civilian lives lost... due to distance.

But if you think we were alone in our sacrifices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

What pain and sacrifice from what ally? I assume you are talking about Great Britain. You gots big brass telling me I dont understand the second world . I have spent a good part of my life studying ww2. You want to inform me about the siege of Metz and Ft Driant. You want to debate ww2 with me... bring it on Skippy. You are way out of you league on this one.

Read the list of casualties cradle.
Any of those countries among the allies other than Great Britain?

And they would have all died for nothing if the US hadn't entered the war. We'd all be speaking german and Japanese now unless the full weight of the American people and industry hadn't taken up the fight.

And even though they have not been our ally since the war - the fact that the Soviet Union fought along that Eastern Front (that Hitler unwisely opened) and suffered immense losses certainly were a factor in our assistance arriving before Europe was totally lost. As well as serving as a giant sink of resources for the Germans.