Geez 72, you forgot to include these very sensible folks...how'd that happen?
Bingo !!! What's the EU's excuse ?wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:18 ampresidential candidate biden on march 10th had a big campaign rally scheduled but had to beg off bc the ohio governor had to ask him to cancel. so he held a smaller rally in phila instead.6ftstick wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:22 amMere speculation.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:05 am I agree that HRC would have handled this better, though not perfectly for sure.
I don't share Doc's degree of enthusiasm about HRC, but directionally he's correct.
There's almost no one who could have, much less would have, convinced so many people not to be concerned with "just the flu" than Trump. The degree of arrogance and petulance is unmatched, coupled with a megaphone unparalleled in our history. At a minimum, that's cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of economic damage.
Jeb would have been immensely more competent, with instincts far superior at every darn step. Anyone actually question that, now?
Obama? Romney, McCain?
There's no question that any of these would have been far superior in their management of this challenge. None of them would have denied the science, the harsh reality of the impending calamity. And all of them would have called their government to action much earlier, demanding progress.
Which doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been screw ups, or that any of them would have necessarily put the country in lockdown soon enough to totally avoid the catastrophe (though weeks earlier).
There's no doubt in my mind that testing would not have been allowed to tumble along so slowly without the Chief Executive shaking it up much earlier.
And there's none of these who would have so dumbly said "we're not a shipping clerk" and resisted federalizing the supply and distribution of essential materials to combat the virus, from testing, to PPE's, to ventilators. That would have been moved on by any of these, early on.
And they'd be looking at the food system and getting PPE's to that channel. It's critical to keep that flowing.
It would still be very, very rough, but the magnitude of damage would have been much lower.
But here we are. We have the POTUS we have.
Thank god he appears to be scared now.
Still stupid, still petulant, but finally letting the science and truth be told to the American people.
And that's a good thing.
Prominent Democrats—late in February and early March—were advising people to "come on out take the subway, go to restaurants" "Enjoy Mardi Gras"
"lets show our chinese community how much we appreciate them and join in the New Year parade. Here in the year of the rat.
From the New York City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot
“There is no reason not to take the subway, not to take the bus, not to go out to your favorite restaurant, and certainly not to miss the parade next Sunday.” Barbot said during a Feb. 2 press conference addressing the pandemic.
Barbot was referring to a New York Chinatown parade, which celebrates China’s New Year and took place on Feb. 9. Barbot appeared to suggest Trump’s travel restrictions were racist in Feb. 2 tweet to her followers.
“I want to be clear, this is about a virus, not a group of people. There is NO excuse for anyone to discriminate or stigmatize people of Asian heritage. We are here today to urge all New Yorkers to continue to live their lives as usual,” she said.
You haven't a clue what would be different now if someone else was president. Not a clue
https://www.c-span.org/video/?470244-1/ ... iladelphia
days later he was going to give out what he would do if he were president.
on march 17th he thanked folks for keeping the polls open in florida and illinois.
he would've had 100s of thousands of ventilators lined up? tens of millions of tests? billions of ppe? he was not privy to every classified meeting trump was, but hebsurely has been in the loop with vital info for a long time.
so was congress. where were they when they weren't dumping stock? and putting pork in a crisis bill.
where were governors dem and rep in shutting down their states before a problem arose? didn't the state of washington give them a warning? they were oh-fer. but a federal shutdown would've happened on some strawman's watch?
would everything needed now be there already? out of thin air?
schumer and many other dems castigated the feckless china travel ban as racist. didn't age well.
the truth is we were unprepared. trump's whole timeline has been abysmal. we were unprepared as a country and someone stepping in somewhat earlier is theoretical at best and doesn't change my point. other than possibly by degrees.
again... because we were so unprepared structurally and philosophically, at each other's throats for political points, little chance to win this and mobilize like the few countries that have. a cluster.
Assume you are asking for my input, or am I just in your head?Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:05 am Humanity is a winner, always! Respectable infectious disease specialist in SF says he has cure; JHU72 sure to demean this fellow shortly.
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/healt ... d49d20bebf
jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:46 amAssume you are asking for my input, or am I just in your head?Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:05 am Humanity is a winner, always! Respectable infectious disease specialist in SF says he has cure; JHU72 sure to demean this fellow shortly.
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/healt ... d49d20bebf
Your prediction is wrong (as usual). Solid approach by reputable people that understand the process (not trying to go around it). May work out.
Probably waiting to decide how many to send to NYC, MI, &/or LA, where the need is most urgent.jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:36 am DOD says they are not and have not been shipping ventilators because DHHS and FEMA haven't supplied shipping addresses. It's either true or a CYA by DOD. Its the administration no matter how you cut it.
Fully expect them to blame the States.
You mean to say you support actual scientists and doctors going through actual trials and procedures to developing a safe and effective treatment? That's just crazy liberal talk.jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:46 amAssume you are asking for my input, or am I just in your head?Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:05 am Humanity is a winner, always! Respectable infectious disease specialist in SF says he has cure; JHU72 sure to demean this fellow shortly.
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/healt ... d49d20bebf
Your prediction is wrong (as usual). Solid approach by reputable people that understand the process (not trying to go around it). May work out.
This is all true. But the reaction shouldn't be "Trump gets a pass because the EU and NY screwed up, too".old salt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:12 am Bingo !!! What's the EU's excuse ?
You were soooo right when you said we have no national leaders, just party leaders.
Draft Jeh Johnson for President in 2020, or hell, I'll join the coup now !
Senile Biden's only criteria for a VP & successor is gender. God help us.
by Eric Topol, MD, Editor in chief of Medscape. Medscape is a website providing access to medical information for clinicians; the organization also provides continuing education for physicians and health professionals.Topol: US Betrays Healthcare Workers in Coronavirus Disaster
For the sake of comparison, during the month of February, South Korea performed more than 75,000 tests (versus just 352 in the United States) and adopted all of the WHO best practices, which includes massive testing, tracing every contact of a person infected and testing that person, quarantine of all known cases, and social distancing.
The United States did none of these. Instead, officials repeatedly made bad choices that put public health in jeopardy, along with the healthcare workers charged with caring for the public.
Together, a situation was set up for healthcare workers to not have masks — or to reuse them for days on end — and lack other protective gear. And this is about plain 75 cent masks, not the N95s that are better for blocking aerosol droplets.
But the required sharing of equipment is not just among doctors and nurses; it even extends to patients sharing a ventilator in some intensive care units. To put some numbers on ventilators, we will need several hundred thousand to a million but have fewer than 160,000 throughout the country.
It's bad enough that the United States was totally unprepared for a pandemic and has such an unimaginable shortage of requisite resources. But the situation still gets worse. On a widespread basis, doctors and nurses are being gagged and muzzled by administrators for expressing their concerns, and penalized or even fired when they do speak out.
That doctors and clinicians are succumbing to the virus is beyond a tragedy, as many of these dedicated individuals are dying unnecessarily, as a result of the no-testing and no-PPE fiascos.
Yet a far greater toll in numbers is the temporary loss of clinicians to infections and sickness. This is the other poorly recognized exponential growth curve: As each doctor, nurse, respiratory therapist, paramedic, and patient-care person takes care of tens to hundreds of patients at any given time, the loss of even one of these individuals has a dramatic ripple effect on the shortage of professionals trained to care for affected patients, no less the non-COVID-19 usual patient mix. No number of accelerated medical school graduations (which are being announced) can compensate for these losses, not just by numbers but also by experience.
The handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States will go down as the worst public health disaster in the history of the country. The loss of lives will make 9/11 and so many other catastrophes appear much smaller in their scale of devastation. Perhaps what we in the medical community will remember most is how our country betrayed us at the moment when our efforts were needed most.
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/
All sorts of quotes are interesting PB, but there really isn't any doubt that any of these folks would have been markedly better than Trump's gross negligence, and that of his obsequious sycophants.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:29 amMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:05 am I agree that HRC would have handled this better, though not perfectly for sure.
I don't share Doc's degree of enthusiasm about HRC, but directionally he's correct.
There's almost no one who could have, much less would have, convinced so many people not to be concerned with "just the flu" than Trump. The degree of arrogance and petulance is unmatched, coupled with a megaphone unparalleled in our history. At a minimum, that's cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of economic damage.
Jeb would have been immensely more competent, with instincts far superior at every darn step. Anyone actually question that, now?
Obama? Romney, McCain?
There's no question that any of these would have been far superior in their management of this challenge. None of them would have denied the science, the harsh reality of the impending calamity. And all of them would have called their government to action much earlier, demanding progress.
Which doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been screw ups, or that any of them would have necessarily put the country in lockdown soon enough to totally avoid the catastrophe (though weeks earlier).
There's no doubt in my mind that testing would not have been allowed to tumble along so slowly without the Chief Executive shaking it up much earlier.
And there's none of these who would have so dumbly said "we're not a shipping clerk" and resisted federalizing the supply and distribution of essential materials to combat the virus, from testing, to PPE's, to ventilators. That would have been moved on by any of these, early on.
And they'd be looking at the food system and getting PPE's to that channel. It's critical to keep that flowing.
It would still be very, very rough, but the magnitude of damage would have been much lower.
But here we are. We have the POTUS we have.
Thank god he appears to be scared now.
Still stupid, still petulant, but finally letting the science and truth be told to the American people.
And that's a good thing.
I am not sure I agree with this, MD; not sure any of these folks are true leaders. What's that great quote about misfortune, we are all amateurs until it hits us... Another way to look at it is a Charlie Chaplin quote: That's all any of us are: amateurs. We don't live long enough to be anything else.
One other relevant quote to ponder:
Albert Camus about American Democrats: When the soul suffers too much, it develops a taste for misfortune.
Here's my curveball for the day: I think, amazingly, that Corey Booker might be an effective leader in a crisis like this.
Slay me; I take all incoming.
