All things CoronaVirus

[6ftstick]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

You are delusional if you think Hillary would have gone into denial and done nothing for six weeks. Those six weeks of inaction were the ballgame.

DocBarrister

Agreed. Lots has gone wrong. You can't blame everything on Trump. What you can however say that is so obviously true, is that Trump does not like listening to experts, he is threatened by them. He is the expert! This caused a significant delay in meaningful action while he whipped up his base against the position of the experts. Pretty much any "normal" president of either party would have handled the situation better. Everyone of his immediate predecessors would have done better. Hillary believes in experts - she would have handled it better. You already see some governors doing better jobs than others. Enough of the TAATS horseshlt.

You must have missed the presser yesterday.

Fauci and Birx both said they have no data yet that supports the position that the virus was even here during those 6 weeks.The only thing that would be different now is that we'd have been in isolation for 5 weeks instead of 15 days and the economy would be crippled.

Hillary Clinton wasn't smart enough to protect an american embassy in Libya on the first anniversary of 911 after we killed Bin Laden.

not sure we should even bother to try to explain stuff to you, 6ft.
You obviously don't want to listen at all.

"virus was even here those 6 weeks" good lord

See Birx and Fauci

I watched them. Perhaps I missed them both say something absolutely stupid and untrue?

I doubt it.

Understandable. You miss anything and everything that doesn't fit your agenda

[MDlaxfan76]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

You are delusional if you think Hillary would have gone into denial and done nothing for six weeks. Those six weeks of inaction were the ballgame.

DocBarrister

Agreed. Lots has gone wrong. You can't blame everything on Trump. What you can however say that is so obviously true, is that Trump does not like listening to experts, he is threatened by them. He is the expert! This caused a significant delay in meaningful action while he whipped up his base against the position of the experts. Pretty much any "normal" president of either party would have handled the situation better. Everyone of his immediate predecessors would have done better. Hillary believes in experts - she would have handled it better. You already see some governors doing better jobs than others. Enough of the TAATS horseshlt.

You must have missed the presser yesterday.

Fauci and Birx both said they have no data yet that supports the position that the virus was even here during those 6 weeks.The only thing that would be different now is that we'd have been in isolation for 5 weeks instead of 15 days and the economy would be crippled.

Hillary Clinton wasn't smart enough to protect an american embassy in Libya on the first anniversary of 911 after we killed Bin Laden.

First CV case in US was 1/20/2020. Patient was visiting family in Wuhan and had recently returned to Seattle area. It is fairly clear that he spread the disease to a number of people in that area, leading to an intense local outbreak (including more than one nursing home). However it was not clear about the other cases (community spread) for some time. By early March, other travelers (not coming from China) had brought in cases.

The virus was present - but for the most part it wasn't widely known and was at a fairly low level until March.

Yup, "low level" was when it could have been contained, but was not.

The experts knew darn well how geometric the spread was, it had already happened in China.
They knew this at least as early as Feb 1...

[MDlaxfan76]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

You are delusional if you think Hillary would have gone into denial and done nothing for six weeks. Those six weeks of inaction were the ballgame.

DocBarrister

Agreed. Lots has gone wrong. You can't blame everything on Trump. What you can however say that is so obviously true, is that Trump does not like listening to experts, he is threatened by them. He is the expert! This caused a significant delay in meaningful action while he whipped up his base against the position of the experts. Pretty much any "normal" president of either party would have handled the situation better. Everyone of his immediate predecessors would have done better. Hillary believes in experts - she would have handled it better. You already see some governors doing better jobs than others. Enough of the TAATS horseshlt.

You must have missed the presser yesterday.

Fauci and Birx both said they have no data yet that supports the position that the virus was even here during those 6 weeks.The only thing that would be different now is that we'd have been in isolation for 5 weeks instead of 15 days and the economy would be crippled.

Hillary Clinton wasn't smart enough to protect an american embassy in Libya on the first anniversary of 911 after we killed Bin Laden.

not sure we should even bother to try to explain stuff to you, 6ft.
You obviously don't want to listen at all.

"virus was even here those 6 weeks" good lord

See Birx and Fauci

I watched them. Perhaps I missed them both say something absolutely stupid and untrue?

I doubt it.

Understandable. You miss anything and everything that doesn't fit your agenda

sure

[Matnum PI]

Understandable. You miss anything and everything that doesn't fit your agenda

You're projecting, 6ft. Little of what MD says is partisan. He discusses Corona (and Trump's relationship with Corona). You discuss Trump (and Corona's relationship with Trump).

[CU88]

3 weeks ago:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

[6ftstick]

Understandable. You miss anything and everything that doesn't fit your agenda

You're projecting, 6ft. Little of what MD says is partisan. He discusses Corona (and Trump's relationship with Corona). You discuss Trump (and Corona's relationship with Trump).

Oh please. Everything he says is partisan.

[Brooklyn]

Fearless Leader demonstrates great initiative during the present crisis:







the better scenario:

[dislaxxic]

Thank goodness nothing Trump says is partisan...

Oh. Wait.

How Donald Trump Plans on Spinning 200,000 Coronavirus Deaths as a Win

..

[tech37]

Understandable. You miss anything and everything that doesn't fit your agenda

You're projecting, 6ft. Little of what MD says is partisan.

Now that's funny. Anyone who claims they would vote for a block of wood over the incumbent POTUS is very objective

[jhu72]

Understandable. You miss anything and everything that doesn't fit your agenda

You're projecting, 6ft. Little of what MD says is partisan.

Now that's funny. Anyone who claims they would vote for a block of wood over the incumbent POTUS is very objective

Who said they would vote for you over the incumbent POTUS?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Thank goodness nothing Trump says is partisan...

Oh. Wait.

How Donald Trump Plans on Spinning 200,000 Coronavirus Deaths as a Win

..

Once Trump started talking about 200k deaths I relaxed. He will come in under that and claim a victory. His MO.

[wgdsr]

I agree that HRC would have handled this better, though not perfectly for sure.

I don't share Doc's degree of enthusiasm about HRC, but directionally he's correct.

There's almost no one who could have, much less would have, convinced so many people not to be concerned with "just the flu" than Trump. The degree of arrogance and petulance is unmatched, coupled with a megaphone unparalleled in our history. At a minimum, that's cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of economic damage.

Jeb would have been immensely more competent, with instincts far superior at every darn step. Anyone actually question that, now?

Obama? Romney, McCain?

There's no question that any of these would have been far superior in their management of this challenge. None of them would have denied the science, the harsh reality of the impending calamity. And all of them would have called their government to action much earlier, demanding progress.

Which doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been screw ups, or that any of them would have necessarily put the country in lockdown soon enough to totally avoid the catastrophe (though weeks earlier).

There's no doubt in my mind that testing would not have been allowed to tumble along so slowly without the Chief Executive shaking it up much earlier.

And there's none of these who would have so dumbly said "we're not a shipping clerk" and resisted federalizing the supply and distribution of essential materials to combat the virus, from testing, to PPE's, to ventilators. That would have been moved on by any of these, early on.

And they'd be looking at the food system and getting PPE's to that channel. It's critical to keep that flowing.

It would still be very, very rough, but the magnitude of damage would have been much lower.

But here we are. We have the POTUS we have.
Thank god he appears to be scared now.
Still stupid, still petulant, but finally letting the science and truth be told to the American people.

And that's a good thing.

Mere speculation.

Prominent Democrats—late in February and early March—were advising people to "come on out take the subway, go to restaurants" "Enjoy Mardi Gras"
"lets show our chinese community how much we appreciate them and join in the New Year parade. Here in the year of the rat.

From the New York City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot

“There is no reason not to take the subway, not to take the bus, not to go out to your favorite restaurant, and certainly not to miss the parade next Sunday.” Barbot said during a Feb. 2 press conference addressing the pandemic.

Barbot was referring to a New York Chinatown parade, which celebrates China’s New Year and took place on Feb. 9. Barbot appeared to suggest Trump’s travel restrictions were racist in Feb. 2 tweet to her followers.

“I want to be clear, this is about a virus, not a group of people. There is NO excuse for anyone to discriminate or stigmatize people of Asian heritage. We are here today to urge all New Yorkers to continue to live their lives as usual,” she said.

You haven't a clue what would be different now if someone else was president. Not a clue

presidential candidate biden on march 10th had a big campaign rally scheduled but had to beg off bc the ohio governor had to ask him to cancel. so he held a smaller rally in phila instead.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?470244-1/ ... iladelphia
days later he was going to give out what he would do if he were president.
on march 17th he thanked folks for keeping the polls open in florida and illinois.
he would've had 100s of thousands of ventilators lined up? tens of millions of tests? billions of ppe? he was not privy to every classified meeting trump was, but hebsurely has been in the loop with vital info for a long time.
so was congress. where were they when they weren't dumping stock? and putting pork in a crisis bill.
where were governors dem and rep in shutting down their states before a problem arose? didn't the state of washington give them a warning? they were oh-fer. but a federal shutdown would've happened on some strawman's watch?
would everything needed now be there already? out of thin air?
schumer and many other dems castigated the feckless china travel ban as racist. didn't age well.

the truth is we were unprepared. trump's whole timeline has been abysmal. we were unprepared as a country and someone stepping in somewhat earlier is theoretical at best and doesn't change my point. other than possibly by degrees.

again... because we were so unprepared structurally and philosophically, at each other's throats for political points, little chance to win this and mobilize like the few countries that have. a cluster.

[Matnum PI]

Now that's funny. Anyone who claims they would vote for a block of wood over the incumbent POTUS is very objective

Deploring one human being is not partisan.

[Matnum PI]

[6ftstick]

I agree that HRC would have handled this better, though not perfectly for sure.

I don't share Doc's degree of enthusiasm about HRC, but directionally he's correct.

There's almost no one who could have, much less would have, convinced so many people not to be concerned with "just the flu" than Trump. The degree of arrogance and petulance is unmatched, coupled with a megaphone unparalleled in our history. At a minimum, that's cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of economic damage.

Jeb would have been immensely more competent, with instincts far superior at every darn step. Anyone actually question that, now?

Obama? Romney, McCain?

There's no question that any of these would have been far superior in their management of this challenge. None of them would have denied the science, the harsh reality of the impending calamity. And all of them would have called their government to action much earlier, demanding progress.

Which doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been screw ups, or that any of them would have necessarily put the country in lockdown soon enough to totally avoid the catastrophe (though weeks earlier).

There's no doubt in my mind that testing would not have been allowed to tumble along so slowly without the Chief Executive shaking it up much earlier.

And there's none of these who would have so dumbly said "we're not a shipping clerk" and resisted federalizing the supply and distribution of essential materials to combat the virus, from testing, to PPE's, to ventilators. That would have been moved on by any of these, early on.

And they'd be looking at the food system and getting PPE's to that channel. It's critical to keep that flowing.

It would still be very, very rough, but the magnitude of damage would have been much lower.

But here we are. We have the POTUS we have.
Thank god he appears to be scared now.
Still stupid, still petulant, but finally letting the science and truth be told to the American people.

And that's a good thing.

Mere speculation.

Prominent Democrats—late in February and early March—were advising people to "come on out take the subway, go to restaurants" "Enjoy Mardi Gras"
"lets show our chinese community how much we appreciate them and join in the New Year parade. Here in the year of the rat.

From the New York City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot

“There is no reason not to take the subway, not to take the bus, not to go out to your favorite restaurant, and certainly not to miss the parade next Sunday.” Barbot said during a Feb. 2 press conference addressing the pandemic.

Barbot was referring to a New York Chinatown parade, which celebrates China’s New Year and took place on Feb. 9. Barbot appeared to suggest Trump’s travel restrictions were racist in Feb. 2 tweet to her followers.

“I want to be clear, this is about a virus, not a group of people. There is NO excuse for anyone to discriminate or stigmatize people of Asian heritage. We are here today to urge all New Yorkers to continue to live their lives as usual,” she said.

You haven't a clue what would be different now if someone else was president. Not a clue

again... because we were so unprepared structurally and philosophically, at each other's throats for political points, little chance to win this and mobilize like the few countries that have. a cluster.

+1

[Peter Brown]

I agree that HRC would have handled this better, though not perfectly for sure.

I don't share Doc's degree of enthusiasm about HRC, but directionally he's correct.

There's almost no one who could have, much less would have, convinced so many people not to be concerned with "just the flu" than Trump. The degree of arrogance and petulance is unmatched, coupled with a megaphone unparalleled in our history. At a minimum, that's cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of economic damage.

Jeb would have been immensely more competent, with instincts far superior at every darn step. Anyone actually question that, now?

Obama? Romney, McCain?

There's no question that any of these would have been far superior in their management of this challenge. None of them would have denied the science, the harsh reality of the impending calamity. And all of them would have called their government to action much earlier, demanding progress.

Which doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been screw ups, or that any of them would have necessarily put the country in lockdown soon enough to totally avoid the catastrophe (though weeks earlier).

There's no doubt in my mind that testing would not have been allowed to tumble along so slowly without the Chief Executive shaking it up much earlier.

And there's none of these who would have so dumbly said "we're not a shipping clerk" and resisted federalizing the supply and distribution of essential materials to combat the virus, from testing, to PPE's, to ventilators. That would have been moved on by any of these, early on.

And they'd be looking at the food system and getting PPE's to that channel. It's critical to keep that flowing.

It would still be very, very rough, but the magnitude of damage would have been much lower.

But here we are. We have the POTUS we have.
Thank god he appears to be scared now.
Still stupid, still petulant, but finally letting the science and truth be told to the American people.

And that's a good thing.

I am not sure I agree with this, MD; not sure any of these folks are true leaders. What's that great quote about misfortune, we are all amateurs until it hits us... Another way to look at it is a Charlie Chaplin quote: That's all any of us are: amateurs. We don't live long enough to be anything else.

One other relevant quote to ponder:

Albert Camus about American Democrats: When the soul suffers too much, it develops a taste for misfortune. \

Here's my curveball for the day: I think, amazingly, that Corey Booker might be an effective leader in a crisis like this.

Slay me; I take all incoming.

[jhu72]

Its an ill wind that blows no good.

[CU88]

The pandemic effect on world leader approval ratings since March 11

Trump +5 (but still unpopular)
...
Johnson (UK) +29
Morrison (Australia) +24
Trudeau (Canada) +21
Merkel (Germany) +18
Macron (France) +12 ... but still unpopular
Bolsonaro -5 ... but still popular

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... 538twitter

[jhu72]

The pandemic effect on world leader approval ratings since March 11

Trump +5 (but still unpopular)
...
Johnson (UK) +29
Morrison (Australia) +24
Trudeau (Canada) +21
Merkel (Germany) +18
Macron (France) +12 ... but still unpopular
Bolsonaro -5 ... but still popular

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... 538twitter

After the dust settles, it will be interesting to measure the effect this crises has on the American public's view of climate change.

[old salt]

The Navy has announced they will evacuate the TR in Guam. A rotating watch section of 10% of the crew will remain onboard to man the reactor, fire & damage control parties. The crew will berth ashore in hotels & tents until ship is disinfected & crew COVID free or recovered.

I hope the Navy equips & staffs a big deck amphib carrier (LHA/LPD) as a hospital ship & sends it to NOLA.
Not as well equipped as Comfort/Mercy but more than a floating field hospital.

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/0 ... ed-article

Rather than exposing the crews to the risk of infectious disease aboard a ship, the Navy currently plans to use the Comfort and Mercy for their trauma care capability and large capacity to ease the medical burden on hospitals treating COVID-19 patients. Aircraft carriers and large deck amphibious ships are well suited to do the same. With a crew of more than 6,000 sailors – including six medical officers, one operating room, three ICU beds, 52 ward beds, a medical laboratory, and a pharmacy – aircraft carriers are already configured to provide outstanding medical support for warfighting.