January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[Farfromgeneva]

Jumbo (whether trolling or not - I'll not worry about that for now) raises a question/point that is worth exploring. There are a lot of people in the world that are happy to label people in order to dismiss and/or "other" them.

Whether it is MAGATs or liberal fools or FLP's (still not sure what that stands for?) the typecasting dismissive sneers aren't going to win over anyone, maybe they're intended to earn cheers and knowing looks from those within your own "in-crowd"?

In the end, all they do is solidify the Us-v-Them mentality and virtue signal to some tribe you think you are a member of.

The context here is important. We're in the Jan 6th thread.

So to me (and most here, I'd wager), there's miles and miles difference between the people who protested peacefully and legally in DC....and those who broke the law, invaded our Capital....putting them feet away Senators (!), and who the F knows what would have happened if they got to them.

What kept Jan 6th from being a bloodbath are the DC police who could have REASONABLY simply emptied their clips on those who were inside the building. And heaven help us if the Capitol was like I would prefer----much better armaments INSIDE the building, having hopefully learned our lessons from 9/11.

Want to vote Trump? Great. Protest in DC? Cool. Break laws? Don't care if your Antifa or the Jan 6th crew (what would you like us to call them?)....jail. And for me? Much of what the antifa crew did was WORSE....because they used fire in a few cases. That's insane. That shows you're reckless and stupid, and deserve VERY long terms, imho.

BTW, the term MAGA, implies that you don't love America as is. That you USED to love it, but don't now. It's as bad of a choice of acronym as BLM. The intent is great, the execution isn't.

you and I are talking about two completely different things. And I agree with the illogic between the campaign slogan and the people who use it now - can't fix stupid.

Jumbo's poke seems to me to be centered around the derogatory use of "MAGAt" to (I assume) describe supposed Trump supporters and those who can't understand the nuance that you pointed out.

The over-reaction by posters to his comment are a good indication that they know they have been using the term derisively. And intentionally so. And they don't want to admit that they are using it as a substitute for "white trash piece of shite" (as the Irish would say).

I made no comment about the protesters nor the revolutionary insurrectionists. I would not stand downwind of anyone involved on any side of that regrettable event...

My point is merely that name calling does nothing to find common ground or convince someone to see things your way.....

You’re applying an assumption as to what Jumbo means. Why can’t just say it and have a normal course of inquiry like most of us have utilized here plenty when he just rolls in and now we’re discussing labeling instead of that bs? You allowed this fester by not focusing on the very clear effort in bad faith of dialogue from the jump by the new guy.

[Farfromgeneva]

Just to clarify. So anyone that loves America, is in a cult? Are there any other characteristics we should be looking for?

Believing the 1960s - 1980s America was greater than today is delusional and part of being in the cult.

note I didn’t use the term but actually addressed what it stands for literally then was called Gen Z or affiliated which was intended to be pejorative.

Hoo, you’re letting that dude off the hook way too easily unless you’re just dismissing him as a joke worth none of your focus already but then why defend your interpretation of his point which you don’t even know if it is what he means?

[Jumbo]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

[HooDat]

now we’re discussing labeling instead of that bs?

ah, see labeling IS the point. The rest is the BS. The labeling is how we got here. The labeling allows the folks in the middle to get pitted against each other letting the a$$hats accumulate power without recourse. The labeling is the key part of the powerful keeping power.

Hoo, you’re letting that dude off the hook way too easily unless you’re just dismissing him as a joke worth none of your focus already but then why defend your interpretation of his point which you don’t even know if it is what he means?

not defending anyone. I even admitted there is a good chance he is trolling.

I am just hijacking the thread to talk about what led to Jan 6. And for that matter what led to the riots the summer before .... Labeling and dividing us into two neat and tidy groups of chumps.

[Kismet]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Really? I must have missed it. Please post it again or quote what you said - I don't see it. thx

[Jumbo]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

[dislaxxic]

The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection.

Fake News...aka...a LIE. Well, unless Yummy can provide a credible, factual citation...

..

[Farfromgeneva]

now we’re discussing labeling instead of that bs?

ah, see labeling IS the point. The rest is the BS. The labeling is how we got here. The labeling allows the folks in the middle to get pitted against each other letting the a$$hats accumulate power without recourse. The labeling is the key part of the powerful keeping power.

Hoo, you’re letting that dude off the hook way too easily unless you’re just dismissing him as a joke worth none of your focus already but then why defend your interpretation of his point which you don’t even know if it is what he means?

not defending anyone. I even admitted there is a good chance he is trolling.

I am just hijacking the thread to talk about what led to Jan 6. And for that matter what led to the riots the summer before .... Labeling and dividing us into two neat and tidy groups of chumps.

Is indexing and labeling the same thing? I don’t know if I follow your comment fully or agree. And again, MAGA is worn with pride which is distinctly different. They chose that label. But can’t really define it well, none have articulated what it means coherently for 6-8yrs now. The idea that it means they love America is wildly incongruous as Afan already pointed out by the very definition of the word strung together. It’s a dumb slogan a bunch of desperate people attached themselves to in need of a savior and started cheerleading but it was of their own choosing as opposed to labels slapped onto folks by others without consent. Nobody crusades to call themselves FLPs or lib!ards. There’s a very key distinction and difference here.

If you mean that the clerics stole power from the warriors (to steal from Nietzsche) through heuristics, information asymmetry and misdirection then sure. But that doesn’t necessarily exclude any value in labeling or as I prefer to think about it “indexing”. This isn’t to say I don’t believe in the power of free will, I’m an existentialist, but it’s also silly to ignore consistent patterns of behavior combined with an observation that the pattern comes with a lack of self awareness by those creating their own self directed behavior.

To the other part understood and I hijack all the time to redirect a discussion. Just couldn’t tolerate the initial trolling which was directed right at me. And as for splitting into two. A human being is lost in cognitive distortions once they employ binary thinking rather than understanding there’s a spectrum. There’s no room for discourse or even compromise without an understanding of the spectrum and degrees of difference.

[a fan]

If you mean that the clerics stole power from the warriors (to steal from Nietzsche) through heuristics, information asymmetry and misdirection then sure. But that doesn’t necessarily exclude any value in labeling or as I prefer to think about it “indexing”. This isn’t to say I don’t believe in the power of free will, I’m an existentialist, but it’s also silly to ignore consistent patterns of behavior combined with an observation that the pattern comes with a lack of self awareness by those creating their own self directed behavior. .

You know, I visited Hobart with the idea of attending years ago. I was impressed. Your posts on so many different subjects show I was right to be impressed.

[SCLaxAttack]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

“If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore."

Yeah, that sounds peaceful.

MAGAts.

[Farfromgeneva]

If you mean that the clerics stole power from the warriors (to steal from Nietzsche) through heuristics, information asymmetry and misdirection then sure. But that doesn’t necessarily exclude any value in labeling or as I prefer to think about it “indexing”. This isn’t to say I don’t believe in the power of free will, I’m an existentialist, but it’s also silly to ignore consistent patterns of behavior combined with an observation that the pattern comes with a lack of self awareness by those creating their own self directed behavior. .

You know, I visited Hobart with the idea of attending years ago. I was impressed. Your posts on so many different subjects show I was right to be impressed.

Kind words thank you. Keep in mind the school is like half boarding school kids where Bart was the safety school, pretty high level of misogyny though the pearl earring New England prep girls feed into that and I was on social probation half the time I was there. But I feel like the faculty at least when I was there was as good as any. The administration and overall management left a lot to be desired though.

And you have to develop a hatred for Syracuse lacrosse as part of orientation. Come join us. Like my Irish folks, we take all comers and converts!

[Jumbo]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

“If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore."

Yeah, that sounds peaceful.

MAGAts.

With your logic. When Obama said bring a gun to a knife fight, he is directly responsible for all gun murders during his time.
But back to reality. There is a reason trump has not, and will never be, charged with any connection to the break in on 1/6. Because he was not responsible. But you can continue to live fantasy world, and blame trump for everything wrong in your life. Doesn’t impact anyone, but you

[Farfromgeneva]

Where has my country gone?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=leIPcLQK8IY

[MDlaxfan76]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

“If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore."

Yeah, that sounds peaceful.

MAGAts.

With your logic. When Obama said bring a gun to a knife fight, he is directly responsible for all gun murders during his time.
But back to reality. There is a reason trump has not, and will never be, charged with any connection to the break in on 1/6. Because he was not responsible. But you can continue to live fantasy world, and blame trump for everything wrong in your life. Doesn’t impact anyone, but you

Can we pin this one for future review?

I haven't read a single poster claiming that Trump is to "blame" for "everything in your (their) life".
Not one.
I wonder why this projection makes sense to you, Jumbo.

"a protest blown out of proportion"...where's that citation re FBI and "insurrection"???

[Typical Lax Dad]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

“If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore."

Yeah, that sounds peaceful.

MAGAts.

With your logic. When Obama said bring a gun to a knife fight, he is directly responsible for all gun murders during his time.
But back to reality. There is a reason trump has not, and will never be, charged with any connection to the break in on 1/6. Because he was not responsible. But you can continue to live fantasy world, and blame trump for everything wrong in your life. Doesn’t impact anyone, but you

Thanks Jumbo Shrimp.

[njbill]

I actually do blame Trump for everything that went wrong in my life. That girl in high school I had a crush on who wouldn’t give me the time of day? That was Trump’s fault.

[Jumbo]

I actually do blame Trump for everything that went wrong in my life. That girl in high school I had a crush on who wouldn’t give me the time of day? That was Trump’s fault.

Cool

[Jumbo]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

“If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore."

Yeah, that sounds peaceful.

MAGAts.

With your logic. When Obama said bring a gun to a knife fight, he is directly responsible for all gun murders during his time.
But back to reality. There is a reason trump has not, and will never be, charged with any connection to the break in on 1/6. Because he was not responsible. But you can continue to live fantasy world, and blame trump for everything wrong in your life. Doesn’t impact anyone, but you

Thanks Jumbo Shrimp.

No problem Shirley

[Typical Lax Dad]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

“If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore."

Yeah, that sounds peaceful.

MAGAts.

With your logic. When Obama said bring a gun to a knife fight, he is directly responsible for all gun murders during his time.
But back to reality. There is a reason trump has not, and will never be, charged with any connection to the break in on 1/6. Because he was not responsible. But you can continue to live fantasy world, and blame trump for everything wrong in your life. Doesn’t impact anyone, but you

Thanks Jumbo Shrimp.

No problem Shirley

[Jumbo]

Jumbo - seeing that this is the topic of this thread - do give us your take on January 6. We''ll await your response. Thanks.

I just addressed this a few replies ago.

Looks like my reply was deleted. Not seeing it.

My views on 1/6. I think a protest blown out of proportion. It turned into a political witch-hunt. The fbi has already admitted it was not an insurrection. The dems 1/6 investigation was a joke. They clearly were not looking for information. They were just trying to prevent trump from running again and trying to scare anyone from associating with him. I think 1/6 was a protest that had a few bad apples. Anyone that broke doors or windows at the capital should be held accountable and arrested. Anyone that walked in open doors or was invited in, should not be punished. The same as the several times dems have protested inside the capital or other gov buildings and were not arrested. There has to be equal treatment or people will see this as a political punishment
I find it funny that people took trumps quote “walk to the capital and peacefully protest” as code for break doors and windows.


I am hoping the gop will start a new investigation with new hearings to find real answers. Who were the people on camera trying to incite violence and encourage people to break in? Why haven’t they been questioned.
Why didn’t the committee want video released? Why didn’t the committee release video of the person that planes the pipe bombs at the dnc and gop headquarters. Lots of questions.

“If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore."

Yeah, that sounds peaceful.

MAGAts.

With your logic. When Obama said bring a gun to a knife fight, he is directly responsible for all gun murders during his time.
But back to reality. There is a reason trump has not, and will never be, charged with any connection to the break in on 1/6. Because he was not responsible. But you can continue to live fantasy world, and blame trump for everything wrong in your life. Doesn’t impact anyone, but you

Can we pin this one for future review?

I haven't read a single poster claiming that Trump is to "blame" for "everything in your (their) life".
Not one.
I wonder why this projection makes sense to you, Jumbo.

"a protest blown out of proportion"...where's that citation re FBI and "insurrection"???

Not hard to find. Just turn off msnbc for a few mins and do a little searching.