Our Undeclared Wars

[LandM]

C&S - the ceremony was damn moving - best part and somehow I keep coming to the defense - the President let his teammates come up and hug him and then he exited right so they could celebrate (not the right word) what just happened - very moving and I give DT allot of credit for what he did. Hopefully giving credit does not make me a Trumpster

[MDlaxfan76]

C&S - the ceremony was damn moving - best part and somehow I keep coming to the defense - the President let his teammates come up and hug him and then he exited right so they could celebrate (not the right word) what just happened - very moving and I give DT allot of credit for what he did. Hopefully giving credit does not make me a Trumpster

I missed this ceremony so can't speak to it other than my assumption that the honor was fully deserved, and such honors deserve immense respect and gratitude. Sounds like it was indeed quite moving.

However, the brief Washington Examiner article Cradle linked indicated that he'd been previously honored with a Silver Star for actions in 2004.

Help me out here, cradle or tech, why did Trump now elevate this to a Medal of Honor?

I confess that I do find Trump in these very serious moments, performing these particular duties of POTUS, to be the height of hypocrisy.

[MDlaxfan76]

Imagine that.

Iran said the drone initially operated in stealth mode immediately after takeoff from it's base in the SW of the UAE.
That's being interpreted as meaning the US controllers did not immediately turn on the drone's IFF transponder.

The RQ-4 is not a "stealthy" aircraft. It is a large radar target, with limited mobility, designed to operate at very high altitudes, well above civilian air traffic. The Naval version has stronger wings which allow it to rapidly descend to get closer imagery of a target, if necessary.

There are multiple nation's civil air traffic control facilities in the area which should have radar tapes which would include the drones flight path.
Russia would not be one of them.

Maybe we'll get a "show & tell" at the NATO conf or G-20, after showing it to potential convoy coalition partners.

I don't necessarily believe the Russians or the Iranians or the Americans. I have said it before, from the stand point of how this plays out in the future it really doesn't matter. What I find interesting is the Russians sticking their nose in!

It matters greatly in gathering support from other nations.

Good luck with getting support beyond lip service on anything related to Iran from anyone other than the right-wing Israelis, Saudis, etc. No one trusts this Administration nor should they. Not only does our Commander-in-Chief lie with regularity, he claims our intelligence can't be trusted, and it's clear that whatever he says today is open to entirely different self-interpretation tomorrow. Day trader and a bad one.

International Maritime Security
India's already sending 2 warships to the region. The Brits already have a frigate in the Gulf & they're sending 100 Marines to ride on Brit owned ships.
It's not a matter of supporting the US. It's to protect their nation's ships & oil supply.
It's worth it to them just to keep down insurance costs.
The Japanese, S Koreans & Chinese could send Marines as ship riders as the Brits are doing.
The Aussies & Singapore have been sending warships & commanded CTF 150.

Sure, there will be support for keeping the sea lanes open, without war.
As you say, "It's not a matter of supporting the US."
Are they going to bomb Iran, invade Iran with us, "obliterate" Iran with us?

[OCanada]

Sending warships is for appearances and a way to curry favor

[jhu72]

This certainly helps explain why so many here seem to think that dropping out of the deal with Iran made perfect sense. And why I'm having such a difficult time understanding some of the views here.

This line of thinking is simply beyond my comprehension. And I wouldn't care so much, except it's clear to me that folks who think like this have access to our nuclear arsenal.


The survey of 3,000 Americans was conducted by the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists and British research firm YouGov (edit--a conservative British Pollster), and asked people to consider a scenario in which North Korea had tested a long-range missile and the U.S. government was considering how to respond.

“For many of these hawks, support for an attack, even in a preventive war, does not significantly decrease when the story says that the United States would use nuclear weapons that are expected to kill 1 million North Korean civilians,” the report found.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/on ... a4362ed2bb

… it's a lizard brain thing.

[jhu72]

C&S - the ceremony was damn moving - best part and somehow I keep coming to the defense - the President let his teammates come up and hug him and then he exited right so they could celebrate (not the right word) what just happened - very moving and I give DT allot of credit for what he did. Hopefully giving credit does not make me a Trumpster

I found it disrespectful and sonically annoying, turned the sound off. Somehow a scum bag presenting the award just doesn't seem as high an honor as deserved.

[jhu72]

C&S - the ceremony was damn moving - best part and somehow I keep coming to the defense - the President let his teammates come up and hug him and then he exited right so they could celebrate (not the right word) what just happened - very moving and I give DT allot of credit for what he did. Hopefully giving credit does not make me a Trumpster

I missed this ceremony so can't speak to it other than my assumption that the honor was fully deserved, and such honors deserve immense respect and gratitude. Sounds like it was indeed quite moving.

However, the brief Washington Examiner article Cradle linked indicated that he'd been previously honored with a Silver Star for actions in 2004.

Help me out here, cradle or tech, why did Trump now elevate this to a Medal of Honor?

I confess that I do find Trump in these very serious moments, performing these particular duties of POTUS, to be the height of hypocrisy.

Don't think Trump initiated this. Military review board did it. Trump never misses an opportunity to wrap himself in the flag.

[DMac]

C&S - the ceremony was damn moving - best part and somehow I keep coming to the defense - the President let his teammates come up and hug him and then he exited right so they could celebrate (not the right word) what just happened - very moving and I give DT allot of credit for what he did. Hopefully giving credit does not make me a Trumpster

I found it disrespectful and sonically annoying, turned the sound off. Somehow a scum bag presenting the award just doesn't seem as high an honor as deserved.

I've felt this way since the first time I saw this blowhard chump give one of these warriors an award, it just feels wrong (to me) and as if he doesn't deserve to be in the same company of these types. Even his D Day speech felt as if it was coming from the wrong person. Sure, the words were right but it just felt like an act to me....kinda like his bone spurs show.
In case anyone hasn't seen this, I think it's pretty darn cool....what are the odds?
(I think the old timer had a room and some Viagra on his mind...just sayin')
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjpGzuLJCS0

[cradleandshoot]

A quick timeout here. A very emotional for this old soldier ceremony going on in the rose garden. Staff Sgt. David Bellavia is being awarded his Medal of Honor for his heroism during the second battle of Fallujah. You want to see a real hero... look up his MOH citation. Thank you Staff... you did what you had to do to save your squad members. I am proud again to have been a US Army infantryman. Staff... I salute you.

None of you people have a single thing to say about this... shame on every damn one of you. Go back to your nonsense conversations and ignore a real American hero. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... d-bellavia

Why should anyone respond to those who dont respond back?

Sometimes no response is worthy. I was able to get no further in your post than Pompaeo is a liar. What I posted was the letter the lady wrote to Mike Pompaeo trying to explain and admitting the thing agreed to with Obama was an unsigned document. I will agree that this thing Obama fought so hard for was based on good intentions and hopeful it might be a start. The problem is Obama did not have enough faith in it to convince the US Senate to ratify it. The other side of the coin the Iranian leaders never signed the finished deal either. This is the end result of a half ass attempt to solve a very complex and dicey problem. Should Trump have backed out of it. No he should not have. That was not and never has been my point. My point is the agreement was FUBAR from the very start. The Iranians got everything they wanted and then some. None of the progress the Iranians have made on their nuke program was rolled back at all. It is just on hiatus until this unsigned document rides off into the sunset. I understand why some of you think this temporary reprieve is a good thing. It doesn't solve the ongoing situation that was not resolved. The thing Iran has to do is be patient and work harder on their on going program for launching long range missiles. That should not be disconcerting to anyone... should it?

[cradleandshoot]

C&S - the ceremony was damn moving - best part and somehow I keep coming to the defense - the President let his teammates come up and hug him and then he exited right so they could celebrate (not the right word) what just happened - very moving and I give DT allot of credit for what he did. Hopefully giving credit does not make me a Trumpster

I missed this ceremony so can't speak to it other than my assumption that the honor was fully deserved, and such honors deserve immense respect and gratitude. Sounds like it was indeed quite moving.

However, the brief Washington Examiner article Cradle linked indicated that he'd been previously honored with a Silver Star for actions in 2004.

Help me out here, cradle or tech, why did Trump now elevate this to a Medal of Honor?

I confess that I do find Trump in these very serious moments, performing these particular duties of POTUS, to be the height of hypocrisy.

The MOH process involves a long and complex chain of command jump thru hoops sort of deal. Here in Upstate NY Staff Sgt Bellavia's heroism has been known for many years. The last step in the process is approval by the POTUS. This time around it was Trumps turn for the photo op. I am certain that if it had been HRC awarding him the medal there would be many people on the other side with the same sentiments. IMO whomever the POTUS is awarding the medal it should not take away from the bravery of this soldier. If you have not read the citation of why the Staff Sgt was awarded the medal it is worth reading. It does not glamorize war. It tells the story of uncommon valor and a soldiers love for his men.

[seacoaster]

"IMO whomever the POTUS is awarding the medal it should not take away from the bravery of this soldier."

I think we all agree about that. I think MDLax is simply saying that there is an uncomfortable incongruity placing Trump in the position of being the ceremonial chief for an award to a man so, so, so much the President's superior.

[foreverlax]

A quick timeout here. A very emotional for this old soldier ceremony going on in the rose garden. Staff Sgt. David Bellavia is being awarded his Medal of Honor for his heroism during the second battle of Fallujah. You want to see a real hero... look up his MOH citation. Thank you Staff... you did what you had to do to save your squad members. I am proud again to have been a US Army infantryman. Staff... I salute you.

None of you people have a single thing to say about this... shame on every damn one of you. Go back to your nonsense conversations and ignore a real American hero. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... d-bellavia

Why should anyone respond to those who dont respond back?

Sometimes no response is worthy. I was able to get no further in your post than Pompaeo is a liar. What I posted was the letter the lady wrote to Mike Pompaeo trying to explain and admitting the thing agreed to with Obama was an unsigned document. I will agree that this thing Obama fought so hard for was based on good intentions and hopeful it might be a start. The problem is Obama did not have enough faith in it to convince the US Senate to ratify it. The other side of the coin the Iranian leaders never signed the finished deal either. This is the end result of a half ass attempt to solve a very complex and dicey problem. Should Trump have backed out of it. No he should not have. That was not and never has been my point. My point is the agreement was FUBAR from the very start. The Iranians got everything they wanted and then some. None of the progress the Iranians have made on their nuke program was rolled back at all. It is just on hiatus until this unsigned document rides off into the sunset. I understand why some of you think this temporary reprieve is a good thing. It doesn't solve the ongoing situation that was not resolved. The thing Iran has to do is be patient and work harder on their on going program for launching long range missiles. That should not be disconcerting to anyone... should it?

Here is what I posted and what I asked....

"I have no trust in the present leadership in Iran"....Serious question - does that imply you trust the US leadership?

[cradleandshoot]

"IMO whomever the POTUS is awarding the medal it should not take away from the bravery of this soldier."

I think we all agree about that. I think MDLax is simply saying that there is an uncomfortable incongruity placing Trump in the position of being the ceremonial chief for an award to a man so, so, so much the President's superior.

I don't disagree one bit. I don't think Trump is worthy of being in the same room with him. In the end Trump approved the medal and he wins the photo op. I wonder why the person being awarded the medal doesn't have the choice as to who presents it to them? That would make sense to me.

[seacoaster]

"IMO whomever the POTUS is awarding the medal it should not take away from the bravery of this soldier."

I think we all agree about that. I think MDLax is simply saying that there is an uncomfortable incongruity placing Trump in the position of being the ceremonial chief for an award to a man so, so, so much the President's superior.

I don't disagree one bit. I don't think Trump is worthy of being in the same room with him. In the end Trump approved the medal and he wins the photo op. I wonder why the person being awarded the medal doesn't have the choice as to who presents it to them? That would make sense to me.

Hard to disagree with you. But he's the Commander-in-Chief, and I doubt this gentleman would exclude a sitting President on that basis, and out of respect for the Office, which may, just maybe, return to someone who is a good family man, loves his/her wife/husband, cares for people, isn't constantly working the angles of policy decisions to appease his "base," and makes us at least a little bit proud of the country handed to us and preserved by warriors like Staff Sgt. Bellavia.

[cradleandshoot]

A quick timeout here. A very emotional for this old soldier ceremony going on in the rose garden. Staff Sgt. David Bellavia is being awarded his Medal of Honor for his heroism during the second battle of Fallujah. You want to see a real hero... look up his MOH citation. Thank you Staff... you did what you had to do to save your squad members. I am proud again to have been a US Army infantryman. Staff... I salute you.

None of you people have a single thing to say about this... shame on every damn one of you. Go back to your nonsense conversations and ignore a real American hero. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... d-bellavia

Why should anyone respond to those who dont respond back?

Sometimes no response is worthy. I was able to get no further in your post than Pompaeo is a liar. What I posted was the letter the lady wrote to Mike Pompaeo trying to explain and admitting the thing agreed to with Obama was an unsigned document. I will agree that this thing Obama fought so hard for was based on good intentions and hopeful it might be a start. The problem is Obama did not have enough faith in it to convince the US Senate to ratify it. The other side of the coin the Iranian leaders never signed the finished deal either. This is the end result of a half ass attempt to solve a very complex and dicey problem. Should Trump have backed out of it. No he should not have. That was not and never has been my point. My point is the agreement was FUBAR from the very start. The Iranians got everything they wanted and then some. None of the progress the Iranians have made on their nuke program was rolled back at all. It is just on hiatus until this unsigned document rides off into the sunset. I understand why some of you think this temporary reprieve is a good thing. It doesn't solve the ongoing situation that was not resolved. The thing Iran has to do is be patient and work harder on their on going program for launching long range missiles. That should not be disconcerting to anyone... should it?

Here is what I posted and what I asked....

"I have no trust in the present leadership in Iran"....Serious question - does that imply you trust the US leadership?

A fair question. My reply is that I use to but I have not trusted US leadership for a long time. I think there are some good people of both parties trying to do their best. The down right anger and hostility both parties have towards one another makes trustworthy and responsible leadership an impossibility at present.

[cradleandshoot]

"IMO whomever the POTUS is awarding the medal it should not take away from the bravery of this soldier."

I think we all agree about that. I think MDLax is simply saying that there is an uncomfortable incongruity placing Trump in the position of being the ceremonial chief for an award to a man so, so, so much the President's superior.

I don't disagree one bit. I don't think Trump is worthy of being in the same room with him. In the end Trump approved the medal and he wins the photo op. I wonder why the person being awarded the medal doesn't have the choice as to who presents it to them? That would make sense to me.

Hard to disagree with you. But he's the Commander-in-Chief, and I doubt this gentleman would exclude a sitting President on that basis, and out of respect for the Office, which may, just maybe, return to someone who is a good family man, loves his/her wife/husband, cares for people, isn't constantly working the angles of policy decisions to appease his "base," and makes us at least a little bit proud of the country handed to us and preserved by warriors like Staff Sgt. Bellavia.

You are 100% correct. Any good soldier respects the commander in chief even if he or she personally can't stand them. Unfortunately politics and photo ops take away from what is really important.

[foreverlax]

A quick timeout here. A very emotional for this old soldier ceremony going on in the rose garden. Staff Sgt. David Bellavia is being awarded his Medal of Honor for his heroism during the second battle of Fallujah. You want to see a real hero... look up his MOH citation. Thank you Staff... you did what you had to do to save your squad members. I am proud again to have been a US Army infantryman. Staff... I salute you.

None of you people have a single thing to say about this... shame on every damn one of you. Go back to your nonsense conversations and ignore a real American hero. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... d-bellavia

Why should anyone respond to those who dont respond back?

Sometimes no response is worthy. I was able to get no further in your post than Pompaeo is a liar. What I posted was the letter the lady wrote to Mike Pompaeo trying to explain and admitting the thing agreed to with Obama was an unsigned document. I will agree that this thing Obama fought so hard for was based on good intentions and hopeful it might be a start. The problem is Obama did not have enough faith in it to convince the US Senate to ratify it. The other side of the coin the Iranian leaders never signed the finished deal either. This is the end result of a half ass attempt to solve a very complex and dicey problem. Should Trump have backed out of it. No he should not have. That was not and never has been my point. My point is the agreement was FUBAR from the very start. The Iranians got everything they wanted and then some. None of the progress the Iranians have made on their nuke program was rolled back at all. It is just on hiatus until this unsigned document rides off into the sunset. I understand why some of you think this temporary reprieve is a good thing. It doesn't solve the ongoing situation that was not resolved. The thing Iran has to do is be patient and work harder on their on going program for launching long range missiles. That should not be disconcerting to anyone... should it?

Here is what I posted and what I asked....

"I have no trust in the present leadership in Iran"....Serious question - does that imply you trust the US leadership?

A fair question. My reply is that I use to but I have not trusted US leadership for a long time. I think there are some good people of both parties trying to do their best. The down right anger and hostility both parties have towards one another makes trustworthy and responsible leadership an impossibility at present.

Agreed.

[LandM]

you guys are brutal - damn Daniel. The guy does an amazing thing and is awarded the MoH; his family is invited up to join him; then his teammates are invited to join him and while he is hugging and kissing his teammates the orange guy exists right - give him credit for that - jeez man - wow - this is part of the problem we have, everyone on one side hates everything that the other side does - let's try getting along and also respect if someone does a nice gesture even though you hate the guy give him a shout-out - wo Nellie

[jhu72]

you guys are brutal - damn Daniel. The guy does an amazing thing and is awarded the MoH; his family is invited up to join him; then his teammates are invited to join him and while he is hugging and kissing his teammates the orange guy exists right - give him credit for that - jeez man - wow - this is part of the problem we have, everyone on one side hates everything that the other side does - let's try getting along and also respect if someone does a nice gesture even though you hate the guy give him a shout-out - wo Nellie

No, the Orange guy tries to make it about him, trying to share the glory. It's a game show.

[a fan]

The MOH process involves a long and complex chain of command jump thru hoops sort of deal. Here in Upstate NY Staff Sgt Bellavia's heroism has been known for many years. The last step in the process is approval by the POTUS. This time around it was Trumps turn for the photo op. I am certain that if it had been HRC awarding him the medal there would be many people on the other side with the same sentiments. IMO whomever the POTUS is awarding the medal it should not take away from the bravery of this soldier.

I despise Trump. But if he awarded me a medal, the I'd be honored to let him hand it to me/pin it on me/whatever. I'd be blown away by the honor.

Respect the office, not the man. This goes for visits to the White House, too. I'd accept an invitation without hesitation, and be proud to shake Trump's hand.

If you have not read the citation of why the Staff Sgt was awarded the medal it is worth reading. It does not glamorize war. It tells the story of uncommon valor and a soldiers love for his men.

Read the story, and watched the ceremony. Amazing. Can't imagine being in that situation, let alone having to react to it.