2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[foreverlax]

Nobody's picking on Mayor Pete, so he's picking a fight with Pence so he can be the aggrieved party.

Trying way too hard.

Did you watch the video, or read the various quotes? The only one trying too hard to make this a big deal is you.

Yes I watched. It was a gratuitous attack on Pence who has never mentioned Pete's sexuality or marriage choice.So you are giving Pence a pass for his anti-homosexual views, because he didn't cast them directly at Mayor Pete. Why?
What you call "ant-homosexual views" are Pence's consistent religious beliefs. His views are his views...which is can have all day long. What he can't have, are alternative facts, regarding this issue.
Had Pence initiated the debate, I'd agree with your characterization. Pence started this debate ages ago....who he is debating, imo, is irrelevant.
You asked about Pete. You keep making it about Pence, who did not engage Pete.
Keep setting up strawman windmills to joust.
Based on yesterday's speech, it looks like Pete realized the downside of attacking Pence & didn't do it again.

It undermines his "live & let live" image by dragging Pence into a debate.
Which will lose him some Trump voters he could win.For those in the #ABT camp, the Mayor will be fine
He's already got their votes just by letting his lifestyle speak for him. If he stay's with his previous "live & let live" message, he'll pick up a lot of Trump voters who aren't there because they agree with Pence on this issue.
Until he dragged Pence into it, I admired the way he handled the issue.
Now, he's playing the victim, using Pence as a strawman persecutor.

I was liking him a lot, until he pulled this stunt.
Makes me wonder if he's really any different than his fellow (D) wannabe victims.

#ATD

[old salt]

What's #ADT ? If JD Vance supports Pete, you'll know he can get the #ABT (anybody but Trump) vote.

[a fan]

Makes me wonder if he's really any different than his fellow (D) wannabe victims.

Like the "war on Christmas" or the "war on conservatives?"

Did you know how mean professors are to conservatives in colleges around our nation? FoxNations sez they're super mean.

Did you also know how mean the media is to Trump? Poor guy.

[old salt]

Makes me wonder if he's really any different than his fellow (D) wannabe victims.

Like the "war on Christmas" or the "war on conservatives?"

Did you know how mean professors are to conservatives in colleges around our nation? FoxNations sez they're super mean.

Did you also know how mean the media is to Trump? Poor guy.

I mean the Trump voters & FNC viewers who could vote for him --
if he stays on the high road, doesn't play the victim, & doesn't start wedding cake battles.

Stick with the pics in combat gear from outside the wire & it becomes a non-issue.

[jhu72]

Mayor Pete is a blooming genius! His fight with Pence is inspired. It points up the weakness in Pence's Christianity and at the same time those who support Trump but consider him #665.5 are shown a democratic candidate they can relate to. Only Christians who are anti-gay, a demographic no democrat will ever get (nor wants) is going to have a problem with Mayor Pete. There are Evangelicals who are not anti-gay who voted for Trump (as opposed to Hillary) who could be won back by Mayer Pete and his socialism lite coupled with his true Christianity.

[old salt]

There are Evangelicals who are not anti-gay who voted for Trump (as opposed to Hillary) who could be won back by Mayer Pete and his socialism lite coupled with his true Christianity.

...& there's no need to attack Pence to attract those voters. By virtue of the fact they're not anti-gay, they are tolerant, & they don't welcome intolerance to Pences's beliefs or to Pete's beliefs.

Pete didn't make his attack on Pence before a national audience.
Let's see if he renews the strategy & before what audience.

[a fan]

I mean the Trump voters & FNC viewers who could vote for him --
if he stays on the high road, doesn't play the victim, & doesn't start wedding cake battles.

Stick with the pics in combat gear from outside the wire & it becomes a non-issue.

Trump voters, sure. FNC viewers? Lost cause, and then some.

People are actively trying to take rights away from him and/or maintain laws that stick it to him.

You can't get upset when he brings that up.....unless you think his rights don't matter.

[foreverlax]

What's #ADT ? If JD Vance supports Pete, you'll know he can get the #ABT (anybody but Trump) vote.

Agree to disagree

[jhu72]

There are Evangelicals who are not anti-gay who voted for Trump (as opposed to Hillary) who could be won back by Mayer Pete and his socialism lite coupled with his true Christianity.

...& there's no need to attack Pence to attract those voters. By virtue of the fact they're not anti-gay, they are tolerant, & they don't welcome intolerance to Pences's beliefs or to Pete's beliefs.

Pete didn't make his attack on Pence before a national audience.
Let's see if he renews the strategy & before what audience.

Sure there is - get the Faux News crowd to notice. By taking on Pence the Mayor is guaranteed eyeballs. Democratic Christianity vs Trumpnista Christianity. Excellent tactical move.

[old salt]

FNC viewers? Lost cause, and then some.
You can't get upset when he brings that up.....unless you think his rights don't matter.

Lost cause ? That's why Bernie's holding a town hall on FNC.

Pete's rights are not being infringed upon?
Did Pence refuse to sell him a wedding cake ?

I'm not upset. I'm still trying to figure Pete out & learn more about him.
A lot I've seen about him, so far, I like. He does not need to play the gay victim.
I just think it will hurt him more than it helps him in a campaign for national office.

[a fan]

A lot I've seen about him, so far, I like. He does not need to play the gay victim.
I just think it will hurt him more than it helps him in a campaign for national office.

I didn't mean to direct the term "upset" at you.....just a general comment.

And again, that's just your interpretation when you say "play the gay victim". That's not how it reads to me. People are actively trying to take his rights away. That's a reality, not some made up victimhood.

You are certainly right to point out that many voters will view it as victimhood. But I'm not sure how it is you think guys like Buttigieg are going to retain their civil rights by remaining silent..

Bernie is holding a town hall on FNC because they asked, not because he's going to get votes from it.

[MDlaxfan76]

FNC viewers? Lost cause, and then some.
You can't get upset when he brings that up.....unless you think his rights don't matter.

Lost cause ? That's why Bernie's holding a town hall on FNC.

Pete's rights are not being infringed upon?
Did Pence refuse to sell him a wedding cake ?

I'm not upset. I'm still trying to figure Pete out & learn more about him.
A lot I've seen about him, so far, I like. He does not need to play the gay victim.
I just think it will hurt him more than it helps him in a campaign for national office.

Salty, you keep defending Pence as if he's actually worthy of defense on this issue.

So what if he has religious views? No one's sweating his religious views.
It's not his views that restrict the rights of others, it's his politics.
He has a long history of working against gay rights.

Note, Pence is a politician with a history.
Talk about 'victimhood', can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

What I really liked about how Mayor Pete went at this issue was the positivism, the lack of victimhood, the embrace of who he is and how he sees the world. He did it in all sorts of ways, making clear the distinction between how he sees the world and how Trump and Pence see the world.

On this particular issue, Pence has made it about 'religion', ''his religious views', as if that somehow makes it perfectly fine to discriminate, not just in one's own preferences, but in setting policies for others. Anyone gay living in Indiana knew that Pence was an enemy of their aspirations, indeed that's why he was picked to run as VP, to try to prove to the evangelical right that Trump would be with them on policy, on judges, etc.

Mayor Pete knows darn well that there's a slice of America who will never vote for him because he's gay, but he also knows there's a slice right next to them who may be among the persuadable. These folks have a relatively unconscious bias that, if unaddressed, will leave them in the camp not voting for him. But by tackling it right up front, surfacing it right now, it has a chance of being a non-issue to those persuadable folks down the stretch.

And it sends a message to the Dems that he's going to be able to make these contrasts with Trump/Pence in a positive way.

[MDlaxfan76]

There are Evangelicals who are not anti-gay who voted for Trump (as opposed to Hillary) who could be won back by Mayer Pete and his socialism lite coupled with his true Christianity.

...& there's no need to attack Pence to attract those voters. By virtue of the fact they're not anti-gay, they are tolerant, & they don't welcome intolerance to Pences's beliefs or to Pete's beliefs.

Pete didn't make his attack on Pence before a national audience.
Let's see if he renews the strategy & before what audience.

Sure there is - get the Faux News crowd to notice. By taking on Pence the Mayor is guaranteed eyeballs. Democratic Christianity vs Trumpnista Christianity. Excellent tactical move.

I agree. (Not sure I'd call it "Democratic Christianity" but I get your point about offering a positive alternative to people of faith)

Especially for younger, religious voters, whether evangelical or traditional denominations.

There's a surprisingly (to some) large group of young evangelicals who see these sorts of issues very differently than their elders. The 'what would Jesus do?' question gets answered quite differently.

There's probably no social issue in American history that has seen such dramatic change than that of gay rights over the past two decades. And its penetrating every corner of America, as more and more people have friends and family members in loving, faithful same-sex relationships.

[old salt]

FNC viewers? Lost cause, and then some.
You can't get upset when he brings that up.....unless you think his rights don't matter.

Lost cause ? That's why Bernie's holding a town hall on FNC.

Pete's rights are not being infringed upon?
Did Pence refuse to sell him a wedding cake ?

I'm not upset. I'm still trying to figure Pete out & learn more about him.
A lot I've seen about him, so far, I like. He does not need to play the gay victim.
I just think it will hurt him more than it helps him in a campaign for national office.

Salty, you keep defending Pence as if he's actually worthy of defense on this issue.

So what if he has religious views? No one's sweating his religious views.
It's not his views that restrict the rights of others, it's his politics.
He has a long history of working against gay rights.

Note, Pence is a politician with a history.
Talk about 'victimhood', can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

What I really liked about how Mayor Pete went at this issue was the positivism, the lack of victimhood, the embrace of who he is and how he sees the world. He did it in all sorts of ways, making clear the distinction between how he sees the world and how Trump and Pence see the world.

On this particular issue, Pence has made it about 'religion', ''his religious views', as if that somehow makes it perfectly fine to discriminate, not just in one's own preferences, but in setting policies for others. Anyone gay living in Indiana knew that Pence was an enemy of their aspirations, indeed that's why he was picked to run as VP, to try to prove to the evangelical right that Trump would be with them on policy, on judges, etc.

Mayor Pete knows darn well that there's a slice of America who will never vote for him because he's gay, but he also knows there's a slice right next to them who may be among the persuadable. These folks have a relatively unconscious bias that, if unaddressed, will leave them in the camp not voting for him. But by tackling it right up front, surfacing it right now, it has a chance of being a non-issue to those persuadable folks down the stretch.

And it sends a message to the Dems that he's going to be able to make these contrasts with Trump/Pence in a positive way.

Blah, blah, blah. Save a lot of bandwidth & show us where Pence ever criticized Pete for his sexuality, marriage, or religion.
I'm not defending Pence. I'm calling it as I see it. This disappoints me & diminishes Pete in my eyes. He doesn't need to play the victim.

Like Pete, you're just trying to pick a fight, so you can virtue signal & show us how enlightened you are.
Pence is not discriminating. Marriage is social compact defined by law.
Pence has his own religious views. The First Amendment still applies.
Pence publicly praised Pete when he came out in 2015.

This is a stunt. Pete needs to call out Obama & the Clintons too.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... -marriage/
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... -marriage/

[foreverlax]

"Playing the victim".

Pete isn't playing anything....calling it like it is.

Poor Pence - his 17th century views, comments and actions are finally being called out.

[dislaxxic]

Trump Gets His First Official GOP Challenger With Bill Weld Announcement

A legitimate challenger...

..

[MDlaxfan76]

FNC viewers? Lost cause, and then some.
You can't get upset when he brings that up.....unless you think his rights don't matter.

Lost cause ? That's why Bernie's holding a town hall on FNC.

Pete's rights are not being infringed upon?
Did Pence refuse to sell him a wedding cake ?

I'm not upset. I'm still trying to figure Pete out & learn more about him.
A lot I've seen about him, so far, I like. He does not need to play the gay victim.
I just think it will hurt him more than it helps him in a campaign for national office.

Salty, you keep defending Pence as if he's actually worthy of defense on this issue.

So what if he has religious views? No one's sweating his religious views.
It's not his views that restrict the rights of others, it's his politics.
He has a long history of working against gay rights.

Note, Pence is a politician with a history.
Talk about 'victimhood', can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

What I really liked about how Mayor Pete went at this issue was the positivism, the lack of victimhood, the embrace of who he is and how he sees the world. He did it in all sorts of ways, making clear the distinction between how he sees the world and how Trump and Pence see the world.

On this particular issue, Pence has made it about 'religion', ''his religious views', as if that somehow makes it perfectly fine to discriminate, not just in one's own preferences, but in setting policies for others. Anyone gay living in Indiana knew that Pence was an enemy of their aspirations, indeed that's why he was picked to run as VP, to try to prove to the evangelical right that Trump would be with them on policy, on judges, etc.

Mayor Pete knows darn well that there's a slice of America who will never vote for him because he's gay, but he also knows there's a slice right next to them who may be among the persuadable. These folks have a relatively unconscious bias that, if unaddressed, will leave them in the camp not voting for him. But by tackling it right up front, surfacing it right now, it has a chance of being a non-issue to those persuadable folks down the stretch.

And it sends a message to the Dems that he's going to be able to make these contrasts with Trump/Pence in a positive way.

Blah, blah, blah. Save a lot of bandwidth & show us where Pence ever criticized Pete for his sexuality, marriage, or religion.
I'm not defending Pence. I'm calling it as I see it. This disappoints me & diminishes Pete in my eyes. He doesn't need to play the victim.

Like Pete, you're just trying to pick a fight, so you can virtue signal & show us how enlightened you are.
Pence is not discriminating. Marriage is social compact defined by law.
Pence has his own religious views. The First Amendment still applies.
Pence publicly praised Pete when he came out in 2015.

This is a stunt. Pete needs to call out Obama & the Clintons too.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... -marriage/
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... -marriage/

I guess it really isn't a surprise that you're stubbornly taking this position.

You ignore each poster who tells you it has nothing to do with Pence attacking Mayor Pete individually.

Nor does it really have anything to do with Pence's personal religious beliefs.

It has to do with the policies and legal actions he has pursued consistently across his career in opposition to gay rights. Those are attacks on all those who seek to love who they wish and be protected by the state from those who would discriminate against them.

Pence is a politician with views and policies TODAY that Mayor Pete is calling out. When Pence calls these views just his personal religious beliefs, this is flat out BS...he's acting on them as a politician. So, Pete is going directly at those religious beliefs, claimed as "Christian" and saying , no, there's another way, a better way, to be 'Christian'.

But as far as you're concerned, Pence is the 'victim' in this.

But, nah, you really are a Trumpist, all things Trumpian must be defended.

[old salt]

.. I'm sure you'd be as critical of Pence & his religious beliefs if he were a Muslim rather than an Evangelical Christian.

[foreverlax]

.. I'm sure you'd be as critical of Pence & his religious beliefs if he were a Muslim rather than an Evangelical Christian.

Would you be backing a Muslim in the same manner you are propping up Pence? haha.

Pence has made his views on gays serving in the miliatry and DADT...

In 2010, Pence told CNN he did not want to see the military become “a backdrop for social experimentation.”

[a fan]

This is a stunt. Pete needs to call out Obama & the Clintons too.

What for? They have no power. Pence does. He's still in office.

Btw, this is yet another marker that tells you that Obama and Clinton weren't libs.

We're going to disagree here. There are real legislators working right now, today, to take rights away from....well, anyone but them. This isn't a made up issue, as you are suggesting.