Page 23 of 92

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:47 am
by DocBarrister
CU88 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:10 am August 26, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
Aug 27

In Afghanistan today, two explosions outside the Kabul airport killed at least 60 Afghan civilians and 13 U.S. troops. More than 100 Afghans and 15 U.S. service members were wounded.

ISIS-K, the Islamic State Khorasan, claimed responsibility for the attack. ISIS-K is an extremist offshoot of the Taliban organized in Pakistan about six years ago by younger men who think the older leaders of the Taliban now in control of Afghanistan are too moderate. The ISIS-K leaders want to destabilize the Taliban’s apparent assumption of the country’s leadership after the collapse of the Afghan government.

The Taliban joined governments around the world in condemning the attack, illustrating their interest in being welcomed into the larger international sphere rather than continuing to be perceived as violent outsiders. Increasingly, it seems their sweep into power surprised them as much as anyone, and they are now faced with pulling together warring factions without the hatred of occupying U.S. troops to glue them together.

Taliban leaders continue to talk with former leaders of the U.S.-backed Afghan government to figure out how to govern the country. Western aid, on which the country relies, will depend on the Taliban’s acceptance of basic human rights, including the education of its girls, and its refusal to permit terrorists to use the country as a staging ground.

The attack was horrific but not a surprise. Last night, the U.S. State Department warned of specific security threats and urged U.S. citizens to leave the area around the airport immediately.

Later in the day, observers reported explosions near the airport. Paul Szoldra, editor-in-chief of Task and Purpose, tweeted that he had heard from a source that the explosions were controlled demolitions as U.S. troops destroyed equipment.

Tonight, President Joe Biden held a press conference honoring the dead as “part of the bravest, most capable, and the most selfless military on the face of the Earth.” He told the terrorists that “[w]e will hunt you down and make you pay,” but on our terms, not theirs. “I will defend our interests and our people with every measure at my command,” he said.

Despite the attacks, the airlift continues. Today, General Kenneth F. McKenzie Jr., commander of United States Central Command, said that more than 104,000 people have been evacuated from the airport, including 5000 U.S. citizens.

I confess to being knocked off-keel by the Republican reaction to the Kabul bombing.

The roots of the U.S. withdrawal from its 20 years in Afghanistan were planted in February 2020, when the Trump administration cut a deal with the Taliban agreeing to release 5000 imprisoned Taliban fighters and to leave the country by May 1, 2021, so long as the Taliban did not kill any more Americans. The negotiations did not include the U.S.-backed Afghan government. By the time Biden took office, the U.S. had withdrawn all but 2500 troops from the country.

That left Biden with the option either to go back on Trump’s agreement or to follow through. To ignore the agreement would mean the Taliban would again begin attacking U.S. service people, and the U.S. would both have to pour in significant numbers of troops and sustain casualties. And Biden himself wanted out of what had become a meandering, expensive, unpopular war.

On April 14, 2021, three months after taking office, Biden said he would honor the agreement he had inherited from Trump. “It is perhaps not what I would have negotiated myself,” he said, “but it was an agreement made by the United States government, and that means something.” He said that the original U.S. mission had been to stop Afghanistan from becoming a staging ground for terrorists and to destroy those who had attacked the United States on 9-11, and both of those goals had been accomplished. Now, he said, “our reasons for remaining in Afghanistan are becoming increasingly unclear.”

Biden said he would begin, not end, the troop withdrawal on May 1 (prompting Trump to complain that it should be done sooner), getting everyone out by September 11, the 20th anniversary of the al-Qaeda attacks that took us there in the first place. (He later adjusted that to August 31.) He promised to evacuate the country “responsibly, deliberately, and safely” and assured Americans that the U.S. had “trained and equipped a standing force of over 300,000 Afghan personnel” and that “they’ll continue to fight valiantly, on behalf of the Afghans, at great cost.”

Instead, the Afghan army crumbled as the U.S began to pull its remaining troops out in July. By mid-August, the Taliban had taken control of the capital, Kabul, after taking all the regional capitals in a little over a week. It turned out that when the Trump administration cut the Afghan government out of negotiations with the Taliban, Afghan soldiers recognized that they would soon be on their own and arranged “cease fire” agreements, enabling the Taliban to take control with very little fighting.

Just before the Taliban took Kabul, the leaders of the Afghan government fled the country, abandoning the country to chaos. People rushed to the airport to escape, although the Taliban quickly reassured them that they would give amnesty to all of their former enemies. In those chaotic early hours, seven Afghans died, either crushed in the crowds or killed when they fell from planes to which they had clung in hopes of getting out.

Then, though, the Biden administration established order and has conducted the largest airlift in U.S. history, more than 100,000 people, without casualties until today. The State Department says about 1000 Americans remain in Afghanistan. They are primarily Afghan-Americans who are not sure whether they want to leave. The administration is in contact with them and promises it will continue to work to evacuate them after August 31 if they choose to leave.

In the past, when American troops were targeted by terrorists, Americans came together to condemn those attackers. Apparently, no longer. While world leaders—including even those of the Taliban—condemned the attacks on U.S. troops, Republican leaders instead attacked President Biden.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) blamed Biden for the attack and insisted that troops should remain in Afghanistan under congressional control until all Americans are safely out. Representative Elise Stefanik (R-NY), who replaced Liz Cheney (R-WY) as the third-ranking Republican in the House when Cheney refused to line up behind Trump, tweeted: "Joe Biden has blood on his hands.... This horrific national security and humanitarian disaster is solely the result of Joe Biden's weak and incompetent leadership. He is unfit to be Commander-in-Chief.”
Regarding McCarthy’s idiotic proposal, it is worth remembering that a few years ago even the Party of Stupid thought McCarthy was too stupid to allow him to become Speaker of the House (he was supposed to replace Boehner until he was revealed to be too stupid for the job). His current status as Minority Leader reflects the continuing intellectual decline of the right-wing, as also reflected in the idiotic right-wing posts on this forum.

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/ ... 020-Update

DocBarrister

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:58 am
by DocBarrister
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:03 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
I am sort of in agreement with you. I'm incensed because the loss of our marines could have been avoided. The attack was predictable, the British tried to sound the alarm. I guess our military folks handing the job for outside perimeter security over to the Taliban will be looked at in the upcoming congressional investigations. This who we gonna blame show is just getting ramped up.
And how could the attack have been prevented and the loss of our marines avoided?

If Afghanistan has taught us anything, it’s that these types of attacks are impossible to completely prevent.

The only way to prevent the loss of our marines is to take them out of there.

DocBarrister

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:03 am
by jhu72
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
... you haven't been paying attention if you think the left wing media is trying to cover for the Biden administration. They have been ripping him a new assh*le.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am
by MDlaxfan76
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
Fine. Find some articles I've posted that are slanted or misleading? I'm all ears.
:lol: :roll: Now, that is worth a chuckle...so much disinformation, how could we choose?

IMO, it's all fine and well to Monday morning quarterback Biden and his Admin...either way before a tragedy or well afterward, with some perspective gained. But not in the midst of actual lives lost to terrorists. Pretty darn unseemly.

And if one insists on critiquing in real time, please spare us the the hypocritical sanctimonious BS about how "incompetent" this Admin is if you weren't willing to rip the prior Admin for its replete incompetences.

Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.

But right now, I'm rooting for this Admin and its allies to be as successful and safe as possible in executing this withdrawal, and I'm going save my anger for ISIS-K.

Domestic politics can wait.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:14 am
by Typical Lax Dad
https://www.businessinsider.com/kabul-e ... 'Benghazi'

I was afraid to post this as Russell is out here counting posts….he doesn’t know I am from the midwest and naturally “talkative”. Will talk to anyone at anytime about anything…. “we friendly!”

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:15 am
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.
Save us the spin please. I can see it now...

The butcher's bill = only X troops killed in exchange for Y evacuees.

It was inevitable & not preventable. Blame youknowwho.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:27 am
by jhu72
I thought, based on the number of times I have been told by board Trumpnista, that ISIS had been totally defeated by the Donald. Was assured the real danger was the folks in Syria, Iraq, (the Caliphate), not allied organizations that scattered around the world after we started pushing them out of their "caliphate". ISIS-K thinks the Taliban are too moderate.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:27 am
by Kikin
DocBarrister wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:38 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
This withdrawal is being done now so we don’t lose any additional Americans in Afghanistan.

We couldn’t prevent deadly attacks against our forces there when we had over 100,000 troops stationed there.

So, pray tell … how could this withdrawal have been done differently without the horror and tragedy?

Want “God” to bless our troops and their families? Let’s finish the withdrawal and get the heck out of that god forsaken land. That’s a blessing that should have occurred 15 years ago.

DocBarrister
Sir, I admire your knowledge and views on the lacrosse board but I am shocked you would pose this question. Pray tell ...how could this withdraw been done differently? Is this a serious question? Let me give you just a few quick ones, there are hundreds more details that should have been done differently. Let's begin with the internal state department cable sent to Biden administration in July signed by 26 officials stationed in the US Embassy in Kabul alerting the administration to the fact that the Taliban was well positioned to take over Afghanistan quickly. It was ignored and Biden "advisers" stuck with the story that the Taliban could not take over quickly. Next, Bagram air base was LITERALLY walked away from, fully intact (all equipment, supplies, data bases etc...) You NEVER leave your military outpost as your first step of a withdraw. Now we are working from a small antiquated commercial airport with ONE runway. We had NO established perimeter to protect any means of american personnel or civilian personel withdraw. We did not contact our coalition partners and withdrew without their knowledge or participation. We evacuated most of the troops before evacuating the rest of those we needed to evacuated, contrary to any military protocol. Then because of that bonehead move, we had to turn around and fly thousands of military personel back. We allowed the Taliban to dictate all of the airport security (what in the Heck!!!) and to scrutinize who gets access through the various check points. Therefore, since the administration failed in preparation and the proper sequence of withdraw, we left thousands of Americans and TERPS (interpreters and their families) behind. Instead of going out and getting our people like France, the UK and other countries, we sent them texts and emails to "show up at the airport " not acknowledging that the Taliban was turning them away (often beating them first). Our coalition partners have lost all faith in the U.S. and for the first time ever, the UK parliament offically condemned a US president. No contingency plans, no ability to adjust. They bottled in our troops and stranded those we promised to bring home. I could go on and on about the ways protocol and advice were broken and ignored, but I hope you get the gist. I believe you to be a very wise and educated man and I believe in your heart of hearts you understand, regardless of your political views, this withdraw was just a series of miscues, stubborness and plain old bone-headness.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:30 am
by Typical Lax Dad
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:27 am
DocBarrister wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:38 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
This withdrawal is being done now so we don’t lose any additional Americans in Afghanistan.

We couldn’t prevent deadly attacks against our forces there when we had over 100,000 troops stationed there.

So, pray tell … how could this withdrawal have been done differently without the horror and tragedy?

Want “God” to bless our troops and their families? Let’s finish the withdrawal and get the heck out of that god forsaken land. That’s a blessing that should have occurred 15 years ago.

DocBarrister
Sir, I admire your knowledge and views on the lacrosse board but I am shocked you would pose this question. Pray tell ...how could this withdraw been done differently? Is this a serious question? Let me give you just a few quick ones, there are hundreds more details that should have been done differently. Let's begin with the internal state department cable sent to Biden administration in July signed by 26 officials stationed in the US Embassy in Kabul alerting the administration to the fact that the Taliban was well positioned to take over Afghanistan quickly. It was ignored and Biden "advisers" stuck with the story that the Taliban could not take over quickly. Next, Bagram air base was LITERALLY walked away from, fully intact (all equipment, supplies, data bases etc...) You NEVER leave your military outpost as your first step of a withdraw. Now we are working from a small antiquated commercial airport with ONE runway. We had NO established perimeter to protect any means of american personnel or civilian personel withdraw. We did not contact our coalition partners and withdrew without their knowledge or participation. We evacuated most of the troops before evacuating the rest of those we needed to evacuated, contrary to any military protocol. Then because of that bonehead move, we had to turn around and fly thousands of military personel back. We allowed the Taliban to dictate all of the airport security (what in the Heck!!!) and to scrutinize who gets access through the various check points. Therefore, since the administration failed in preparation and the proper sequence of withdraw, we left thousands of Americans and TERPS (interpreters and their families) behind. Instead of going out and getting our people like France, the UK and other countries, we sent them texts and emails to "show up at the airport " not acknowledging that the Taliban was turning them away (often beating them first). Our coalition partners have lost all faith in the U.S. and for the first time ever, the UK parliament offically condemned a US president. No contingency plans, no ability to adjust. They bottled in our troops and stranded those we promised to bring home. I could go on and on about the ways protocol and advice were broken and ignored, but I hope you get the gist. I believe you to be a very wise and educated man and I believe in your heart of hearts you understand, regardless of your political views, this withdraw was just a series of miscues, stubborness and plain old bone-headness.
Here were the terms:


Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:38 am
by DocBarrister
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:27 am
DocBarrister wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:38 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
This withdrawal is being done now so we don’t lose any additional Americans in Afghanistan.

We couldn’t prevent deadly attacks against our forces there when we had over 100,000 troops stationed there.

So, pray tell … how could this withdrawal have been done differently without the horror and tragedy?

Want “God” to bless our troops and their families? Let’s finish the withdrawal and get the heck out of that god forsaken land. That’s a blessing that should have occurred 15 years ago.

DocBarrister
Sir, I admire your knowledge and views on the lacrosse board but I am shocked you would pose this question. Pray tell ...how could this withdraw been done differently? Is this a serious question? Let me give you just a few quick ones, there are hundreds more details that should have been done differently. Let's begin with the internal state department cable sent to Biden administration in July signed by 26 officials stationed in the US Embassy in Kabul alerting the administration to the fact that the Taliban was well positioned to take over Afghanistan quickly. It was ignored and Biden "advisers" stuck with the story that the Taliban could not take over quickly. Next, Bagram air base was LITERALLY walked away from, fully intact (all equipment, supplies, data bases etc...) You NEVER leave your military outpost as your first step of a withdraw. Now we are working from a small antiquated commercial airport with ONE runway. We had NO established perimeter to protect any means of american personnel or civilian personel withdraw. We did not contact our coalition partners and withdrew without their knowledge or participation. We evacuated most of the troops before evacuating the rest of those we needed to evacuated, contrary to any military protocol. Then because of that bonehead move, we had to turn around and fly thousands of military personel back. We allowed the Taliban to dictate all of the airport security (what in the Heck!!!) and to scrutinize who gets access through the various check points. Therefore, since the administration failed in preparation and the proper sequence of withdraw, we left thousands of Americans and TERPS (interpreters and their families) behind. Instead of going out and getting our people like France, the UK and other countries, we sent them texts and emails to "show up at the airport " not acknowledging that the Taliban was turning them away (often beating them first). Our coalition partners have lost all faith in the U.S. and for the first time ever, the UK parliament offically condemned a US president. No contingency plans, no ability to adjust. They bottled in our troops and stranded those we promised to bring home. I could go on and on about the ways protocol and advice were broken and ignored, but I hope you get the gist. I believe you to be a very wise and educated man and I believe in your heart of hearts you understand, regardless of your political views, this withdraw was just a series of miscues, stubborness and plain old bone-headness.
Bagram Air Base was abandoned at the recommendation of the U.S. military. This was confirmed yet again yesterday by President Biden himself.

Nothing was going to stop the takeover by the Taliban except a permanent U.S. deployment in Afghanistan.

Directly extracting U.S. citizens, who were told for months to leave, would have exposed U.S. troops even more to terrorist attacks.

Trump had nothing but disdain for NATO and our coalition partners, as exemplified by his unilateral decision to leave Afghanistan. President Biden held extensive discussions with the G7 and NATO about the planned U.S. and NATO withdrawal, so you really should stop posting lies about that.

DocBarrister

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:42 am
by DocBarrister
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:15 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.
Save us the spin please. I can see it now...

The butcher's bill = only X troops killed in exchange for Y evacuees.

It was inevitable & not preventable. Blame youknowwho.
You haven’t told us how all of this could have been prevented, short of U.S. forces staying permanently or some fantasy scenarios which have no grounding in reality.

DocBarrister

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:51 am
by get it to x
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
Fine. Find some articles I've posted that are slanted or misleading? I'm all ears.
:lol: :roll: Now, that is worth a chuckle...so much disinformation, how could we choose?

IMO, it's all fine and well to Monday morning quarterback Biden and his Admin...either way before a tragedy or well afterward, with some perspective gained. But not in the midst of actual lives lost to terrorists. Pretty darn unseemly.

And if one insists on critiquing in real time, please spare us the the hypocritical sanctimonious BS about how "incompetent" this Admin is if you weren't willing to rip the prior Admin for its replete incompetences.

Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.

But right now, I'm rooting for this Admin and its allies to be as successful and safe as possible in executing this withdrawal, and I'm going save my anger for ISIS-K.

Domestic politics can wait.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:55 am
by Kikin
Gotta love the left, they will find any excuse for this administrations blundering. EVERYTHING, everything in the military is contingent on circumstances and condition and must be flexible depending on the situation. There is NO excuse for the circumstances other then incompetence. Anyone who wishes to make excuses for this, I can't help you because you do not wish to see reason or understand.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:02 am
by DocBarrister
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:55 am Gotta love the left, they will find any excuse for this administrations blundering. EVERYTHING, everything in the military is contingent on circumstances and condition and must be flexible depending on the situation. There is NO excuse for the circumstances other then incompetence. Anyone who wishes to make excuses for this, I can't help you because you do not wish to see reason or understand.
There is no excuse for not having left Afghanistan 15 years ago.

The incompetence was in thinking that nation-building would work in a nation as corrupt and divided as Afghanistan.

DocBarrister

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:04 am
by get it to x
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
Fine. Find some articles I've posted that are slanted or misleading? I'm all ears.
:lol: :roll: Now, that is worth a chuckle...so much disinformation, how could we choose?

IMO, it's all fine and well to Monday morning quarterback Biden and his Admin...either way before a tragedy or well afterward, with some perspective gained. But not in the midst of actual lives lost to terrorists. Pretty darn unseemly.

And if one insists on critiquing in real time, please spare us the the hypocritical sanctimonious BS about how "incompetent" this Admin is if you weren't willing to rip the prior Admin for its replete incompetences.

Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.

But right now, I'm rooting for this Admin and its allies to be as successful and safe as possible in executing this withdrawal, and I'm going save my anger for ISIS-K.

Domestic politics can wait.
First of all, stop identifying as a Republican. Second, nobody is rooting for terror. Third, we don’t need some new committees or investigations. We can see what happened with our very own eyes. Blame Trump if you want, but he would have at least got the sequencing correct.

1 Evac citizens
2 Evac vetted Afghans who aided our mission (misguided adventure)
3 Remove military hardware if practical
4 Destroy remaining hardware
5 Find new home for prisoners/jihadis
6 Evac Troops
7 Carpet bomb Bagram AFB

I still think they should have left a residual force, especially close air support. Removing air cover emboldened Taliban and undermined the Afghan army.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:09 am
by Typical Lax Dad
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:04 am
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
Fine. Find some articles I've posted that are slanted or misleading? I'm all ears.
:lol: :roll: Now, that is worth a chuckle...so much disinformation, how could we choose?

IMO, it's all fine and well to Monday morning quarterback Biden and his Admin...either way before a tragedy or well afterward, with some perspective gained. But not in the midst of actual lives lost to terrorists. Pretty darn unseemly.

And if one insists on critiquing in real time, please spare us the the hypocritical sanctimonious BS about how "incompetent" this Admin is if you weren't willing to rip the prior Admin for its replete incompetences.

Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.

But right now, I'm rooting for this Admin and its allies to be as successful and safe as possible in executing this withdrawal, and I'm going save my anger for ISIS-K.

Domestic politics can wait.
First of all, stop identifying as a Republican. Second, nobody is rooting for terror. Third, we don’t need some new committees or investigations. We can see what happened with our very own eyes. Blame Trump if you want, but he would have at least got the sequencing correct.

1 Evac citizens
2 Evac vetted Afghans who aided our mission (misguided adventure)
3 Remove military hardware if practical
4 Destroy remaining hardware
5 Find new home for prisoners/jihadis
6 Evac Troops
7 Carpet bomb Bagram AFB

I still think they should have left a residual force, especially close air support. Removing air cover emboldened Taliban and undermined the Afghan army.
Reaching a deal with the Taliban and not requiring a ceasefire is what emboldened the Taliban. We sided with them. We asked them not to allow terrorists to use Afghanistan as a base of terror after we leave….why did the prior administration negotiate that ask with someone we didn’t expect to “win”?

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/peace-talk ... -await?amp

“As part of the U.S. bargain with the Taliban, the Afghan government was forced to release five thousand Taliban prisoners—including a major narcotics trafficker and terrorists responsible for the deaths of Australian, French, and U.S. nationals. The Taliban, in turn, released one thousand government prisoners. In addition, the Taliban has refrained from killing U.S. troops, although it is believed to be responsible for rockets that were fired at U.S. bases this summer without inflicting any casualties.”

But Afghanistan is all on Biden…..how about Afghanistan is on USA’s policy over the past 20 years, at least….

Good info here: https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/R45122.pdf

Vintage Donald Trump management style. Self absorbed, create a mess and then point a finger.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:27 am
by cradleandshoot
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:27 am
DocBarrister wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:38 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
This withdrawal is being done now so we don’t lose any additional Americans in Afghanistan.

We couldn’t prevent deadly attacks against our forces there when we had over 100,000 troops stationed there.

So, pray tell … how could this withdrawal have been done differently without the horror and tragedy?

Want “God” to bless our troops and their families? Let’s finish the withdrawal and get the heck out of that god forsaken land. That’s a blessing that should have occurred 15 years ago.

DocBarrister
Sir, I admire your knowledge and views on the lacrosse board but I am shocked you would pose this question. Pray tell ...how could this withdraw been done differently? Is this a serious question? Let me give you just a few quick ones, there are hundreds more details that should have been done differently. Let's begin with the internal state department cable sent to Biden administration in July signed by 26 officials stationed in the US Embassy in Kabul alerting the administration to the fact that the Taliban was well positioned to take over Afghanistan quickly. It was ignored and Biden "advisers" stuck with the story that the Taliban could not take over quickly. Next, Bagram air base was LITERALLY walked away from, fully intact (all equipment, supplies, data bases etc...) You NEVER leave your military outpost as your first step of a withdraw. Now we are working from a small antiquated commercial airport with ONE runway. We had NO established perimeter to protect any means of american personnel or civilian personel withdraw. We did not contact our coalition partners and withdrew without their knowledge or participation. We evacuated most of the troops before evacuating the rest of those we needed to evacuated, contrary to any military protocol. Then because of that bonehead move, we had to turn around and fly thousands of military personel back. We allowed the Taliban to dictate all of the airport security (what in the Heck!!!) and to scrutinize who gets access through the various check points. Therefore, since the administration failed in preparation and the proper sequence of withdraw, we left thousands of Americans and TERPS (interpreters and their families) behind. Instead of going out and getting our people like France, the UK and other countries, we sent them texts and emails to "show up at the airport " not acknowledging that the Taliban was turning them away (often beating them first). Our coalition partners have lost all faith in the U.S. and for the first time ever, the UK parliament offically condemned a US president. No contingency plans, no ability to adjust. They bottled in our troops and stranded those we promised to bring home. I could go on and on about the ways protocol and advice were broken and ignored, but I hope you get the gist. I believe you to be a very wise and educated man and I believe in your heart of hearts you understand, regardless of your political views, this withdraw was just a series of miscues, stubborness and plain old bone-headness.
+1 Brilliant post, nothing left to be said. The only people on this forum hating this brilliant post are all the brain damaged usual suspects. I guess we can blame this heck up on trump...

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:36 am
by Kikin
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:04 am
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
Fine. Find some articles I've posted that are slanted or misleading? I'm all ears.
:lol: :roll: Now, that is worth a chuckle...so much disinformation, how could we choose?

IMO, it's all fine and well to Monday morning quarterback Biden and his Admin...either way before a tragedy or well afterward, with some perspective gained. But not in the midst of actual lives lost to terrorists. Pretty darn unseemly.

And if one insists on critiquing in real time, please spare us the the hypocritical sanctimonious BS about how "incompetent" this Admin is if you weren't willing to rip the prior Admin for its replete incompetences.

Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.

But right now, I'm rooting for this Admin and its allies to be as successful and safe as possible in executing this withdrawal, and I'm going save my anger for ISIS-K.

Domestic politics can wait.
First of all, stop identifying as a Republican. Second, nobody is rooting for terror. Third, we don’t need some new committees or investigations. We can see what happened with our very own eyes. Blame Trump if you want, but he would have at least got the sequencing correct.

1 Evac citizens
2 Evac vetted Afghans who aided our mission (misguided adventure)
3 Remove military hardware if practical
4 Destroy remaining hardware
5 Find new home for prisoners/jihadis
6 Evac Troops
7 Carpet bomb Bagram AFB

I still think they should have left a residual force, especially close air support. Removing air cover emboldened Taliban and undermined the Afghan army.
+1

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:41 am
by jhu72
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:04 am
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
Fine. Find some articles I've posted that are slanted or misleading? I'm all ears.
:lol: :roll: Now, that is worth a chuckle...so much disinformation, how could we choose?

IMO, it's all fine and well to Monday morning quarterback Biden and his Admin...either way before a tragedy or well afterward, with some perspective gained. But not in the midst of actual lives lost to terrorists. Pretty darn unseemly.

And if one insists on critiquing in real time, please spare us the the hypocritical sanctimonious BS about how "incompetent" this Admin is if you weren't willing to rip the prior Admin for its replete incompetences.

Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.

But right now, I'm rooting for this Admin and its allies to be as successful and safe as possible in executing this withdrawal, and I'm going save my anger for ISIS-K.

Domestic politics can wait.
First of all, stop identifying as a Republican. Second, nobody is rooting for terror. Third, we don’t need some new committees or investigations. We can see what happened with our very own eyes. Blame Trump if you want, but he would have at least got the sequencing correct.

1 Evac citizens
2 Evac vetted Afghans who aided our mission (misguided adventure)
3 Remove military hardware if practical
4 Destroy remaining hardware
5 Find new home for prisoners/jihadis
6 Evac Troops
7 Carpet bomb Bagram AFB

I still think they should have left a residual force, especially close air support. Removing air cover emboldened Taliban and undermined the Afghan army.
.... sorry, but this would not work. Step one alerts and step two confirms that the US is leaving and that it has NO CONFIDENCE in the ASF and the Afghan administration! The ASF stops pretending they are defending the country, the Afghan administration bolts. Taliban begins moving through the country just as they did with the plan executed over the past weeks. You are in the same position, except now you have more military assets laying around to be swept up. The US troops in country could not have stopped the Taliban advance without bringing in significantly more troops, which is exactly why we are leaving now, before we had to increase the ante.

Biden made one big mistake from which all else flows. Believing the ASF was ever going to defend "their country" without US forces on the ground. He was not alone in this decision, it is his responsibility, but the military played their roll in this decision. Sh*t, they have been selling the "how great these guys are doing myth" since forever. No one, Biden or the military believed it would fall so quickly. The CIA believed with the scenario being executed, we had until mid September (according to Richard Engel) before we reached this point. Everyone else believed it would take the Taliban longer.

You could not just leave air support in country. The Taliban had made it clear and they had clearly grown in size in preparation that they were going to make a push this "fighting season". Expecting the ASF to successfully defend that air support is unbelievable.

Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:44 am
by Typical Lax Dad
jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:41 am
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:04 am
get it to x wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:04 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am
Kismet wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am
tech37 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:37 am
Kikin wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:40 am The news article is a typical liberal partisan hit piece. The Business Insider is published by a German publishing house and Jeff Bezos holds shares in this publication (what does that tell you?). On the board of directors... Huffington Post co -founder Ken Lerer and Julie Hansen, formerly of CBS. If you can get any more left leaning then that, well, I wouldn't know how unless you actually worked for the democratic party (but hey is there really any difference?). Bottom line is most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, how you get out is the most important part. This administration has repeatedly shown its complete incompetence (open border anyone, how about alittle fentanyl with your coffee, maybe out on the deck with your MS-13 neighbors?) and this withdraw was executed in a haphazard manner and against almost all the usual protocol for engagement and military withdraw.

Naturally, the left wing media is trying to give this administration cover. How about we start being Americans first? God bless those marines and corpman killed yesterday and God bless those we leave behind. As for this administration, Forgive them father, they know not what they do (at least I hope this is ignorance and not intent).
+1 Kikin... jhu72 has a talent for digging up slanted/misleading articles on a range of topics
Just an observation....It would appear that you are often engaged in similar activity just with a different set of slanted/misleading articles. Call it the pot meet kettle syndrome for lack of a better term.

What I find most disheartening that on a day that we lost 12 Marines and a Navy corpsman, that the focus appears to be on the usual BS politics and arguing over stuff that doesn't appear to be so important right now. :oops: :oops: Kikin was there before the end of his post and IMHO that's the correct sentiment without the rant in the preceding paragraph
Fine. Find some articles I've posted that are slanted or misleading? I'm all ears.
:lol: :roll: Now, that is worth a chuckle...so much disinformation, how could we choose?

IMO, it's all fine and well to Monday morning quarterback Biden and his Admin...either way before a tragedy or well afterward, with some perspective gained. But not in the midst of actual lives lost to terrorists. Pretty darn unseemly.

And if one insists on critiquing in real time, please spare us the the hypocritical sanctimonious BS about how "incompetent" this Admin is if you weren't willing to rip the prior Admin for its replete incompetences.

Wanna do a scorecard? Fine
(not right now after this bombing, but later?) fine.

It ain't gonna be close.
And that's coming from a Republican.

But right now, I'm rooting for this Admin and its allies to be as successful and safe as possible in executing this withdrawal, and I'm going save my anger for ISIS-K.

Domestic politics can wait.
First of all, stop identifying as a Republican. Second, nobody is rooting for terror. Third, we don’t need some new committees or investigations. We can see what happened with our very own eyes. Blame Trump if you want, but he would have at least got the sequencing correct.

1 Evac citizens
2 Evac vetted Afghans who aided our mission (misguided adventure)
3 Remove military hardware if practical
4 Destroy remaining hardware
5 Find new home for prisoners/jihadis
6 Evac Troops
7 Carpet bomb Bagram AFB

I still think they should have left a residual force, especially close air support. Removing air cover emboldened Taliban and undermined the Afghan army.
.... sorry, but this would not work. Step one alerts and step two confirms that the US is leaving and that it has NO CONFIDENCE in the ASF and the Afghan administration! The ASF stops pretending they are defending the country, the Afghan administration bolts. Taliban begins moving through the country just as they did with the plan executed over the past weeks. You are in the same position, except now you have more military assets laying around to be swept up. The US troops in country could not have stopped the Taliban advance without bringing in significantly more troops, which is exactly why we are leaving now, before we had to increase the ante.

Biden made one big mistake from which all else flows. Believing the ASF was ever going to defend "their country" without US forces on the ground. He was not alone in this decision, it is his responsibility, but the military played their roll in this decision. Sh*t, they have been selling the "how great these guys are doing myth" since forever. No one, Biden or the military believed it would fall so quickly. The CIA believed with the scenario being executed, we had until mid September (according to Richard Engel) before we reached this point. Everyone else believed it would take the Taliban longer.

You could not just leave air support in country. The Taliban had made it clear and they had clearly grown in size in preparation that they were going to make a push this "fighting season". Expecting the ASF to successfully defend that air support is unbelievable.
+1