holmes435 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:02 pm
Most of them?
Rural residents are more dependent on Food Stamps than urban residents to feed them.
Rural residents are poorer than urban residents. Do you think they're going to fancy private schools, or are they depending on the county to educate them at public schools.
Rural residents are less employed than urban residents, making them more dependent on things like government work programs, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, etc.
Rural residents have higher rates of disability, making them more dependent on Government disability payments.
I have enjoyed living in a small town of 10,000, and in some of the biggest cities in the country. There's great parts to both, but people shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.
I guess the problem is that most people don't know they're living in glass houses when they complain.
I anxiously await your reliable stats and numbers to back those claims up.
Not averages, numbers.
I mentioned a specific city- Baltimore. You mentioned general "most of them"
Just for giggles, which rural city are you thinking of?!
US average - 13% of the households receive snap benefits
Maryland - 11.1%
11 states are between MD and the national average
States above 15% - GA, NY, AL, MI, RI, ME, LA, WV, TN, NM, KY, MS, OR
Mid West average - 12.9%,
South average - 14.2%
Mid Atlantic average - 13.4%
North East average - 13.2%
North East average - 13.2%
Mountain average- 11.4%
West average - 11.1%
Not surprisingly, the elderly make up a good chunk. Purchasing power has been flat for decades and when income drops at the end of employment or “retirement” this people are dependent on aid. It’s common sense. The image of the Urban Welfare Queen is over represented in the media.
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm
by ToastDunk
Important opinion piece in the Times today. Ezra Klein may be ringing the alarm bells a bit loud, but I have no arguments with the premise of his piece.
Here are some excerpts:
"...Put simply, Democrats can’t win running the kinds of campaigns and deploying the kinds of tactics that succeed for Republicans. They can move to the left — and they are — but they can’t abandon the center or, given the geography of American politics, the center-right, and still hold power. Democrats are modestly, but importantly, restrained by diversity and democracy. Republicans are not."
"...Appealing to Democrats requires appealing to a lot of different kinds of people with different interests. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on white voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal whites, African Americans, Hispanics, Asians and mixed-race voters. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on Christian voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal and nonwhite Christians, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, agnostics, Buddhists and so on. Three-quarters of Republicans identify as conservative, while only half of Democrats call themselves liberals — and for Democrats, that’s a historically high level."
"...The Democratic Party is not just more diverse in who it represents; it’s also more diverse in whom it listens to. A new Pew survey tested Democratic and Republican trust in 30 different media sources, ranging from left to right. Democrats trusted 22 of the 30 sources, including center-right outlets like The Wall Street Journal. Republicans trusted only 7 of the 30 sources, with PBS, the BBC and The Wall Street Journal the only mainstream outlets with significant trust. (The other trusted sources, in case you were wondering, were Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart.)"
"...Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and a majority of governorships. Only the House is under Democratic control. And yet Democrats haven’t just won more votes in the House elections. They won more votes over the last three Senate elections, too. They won more votes in both the 2016 and 2000 presidential elections. But America’s political system counts states and districts rather than people, and the GOP’s more rural coalition has a geographic advantage that offsets its popular disadvantage.
To win power, Democrats don’t just need to appeal to the voter in the middle. They need to appeal to voters to the right of the middle. When Democrats compete for the Senate, they are forced to appeal to an electorate that is far more conservative than the country as a whole. Similarly, gerrymandering and geography means that Democrats need to win a substantial majority in the House popular vote to take the gavel. And a recent study by Michael Geruso, Dean Spears and Ishaana Talesara calculates that the Republican Party’s Electoral College advantage means “Republicans should be expected to win 65 percent of presidential contests in which they narrowly lose the popular vote.”"
"...The alternative to democratizing America is scarier than mere polarization: it is, eventually, a legitimacy crisis that could threaten the very foundation of our political system. By 2040, 70 percent of Americans will live in the 15 largest states. That means 70 percent of America will be represented by only thirty senators, while the other 30 percent of America will be represented by seventy senators."
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:49 pm
by jhu72
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Important opinion piece in the Times today. Ezra Klein may be ringing the alarm bells a bit loud, but I have no arguments with the premise of his piece.
Here are some excerpts:
"...Put simply, Democrats can’t win running the kinds of campaigns and deploying the kinds of tactics that succeed for Republicans. They can move to the left — and they are — but they can’t abandon the center or, given the geography of American politics, the center-right, and still hold power. Democrats are modestly, but importantly, restrained by diversity and democracy. Republicans are not."
"...Appealing to Democrats requires appealing to a lot of different kinds of people with different interests. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on white voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal whites, African Americans, Hispanics, Asians and mixed-race voters. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on Christian voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal and nonwhite Christians, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, agnostics, Buddhists and so on. Three-quarters of Republicans identify as conservative, while only half of Democrats call themselves liberals — and for Democrats, that’s a historically high level."
"...The Democratic Party is not just more diverse in who it represents; it’s also more diverse in whom it listens to. A new Pew survey tested Democratic and Republican trust in 30 different media sources, ranging from left to right. Democrats trusted 22 of the 30 sources, including center-right outlets like The Wall Street Journal. Republicans trusted only 7 of the 30 sources, with PBS, the BBC and The Wall Street Journal the only mainstream outlets with significant trust. (The other trusted sources, in case you were wondering, were Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart.)"
"...Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and a majority of governorships. Only the House is under Democratic control. And yet Democrats haven’t just won more votes in the House elections. They won more votes over the last three Senate elections, too. They won more votes in both the 2016 and 2000 presidential elections. But America’s political system counts states and districts rather than people, and the GOP’s more rural coalition has a geographic advantage that offsets its popular disadvantage.
To win power, Democrats don’t just need to appeal to the voter in the middle. They need to appeal to voters to the right of the middle. When Democrats compete for the Senate, they are forced to appeal to an electorate that is far more conservative than the country as a whole. Similarly, gerrymandering and geography means that Democrats need to win a substantial majority in the House popular vote to take the gavel. And a recent study by Michael Geruso, Dean Spears and Ishaana Talesara calculates that the Republican Party’s Electoral College advantage means “Republicans should be expected to win 65 percent of presidential contests in which they narrowly lose the popular vote.”"
"...The alternative to democratizing America is scarier than mere polarization: it is, eventually, a legitimacy crisis that could threaten the very foundation of our political system. By 2040, 70 percent of Americans will live in the 15 largest states. That means 70 percent of America will be represented by only thirty senators, while the other 30 percent of America will be represented by seventy senators."
This situation is untenable, cannot last. A minority population cannot govern the US against the will of the majority population without blowing up the country. This is the lesson of the Trump presidency. Not yet fully learned by the Trumpnista. The resistance will only grow.
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:50 pm
by Peter Brown
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Important opinion piece in the Times today. Ezra Klein may be ringing the alarm bells a bit loud, but I have no arguments with the premise of his piece.
Here are some excerpts:
"...Put simply, Democrats can’t win running the kinds of campaigns and deploying the kinds of tactics that succeed for Republicans. They can move to the left — and they are — but they can’t abandon the center or, given the geography of American politics, the center-right, and still hold power. Democrats are modestly, but importantly, restrained by diversity and democracy. Republicans are not."
"...Appealing to Democrats requires appealing to a lot of different kinds of people with different interests. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on white voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal whites, African Americans, Hispanics, Asians and mixed-race voters. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on Christian voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal and nonwhite Christians, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, agnostics, Buddhists and so on. Three-quarters of Republicans identify as conservative, while only half of Democrats call themselves liberals — and for Democrats, that’s a historically high level."
"...The Democratic Party is not just more diverse in who it represents; it’s also more diverse in whom it listens to. A new Pew survey tested Democratic and Republican trust in 30 different media sources, ranging from left to right. Democrats trusted 22 of the 30 sources, including center-right outlets like The Wall Street Journal. Republicans trusted only 7 of the 30 sources, with PBS, the BBC and The Wall Street Journal the only mainstream outlets with significant trust. (The other trusted sources, in case you were wondering, were Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart.)"
"...Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and a majority of governorships. Only the House is under Democratic control. And yet Democrats haven’t just won more votes in the House elections. They won more votes over the last three Senate elections, too. They won more votes in both the 2016 and 2000 presidential elections. But America’s political system counts states and districts rather than people, and the GOP’s more rural coalition has a geographic advantage that offsets its popular disadvantage.
To win power, Democrats don’t just need to appeal to the voter in the middle. They need to appeal to voters to the right of the middle. When Democrats compete for the Senate, they are forced to appeal to an electorate that is far more conservative than the country as a whole. Similarly, gerrymandering and geography means that Democrats need to win a substantial majority in the House popular vote to take the gavel. And a recent study by Michael Geruso, Dean Spears and Ishaana Talesara calculates that the Republican Party’s Electoral College advantage means “Republicans should be expected to win 65 percent of presidential contests in which they narrowly lose the popular vote.”"
"...The alternative to democratizing America is scarier than mere polarization: it is, eventually, a legitimacy crisis that could threaten the very foundation of our political system. By 2040, 70 percent of Americans will live in the 15 largest states. That means 70 percent of America will be represented by only thirty senators, while the other 30 percent of America will be represented by seventy senators."
‘Dems can’t abandon the Center’. Lol. They already have.
The real issue is the Left has comically lurched to hardcore socialism and all its attendant Vices: cracking down on free speech, exiling non believers, eradicating the profit incrntive, etc. They’ll govern like Maduro if you vote them in.
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Important opinion piece in the Times today. Ezra Klein may be ringing the alarm bells a bit loud, but I have no arguments with the premise of his piece.
Here are some excerpts:
"...Put simply, Democrats can’t win running the kinds of campaigns and deploying the kinds of tactics that succeed for Republicans. They can move to the left — and they are — but they can’t abandon the center or, given the geography of American politics, the center-right, and still hold power. Democrats are modestly, but importantly, restrained by diversity and democracy. Republicans are not."
"...Appealing to Democrats requires appealing to a lot of different kinds of people with different interests. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on white voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal whites, African Americans, Hispanics, Asians and mixed-race voters. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on Christian voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal and nonwhite Christians, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, agnostics, Buddhists and so on. Three-quarters of Republicans identify as conservative, while only half of Democrats call themselves liberals — and for Democrats, that’s a historically high level."
"...The Democratic Party is not just more diverse in who it represents; it’s also more diverse in whom it listens to. A new Pew survey tested Democratic and Republican trust in 30 different media sources, ranging from left to right. Democrats trusted 22 of the 30 sources, including center-right outlets like The Wall Street Journal. Republicans trusted only 7 of the 30 sources, with PBS, the BBC and The Wall Street Journal the only mainstream outlets with significant trust. (The other trusted sources, in case you were wondering, were Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart.)"
"...Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and a majority of governorships. Only the House is under Democratic control. And yet Democrats haven’t just won more votes in the House elections. They won more votes over the last three Senate elections, too. They won more votes in both the 2016 and 2000 presidential elections. But America’s political system counts states and districts rather than people, and the GOP’s more rural coalition has a geographic advantage that offsets its popular disadvantage.
To win power, Democrats don’t just need to appeal to the voter in the middle. They need to appeal to voters to the right of the middle. When Democrats compete for the Senate, they are forced to appeal to an electorate that is far more conservative than the country as a whole. Similarly, gerrymandering and geography means that Democrats need to win a substantial majority in the House popular vote to take the gavel. And a recent study by Michael Geruso, Dean Spears and Ishaana Talesara calculates that the Republican Party’s Electoral College advantage means “Republicans should be expected to win 65 percent of presidential contests in which they narrowly lose the popular vote.”"
"...The alternative to democratizing America is scarier than mere polarization: it is, eventually, a legitimacy crisis that could threaten the very foundation of our political system. By 2040, 70 percent of Americans will live in the 15 largest states. That means 70 percent of America will be represented by only thirty senators, while the other 30 percent of America will be represented by seventy senators."
This situation is untenable, cannot last. A minority population cannot govern the US against the will of the majority population without blowing up the country. This is the lesson of the Trump presidency. Not yet fully learned by the Trumpnista. The resistance will only grow.
It's why you so often hear Republican politicians saying we can't simply let 51% decide the outcome of a vote, it's unfair. To which I say..."huh?"
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Important opinion piece in the Times today. Ezra Klein may be ringing the alarm bells a bit loud, but I have no arguments with the premise of his piece.
Here are some excerpts:
"...Put simply, Democrats can’t win running the kinds of campaigns and deploying the kinds of tactics that succeed for Republicans. They can move to the left — and they are — but they can’t abandon the center or, given the geography of American politics, the center-right, and still hold power. Democrats are modestly, but importantly, restrained by diversity and democracy. Republicans are not."
"...Appealing to Democrats requires appealing to a lot of different kinds of people with different interests. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on white voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal whites, African Americans, Hispanics, Asians and mixed-race voters. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on Christian voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal and nonwhite Christians, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, agnostics, Buddhists and so on. Three-quarters of Republicans identify as conservative, while only half of Democrats call themselves liberals — and for Democrats, that’s a historically high level."
"...The Democratic Party is not just more diverse in who it represents; it’s also more diverse in whom it listens to. A new Pew survey tested Democratic and Republican trust in 30 different media sources, ranging from left to right. Democrats trusted 22 of the 30 sources, including center-right outlets like The Wall Street Journal. Republicans trusted only 7 of the 30 sources, with PBS, the BBC and The Wall Street Journal the only mainstream outlets with significant trust. (The other trusted sources, in case you were wondering, were Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart.)"
"...Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and a majority of governorships. Only the House is under Democratic control. And yet Democrats haven’t just won more votes in the House elections. They won more votes over the last three Senate elections, too. They won more votes in both the 2016 and 2000 presidential elections. But America’s political system counts states and districts rather than people, and the GOP’s more rural coalition has a geographic advantage that offsets its popular disadvantage.
To win power, Democrats don’t just need to appeal to the voter in the middle. They need to appeal to voters to the right of the middle. When Democrats compete for the Senate, they are forced to appeal to an electorate that is far more conservative than the country as a whole. Similarly, gerrymandering and geography means that Democrats need to win a substantial majority in the House popular vote to take the gavel. And a recent study by Michael Geruso, Dean Spears and Ishaana Talesara calculates that the Republican Party’s Electoral College advantage means “Republicans should be expected to win 65 percent of presidential contests in which they narrowly lose the popular vote.”"
"...The alternative to democratizing America is scarier than mere polarization: it is, eventually, a legitimacy crisis that could threaten the very foundation of our political system. By 2040, 70 percent of Americans will live in the 15 largest states. That means 70 percent of America will be represented by only thirty senators, while the other 30 percent of America will be represented by seventy senators."
This situation is untenable, cannot last. A minority population cannot govern the US against the will of the majority population without blowing up the country. This is the lesson of the Trump presidency. Not yet fully learned by the Trumpnista. The resistance will only grow.
It's why you so often hear Republican politicians saying we can't simply let 51% decide the outcome of a vote, it's unfair. To which I say..."huh?"
It's telling that many here believe politics is static and not dynamic, and that what is today will always be tomorrow. How is it again that the Left thinks they're the 'smart' ones?
Anyhoo, the electoral college is perhaps the most brilliant piece of an invention in human history. They anticipated that governments would always seek to deny people their rights and doom their citizens. Since majorities can be led astray from time to time, and since we have but one life to give, the electoral college has ironically saved the bacon of many a lefty who don't realize vibrant capitalism is the only system that can begin to afford their hare-brained socialism.
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Important opinion piece in the Times today. Ezra Klein may be ringing the alarm bells a bit loud, but I have no arguments with the premise of his piece.
Here are some excerpts:
"...Put simply, Democrats can’t win running the kinds of campaigns and deploying the kinds of tactics that succeed for Republicans. They can move to the left — and they are — but they can’t abandon the center or, given the geography of American politics, the center-right, and still hold power. Democrats are modestly, but importantly, restrained by diversity and democracy. Republicans are not."
"...Appealing to Democrats requires appealing to a lot of different kinds of people with different interests. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on white voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal whites, African Americans, Hispanics, Asians and mixed-race voters. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on Christian voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal and nonwhite Christians, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, agnostics, Buddhists and so on. Three-quarters of Republicans identify as conservative, while only half of Democrats call themselves liberals — and for Democrats, that’s a historically high level."
"...The Democratic Party is not just more diverse in who it represents; it’s also more diverse in whom it listens to. A new Pew survey tested Democratic and Republican trust in 30 different media sources, ranging from left to right. Democrats trusted 22 of the 30 sources, including center-right outlets like The Wall Street Journal. Republicans trusted only 7 of the 30 sources, with PBS, the BBC and The Wall Street Journal the only mainstream outlets with significant trust. (The other trusted sources, in case you were wondering, were Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart.)"
"...Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and a majority of governorships. Only the House is under Democratic control. And yet Democrats haven’t just won more votes in the House elections. They won more votes over the last three Senate elections, too. They won more votes in both the 2016 and 2000 presidential elections. But America’s political system counts states and districts rather than people, and the GOP’s more rural coalition has a geographic advantage that offsets its popular disadvantage.
To win power, Democrats don’t just need to appeal to the voter in the middle. They need to appeal to voters to the right of the middle. When Democrats compete for the Senate, they are forced to appeal to an electorate that is far more conservative than the country as a whole. Similarly, gerrymandering and geography means that Democrats need to win a substantial majority in the House popular vote to take the gavel. And a recent study by Michael Geruso, Dean Spears and Ishaana Talesara calculates that the Republican Party’s Electoral College advantage means “Republicans should be expected to win 65 percent of presidential contests in which they narrowly lose the popular vote.”"
"...The alternative to democratizing America is scarier than mere polarization: it is, eventually, a legitimacy crisis that could threaten the very foundation of our political system. By 2040, 70 percent of Americans will live in the 15 largest states. That means 70 percent of America will be represented by only thirty senators, while the other 30 percent of America will be represented by seventy senators."
This situation is untenable, cannot last. A minority population cannot govern the US against the will of the majority population without blowing up the country. This is the lesson of the Trump presidency. Not yet fully learned by the Trumpnista. The resistance will only grow.
It's why you so often hear Republican politicians saying we can't simply let 51% decide the outcome of a vote, it's unfair. To which I say..."huh?"
It's telling that many here believe politics is static and not dynamic, and that what is today will always be tomorrow. How is it again that the Left thinks they're the 'smart' ones?
Anyhoo, the electoral college is perhaps the most brilliant piece of an invention in human history. They anticipated that governments would always seek to deny people their rights and doom their citizens. Since majorities can be led astray from time to time, and since we have but one life to give, the electoral college has ironically saved the bacon of many a lefty who don't realize vibrant capitalism is the only system that can begin to afford their hare-brained socialism.
Thanks for your insights on the electoral college....Am a bit surprised that you are good with someone else having the ability to pick a POTUS for you.
Don't forget that the founders had a deep-rooted distrust of executive power.
Gotta say, if you're going to troll, either get the bait down deeper or change the bait.
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:41 pm
by ggait
The real issue is the Left has comically lurched to hardcore socialism and all its attendant Vices: cracking down on free speech, exiling non believers, eradicating the profit incrntive, etc. They’ll govern like Maduro if you vote them in.
The real issue that the righties are the ones that comically scream this all the time despite no evidence. The righties (a la Hannity) care more about owning the fictional libs than reality.
The center left is why Biden leads Bernie everywhere. The center left is why Pelosi is speaker.
AOC didn't make Pelosi speaker. She beat a Dem for a safe Dem seat. Centrist, suburban Dems (many of them vets) flipped red seats to blue. The reason why Trump is now getting impeached isn't because of AOC. It is because that group of centrist veteran national security frosh told Pelosi to do it. Like Army ranger Jason Crow, now an impeachment manager.
The Dems have a strong center left. Our primary political issue in the country is that the center right has vanished. Flake, Corker, Paul Ryan, Charlie Dent, Jeb Bush and most other center righties were branded RINOs and banished.
So like most of what comes from the Trumpers, the correct response is "Project much?"
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:44 pm
by ggait
Anyhoo, the electoral college is perhaps the most brilliant piece of an invention in human history.
Yeah, it was quite tricky to figure out how to get VA and SC credit for their slave populations. The EC and the 3/5ths compromise was just the tool for that job.
It wasn't about small states at all, since VA (the largest colonial population) was the main beneficiary. That's why so many so many of our early presidents hailed from the Old Dominion.
Look forward to your spirited defense of the EC once TX goes blue. Which is the end times for the current version of the GOP. 2028 likely, but could be 2024. Maybe even 2020!
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:48 pm
by Kismet
Yep. Historical truth is often quite messy especially in this case.
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:04 pm
by a fan
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:19 pm Since majorities can be led astray from time to time, and since we have but one life to give, the electoral college has ironically saved the bacon of many a lefty who don't realize vibrant capitalism is the only system that can begin to afford their hare-brained socialism.
So the "majority can be led astray", while the minority favored by the EC can't be led astray...that's your theory? Nice logic.
Your socialized education is failing you again....
Psssst, Ggait: don't try and use things like historical facts with Pete. Pete is still can't come to terms with his socialized education and socialized airports.
If he doesn't like a word or concept like socialism, he simply makes up his own definition of the word so that his fake-libertarianism makes sense in his head.
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:06 pm
by a fan
ggait wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:41 pm
So like most of what comes from the Trumpers, the correct response is "Project much?"
Well, Hannity told Pete Brown what the libs think....so it MUST be true, GGait.....
I also like how most of the forum is to the right of Pete, and he ignores that, and just plows on.....
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:19 pm Since majorities can be led astray from time to time, and since we have but one life to give, the electoral college has ironically saved the bacon of many a lefty who don't realize vibrant capitalism is the only system that can begin to afford their hare-brained socialism.
So the "majority can be led astray", while the minority favored by the EC can't be led astray...that's your theory? Nice logic.
Your socialized education is failing you again....
Psssst, Ggait: don't try and use things like historical facts with Pete. Pete is still can't come to terms with his socialized education and socialized airports.
If he doesn't like a word or concept like socialism, he simply makes up his own definition of the word so that his fake-libertarianism makes sense in his head.
+1
Re: Conservatives and Liberals
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:25 pm
by njbill
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:19 pm
the electoral college is perhaps the most brilliant piece of an invention in human history.
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm
Important opinion piece in the Times today. Ezra Klein may be ringing the alarm bells a bit loud, but I have no arguments with the premise of his piece.
Here are some excerpts:
"...Put simply, Democrats can’t win running the kinds of campaigns and deploying the kinds of tactics that succeed for Republicans. They can move to the left — and they are — but they can’t abandon the center or, given the geography of American politics, the center-right, and still hold power. Democrats are modestly, but importantly, restrained by diversity and democracy. Republicans are not."
"...Appealing to Democrats requires appealing to a lot of different kinds of people with different interests. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on white voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal whites, African Americans, Hispanics, Asians and mixed-race voters. Republicans are overwhelmingly dependent on Christian voters. Democrats are a coalition of liberal and nonwhite Christians, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, agnostics, Buddhists and so on. Three-quarters of Republicans identify as conservative, while only half of Democrats call themselves liberals — and for Democrats, that’s a historically high level."
"...The Democratic Party is not just more diverse in who it represents; it’s also more diverse in whom it listens to. A new Pew survey tested Democratic and Republican trust in 30 different media sources, ranging from left to right. Democrats trusted 22 of the 30 sources, including center-right outlets like The Wall Street Journal. Republicans trusted only 7 of the 30 sources, with PBS, the BBC and The Wall Street Journal the only mainstream outlets with significant trust. (The other trusted sources, in case you were wondering, were Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Breitbart.)"
"...Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and a majority of governorships. Only the House is under Democratic control. And yet Democrats haven’t just won more votes in the House elections. They won more votes over the last three Senate elections, too. They won more votes in both the 2016 and 2000 presidential elections. But America’s political system counts states and districts rather than people, and the GOP’s more rural coalition has a geographic advantage that offsets its popular disadvantage.
To win power, Democrats don’t just need to appeal to the voter in the middle. They need to appeal to voters to the right of the middle. When Democrats compete for the Senate, they are forced to appeal to an electorate that is far more conservative than the country as a whole. Similarly, gerrymandering and geography means that Democrats need to win a substantial majority in the House popular vote to take the gavel. And a recent study by Michael Geruso, Dean Spears and Ishaana Talesara calculates that the Republican Party’s Electoral College advantage means “Republicans should be expected to win 65 percent of presidential contests in which they narrowly lose the popular vote.”"
"...The alternative to democratizing America is scarier than mere polarization: it is, eventually, a legitimacy crisis that could threaten the very foundation of our political system. By 2040, 70 percent of Americans will live in the 15 largest states. That means 70 percent of America will be represented by only thirty senators, while the other 30 percent of America will be represented by seventy senators."
This situation is untenable, cannot last. A minority population cannot govern the US against the will of the majority population without blowing up the country. This is the lesson of the Trump presidency. Not yet fully learned by the Trumpnista. The resistance will only grow.
It's why you so often hear Republican politicians saying we can't simply let 51% decide the outcome of a vote, it's unfair. To which I say..."huh?"
It's telling that many here believe politics is static and not dynamic, and that what is today will always be tomorrow. How is it again that the Left thinks they're the 'smart' ones?
Anyhoo, the electoral college is perhaps the most brilliant piece of an invention in human history. They anticipated that governments would always seek to deny people their rights and doom their citizens. Since majorities can be led astray from time to time, and since we have but one life to give, the electoral college has ironically saved the bacon of many a lefty who don't realize vibrant capitalism is the only system that can begin to afford their hare-brained socialism.
Thanks for your insights on the electoral college....Am a bit surprised that you are good with someone else having the ability to pick a POTUS for you.
Don't forget that the founders had a deep-rooted distrust of executive power.
Gotta say, if you're going to troll, either get the bait down deeper or change the bait.
As do I. Especially of the anti-American left variety.
The real issue is the Left has comically lurched to hardcore socialism and all its attendant Vices: cracking down on free speech, exiling non believers, eradicating the profit incrntive, etc. They’ll govern like Maduro if you vote them in.
The real issue that the righties are the ones that comically scream this all the time despite no evidence. The righties (a la Hannity) care more about owning the fictional libs than reality.
The center left is why Biden leads Bernie everywhere. The center left is why Pelosi is speaker.
AOC didn't make Pelosi speaker. She beat a Dem for a safe Dem seat. Centrist, suburban Dems (many of them vets) flipped red seats to blue. The reason why Trump is now getting impeached isn't because of AOC. It is because that group of centrist veteran national security frosh told Pelosi to do it. Like Army ranger Jason Crow, now an impeachment manager.
The Dems have a strong center left. Our primary political issue in the country is that the center right has vanished. Flake, Corker, Paul Ryan, Charlie Dent, Jeb Bush and most other center righties were branded RINOs and banished.
So like most of what comes from the Trumpers, the correct response is "Project much?"
You are going to be sorely disappointed soon. The good news is Democrats are more keen to embrace socialism than Republicans were keen to embrace Trump, so you've got that going for you!
Anyhoo, the electoral college is perhaps the most brilliant piece of an invention in human history.
Yeah, it was quite tricky to figure out how to get VA and SC credit for their slave populations. The EC and the 3/5ths compromise was just the tool for that job.
It wasn't about small states at all, since VA (the largest colonial population) was the main beneficiary. That's why so many so many of our early presidents hailed from the Old Dominion.
Look forward to your spirited defense of the EC once TX goes blue. Which is the end times for the current version of the GOP. 2028 likely, but could be 2024. Maybe even 2020!
Such one-dimensional people, our ancestors! Nothing but racist slime! Even the EC was built on racism.
In 1787, roughly 40 percent of people living in the Southern states were black slaves, who couldn’t vote. 60% of the population in Virginia. So a direct presidential election, or one with electors divvied up according to free white residents only, wouldn’t fly with the South.
So you needed the three-fifths compromise and the EC to ensure that the southern states would ratify the Constitution.
From Jimmy Mad himself: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States, and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.”
But with the 3/5ths compromise, VA got 25% of the total ECs. Which explains Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe as early presidents.
P.S. The defining characteristic of the EC (as it works today) is the winner-take-all allocation of EVs. WTA allocation is not in the Constitution. Madison was apalled that it had taken hold by the 1824 election and urged a constitutional amendment to require proportional/district EC voting rather than WTA. It was never intended to work that way:
"I agree entirely with you in thinking that the election of Presidential Electors by districts, is an amendment very proper to be brought forward at the same time with that relating to the eventual choice of President by the H. of Reps. The district mode was mostly, if not exclusively in view when the Constitution was framed and adopted."
Tl/DR: The EC was the biggest biff of the Constitution -- the original version almost caused a civil war in 1800, and the 1804 version 2 wasn't that much better.
Anyhoo, the electoral college is perhaps the most brilliant piece of an invention in human history.
Yeah, it was quite tricky to figure out how to get VA and SC credit for their slave populations. The EC and the 3/5ths compromise was just the tool for that job.
It wasn't about small states at all, since VA (the largest colonial population) was the main beneficiary. That's why so many so many of our early presidents hailed from the Old Dominion.
Look forward to your spirited defense of the EC once TX goes blue. Which is the end times for the current version of the GOP. 2028 likely, but could be 2024. Maybe even 2020!
Such one-dimensional people, our ancestors! Nothing but racist slime! Even the EC was built on racism.
Ummm I believe the problem was the US Government and it’s policies that supported racism....and lack of effort to protect the rights of US Citizens (like normal people).
So the "majority can be led astray", while the minority favored by the EC can't be led astray...that's your theory? Nice logic.