LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:41 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have... Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

Mask slipped years ago…..

No personal attacks...

admin wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:54 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:41 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have... Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

Mask slipped years ago…..

No personal attacks...

Got it. Four years of home-away in conference play leads to chippiness....

Good stuff...

The Weakness of the Despot

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/ ... ket-newtab

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:50 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?

Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.

I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have, old salt, but you have no credibility at all to lose.

Both Estonian and Polish troops served in Afghanistan, Estonia for a decade and Poland for nearly two decades, all as part of their responsibility to NATO and the United States, the only NATO nation to ever invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Estonia and Poland are not “former Russian provinces,” they are independent nations and NATO allies who answered America’s call after we were attacked on September 11, 2001.

And instead of standing by these allies, you choose instead to spread the smears of the malignant war criminal, Vladimir Putin, and his murderous fascist state that is contemporary Russia?

Your support of Putin and Russia makes you a supporter of a fascist and fascism.

You can end any pretense, which must be tiring for you, since you are once again showing your true colors.

Just come out and admit it … you admire Putin because he is a fascist, and you are rooting for Russia against Ukraine because you, in your heart, support fascism. You would not be the first American fascist in history, and you will not be the last. And you have plenty of company among the Trump cultists.

That is what you represent, is it not … the latest manifestation of the American fascist movement?

Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

DocBarrister

If you put down your pom poms & remove your head from under your cheerleader skirt, you might see things more clearly.
The US can't defend every nation to the same degree we defend S Korea.

The US has made a massive commitment to Poland, Estonia & the rest of NATO's E flank since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 -- doing & contributing more than the rest of NATO combined. Ditto with the forces & material we've deployed to reinforce that E flank since Russia invaded Ukraine.

imho -- the Biden admin has gone above & beyond in consulting with our NATO allies during these harrowing times.
They have prudently followed the best advice of their national security experts, including their Intel services, DoD & military leaders, all while presenting a united front. They have consulted in good faith with our NATO allies & have not acted or spoken out without their concurrence.
They deserve the same good faith solidarity & consultation from the rest of the alliance members.

Here's what I will admit. I do not wish to be drawn into another stupid European war over borders, this one between corrupt tribes of Russian oligarchs & their EUroburgher patrons.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:12 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:50 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?

Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.

I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have, old salt, but you have no credibility at all to lose.

Both Estonian and Polish troops served in Afghanistan, Estonia for a decade and Poland for nearly two decades, all as part of their responsibility to NATO and the United States, the only NATO nation to ever invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Estonia and Poland are not “former Russian provinces,” they are independent nations and NATO allies who answered America’s call after we were attacked on September 11, 2001.

And instead of standing by these allies, you choose instead to spread the smears of the malignant war criminal, Vladimir Putin, and his murderous fascist state that is contemporary Russia?

Your support of Putin and Russia makes you a supporter of a fascist and fascism.

You can end any pretense, which must be tiring for you, since you are once again showing your true colors.

Just come out and admit it … you admire Putin because he is a fascist, and you are rooting for Russia against Ukraine because you, in your heart, support fascism. You would not be the first American fascist in history, and you will not be the last. And you have plenty of company among the Trump cultists.

That is what you represent, is it not … the latest manifestation of the American fascist movement?

Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

DocBarrister

If you put down your pom poms & remove your head from under your cheerleader skirt, you might see things more clearly.
The US can't defend every nation to the same degree we defend S Korea.

The US has made a massive commitment to Poland, Estonia & the rest of NATO's E flank since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 -- doing & contributing more than the rest of NATO combined. Ditto with the forces & material we've deployed to reinforce that E flank since Russia invaded Ukraine.

imho -- the Biden admin has gone above & beyond in consulting with our NATO allies during these harrowing times.
They have prudently followed the best advice of their national security experts, including their Intel services, DoD & military leaders, all while presenting a united front. They have consulted in good faith with our NATO allies & have not acted or spoken out without their concurrence.
They deserve the same good faith solidarity & consultation from the rest of the alliance members.

Here's what I will admit. I do not wish to be drawn into another stupid European war over borders, this one between corrupt tribes of Russian oligarchs & their EUroburgher patrons.

chippiness returned in red above

I think your part in green is the most positive thing you've ever written about a Dem admin, national security experts, IC and anyone else you've previously dismissed as "Deep State". And I agree with you that they have been prudent, and I'd say rather masterful at building that "solidarity" and "united front".

But I think this goes further than what you've been willing to include. While you emphasize the US' "massive" contributions, both past and present, you have not been as enthusiastic, if at all, about the dramatic shift in European commitments. Yes, they have been shocked out of their complacency and focus on monetary interests, but let's acknowledge that they are going to suffer much more economically from what they are and will be doing to push back against this aggression on their flanks. Let's acknowledge this major shift. And perhaps there's actually an insight there that they are reaching, that you're not yet willing to reach...that Putin must be stopped fast if the world is to go forward again, without an enormous cataclysm.

And your last sentence is what bothers me most.

You are dismissing this war of brutal aggression as simply between "corrupt oligarchs", dismissing the free Ukrainians and their aspirations for democracy and prosperity as immaterial.

And by extension, dismissing democracy versus totalitarianism as immaterial.

Europe never paid what it agreed to for NATO.

Trump told Europe it made no sense for them to depend on Russian oil and gas… not pay for NATO .. and then expect the USA to defend them from ….. wait for it …..Russia. Trump offered Europe American natural gas and oil and they took Russia’s instead.

Trump is the only person to ever bring this up in front of the world. All our other leaders are too stupid.

{Europe} expect(s) the USA to defend them from ….. wait for it …..Russia

This is a point that has been overlooked by many commentators on all sides of the issue.

Just the other day I was on a YouTube chat where several people called for the resurrection of the military draft in the USA to serve as a deterrent against Putin's ambitions. Problem was that these callers had one thing in common: they were all Europeans. When people like me challenged them on this none would admit it. But clearly they were. In other words they were looking for the USA to do their fighting for them. Had a similar problem in a tennis website that I routinely post on and have done for many years. Several Europeans were calling for American military action to stop Putin. I immediately replied, Whoa ~ when are you Europeans going to do your own fighting and when are you going to pay for it. Several of these geniuses started crying about how (somehow) it was the USA's job to do all that sh1t. Fυςk no sez I. It's time for you people to do your own fighting. Naturally that did not go well with them just like those Euros in the YT chat.

I personally don't give a flying sh1π about Putin and his ambitions. They are of no consequence to me. We have our own problems here in the USA with the infrastructure crumbling down, with ghetto drug wars, and with police acting like Gestapo troops committed a holocaust against innocent people. I say let's solve our problems before we do anything for anyone else. After all, none of those people overseas do a godd@mn thing for any of us. And in case any of you feel USA needs to be world police, where the fυςk were you when African countries engaged in their own brand of genocide that resulted in the deaths of millions for the past 20 years?

Let's solve our own problems first. Anything less is unpatriotic.

Or...we can walk and chew gum.

No argument that we have serious problems that need fixing here at home.

Also no argument that genocides are truly awful, wherever they may be.

Totally agree that it's high time the Europeans step up.

But it's not true that it's none of our business if totalitarianism is unchecked internationally, that the rules of the road not only favor the strong but can be ignored entirely through sheer aggression.

And it's not true that our prosperity doesn't depend on an international system of rule of law. Can't afford to address any of our domestic priorities, if the international system fails.

And aggression unchecked never stops.

BTW, I can equally make the argument that we need to address our domestic issues in order to have the strength to maintain that international system.

Walk and chew gum.

If the international rule of law is such an urgent priority, the world should have begun by stopping Bush and his colonialist agenda which killed over one million innocents. In 20 years the world has done nothing about it just as in Africa where 20 years of internecine warfare was ignored. Why the sudden selective interest in ROL? Selective enforcement of such illusory theories do not serve to end them. Only a uniform application of principles does.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:00 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:12 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:50 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?

Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.

I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have, old salt, but you have no credibility at all to lose.

Both Estonian and Polish troops served in Afghanistan, Estonia for a decade and Poland for nearly two decades, all as part of their responsibility to NATO and the United States, the only NATO nation to ever invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Estonia and Poland are not “former Russian provinces,” they are independent nations and NATO allies who answered America’s call after we were attacked on September 11, 2001.

And instead of standing by these allies, you choose instead to spread the smears of the malignant war criminal, Vladimir Putin, and his murderous fascist state that is contemporary Russia?

Your support of Putin and Russia makes you a supporter of a fascist and fascism.

You can end any pretense, which must be tiring for you, since you are once again showing your true colors.

Just come out and admit it … you admire Putin because he is a fascist, and you are rooting for Russia against Ukraine because you, in your heart, support fascism. You would not be the first American fascist in history, and you will not be the last. And you have plenty of company among the Trump cultists.

That is what you represent, is it not … the latest manifestation of the American fascist movement?

Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

DocBarrister

If you put down your pom poms & remove your head from under your cheerleader skirt, you might see things more clearly.
The US can't defend every nation to the same degree we defend S Korea.

The US has made a massive commitment to Poland, Estonia & the rest of NATO's E flank since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 -- doing & contributing more than the rest of NATO combined. Ditto with the forces & material we've deployed to reinforce that E flank since Russia invaded Ukraine.

imho -- the Biden admin has gone above & beyond in consulting with our NATO allies during these harrowing times.
They have prudently followed the best advice of their national security experts, including their Intel services, DoD & military leaders, all while presenting a united front. They have consulted in good faith with our NATO allies & have not acted or spoken out without their concurrence.
They deserve the same good faith solidarity & consultation from the rest of the alliance members.

Here's what I will admit. I do not wish to be drawn into another stupid European war over borders, this one between corrupt tribes of Russian oligarchs & their EUroburgher patrons.

chippiness returned in red above

I think your part in green is the most positive thing you've ever written about a Dem admin, national security experts, IC and anyone else you've previously dismissed as "Deep State". And I agree with you that they have been prudent, and I'd say rather masterful at building that "solidarity" and "united front".

But I think this goes further than what you've been willing to include. While you emphasize the US' "massive" contributions, both past and present, you have not been as enthusiastic, if at all, about the dramatic shift in European commitments. Yes, they have been shocked out of their complacency and focus on monetary interests, but let's acknowledge that they are going to suffer much more economically from what they are and will be doing to push back against this aggression on their flanks. Let's acknowledge this major shift. And perhaps there's actually an insight there that they are reaching, that you're not yet willing to reach...that Putin must be stopped fast if the world is to go forward again, without an enormous cataclysm.

And your last sentence is what bothers me most.

You are dismissing this war of brutal aggression as simply between "corrupt oligarchs", dismissing the free Ukrainians and their aspirations for democracy and prosperity as immaterial.

And by extension, dismissing democracy versus totalitarianism as immaterial.

Spoke to a Captain in the Italian Navy last week. Asked him about the conflict...in short, "this is not our war and not should it be".

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:00 pm I think your part in green is the most positive thing you've ever written about a Dem admin, national security experts, IC and anyone else you've previously dismissed as "Deep State". And I agree with you that they have been prudent, and I'd say rather masterful at building that "solidarity" and "united front".

But I think this goes further than what you've been willing to include. While you emphasize the US' "massive" contributions, both past and present, you have not been as enthusiastic, if at all, about the dramatic shift in European commitments. Yes, they have been shocked out of their complacency and focus on monetary interests, but let's acknowledge that they are going to suffer much more economically from what they are and will be doing to push back against this aggression on their flanks. Let's acknowledge this major shift. And perhaps there's actually an insight there that they are reaching, that you're not yet willing to reach...that Putin must be stopped fast if the world is to go forward again, without an enormous cataclysm.

And your last sentence is what bothers me most.

You are dismissing this war of brutal aggression as simply between "corrupt oligarchs", dismissing the free Ukrainians and their aspirations for democracy and prosperity as immaterial.

And by extension, dismissing democracy versus totalitarianism as immaterial.

This is the first positive thing I've seen a Dem admin do re. Ukraine. Unfortunately, it took a war to bring it about.

I will applaud the increase in NATO solidarity when I see it in more than just rhetoric, when I see an increase in combat power & deployments, rather than just the donations of weapons stockpiles (most with an assurance of backfill by the US)

Likewise with extolling Ukrainian democracy. We were promised democracy & corruption reform after the last 2 revolutions & regime changes. This one is being purchased in blood, maybe it will emerge & endure.

It is crucial to recognize the personality cults surrounding Putin, Trump, and Xi for what they are … components of a global fascist movement. Fascism develops around authoritarian personality cults with no respect for democracy or freedom (or, importantly, the press). Fascist movements also have a strong component of racism and bigotry, and are generally supported by the ignorant and stupid.

Both Russia and China have a long history of fascism, including the deadly cults of Stalin and Mao, both of which were responsible for the deaths of more than ten million people. Fascism has arisen in some of the world’s greatest cultures, including China, Italy, Germany, Russia, and Japan. Is it surprising that fascism is rising here in the United States, ensconced in what remains of the Republican Party and the Cult of Trump? Fascism has also raised its ugly visage in the pro-Putin, pro-Russian far right.

A document found by federal prosecutors in the possession of a far-right leader contained a detailed plan to surveil and storm government buildings around the Capitol on Jan. 6 last year, people familiar with the document said on Monday.

The document, titled “1776 Returns,” was cited by prosecutors last week in charging the far-right leader, Enrique Tarrio, the former head of the Proud Boys extremist group, with conspiracy. The indictment of Mr. Tarrio described the document in general terms, but the people familiar with it added substantial new details about the scope and complexity of the plan it set out for directing an effort to occupy six House and Senate office buildings and the Supreme Court last Jan. 6.

The document does not specifically mention an attack on the Capitol building itself. But in targeting high-profile government buildings in the immediate area and in the detailed timeline it set out, the plan closely resembles what actually unfolded when the Capitol was stormed by a pro-Trump mob intent on disrupting congressional certification of President Biden’s Electoral College victory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/14/us/p ... ument.html

We have even seen signs of fascism on our own little forum, among the supporters of Trump, Putin, and Russia.

I will leave it to social historians to explain why fascism tends to arise concurrently around the world, as it did in the 1920s and 1930s. Fascism is clearly on the rise again around the globe.

And yes, that includes our little community here.

DocBarrister

Those who praised Putin early on in this war (including those on Fox News, WSJ, the Republican Party, and here on our own forum) look fairly foolish now. From CNN and General Petraeus.

Petraeus praised the actions of the Biden administration and its allies in recent weeks and noted that Russian President Vladimir Putin, instead of making Russia great again, has made NATO great again. He predicts the most likely near-term outcome of the war in Ukraine will be the continuation of a bloody quagmire for Russia that is largely indecisive, even as it inflicts greater and greater loss of life, infrastructure and basic services on the Ukrainian people. There is, however, also the possibility of a negotiated resolution, as both Moscow and Kyiv recognize the damage and destruction being done to their countries.

… PETER BERGEN: Is the Russian military's performance in Ukraine surprising to you?

DAVID PETRAEUS: Somewhat surprising, but not entirely. And there are many reasons for the Russians' abysmal performance. First of all, they're fighting against a very determined, quite capable Ukrainian force that is composed of special ops, conventional forces, territorial forces and even private citizens, all of whom are determined not to allow Russia to achieve its objectives. They are fighting for their national survival, their homeland and their way of life, and they have the home-field advantage, knowing the terrain and communities.

But beyond that, the Russians are just surprisingly unprofessional. They clearly have very poor standards when it comes to performing basic tactical tasks such as achieving combined arms operations, involving armor, infantry, engineers, artillery and mortars. They are very poor at maintaining their vehicles and weapon systems and have abandoned many of them. They are also poor at resupply and logistical tasks.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/15/opinions ... index.html

DocBarrister

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:00 pm I think your part in green is the most positive thing you've ever written about a Dem admin, national security experts, IC and anyone else you've previously dismissed as "Deep State". And I agree with you that they have been prudent, and I'd say rather masterful at building that "solidarity" and "united front".

But I think this goes further than what you've been willing to include. While you emphasize the US' "massive" contributions, both past and present, you have not been as enthusiastic, if at all, about the dramatic shift in European commitments. Yes, they have been shocked out of their complacency and focus on monetary interests, but let's acknowledge that they are going to suffer much more economically from what they are and will be doing to push back against this aggression on their flanks. Let's acknowledge this major shift. And perhaps there's actually an insight there that they are reaching, that you're not yet willing to reach...that Putin must be stopped fast if the world is to go forward again, without an enormous cataclysm.

And your last sentence is what bothers me most.

You are dismissing this war of brutal aggression as simply between "corrupt oligarchs", dismissing the free Ukrainians and their aspirations for democracy and prosperity as immaterial.

And by extension, dismissing democracy versus totalitarianism as immaterial.

This is the first positive thing I've seen a Dem admin do re. Ukraine. Unfortunately, it took a war to bring it about.

I will applaud the increase in NATO solidarity when I see it in more than just rhetoric, when I see an increase in combat power & deployments, rather than just the donations of weapons stockpiles (most with an assurance of backfill by the US)

Likewise with extolling Ukrainian democracy. We were promised democracy & corruption reform after the last 2 revolutions & regime changes. This one is being purchased in blood, maybe it will emerge & endure.

You should be happy Salty - Germany just announced that it will buy 35 US-made F-35A fighter jets, the first major arms purchase to be publicly confirmed since Chancellor Olaf Scholz committed to ramping up his country's defense spending in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. These will replace their aging Tornados and be nuclear capable.

Now you just need to get to work work on Estonia.

Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:45 pm You should be happy Salty - Germany just announced that it will buy 35 US-made F-35A fighter jets, the first major arms purchase to be publicly confirmed since Chancellor Olaf Scholz committed to ramping up his country's defense spending in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. These will replace their aging Tornados and be nuclear capable.

Now you just need to get to work work on Estonia.

I posted about that a while back
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... fense-hike

The F-35 was a contender to replace Germany's old, barely airworthy Tornadoes in the NATO nuclear delivery mission, but the Germans were initially trying to find a EUro-made replacement. After the invasion, they went for the F-35 as part of their defense budget increase.

For Estonia -- a donated Sophwith Camel is enroute from the RAF Museum.

Hoo Boy …

Biden totally screwed the pooch

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1647351541

He bumbled his way into the dollar losing reserve status and the USA dropping like a rock.

The world watched with horror at the USA sanctioning Russia and they don’t want the USA to do it to them in the future.

Now Russia, China , India and Saudi Arabia are starting the replacement of the dollar. The ramifications of that due to Biden’s mismanagement and Bumbling are gigantic.

The USA power and standard of living will collapse. There are positives for the culture however. The liberals will be rendered powerless without the ability to print money of value and traditional common sense will be necessary for survival.

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:18 pm It is crucial to recognize the personality cults surrounding Putin, Trump, and Xi for what they are … components of a global fascist movement. Fascism develops around authoritarian personality cults with no respect for democracy or freedom (or, importantly, the press). Fascist movements also have a strong component of racism and bigotry, and are generally supported by the ignorant and stupid.

Both Russia and China have a long history of fascism, including the deadly cults of Stalin and Mao, both of which were responsible for the deaths of more than ten million people. Fascism has arisen in some of the world’s greatest cultures, including China, Italy, Germany, Russia, and Japan. Is it surprising that fascism is rising here in the United States, ensconced in what remains of the Republican Party and the Cult of Trump? Fascism has also raised its ugly visage in the pro-Putin, pro-Russian far right.

A document found by federal prosecutors in the possession of a far-right leader contained a detailed plan to surveil and storm government buildings around the Capitol on Jan. 6 last year, people familiar with the document said on Monday.

The document, titled “1776 Returns,” was cited by prosecutors last week in charging the far-right leader, Enrique Tarrio, the former head of the Proud Boys extremist group, with conspiracy. The indictment of Mr. Tarrio described the document in general terms, but the people familiar with it added substantial new details about the scope and complexity of the plan it set out for directing an effort to occupy six House and Senate office buildings and the Supreme Court last Jan. 6.

The document does not specifically mention an attack on the Capitol building itself. But in targeting high-profile government buildings in the immediate area and in the detailed timeline it set out, the plan closely resembles what actually unfolded when the Capitol was stormed by a pro-Trump mob intent on disrupting congressional certification of President Biden’s Electoral College victory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/14/us/p ... ument.html

We have even seen signs of fascism on our own little forum, among the supporters of Trump, Putin, and Russia.

I will leave it to social historians to explain why fascism tends to arise concurrently around the world, as it did in the 1920s and 1930s. Fascism is clearly on the rise again around the globe.

And yes, that includes our little community here.

DocBarrister

I assume Doc is unaware that some January 6 protesters have been held in Solitary confinement with no bail, for *non-violent* activities?!

Did he hear that the leftist cackling hyena squad of The View just demanded that the DOJ arrest Fox News hosts for having the temerity to offer opposing opinions?!

I also assume Doc isn’t aware of the Canadian goon squad called out by Justin Trudeau to beat up protesters and seize their personal checking accounts without any charges or court order?!

I wonder if Doc B knows about the concerted speech suppression efforts of well funded leftist propaganda outfits like Media Matters?!

Sounds ‘fascist’ to me.

But please, continue with your history lesson! It’s fascinating.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:54 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:00 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:12 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:50 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?

Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.

I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have, old salt, but you have no credibility at all to lose.

Both Estonian and Polish troops served in Afghanistan, Estonia for a decade and Poland for nearly two decades, all as part of their responsibility to NATO and the United States, the only NATO nation to ever invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Estonia and Poland are not “former Russian provinces,” they are independent nations and NATO allies who answered America’s call after we were attacked on September 11, 2001.

And instead of standing by these allies, you choose instead to spread the smears of the malignant war criminal, Vladimir Putin, and his murderous fascist state that is contemporary Russia?

Your support of Putin and Russia makes you a supporter of a fascist and fascism.

You can end any pretense, which must be tiring for you, since you are once again showing your true colors.

Just come out and admit it … you admire Putin because he is a fascist, and you are rooting for Russia against Ukraine because you, in your heart, support fascism. You would not be the first American fascist in history, and you will not be the last. And you have plenty of company among the Trump cultists.

That is what you represent, is it not … the latest manifestation of the American fascist movement?

Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

DocBarrister

If you put down your pom poms & remove your head from under your cheerleader skirt, you might see things more clearly.
The US can't defend every nation to the same degree we defend S Korea.

The US has made a massive commitment to Poland, Estonia & the rest of NATO's E flank since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 -- doing & contributing more than the rest of NATO combined. Ditto with the forces & material we've deployed to reinforce that E flank since Russia invaded Ukraine.

imho -- the Biden admin has gone above & beyond in consulting with our NATO allies during these harrowing times.
They have prudently followed the best advice of their national security experts, including their Intel services, DoD & military leaders, all while presenting a united front. They have consulted in good faith with our NATO allies & have not acted or spoken out without their concurrence.
They deserve the same good faith solidarity & consultation from the rest of the alliance members.

Here's what I will admit. I do not wish to be drawn into another stupid European war over borders, this one between corrupt tribes of Russian oligarchs & their EUroburgher patrons.

chippiness returned in red above

I think your part in green is the most positive thing you've ever written about a Dem admin, national security experts, IC and anyone else you've previously dismissed as "Deep State". And I agree with you that they have been prudent, and I'd say rather masterful at building that "solidarity" and "united front".

But I think this goes further than what you've been willing to include. While you emphasize the US' "massive" contributions, both past and present, you have not been as enthusiastic, if at all, about the dramatic shift in European commitments. Yes, they have been shocked out of their complacency and focus on monetary interests, but let's acknowledge that they are going to suffer much more economically from what they are and will be doing to push back against this aggression on their flanks. Let's acknowledge this major shift. And perhaps there's actually an insight there that they are reaching, that you're not yet willing to reach...that Putin must be stopped fast if the world is to go forward again, without an enormous cataclysm.

And your last sentence is what bothers me most.

You are dismissing this war of brutal aggression as simply between "corrupt oligarchs", dismissing the free Ukrainians and their aspirations for democracy and prosperity as immaterial.

And by extension, dismissing democracy versus totalitarianism as immaterial.

Spoke to a Captain in the Italian Navy last week. Asked him about the conflict...in short, "this is not our war and not should it be".

Interesting, Italian Navy?
Probably a joke in there somewhere, but let's not go there.

One guy.

I think I'd look at the Canadian Parliament' or UK Parliament's reception of Zelensky as a better reflection of their appreciation of Ukraine fighting this fight for all of us who believe in democracy.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:03 pm

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:18 pm It is crucial to recognize the personality cults surrounding Putin, Trump, and Xi for what they are … components of a global fascist movement. Fascism develops around authoritarian personality cults with no respect for democracy or freedom (or, importantly, the press). Fascist movements also have a strong component of racism and bigotry, and are generally supported by the ignorant and stupid.

Both Russia and China have a long history of fascism, including the deadly cults of Stalin and Mao, both of which were responsible for the deaths of more than ten million people. Fascism has arisen in some of the world’s greatest cultures, including China, Italy, Germany, Russia, and Japan. Is it surprising that fascism is rising here in the United States, ensconced in what remains of the Republican Party and the Cult of Trump? Fascism has also raised its ugly visage in the pro-Putin, pro-Russian far right.

A document found by federal prosecutors in the possession of a far-right leader contained a detailed plan to surveil and storm government buildings around the Capitol on Jan. 6 last year, people familiar with the document said on Monday.

The document, titled “1776 Returns,” was cited by prosecutors last week in charging the far-right leader, Enrique Tarrio, the former head of the Proud Boys extremist group, with conspiracy. The indictment of Mr. Tarrio described the document in general terms, but the people familiar with it added substantial new details about the scope and complexity of the plan it set out for directing an effort to occupy six House and Senate office buildings and the Supreme Court last Jan. 6.

The document does not specifically mention an attack on the Capitol building itself. But in targeting high-profile government buildings in the immediate area and in the detailed timeline it set out, the plan closely resembles what actually unfolded when the Capitol was stormed by a pro-Trump mob intent on disrupting congressional certification of President Biden’s Electoral College victory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/14/us/p ... ument.html

We have even seen signs of fascism on our own little forum, among the supporters of Trump, Putin, and Russia.

I will leave it to social historians to explain why fascism tends to arise concurrently around the world, as it did in the 1920s and 1930s. Fascism is clearly on the rise again around the globe.

And yes, that includes our little community here.

DocBarrister

I assume Doc is unaware that some January 6 protesters have been held in Solitary confinement with no bail, for *non-violent* activities?!

Did he hear that the leftist cackling hyena squad of The View just demanded that the DOJ arrest Fox News hosts for having the temerity to offer opposing opinions?!

I also assume Doc isn’t aware of the Canadian goon squad called out by Justin Trudeau to beat up protesters and seize their personal checking accounts without any charges or court order?!

I wonder if Doc B knows about the concerted speech suppression efforts of well funded leftist propaganda outfits like Media Matters?!

Sounds ‘fascist’ to me.

But please, continue with your history lesson! It’s fascinating.

it's funny how you sound so much like Essex at times.

Fascists are always on the side of centralized control and growing government.

Patriots and freedom lovers are for shrinking government and the supremacy of the individual
.

Fascists are easy to identify