Same Party, Different House
https://fanlax.com/forum/
My bad…you “seemed” to suggest we pacify Putin. It’s our fault again. We got what we had coming. Like Trump said, America ain’t so innocent either…..who am I blaming? Why do you care all of a sudden?old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:01 pmHow the F did I pacify Putin ? I have no influence, even in this piddly discussion group.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:46 pmWhat are you doing about it? I am just calling out your years of pacifying Ol’ Vlad….you said standing up to Russia doesn’t matter. Talked down down to plain folk…. Why do you care all of a sudden? Five minutes ago you intimated it’s our fault again. Yoy can’t help yourself. You are as bad as Trump when it comes to criticizing Putin and Russia…..I know “you get him”….old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:42 pmPeople are dying by the thousands, millions of lives disrupted, we are on the verge of a war with Russia which could engulf all of Europe,Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:53 pm The United States of America is raging a war of revenge on Russia…
Love,
Old Soviet
& you see it as a source for trolling & childish score settling. Well done.
Whining about something is not "standing up to Russia". We've been meddling in Ukraine's internal politics since 2004. We engineered 2 revolutions, 2 regime changes, trained & equipped their proxy army & encouraged them to seek membership in NATO & the UN.
After they did all that, Putin reacted as he said he would. Then we feign surprise & tell our Ukrainian proxies there's nothing more we can do.
Do you think our policy in that part of the world since the end of the Cold War might have something to do with what is happening now ?
You are like the snake handler who blames the snake when it bites him.
The Ukraine belongs to Russia. Putin is justified.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
It's our fault if we stick our hand in his den & he bites us.
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
...because they have such a small GDP. The '80's are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
Putin is justified.old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:24 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
It's our fault if we stick our hand in his den & he bites us.
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
...because they have such a small GDP. The '80's are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
Putin is predictable, just like a snake. ...especially when he rattles.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:27 pmPutin is justified.old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:24 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
It's our fault if we stick our hand in his den & he bites us.
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
...because they have such a small GDP. The '80's are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
Anyone say he wasn’t predictable, Commodore?old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:31 pmPutin is predictable, just like a snake. ...especially when he rattles.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:27 pmPutin is justified.old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:24 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
It's our fault if we stick our hand in his den & he bites us.
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
...because they have such a small GDP. The '80's are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
I say again.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:49 pmAnyone say he wasn’t predictable, Commodore?old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:31 pmPutin is predictable, just like a snake. ...especially when he rattles.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:27 pmPutin is justified.old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:24 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
It's our fault if we stick our hand in his den & he bites us.
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
...because they have such a small GDP. The '80's are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
How does this equate to a guy bombing maternity wards of hospitals? Rolling tanks on the ground into their country and trying to assassinate their democratically elected leader?old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:01 pmHow the F did I pacify Putin ? I have no influence, even in this piddly discussion group.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:46 pmWhat are you doing about it? I am just calling out your years of pacifying Ol’ Vlad….you said standing up to Russia doesn’t matter. Talked down down to plain folk…. Why do you care all of a sudden? Five minutes ago you intimated it’s our fault again. Yoy can’t help yourself. You are as bad as Trump when it comes to criticizing Putin and Russia…..I know “you get him”….old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:42 pmPeople are dying by the thousands, millions of lives disrupted, we are on the verge of a war with Russia which could engulf all of Europe,Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:53 pm The United States of America is raging a war of revenge on Russia…
Love,
Old Soviet
& you see it as a source for trolling & childish score settling. Well done.
Whining about something is not "standing up to Russia". We've been meddling in Ukraine's internal politics since 2004. We engineered 2 revolutions, 2 regime changes, trained & equipped their proxy army & encouraged them to seek membership in NATO & the UN.
After they did all that, Putin reacted as he said he would. Then we feign surprise & tell our Ukrainian proxies there's nothing more we can do.
Do you think our policy in that part of the world since the end of the Cold War might have something to do with what is happening now ?
You are like the snake handler who blames the snake when it bites him.
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:52 amHow does this equate to a guy bombing maternity wards of hospitals? Rolling tanks on the ground into their country and trying to assassinate their democratically elected leader?old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:01 pm We've been meddling in Ukraine's internal politics since 2004. We engineered 2 revolutions, 2 regime changes, trained & equipped their proxy army & encouraged them to seek membership in NATO & the UN.
After they did all that, Putin reacted as he said he would. Then we feign surprise & tell our Ukrainian proxies there's nothing more we can do.
Do you think our policy in that part of the world since the end of the Cold War might have something to do with what is happening now ?
You are like the snake handler who blames the snake when it bites him.
I never made that equivalency, you are. I've said that Putin is the most dangerous human being since Hitler & he should be dragged into the ICC if his people don't kill him first. Is that not dramatic enough ?
Engineered-this is incongruous with your argument that they’ve proven their self determination unless, which would be consistent with other political arguments that you’ve made, you don’t believe that voting has any value, only war, in proving self determination.
I said they have not demonstrated their nationalism, reduced their corruption, or fought for their independence, until now.
Their status as a nation is an accident of history, just as Belarus, Georgia & all the other former SSR's are. Maybe Zelensky will go down in history as their Washington, Bismark & Churchill.
So you are going to use constant innuendo but try to leave room to have plausible deniability or do you not see the string of arguments you make in their entirety over a period of time and volume?old salt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:08 amFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:52 amHow does this equate to a guy bombing maternity wards of hospitals? Rolling tanks on the ground into their country and trying to assassinate their democratically elected leader?old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:01 pm We've been meddling in Ukraine's internal politics since 2004. We engineered 2 revolutions, 2 regime changes, trained & equipped their proxy army & encouraged them to seek membership in NATO & the UN.
After they did all that, Putin reacted as he said he would. Then we feign surprise & tell our Ukrainian proxies there's nothing more we can do.
Do you think our policy in that part of the world since the end of the Cold War might have something to do with what is happening now ?
You are like the snake handler who blames the snake when it bites him.
I never made that equivalency, you are. I've said that Putin is the most dangerous human being since Hitler & he should be dragged into the ICC if his people don't kill him first. Is that not dramatic enough ?
Engineered-this is incongruous with your argument that they’ve proven their self determination unless, which would be consistent with other political arguments that you’ve made, you don’t believe that voting has any value, only war, in proving self determination.
I said they have not demonstrated their nationalism, reduced their corruption, or fought for their independence, until now.
Their status as a nation is an accident of history, just as Belarus, Georgia & all the other former SSR's are. Maybe Zelensky will go down in history as their Washington, Bismark & Churchill.
+1. Hopefully the latest round of talks ultimately leads toward Russia's exist and Ukraines's neutrality.a fan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:33 pmIt's always nice to have common ground, Tech.tech37 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:56 amAs much as it pains me to admita fan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 amI never said a word about surrendering. We all know that Ukraine won't fall.....Russia simply can't hold the entire country. That's not an option for Putin.jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:08 pm... I don't think people here are considering what Zelensky's people will think of him if he surrenders to the Russians. He doesn't have the ability to surrender to Putin.a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:27 pmI can’t either!seacoaster wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:16 pm His f*cking nation and freedom is at stake; he is speaking and lobbying for generations. I can't blame him for playing every card, every Zimmerman Telegram, he finds lying around:
https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status ... 5327253504
My point is—-he has to know what it takes to get Putin to stop. Bravery won’t do it, as admirable as it is.
What’s best for his people. If he keeps that at the front of his mind, he’ll find a way to get Putin out
What I'm talking about is: is Zelensky smart enough to give Putin his BS face saving nonsense he can take to his people and say "see, I made this happen".
I'm back to my suggestion of Ukraine pledging to remain neutral. Pretty obvious to Putin and the rest of us that Ukraine doesn't NEED NATO. They'll get along just fine with with armaments from the US et. al.
So that's the deal-----pledge neutrality, Putin leaves. I have NO IDEA what else would get Putin to back off. Death?a fan is right on this one. BTW, he's most likely not overjoyed to have me in agreement.
A couple weeks ago I suggested a stick and carrot approach, simply put, slam Putin with sanctions but then provide assurances that would allow for his "face-saving" exit. IMHO, the only practical solution to avoid escalation and WW3. The time for that is now. That window of opportunity may be quickly closing though.
Say NO to a No Fly Zone!
I agree with you, too....about a no fly zone. MUCH better to give Ukrainians stingers and things that make Russia think twice about using planes.
We can't get suckered into a war...we meaning the US or NATO. We need to buy time, and pressure Zelensky to go neutral BEFORE Putin has land that he wants to keep.
Then everyone gets what they want----NO ONE will invade Ukraine in the future, having seen what a mess Putin made of it. Ukraine gets their independence and land. WIn-win, if you ask me.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:09 pmThe Ukraine belongs to Russia. Putin is justified.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
That’s very linear thinking and would have to assume that all variables and externalities are completely equal the way it’s been presented. I don’t want to get into a discussion in Spain but the argument isn’t real rigorous which I’ve suggested previously.Brooklyn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:22 amTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:09 pmThe Ukraine belongs to Russia. Putin is justified.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
Europeans and the USA pols have their double standards:
*When Catalonia declared independence from Madrid, both sided with the Falangists and refused to recognize its freedom.
*When Ukraine declared independence from Moscow, both sided with Kyiv.
*But when Donbas declared independence from Kyiv, both refused to recognize their freedom.
As always, the problem is the failure to apply political standards on a uniform basis.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:08 amSorry guys, it's not a declaration of war. Simply isn't.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:58 amrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:27 amMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:54 pm
None of that is demanding a declaration of war. What, than, IS it demanding? What actions ?
But hey, why not just exaggerate? It's called lying.
He’s just playing dumb. Of course it’s a declaration of war.
Kinzinger has been on a media tear for two weeks now, ramping up his simple-minded hysteria. He really is a daft cretin, zero intellect and nuance, so of course he’s the DNC’s favorite Republican these days. You could toss this schlub $20 and he’d say whatever you want him to. In this case however, he’s being paid with deep-pocketed Brookings shadow pimp cash, which of course no one in the public understands and the media won’t reveal because they’re in too (look at the paid speeches that ‘journos’ like Natasha Bertrand and Ken Dilanian give…Aspen Institute, Bilderberg Conference, Brookings natch…and you think they’re honest journalists?!?!?).
What is a no fly zone other than a declaration of war? Does MD actually think enemy planes miraculously fall out of the sky in a ‘no fly zone’. Who exactly hits those Russian planes? Bird strike excuses can only be used once before generals start wondering…
And if it’s US or NATO planes firing at Russian planes, aren’t we at war? And if we are at war, you think Putin is reluctant to go nuclear at 70 years of age and no way out of the mess he’s created?
Totally different to say that what Kinzinger is advocating, and the Ukrainians are desperately requesting (it's Ukrainian airspace, not Russia's), will be considered an 'act of war' by Putin. So, too, are the economic sanctions, as Putin's already said.
We can debate whether there's any chance of totally avoiding direct conflict with Russia as this unfolds, but absent our leaving NATO I don't see such happening...unless Putin is deposed. He ain't coming to Jesus.
We understand why you hate Kinzinger, you Trump insurrectionist, Putin bootlicker toadies (incl. Essex).
Salty's making a reasoned argument for slow walking direct intervention, while preparing for the reality that such is coming. We may disagree about timetable tactics, but fundamentally that's a rational argument with none of this partisan garbage in the way. That's appreciated.
I'm guessing if the folks in Texas want to hand over Austin to the government of Mexico as a peace offering, Mexico would tell us to keep it, thanks for the offer...Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:23 am “How many casualties were there in Russia's "invasion" of Crimea ?
Should the US void our illegal annexation of TX & return it to Mexico ?
...now California ? ...maybe.
US Manifest Destiny = Good ; Russian Manifest Destiny = Bad.”
How many casualties so far in The Ukraine…..It’s the USA fault. The Soviet Union should have persisted. Putin just fulfilling manifest destiny. I ain’t mad at it….
What about your GF Tulsi who last time I checked is an active duty Lt. Col. in the National Guard articulating Russian propaganda on US/Ukrainian bioweapons in theater along with Carlson at Faux News?old salt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:24 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
It's our fault if we stick our hand in his den & he bites us.
And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
...because they have such a small GDP. The '80's are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:37 am
That’s very linear thinking and would have to assume that all variables and externalities are completely equal the way it’s been presented. I don’t want to get into a discussion in Spain but the argument isn’t real rigorous which I’ve suggested previously.
I think this idea is a bad one, at least as long as we're not actually willing to declare war. I don't think Kinzinger is quite there, either, but is anticipating the need to do more, right up to the edge of such. Looking for places and ways to do so. Short of direct with Russia.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:40 amMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:08 amSorry guys, it's not a declaration of war. Simply isn't.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:58 amrunrussellrun wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:27 amMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:54 pm
None of that is demanding a declaration of war. What, than, IS it demanding? What actions ?
But hey, why not just exaggerate? It's called lying.
He’s just playing dumb. Of course it’s a declaration of war.
Kinzinger has been on a media tear for two weeks now, ramping up his simple-minded hysteria. He really is a daft cretin, zero intellect and nuance, so of course he’s the DNC’s favorite Republican these days. You could toss this schlub $20 and he’d say whatever you want him to. In this case however, he’s being paid with deep-pocketed Brookings shadow pimp cash, which of course no one in the public understands and the media won’t reveal because they’re in too (look at the paid speeches that ‘journos’ like Natasha Bertrand and Ken Dilanian give…Aspen Institute, Bilderberg Conference, Brookings natch…and you think they’re honest journalists?!?!?
What is a no fly zone other than a declaration of war? Does MD actually think enemy planes miraculously fall out of the sky in a ‘no fly zone’. Who exactly hits those Russian planes? Bird strike excuses can only be used once before generals start wondering…
And if it’s US or NATO planes firing at Russian planes, aren’t we at war? And if we are at war, you think Putin is reluctant to go nuclear at 70 years of age and no way out of the mess he’s created?
Totally different to say that what Kinzinger is advocating, and the Ukrainians are desperately requesting (it's Ukrainian airspace, not Russia's), will be considered an 'act of war' by Putin. So, too, are the economic sanctions, as Putin's already said.
We can debate whether there's any chance of totally avoiding direct conflict with Russia as this unfolds, but absent our leaving NATO I don't see such happening...unless Putin is deposed. He ain't coming to Jesus.
We understand why you hate Kinzinger, you Trump insurrectionist, Putin bootlicker toadies (incl. Essex).
Salty's making a reasoned argument for slow walking direct intervention, while preparing for the reality that such is coming. We may disagree about timetable tactics, but fundamentally that's a rational argument with none of this partisan garbage in the way. That's appreciated.
Wonder if MD still says Kinzinger isn’t set on declaring war?
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