Trump's Russian Collusion

[a fan]

afan - There are no facts, and you know that......that is the entire point!

I see. So now you don't want to give me firm dates for when your conspiracy started. You just want to change the subject, because you know full well your conspiracy theory is stupid.

Okay. Got it.


6ftstick: if you want to fill me in on your 38 day conspiracy theory, I'm all ears.

[youthathletics]

afan - There are no facts, and you know that......that is the entire point!

I see. So now you don't want to give me firm dates for when your conspiracy started. You just want to change the subject, because you know full well your conspiracy theory is stupid.

Okay. Got it.

How in the heck can anyone give you facts on when this entire issue began, they do not exist in print...not even if you want to nail Trump to the cross. Heck, Mueller couldn't even find them and you are asking for little ole me to find them. My theory stays the same, this was a political hit job by the DNC/HRC in 2016 or dreamed up even earlier.

I will ask you....you provide facts that I am wrong and Trump is guilty, go ahead and prove me and Mueller incorrect.

[old salt]

afan - There are no facts, and you know that......that is the entire point!

I see. So now you don't want to give me firm dates for when your conspiracy started. You just want to change the subject, because you know full well your conspiracy theory is stupid.

Okay. Got it.

6ftstick: if you want to fill me in on your 38 day conspiracy theory, I'm all ears.

It started whenever Stefan Halper became involved making inquiries in regard to Trump & his campaign members.
Halper was already was already on the payroll back in 2014 when he tried to honeytrap Flynn.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/05/23/halp ... ia-claims/

or it could have been as early as Mifsud's first mtg with Papadop (3/24/16) if Mifsud was acting at the behest of a western intel service.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/19/jose ... s-mueller/

Who fronted the $3k for Papadop's trip to the UK to meet with Halper ?
https://dailycaller.com/2018/03/25/geor ... on-emails/

Let's see if anything is forthcoming on this, based on Barr's review.

[a fan]

That's not what we're talking about. We're discussing this claim of yours:

That does not discount the lefts political attempt of a hit job during the 2016 election to make the rights candidate sound and appear like a traitor, in order to take votes away from that candidate.

So I ask again: when did this "hit job" start? We agree it ended on Nov 8, 2016.

FoxNation says the Steele Dossier started it. That's June of 2016.

6ft says that it started with the Page warrant in October of 2016.


And when I ask for facts, I want you to tell me what these various people and Departments did that was illegal.

[Chips O'Toole]

A question, prompted by Mueller's gentle reminder found in footnote 1991 of the report: Given that POTUS now knows that a loss in November 2020, a mere 18 months away, will almost certainly mean that he will face serious legal jeopardy -- just how many crimes is he going to commit to ensure he wins reelection? I doubt he will see much downside, and very few other options. He is probably on the horn with Vlad at this very moment, trying to get the interference machine up and rolling again. Frankly, it would be stupid for him not to. Talk about a threat to nat sec. That was smart to make sure no one ever did anything about the voting machine hacks, he's going to need that in his arsenal.

[cradleandshoot]

That's not what we're talking about. We're discussing this claim of yours:

That does not discount the lefts political attempt of a hit job during the 2016 election to make the rights candidate sound and appear like a traitor, in order to take votes away from that candidate.

So I ask again: when did this "hit job" start? We agree it ended on Nov 8, 2016.

FoxNation says the Steele Dossier started it. That's June of 2016.

6ft says that it started with the Page warrant in October of 2016.


And when I ask for facts, I want you to tell me what these various people and Departments did that was illegal.

We need Perry Mason around here to sort out the facts for us. All we have right now is a plethora of Hamilton Burgers speaking for the prosecution.

[dislaxxic]

So why didn't the great Obama do something about it?

Cause Turkey Waddle warned him not to politicize the issue.

Sanctions were levied...and what do you suppose happened to them/to the threat of sanctions?

You really should try to locate a clue...

..

[youthathletics]

That's not what we're talking about. We're discussing this claim of yours:

That does not discount the lefts political attempt of a hit job during the 2016 election to make the rights candidate sound and appear like a traitor, in order to take votes away from that candidate.

So I ask again: when did this "hit job" start? We agree it ended on Nov 8, 2016.

FoxNation says the Steele Dossier started it. That's June of 2016.

6ft says that it started with the Page warrant in October of 2016.


And when I ask for facts, I want you to tell me what these various people and Departments did that was illegal.

afan - I am not claiming that HRC, the DNC, BHO, etc did anything illegal to begin this Russian-Trump Treason Hoax pre election ~Spring/Summer 2016. I believe, that there were other prescriptions in place by Team HRC based on whichever R candidate was going to be the HRC competition. When they realized Trump gained traction and was her competition, it went into high gear based on the items I listed in a recent post.

[cradleandshoot]

So why didn't the great Obama do something about it?

Cause Turkey Waddle warned him not to politicize the issue.

Sanctions were levied...and what do you suppose happened to them/to the threat of sanctions?

You really should try to locate a clue...

..

Maybe you can give him a hand Dis. Two people in search of a clue might just stumble into something.

[dislaxxic]

It is time to move on. If we have learned anything these investigations cripple our ability to properly govern and drive additional wedges into our already divisive political atmosphere.

Not gonna happen. We learned everything we know about dirty political hectoring purely for partisan gain from the GOP. Lindsey, Mitch, Tucker, Rush, Sean, Laura, Gingrich, Rove...on and on...you think we'd relinquish the sledge hammer Trump has led the GOP into. The "ability to properly govern" was NEVER a trait this loser had, not ever. He has totally invited, that's right, ASKED FOR this atmosphere of opposition, denigration, divisiveness and rancor with his own behavior.

I's not surprising that Trumpists are started to seriously sweat the corner they've painted themselves into hoisting this clown on their petards. Said petards are stretched to the max and getting ready to snap their bareazz like a wet towel.

..

[seacoaster]

I seem to recall blind allegiance from all the libs when Barack was in charge.

Blind allegiance? Not sure what forum you were on, but there wasn't a ton on here outside of two or three posters. Most of us are critical of both sides (but some sides deserve more criticism).

The difference however

Barack said ISIS was the new norm we had to learn to live with it. Now they're gone no more beheadings or crucifixions. No more territory. no more caliphate. Guess Barry was wrong and you supported him.

NOPE. Obama never said ISIS was the new norm. He said small scale terror attacks are the new norm. Guess what kind of terror attacks have happened in the US since 9/11? That's right, small scale terror attacks

Barack said manufacturing jobs were GONE FOREVER. He asked "what's Trump going to do wave a magic wand to get those jobs back." Now theres 500,000 new manufacturing jobs. Guess Barry was wrong and you supported him.

NOPE.. Obama said "some of those jobs of the past are just not going to come back" when talking about things like automation. He also said some jobs are coming back, and talked about how many manufacturing jobs were created during his presidency after the recession, which was something like 800,000 manufacturing jobs.

Barry said 2% GDP was the best we could ever hope for. Now.......Again Barry was wrong and you supported him.

Shall I go on.

NOPE. They said the 21st century growth is going to be slower due to the retirement of boomers. Nothing about a 2% limit. GDP growth is still averaging around 2.5% for Trump.

But please go on, but in another thread. You're bringing a butter knife to a gun fight and it amuses me.

Holmes, can I send you a bottle of something? This was my favorite post this week. Perfect. Thanks.

[youthathletics]

I'll take some bourbon seacoaster, well, because its the fair thing to do.

Happy Easter to you and the family!

[old salt]

afan - There are no facts, and you know that......that is the entire point!

I see. So now you don't want to give me firm dates for when your conspiracy started. You just want to change the subject, because you know full well your conspiracy theory is stupid.

Okay. Got it.

6ftstick: if you want to fill me in on your 38 day conspiracy theory, I'm all ears.

It started whenever Stefan Halper became involved making inquiries in regard to Trump & his campaign members.
Halper was already was already on the payroll back in 2014 when he tried to honeytrap Flynn.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/05/23/halp ... ia-claims/

or it could have been as early as Mifsud's first mtg with Papadop (3/24/16) if Mifsud was acting at the behest of a western intel service.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/19/jose ... s-mueller/

Who fronted the $3k for Papadop's trip to the UK to meet with Halper ?
https://dailycaller.com/2018/03/25/geor ... on-emails/

Let's see if anything is forthcoming on this, based on Barr's review.

Halper first made contact with Carter Page on July 11, 2016.
This lays out the timeline :
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/05/2 ... rter-page/

[6ftstick]

I seem to recall blind allegiance from all the libs when Barack was in charge.

Blind allegiance? Not sure what forum you were on, but there wasn't a ton on here outside of two or three posters. Most of us are critical of both sides (but some sides deserve more criticism).

Thats laughable on its face. The vast majority of posters here are liberal progressives.I'd like to read some of your "criticism" of the left.

The difference however

Barack said ISIS was the new norm we had to learn to live with it. Now they're gone no more beheadings or crucifixions. No more territory. no more caliphate. Guess Barry was wrong and you supported him.

NOPE. Obama never said ISIS was the new norm. He said small scale terror attacks are the new norm. Guess what kind of terror attacks have happened in the US since 9/11? That's right, small scale terror attacks

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-is ... story.html

FBI director James B. Comey has warned that Islamic State, an organization that was added to the agency's list of foreign terrorist groups only last year, is now in virtually every state.

"This is sort of the new normal," Comey said in July

I think that any objective observer would recognize that in the absence of accommodation among the various factions inside of Iraq, various military actions by the United States, by any outside nation, are not going to solve those problems over the long term and not going to deliver the kind of stability that we need. Obama June 3 2014

Barack Obama says ISIS will be defeated by ideas, not guns. Barack Obama has dubbed the US-led campaign against the Islamic State a “generational struggle” as he underscored the need to not just defeat the terrorist group on the ground but also to “discredit their ideology”.Jul 6,2015

Barack said manufacturing jobs were GONE FOREVER. He asked "what's Trump going to do wave a magic wand to get those jobs back." Now theres 500,000 new manufacturing jobs. Guess Barry was wrong and you supported him.

NOPE.. Obama said "some of those jobs of the past are just not going to come back" when talking about things like automation. He also said some jobs are coming back, and talked about how many manufacturing jobs were created during his presidency after the recession, which was something like 800,000 manufacturing jobs.

[b]During a PBS town hall that aired Wednesday, Obama referenced Trump's promise to bring back jobs to the United States when talking about manufacturing.

“Well, how exactly are you going to do that? What exactly are you going to do? There’s no answer to it," Obama said.

What magic wand do you have? And usually the answer is, he doesn’t have an answer.” Whoops[/b]

Barry said 2% GDP was the best we could ever hope for. Now.......Again Barry was wrong and you supported him.

Shall I go on.

NOPE. They said the 21st century growth is going to be slower due to the retirement of boomers. Nothing about a 2% limit. GDP growth is still averaging around 2.5% for Trump.

[b]https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/trump-s ... htmlBarack Obama warns of unemployment being 'new normal' in US

"And as a consequence, we keep on seeing growth that is just too slow to bring back the eight million jobs that were lost.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... in-US.html
[/b]
But please go on, but in another thread. You're bringing a butter knife to a gun fight and it amuses me.

Holmes, can I send you a bottle of something? This was my favorite post this week. Perfect. Thanks.

[old salt]

Carter Page = Mr Clean .. Julia Ioffe was right.

[6ftstick]

I seem to recall blind allegiance from all the libs when Barack was in charge.

Blind allegiance? Not sure what forum you were on, but there wasn't a ton on here outside of two or three posters. Most of us are critical of both sides (but some sides deserve more criticism).

Thats laughable on its face. The vast majority of posters here are liberal progressives.I'd like to read some of your "criticism" of the left.

The difference however

Barack said ISIS was the new norm we had to learn to live with it. Now they're gone no more beheadings or crucifixions. No more territory. no more caliphate. Guess Barry was wrong and you supported him.

NOPE. Obama never said ISIS was the new norm. He said small scale terror attacks are the new norm. Guess what kind of terror attacks have happened in the US since 9/11? That's right, small scale terror attacks

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-is ... story.html

FBI director James B. Comey has warned that Islamic State, an organization that was added to the agency's list of foreign terrorist groups only last year, is now in virtually every state.

"This is sort of the new normal," Comey said in July

I think that any objective observer would recognize that in the absence of accommodation among the various factions inside of Iraq, various military actions by the United States, by any outside nation, are not going to solve those problems over the long term and not going to deliver the kind of stability that we need. Obama June 3 2014

Barack Obama says ISIS will be defeated by ideas, not guns. Barack Obama has dubbed the US-led campaign against the Islamic State a “generational struggle” as he underscored the need to not just defeat the terrorist group on the ground but also to “discredit their ideology”.Jul 6,2015

Barack said manufacturing jobs were GONE FOREVER. He asked "what's Trump going to do wave a magic wand to get those jobs back." Now theres 500,000 new manufacturing jobs. Guess Barry was wrong and you supported him.

NOPE.. Obama said "some of those jobs of the past are just not going to come back" when talking about things like automation. He also said some jobs are coming back, and talked about how many manufacturing jobs were created during his presidency after the recession, which was something like 800,000 manufacturing jobs.

[b]During a PBS town hall that aired Wednesday, Obama referenced Trump's promise to bring back jobs to the United States when talking about manufacturing.

“Well, how exactly are you going to do that? What exactly are you going to do? There’s no answer to it," Obama said.

What magic wand do you have? And usually the answer is, he doesn’t have an answer.” Whoops[/b]

Barry said 2% GDP was the best we could ever hope for. Now.......Again Barry was wrong and you supported him.

Shall I go on.

NOPE. They said the 21st century growth is going to be slower due to the retirement of boomers. Nothing about a 2% limit. GDP growth is still averaging around 2.5% for Trump.

[b]https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/trump-s ... htmlBarack Obama warns of unemployment being 'new normal' in US

"And as a consequence, we keep on seeing growth that is just too slow to bring back the eight million jobs that were lost.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... in-US.html
[/b]
But please go on, but in another thread. You're bringing a butter knife to a gun fight and it amuses me.

And as usual you obscure the point that Tump has succeeded at fixing these issues that Obama accepted as the "new normal" You'd rather dither about the vocabulary.

[6ftstick]

So why didn't the great Obama do something about it?

Cause Turkey Waddle warned him not to politicize the issue.

Sanctions were levied...and what do you suppose happened to them/to the threat of sanctions?

You really should try to locate a clue...

..

Not to politicize the issue!

What the h*ll has been happening for 22 months. Nice spin clueless.

[frmanfan]

A couple of random thoughts.

This report confirms what I have been saying all along, at least IMO. The Russians didn’t start their hacking to help Trump, they started it to hurt HRC. If you remember, Putin hated (and presumably still hates) HRC with every fiber in his body. If you forget the details, see this link ( https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/ ... tin-226153 ). It turned into an effort to help Trump once he became the candidate, but since they started, according to Mueller, in 2014, it predates Trump’s entry into the race. Even if HRC still won, as everyone expected and predicted, the Russians were going to make her life difficult if they could. So the question is, would the Russians have offered the same “help” to a Jeb candidacy? The others of course would have done what HRC did with Fusion GPS and gone through their attorneys to distance themselves, being the seasoned pols that they are compared to Trump. But they didn’t start in 2014 saying, “Hey, let’s get Trump elected because he is Putin’s b1tch”.

And the Obstruction thing doesn’t pass the logic test. (Here is where you all jump in and castigate me, so don't disappoint me!!) If there is no crime, what was he obstructing? My analogy would be that you accuse me of helping to rob a store. You report me to the police, who open a two-year investigation. I protest, vigorously, to anyone and everyone who will listen. But everyone hates me, because I live in Steeler country but cheer for the Ravens (not true, but this is for analogy purposes only.) So they all climb on board. The evidence? I was in the store that day, they have security tape of me talking to the robber, and they have no tape of me leaving before the robbery. It turns out I once said the robber was a great guy, just misunderstood. After all, he was my wife’s cousin, he came to our wedding, how bad could he be. So for two years I label the whole investigation a sham, but everyone in town doesn’t believe me. I shout it from the roof tops, I call the mayor an idiot, the police chief a dope, I tell the mayor to fire him (I am head of city council, so I have the right to do this), he refuses, but still they smear me. It gets so bad that there are protesters outside my factory every day, harassing my employees. They camp outside my house, scaring my children. Finally they say I had nothing to do with it, but now they are going to charge me for calling the police chief a dope and trying to intimidate him into stopping his investigation, an investigation into something that didn’t happen. So you might argue I legally interfered, but it doesn’t seem logical, again, just IMO.

[seacoaster]

"Russians didn’t start their hacking to help Trump, they started it to hurt HRC."

I think it is really hard to decouple these two things -- hurting Clinton was helping Trump. If you are talking about the Russians' intentions, then you may have a point, but it's one that I think sort of dissolves in the reality of what went on. There really doesn't seem to be much reasonable question that the Russians helped, and wanted to help Trump -- right, if only to do their dictator's diktat and hurt Clinton -- and that members of the Trump campaign team were ready to and did genuflect a bit. On the question of whether Trump's campaign cooperated with a foreign power, the answer is either, "Yes, they really wanted to," and "Jesus H., these guys were as stupid and judgment-free as a bag of ax handles."

"...I protest, vigorously, to anyone and everyone who will listen...."

I do disagree with you, and I really think most folks do. Protesting to anyone who will listen is simply not the same as firing people, directing subordinates to take acts, talking about and floating the idea of exercising a plenary power of exoneration. Your bank job is just different partly because the President has so much more express and implied power than you have, when you and MDLax and a fan and dislaxxic started planning the bank robbery in your mom's basement after about 20 bong hits.

I am not castigating you; to paraphrase Warren Rudman, Americans have a constitutional right to be wrong -- and I think you are. But I also think you are really thinking about the issue and not just receiving the bullet points from Spin-HQ; and I appreciate that, FWIW.

The Mueller Report shows me two things that you really can't argue about (yeah, sure...): that the press did a very good job reporting this business and providing the public with insights and news it needed to make decisions, including the decision we call "the Midterms." And that Mueller ran an investigation that actually should be the model of how it is done, if it has to be done. No leaks. Working very hard to, and adopting boundaries and policies that would, if at all possible, avoid a direct and immediate constitutional crisis. Placing the issue in the hands of the political branches to deal with in the short term and the voting public in the somewhat longer term. And doing it without the four-year (that's right, a Presidential term) disruption caused by Starr and his merry band of guys who "Like Beer, Senator," over an Arkansas land deal and a lie about a favor.

And maybe third: that, criminal or not, the President is a very bad leader, surrounded largely by hooligans in suits and his unbearably stupid eldest son.

[MDlaxfan76]

Had to chuckle at your 2nd para, frmanfan.

I think you missed a few analogy points so let me give you a few more to explain.

You were doing a big business deal with robber's boss, known mob guy.
While running for City Council, you lied over and over again about your business relationship to the robber, and the mob boss.

Not because you forgot you had any relationship, but because it would have been embarrassing for the voters to know.

The robber came to your son and told him he'd like to give him some of the stuff he stole, so that it could help you with your City Council election.

Your Campaign Chairman arranged to give the keys to the store to the robber.

You son-in-law attempts to arrange a private line with the mob boss.

Your chief advisor for handling mob bosses more generally has secret meeting with the mob bosses lieutenants, and then lies about it.

And then you ordered all your subordinates to lie about all of the above.

On your first para, you are mischaracterizing what the Mueller report says about the Russian effort in 2014 and 2015. It predated HRC and its intent, according to Mueller, was to sow discord and division within the electorate, and distrust in the democratic system. Not just in the US but throughout western democracies. It wasn't about HRC (nor about DJT).

But when it became clarified as to who the candidates were likely to be, the Russians chose to support Trump.

That's right, the folks who wanted to hurt our democracy chose to support Trump.