The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
I would 100% support that.
I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.
BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.
My reply here to all of you who use 1 dimensional thinking. Your concentrating on the weapon used and ignore the person behind the trigger. So you if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapons you just say " oh snap" I can't murder anyone today. You want Red Flag laws but to accomplish that your forcing a physician to violate HIPAA laws. Y'all know and understand what HIPAA laws are suppose to do. They are suppose to protect the confidentiality of the patient. The Maine shooter spent a couple of weeks in a mental health facility. If he was still a threat that is where Red/Yellow flag laws should come in to play. Why was he released? That could only happen if the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others. Maybe you can't fix someone with mental health issues in 2 weeks. As a nation our solution is to blame the weapon used and ignore our failure to address these mental health issues. The system is overwhelmed by the people in need. So I can tick off FFG I'll mention a local Rochester case of Daniel Prude. Look up the details of his death if you like. Strong Memorial Hospital released him from his mental health observation. Three hours later after taking a header down the basement stairs of his brother's house he in a crazed drug induced state in the middle of winter he ran buck naked onto the street where he became the problem of the RPD. Daniel Prude died several days later. So who is to blame??
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:46 am
My reply here to all of you who use 1 dimensional thinking. Your concentrating on the weapon used and ignore the person behind the trigger. So you if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapons you just say " oh snap" I can't murder anyone today. You want Red Flag laws but to accomplish that your forcing a physician to violate HIPAA laws. Y'all know and understand what HIPAA laws are suppose to do. They are suppose to protect the confidentiality of the patient. The Maine shooter spent a couple of weeks in a mental health facility. If he was still a threat that is where Red/Yellow flag laws should come in to play. Why was he released? That could only happen if the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others. Maybe you can't fix someone with mental health issues in 2 weeks. As a nation our solution is to blame the weapon used and ignore our failure to address these mental health issues. The system is overwhelmed by the people in need. So I can tick off FFG I'll mention a local Rochester case of Daniel Prude. Look up the details of his death if you like. Strong Memorial Hospital released him from his mental health observation. Three hours later after taking a header down the basement stairs of his brother's house he in a crazed drug induced state in the middle of winter he ran buck naked onto the street where he became the problem of the RPD. Daniel Prude died several days later. So who is to blame??
I think it is pretty clear that folks are concentrating on the guns and the human shooting a couple of dozen people with it.
No one here -- I think literally no poster -- has said anything like "if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapon, [no one gets murdered today]." A weapon that wreaks this kind of carnage in a few seconds is not appropriate for any purpose. Talking about an assault weapons ban and reduced magazine size are not unreasonable in view of the astounding number of mass shootings going on in this country -- and really, this country nearly alone.
HIPAA is statutory, so it can be amended to accommodate Red Flag laws and the need to sequester firearms in cases in which an appropriate Red Flag standard is implicated. Patient confidentiality does not have to override public safety and a safe night in a small city at the bowling lanes. There are in fact people who should not have guns, just like there are people who shouldn't be driving.
Your recent posts on nearly all topics seem to have one thing in common: you call everyone names -- dumbass, stupid, "1 dimensional" -- when for the most part all folks are doing is trying to have a conversation, make a little contribution to the dialogue, express their opinion. Maybe you should -- or could -- lighten up and have a discussion without calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot.
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:46 am
My reply here to all of you who use 1 dimensional thinking. Your concentrating on the weapon used and ignore the person behind the trigger. So you if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapons you just say " oh snap" I can't murder anyone today. You want Red Flag laws but to accomplish that your forcing a physician to violate HIPAA laws. Y'all know and understand what HIPAA laws are suppose to do. They are suppose to protect the confidentiality of the patient. The Maine shooter spent a couple of weeks in a mental health facility. If he was still a threat that is where Red/Yellow flag laws should come in to play. Why was he released? That could only happen if the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others. Maybe you can't fix someone with mental health issues in 2 weeks. As a nation our solution is to blame the weapon used and ignore our failure to address these mental health issues. The system is overwhelmed by the people in need. So I can tick off FFG I'll mention a local Rochester case of Daniel Prude. Look up the details of his death if you like. Strong Memorial Hospital released him from his mental health observation. Three hours later after taking a header down the basement stairs of his brother's house he in a crazed drug induced state in the middle of winter he ran buck naked onto the street where he became the problem of the RPD. Daniel Prude died several days later. So who is to blame??
I think it is pretty clear that folks are concentrating on the guns and the human shooting a couple of dozen people with it.
No one here -- I think literally no poster -- has said anything like "if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapon, [no one gets murdered today]." A weapon that wreaks this kind of carnage in a few seconds is not appropriate for any purpose. Talking about an assault weapons ban and reduced magazine size are not unreasonable in view of the astounding number of mass shootings going on in this country -- and really, this country nearly alone.
HIPAA is statutory, so it can be amended to accommodate Red Flag laws and the need to sequester firearms in cases in which an appropriate Red Flag standard is implicated. Patient confidentiality does not have to override public safety and a safe night in a small city at the bowling lanes. There are in fact people who should not have guns, just like there are people who shouldn't be driving.
Your recent posts on nearly all topics seem to have one thing in common: you call everyone names -- dumbass, stupid, "1 dimensional" -- when for the most part all folks are doing is trying to have a conversation, make a little contribution to the dialogue, express their opinion. Maybe you should -- or could -- lighten up and have a discussion without calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot.
You are correct, I have been out of line in some of my posts lately. I'm not going to apologize because for some posters I truly believe they are dumbasses. I don't call out people just because they disagree with me. I call them out when I think their logic is bass ackwards. I understand the conversation very well. There are folks on this forum whose dislike of AR 15 type weapons demand that they be banned. Their rationale is doing so will prevent mass shootings. My rationale is the person behind the weapon is the problem. I've said before I'm not a fan of AR 15 type weapons. I understand why they are so popular. If you enjoy plinking they are fun weapons to shoot.
What troubles me is that too many people who own these weapons don't understand their lethality. They are a poor choice for home defense. If you asked some of these folks what the maximum effective range of these weapons are they wouldn't have a clue what that means. Your correct, HIPAA laws can be amended but that requires a physician with the giblets to take a stand. There are not that many physicians willing to put their neck and their license on the line. You know as well as I that HIPPA laws are meant to protect the privacy of patients. That is a responsibility that physicians take very seriously. It becomes a balancing act for physicians.
There are no easy solutions. The most difficult solution would be for an attending physician to highly recommend a troubled patient be locked up in a mental health facility until such a time they are no longer deemed a threat to themselves or other people. Case in point the Maine shooter was well known to have some pretty serious mental problems. Why was he released after 2 weeks? Did the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others? Should they have insisted he be confined for a longer period of time for treatment? Who is to blame here counselor? Did the system drop the ball or was the problem the weapon used?? This individual was crying for help that he never received. FTR my frequent use of the term dumbass also frequently includes myself. I'm not that proficient when it comes to sugar coating things just to assuage peoples feelings. My 2 sons can attest to that. They spent a good portion of their teenage years being prototypical dumbasses and I never hesitated to let them know. Since management here doesn't appreciate such vernacular I'll interchange the term "silly" for "dumbass" with the understanding my basic intent has not changed one single bit.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
I would 100% support that.
I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.
BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.
Personally, I'm an effing surgeon with a shotgun.
Other than a weapon of war ban, I have never suggested a weapons ban.
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
I would 100% support that.
I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.
BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.
Personally, I'm an effing surgeon with a shotgun.
Other than a weapon of war ban, I have never suggested a weapons ban.
I believe that is the express opinion of another poster who frequents this forum. This poster as adamantly suggested these AR 15 type weapons be totally banned. Your reference to handguns has been addressed rather effectively in NYS. If you want to purchase ANY handgun you will go through a background check that can take as long as a year. Misdemeanor offenses on your record can chitcan your application. The Monroe County Sheriffs office does an extensive background check, you are fingerprinted your photo is taken and the end results are sent to a judge that will either grant you a permit or deny you. If you know of a more effective system for issuing pistol permits I'm all ears. The weapons of war argument can easily become very problematic. How do you define a weapon of war? The US Army I served in has a very wide variety of weapons that were effective in different scenarios. That venerable Winchester 12 gauge pump is equally as effective for hunting deer as it is for putting down suppressive fire.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
I would 100% support that.
I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.
BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.
Personally, I'm an effing surgeon with a shotgun.
Other than a weapon of war ban, I have never suggested a weapons ban.
I believe that is the express opinion of another poster who frequents this forum. This poster as adamantly suggested these AR 15 type weapons be totally banned. Your reference to handguns has been addressed rather effectively in NYS. If you want to purchase ANY handgun you will go through a background check that can take as long as a year. Misdemeanor offenses on your record can chitcan your application. The Monroe County Sheriffs office does an extensive background check, you are fingerprinted your photo is taken and the end results are sent to a judge that will either grant you a permit or deny you. If you know of a more effective system for issuing pistol permits I'm all ears. The weapons of war argument can easily become very problematic. How do you define a weapon of war? The US Army I served in has a very wide variety of weapons that were effective in different scenarios. That venerable Winchester 12 gauge pump is equally as effective for hunting deer as it is for putting down suppressive fire.
I have no problem with the previous assault weapons bans. I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.
“A fight between two groups turned deadly in Florida when a shooting in a Tampa street during Halloween festivities resulted in two deaths and 18 people hospitalized early Sunday morning, police said.
Officers responded to the shooting in Tampa just before 3am on the 1600 block of East 7th Avenue in the Ybor City area, the Tampa police chief, Lee Bercaw, said during a press conference at the scene.
The fight occurred in an area with several bars and clubs, and there were large numbers of late night revelers in the area at the time, Bercaw said. Police were not immediately sure if the people involved in the fight were inside any of the bars before the shooting.”
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:46 am
My reply here to all of you who use 1 dimensional thinking. Your concentrating on the weapon used and ignore the person behind the trigger. So you if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapons you just say " oh snap" I can't murder anyone today. You want Red Flag laws but to accomplish that your forcing a physician to violate HIPAA laws. Y'all know and understand what HIPAA laws are suppose to do. They are suppose to protect the confidentiality of the patient. The Maine shooter spent a couple of weeks in a mental health facility. If he was still a threat that is where Red/Yellow flag laws should come in to play. Why was he released? That could only happen if the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others. Maybe you can't fix someone with mental health issues in 2 weeks. As a nation our solution is to blame the weapon used and ignore our failure to address these mental health issues. The system is overwhelmed by the people in need. So I can tick off FFG I'll mention a local Rochester case of Daniel Prude. Look up the details of his death if you like. Strong Memorial Hospital released him from his mental health observation. Three hours later after taking a header down the basement stairs of his brother's house he in a crazed drug induced state in the middle of winter he ran buck naked onto the street where he became the problem of the RPD. Daniel Prude died several days later. So who is to blame??
I think it is pretty clear that folks are concentrating on the guns and the human shooting a couple of dozen people with it.
No one here -- I think literally no poster -- has said anything like "if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapon, [no one gets murdered today]." A weapon that wreaks this kind of carnage in a few seconds is not appropriate for any purpose. Talking about an assault weapons ban and reduced magazine size are not unreasonable in view of the astounding number of mass shootings going on in this country -- and really, this country nearly alone.
HIPAA is statutory, so it can be amended to accommodate Red Flag laws and the need to sequester firearms in cases in which an appropriate Red Flag standard is implicated. Patient confidentiality does not have to override public safety and a safe night in a small city at the bowling lanes. There are in fact people who should not have guns, just like there are people who shouldn't be driving.
Your recent posts on nearly all topics seem to have one thing in common: you call everyone names -- dumbass, stupid, "1 dimensional" -- when for the most part all folks are doing is trying to have a conversation, make a little contribution to the dialogue, express their opinion. Maybe you should -- or could -- lighten up and have a discussion without calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot.
You are correct, I have been out of line in some of my posts lately. I'm not going to apologize because for some posters I truly believe they are dumbasses. I don't call out people just because they disagree with me. I call them out when I think their logic is bass ackwards. I understand the conversation very well. There are folks on this forum whose dislike of AR 15 type weapons demand that they be banned. Their rationale is doing so will prevent mass shootings. My rationale is the person behind the weapon is the problem. I've said before I'm not a fan of AR 15 type weapons. I understand why they are so popular. If you enjoy plinking they are fun weapons to shoot.
What troubles me is that too many people who own these weapons don't understand their lethality. They are a poor choice for home defense. If you asked some of these folks what the maximum effective range of these weapons are they wouldn't have a clue what that means. Your correct, HIPAA laws can be amended but that requires a physician with the giblets to take a stand. There are not that many physicians willing to put their neck and their license on the line. You know as well as I that HIPPA laws are meant to protect the privacy of patients. That is a responsibility that physicians take very seriously. It becomes a balancing act for physicians.
There are no easy solutions. The most difficult solution would be for an attending physician to highly recommend a troubled patient be locked up in a mental health facility until such a time they are no longer deemed a threat to themselves or other people. Case in point the Maine shooter was well known to have some pretty serious mental problems. Why was he released after 2 weeks? Did the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others? Should they have insisted he be confined for a longer period of time for treatment? Who is to blame here counselor? Did the system drop the ball or was the problem the weapon used?? This individual was crying for help that he never received. FTR my frequent use of the term dumbass also frequently includes myself. I'm not that proficient when it comes to sugar coating things just to assuage peoples feelings. My 2 sons can attest to that. They spent a good portion of their teenage years being prototypical dumbasses and I never hesitated to let them know. Since management here doesn't appreciate such vernacular I'll interchange the term "silly" for "dumbass" with the understanding my basic intent has not changed one single bit.
C&S, thanks; couple of things:
You say "What troubles me is that too many people who own these weapons don't understand their lethality." Agreed, but they sure should be now, given the difficulty identifying the Fourth Graders in Uvalde and the folks in the Lewiston bowling alley.
You also say: "HIPAA laws can be amended but that requires a physician with the giblets to take a stand. There are not that many physicians willing to put their neck and their license on the line." Assume the Red Flag law provides immunity for the physician acting in good faith based on reasonable medical judgment; make it a physician checked by a peer, whatever. Dozens of laws turn on this sort of reasonableness. Easy.
The reality is we have to get to a place where reasonable and responsible gun owners -- and I am certain you are one -- are willing to compromise a small sliver of their collection of gun rights to save regular folks shopping, going to church, going to college, having a drink at a bar, and knocking down some bowling pins.
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
I would 100% support that.
I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.
BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.
Personally, I'm an effing surgeon with a shotgun.
Other than a weapon of war ban, I have never suggested a weapons ban.
I believe that is the express opinion of another poster who frequents this forum. This poster as adamantly suggested these AR 15 type weapons be totally banned. Your reference to handguns has been addressed rather effectively in NYS. If you want to purchase ANY handgun you will go through a background check that can take as long as a year. Misdemeanor offenses on your record can chitcan your application. The Monroe County Sheriffs office does an extensive background check, you are fingerprinted your photo is taken and the end results are sent to a judge that will either grant you a permit or deny you. If you know of a more effective system for issuing pistol permits I'm all ears. The weapons of war argument can easily become very problematic. How do you define a weapon of war? The US Army I served in has a very wide variety of weapons that were effective in different scenarios. That venerable Winchester 12 gauge pump is equally as effective for hunting deer as it is for putting down suppressive fire.
I have no problem with the previous assault weapons bans. I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.
When have I ever said I was pro mass shootings?? Banning a weapon that has been in mass production and readily available to the general public for many decades. If the powers that be want to ban them I could care less. IMO banning them outright would create a chitstorm that would be dumped in the laps of law enforcement. If a deranged person with murderous intentions is denied access to weapon A there is always option B. The implication I'm getting from some of you folks is denying one type of weapon will magically prevent prevent mass killings. I pointed out the carnage that can be done with a 6 round pump shotgun loaded with buckshot. At point blank range 1 round will literally blow a person in half. I'm just dealing in the reality that someone hell bent on killing a lot of people quickly will find the weapon for the job. Those weapons will always be out there.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
I think people get confused and overly focused on single aspects of the problem.
Reducing gun violence and suicides by gun requires multifaceted solutions, not just one decision.
For instance, banning assault weapons for home storage needn't mean it's impossible to have access to these weapons in highly regulated, safe gun ranges. Nor, obviously, in warfare.
But there's no need for them to shoot "feral pigs". Other 1-3-shot long guns are plenty sufficient.
Regulating ownership, transfer, storage and usage of other weapons is quite possible, with universal background checks and delays, red flag laws. licensure requirements on regular safety training, safe storage requirements, and even biometric triggers on all new guns.
Significant penalties for flagrant abuse of these rules, serious jail time for any use of a gun in the commission of a crime.
Financial support for gun surrender, safety training, and upgrade to biometric triggers, gun safes, etc.
Separately, a commitment to mental health and wellbeing should be a major priority in our society, just as chronic disease prevention should be elevated dramatically in our health system. They are interrelated issues.
And yeah, decriminalization of drug usage, with big increase in addiction support. That doesn't mean decriminalizing illegal drug traffic, but replacing those sources with medically supported access to inexpensive, regulated alternatives will dramatically reduce the profit potential for drug gangs and associated turf violence, reduce addict crime, reduce incarceration rates and costs, and focus police resources on other crime and safety protection.
Multifaceted.
But sure, banning assault weapons outside of regulated gun ranges is one of the many steps, and specifically addresses the biggest portion of the mass murder rampage problem. Do it.
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:46 am
My reply here to all of you who use 1 dimensional thinking. Your concentrating on the weapon used and ignore the person behind the trigger. So you if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapons you just say " oh snap" I can't murder anyone today. You want Red Flag laws but to accomplish that your forcing a physician to violate HIPAA laws. Y'all know and understand what HIPAA laws are suppose to do. They are suppose to protect the confidentiality of the patient. The Maine shooter spent a couple of weeks in a mental health facility. If he was still a threat that is where Red/Yellow flag laws should come in to play. Why was he released? That could only happen if the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others. Maybe you can't fix someone with mental health issues in 2 weeks. As a nation our solution is to blame the weapon used and ignore our failure to address these mental health issues. The system is overwhelmed by the people in need. So I can tick off FFG I'll mention a local Rochester case of Daniel Prude. Look up the details of his death if you like. Strong Memorial Hospital released him from his mental health observation. Three hours later after taking a header down the basement stairs of his brother's house he in a crazed drug induced state in the middle of winter he ran buck naked onto the street where he became the problem of the RPD. Daniel Prude died several days later. So who is to blame??
I think it is pretty clear that folks are concentrating on the guns and the human shooting a couple of dozen people with it.
No one here -- I think literally no poster -- has said anything like "if you can't purchase an AR 15 type weapon, [no one gets murdered today]." A weapon that wreaks this kind of carnage in a few seconds is not appropriate for any purpose. Talking about an assault weapons ban and reduced magazine size are not unreasonable in view of the astounding number of mass shootings going on in this country -- and really, this country nearly alone.
HIPAA is statutory, so it can be amended to accommodate Red Flag laws and the need to sequester firearms in cases in which an appropriate Red Flag standard is implicated. Patient confidentiality does not have to override public safety and a safe night in a small city at the bowling lanes. There are in fact people who should not have guns, just like there are people who shouldn't be driving.
Your recent posts on nearly all topics seem to have one thing in common: you call everyone names -- dumbass, stupid, "1 dimensional" -- when for the most part all folks are doing is trying to have a conversation, make a little contribution to the dialogue, express their opinion. Maybe you should -- or could -- lighten up and have a discussion without calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot.
You are correct, I have been out of line in some of my posts lately. I'm not going to apologize because for some posters I truly believe they are dumbasses. I don't call out people just because they disagree with me. I call them out when I think their logic is bass ackwards. I understand the conversation very well. There are folks on this forum whose dislike of AR 15 type weapons demand that they be banned. Their rationale is doing so will prevent mass shootings. My rationale is the person behind the weapon is the problem. I've said before I'm not a fan of AR 15 type weapons. I understand why they are so popular. If you enjoy plinking they are fun weapons to shoot.
What troubles me is that too many people who own these weapons don't understand their lethality. They are a poor choice for home defense. If you asked some of these folks what the maximum effective range of these weapons are they wouldn't have a clue what that means. Your correct, HIPAA laws can be amended but that requires a physician with the giblets to take a stand. There are not that many physicians willing to put their neck and their license on the line. You know as well as I that HIPPA laws are meant to protect the privacy of patients. That is a responsibility that physicians take very seriously. It becomes a balancing act for physicians.
There are no easy solutions. The most difficult solution would be for an attending physician to highly recommend a troubled patient be locked up in a mental health facility until such a time they are no longer deemed a threat to themselves or other people. Case in point the Maine shooter was well known to have some pretty serious mental problems. Why was he released after 2 weeks? Did the doctors treating him believed he was no longer a threat to himself or others? Should they have insisted he be confined for a longer period of time for treatment? Who is to blame here counselor? Did the system drop the ball or was the problem the weapon used?? This individual was crying for help that he never received. FTR my frequent use of the term dumbass also frequently includes myself. I'm not that proficient when it comes to sugar coating things just to assuage peoples feelings. My 2 sons can attest to that. They spent a good portion of their teenage years being prototypical dumbasses and I never hesitated to let them know. Since management here doesn't appreciate such vernacular I'll interchange the term "silly" for "dumbass" with the understanding my basic intent has not changed one single bit.
C&S, thanks; couple of things:
You say "What troubles me is that too many people who own these weapons don't understand their lethality." Agreed, but they sure should be now, given the difficulty identifying the Fourth Graders in Uvalde and the folks in the Lewiston bowling alley.
You also say: "HIPAA laws can be amended but that requires a physician with the giblets to take a stand. There are not that many physicians willing to put their neck and their license on the line." Assume the Red Flag law provides immunity for the physician acting in good faith based on reasonable medical judgment; make it a physician checked by a peer, whatever. Dozens of laws turn on this sort of reasonableness. Easy.
The reality is we have to get to a place where reasonable and responsible gun owners -- and I am certain you are one -- are willing to compromise a small sliver of their collection of gun rights to save regular folks shopping, going to church, going to college, having a drink at a bar, and knocking down some bowling pins.
I agree with you 100%. I don't want people with severe mental issues running around with an AR 15 or a BB gun for that matter. I do think the vast majority of people who own AR 15 weapons take that privilege very seriously. It is time for new purchases of these weapons include firearms safety courses you must pass to be allowed to make the purchase. Instructors should also be allowed to deny a purchase if they question the mental health of any potential buyer. A minimum age of 21 or even 25 is not unreasonable. I repeat I'm not an advocate of AR 15 weapons for home defense. IMO it is the wrong weapon for the job. In the end that is a choice the potential buyer has to consider. I think that a responsible gun shop owner listening to their customer would steer these people away from these rifles. When I decided to purchase a weapon for home defense I thought long and hard about it and purchased the weapon that best fit what I was looking for. I only hope I will never need it.
Last edited by cradleandshoot on Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
I would 100% support that.
I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.
BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.
Personally, I'm an effing surgeon with a shotgun.
Other than a weapon of war ban, I have never suggested a weapons ban.
I believe that is the express opinion of another poster who frequents this forum. This poster as adamantly suggested these AR 15 type weapons be totally banned. Your reference to handguns has been addressed rather effectively in NYS. If you want to purchase ANY handgun you will go through a background check that can take as long as a year. Misdemeanor offenses on your record can chitcan your application. The Monroe County Sheriffs office does an extensive background check, you are fingerprinted your photo is taken and the end results are sent to a judge that will either grant you a permit or deny you. If you know of a more effective system for issuing pistol permits I'm all ears. The weapons of war argument can easily become very problematic. How do you define a weapon of war? The US Army I served in has a very wide variety of weapons that were effective in different scenarios. That venerable Winchester 12 gauge pump is equally as effective for hunting deer as it is for putting down suppressive fire.
I have no problem with the previous assault weapons bans. I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.
When have I ever said I was pro mass shootings?? Banning a weapon that has been in mass production and readily available to the general public for many decades. If the powers that be want to ban them I could care less. IMO banning them outright would create a chitstorm that would be dumped in the laps of law enforcement. If a deranged person with murderous intentions is denied access to weapon A there is always option B. The implication I'm getting from some of you folks is denying one type of weapon will magically prevent prevent mass killings. I pointed out the carnage that can be done with a 6 round pump shotgun loaded with buckshot. At point blank range 1 round will literally blow a person in half. I'm just dealing in the reality that someone hell bent on killing a lot of people quickly will find the weapon for the job. Those weapons will always be out there.
cradle, you've said numerous times that it will be a problem for law enforcement if there's a ban on assault weapons. Yes, that's correct as some people will not want to turn them in, even with a financial incentive to do so...and yet many will.
And as I've said, I'd be fine with people being able to store and use their weapons at a well regulated gun range...but only there. Some people will opt for that.
And yet some people will still not want to do so...I'd note that law enforcement nearly uniformly, across all police orgs, unions, chiefs, etc, across the country, advocate for such a ban...they want this problem. They want to focus their resources on people who insist on the capacity to do great harm to others, fast. Including to themselves as officers.
Yes, it will not 100% eliminate the issue of murder, including potential large scale murder. But note, a shotgun with its plug removed and now with 6 shot capacity (why are they made with this 6 shot capacity if all hunting licenses require the plug???) still needs to be reloaded after those shots are expended, and that is not a fast process and I'm pretty facile with such reload. And the effectiveness is only at pretty close range, much less than these assault weapons, so escape is far more possible. Sure, in a trench or other very close quarters, brutal results, but in any wider setting, not so much.
None of this obviates the need to address other related gun access and crime.
Note, this all needs to be done at a national level, as state by state is insufficient. Too easy for criminals to get guns in nearby states.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:30 am
I think people get confused and overly focused on single aspects of the problem.
Reducing gun violence and suicides by gun requires multifaceted solutions, not just one decision.
For instance, banning assault weapons for home storage needn't mean it's impossible to have access to these weapons in highly regulated, safe gun ranges. Nor, obviously, in warfare.
But there's no need for them to shoot "feral pigs". Other 1-3-shot long guns are plenty sufficient.
Regulating ownership, transfer, storage and usage of other weapons is quite possible, with universal background checks and delays, red flag laws. licensure requirements on regular safety training, safe storage requirements, and even biometric triggers on all new guns.
Significant penalties for flagrant abuse of these rules, serious jail time for any use of a gun in the commission of a crime.
Financial support for gun surrender, safety training, and upgrade to biometric triggers, gun safes, etc.
Separately, a commitment to mental health and wellbeing should be a major priority in our society, just as chronic disease prevention should be elevated dramatically in our health system. They are interrelated issues.
And yeah, decriminalization of drug usage, with big increase in addiction support. That doesn't mean decriminalizing illegal drug traffic, but replacing those sources with medically supported access to inexpensive, regulated alternatives will dramatically reduce the profit potential for drug gangs and associated turf violence, reduce addict crime, reduce incarceration rates and costs, and focus police resources on other crime and safety protection.
Multifaceted.
But sure, banning assault weapons outside of regulated gun ranges is one of the many steps, and specifically addresses the biggest portion of the mass murder rampage problem. Do it.
I worry quite a bit when I find myself agreeing with you. Your idea of limiting use of these rifles to qualified rifle ranges with certified instructors is a great idea The problem is where are these weapons to be stored? These rifles owners will never agree to these weapons being secured off site. It would be a step in the right direction. The most important point is these rifles owners with inexperience be thoroughly educated on safety and how dangerous these weapons are. When I was a young Army trainee we spent a lot of time training on these rifles and learned how they worked inside and out before we ever spent a minute on a rifle range. One thing that stuck in my brain was this... The M16 rifle is lethal out to 300 meters. Most people can't comprehend that. The 5.56 round was designed for only one purpose...to kill people. It is very effective in doing so. We were trained 40 plus years ago to shoot using iron sights. Today you can purchase a laser sight for your rifle where all you need do is look for the red dot and pull the trigger. Technology has made these rifles even more lethal and easy to use. That is great for an infantry soldier, not so great for a homicidal maniac.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.
I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.
If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.
Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.
So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.
And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.
Well that escalated quickly.
I must have hit a nerve.
I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.
But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]
Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.
I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.
You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"
It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.
If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.
So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.
Yes, exactly.
Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.
And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.
You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??
I would 100% support that.
I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.
BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.
Personally, I'm an effing surgeon with a shotgun.
Other than a weapon of war ban, I have never suggested a weapons ban.
I believe that is the express opinion of another poster who frequents this forum. This poster as adamantly suggested these AR 15 type weapons be totally banned. Your reference to handguns has been addressed rather effectively in NYS. If you want to purchase ANY handgun you will go through a background check that can take as long as a year. Misdemeanor offenses on your record can chitcan your application. The Monroe County Sheriffs office does an extensive background check, you are fingerprinted your photo is taken and the end results are sent to a judge that will either grant you a permit or deny you. If you know of a more effective system for issuing pistol permits I'm all ears. The weapons of war argument can easily become very problematic. How do you define a weapon of war? The US Army I served in has a very wide variety of weapons that were effective in different scenarios. That venerable Winchester 12 gauge pump is equally as effective for hunting deer as it is for putting down suppressive fire.
I have no problem with the previous assault weapons bans. I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.
When have I ever said I was pro mass shootings?? Banning a weapon that has been in mass production and readily available to the general public for many decades. If the powers that be want to ban them I could care less. IMO banning them outright would create a chitstorm that would be dumped in the laps of law enforcement. If a deranged person with murderous intentions is denied access to weapon A there is always option B. The implication I'm getting from some of you folks is denying one type of weapon will magically prevent prevent mass killings. I pointed out the carnage that can be done with a 6 round pump shotgun loaded with buckshot. At point blank range 1 round will literally blow a person in half. I'm just dealing in the reality that someone hell bent on killing a lot of people quickly will find the weapon for the job. Those weapons will always be out there.
You are pro mass shooting. You should talk to the nurses that have to care for innocent victims of these weapon of war shootings.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:08 am
I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.
This is a really ugly thing to say. No doubt intentionally so but not a word of truth to it, it's highly doubtful that cradle is any more pro mass shooting (assuming you mean of people) than you are. We, collectively, on the other hand sure do seem to be pro mass shooting(s) though as we do virtually nothing (certainly nothing effective...2A, ya know, we love our guns and are willing to have the occasional massacre that comes along with that right) to put an end to it. Lip service and thoughts and prayers hasn't done a damn thing but this is what we continue with.
Was mentioned earlier that it's harder to get an AR15 in NY at a gun show than many other places. I watched my friend's son buy an AR15 at a gun show, got some news for ya, it aint hard at all. One short (didn't take five minutes) phone call, the money exchange, he then walked out with it. This kid has had several run ins with the law, nothing serious but he's paid his lawyer well to get him out of trouble several times. Was a big player in the pot world for many years (buying and selling 30+ pounds at a time, making serious money), somewhat of a shady world with shady characters and plenty of guns. Pretty much always managed to stay one step ahead of the law, still sells pot, much more legally so these days but plenty of black market activity still going on. I would not have sold him an AR15, but those who are doing the screening for us found no problem with his owning one. We need to be doing a whole lot better job with that (obviously).
kramerica is right, hand guns really are a bigger problem than "assault" weapons, the numbers don't lie.
2A, baby!!! Get your gun, be part of the militia, that's who we are.
God bless America!!!
The plot thickens a bit - lots of red flags about this suspect's mental stability and access to firearms in the weeks leading up to this shooting
NYS police failed to report after the shooter was admitted to the mental health facility in NY back in July. Have to question the laws in place if they are essentially unenforceable.
"Maine Sheriff Says He Sent Statewide Alert About Gunman Last Month
The sheriff said the gunman had made threats against the Army base where he was assigned, prompting an alert to all law enforcement agencies in the state weeks before the mass shooting.
A sheriff in Maine says he sent an alert to all law enforcement agencies in the state last month after learning that an Army reservist had made threats against his base, a notification that came weeks before the reservist fatally shot 18 people in America’s deadliest mass shooting this year.
Sheriff Joel Merry of Sagadahoc County said he sent the alert sometime in September in an effort to find the reservist, Robert R. Card II, 40, who was said to have made threats regarding the Army Reserve center in Saco, Maine. He said he sent a deputy to Mr. Card’s home but that the deputy did not find him there, prompting the sheriff to send out the notice.
The revelation is the strongest sign yet that law enforcement was aware that Mr. Card was a potential danger before he carried out a rampage at a bowling alley and bar in Lewiston on Wednesday night.
“The guys, from what I know, paid due diligence to this and did attempt to locate Mr. Card and they couldn’t,” Sheriff Merry said in an interview on Saturday night.
The Maine Department of Public Safety, which had led a two-day manhunt for Mr. Card before he was found dead in a trailer at a recycling plant on Friday night, did not respond to requests for comment. The Associated Press first reported on the sheriff’s alert.
Sheriff Merry declined to comment in detail about the reported threats, and it was unclear whether any other departments that received the sheriff’s alert had tried to locate Mr. Card. It was not immediately clear how often such alerts are issued; two law enforcement leaders in Maine said on Saturday that they receive many and did not recall receiving the alert about Mr. Card.
The Army’s public affairs office in the Pentagon did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Saturday night. Mr. Card enlisted in the Reserve in 2002 and was trained as a petroleum supply specialist, whose work involved shipping and storing fuel; he did not serve on any combat deployments.
Earlier on Saturday, the commissioner of the public safety department said that Mr. Card had been paranoid and may have been hearing voices. The commissioner, Michael J. Sauschuck, suggested that Mr. Card had most likely been to the bowling alley and bar before, and may have carried out the attack in part because he falsely believed that “people were talking about him.”
“There’s paranoia, there’s some conspiracy theorist piece,” Mr. Sauschuck said.
During a recent visit to a National Guard training facility outside Peekskill, N.Y., Mr. Card had a run-in with officials and was later evaluated at a mental health facility, according to a senior law enforcement official. Mr. Sauschuck said he had no information to suggest that Mr. Card had ever been forcibly committed for mental health treatment.
Mr. Card had legally purchased several guns, including some days before the attack, according to Jim Ferguson, the special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ field division in Boston.
In Maine, officers must seek a medical professional’s opinion in order to take weapons away from people who are suffering mental difficulties and are considered a danger to themselves or others. That’s more stringent than some states with so-called red flag laws that allow the police or the public to petition for the temporary removal of a person’s guns.
Following the shootings, Mr. Card fled toward the Androscoggin River, the police said, abandoning his car about a 15-minute drive from the bar that he had just attacked. A two-day manhunt followed, with the state issuing a shelter-in-place order affecting thousands of residents.
During that time, the police twice searched a recycling plant where Mr. Card had previously worked, near where he abandoned his car. But they did not realize that a dirt lot across the street that held dozens of trailers was part of the property. When they searched the trailers, they found him inside one, dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
In addition to the 18 people killed, 13 were wounded. Three remain in critical condition.]
In addition, Maine Gunman Disclosed He Had Mental Health Issues, Gun Shop Owner Says
The man sought to purchase a gun silencer in August but was denied after self-reporting mental health issues on a federal form, the gun store owner said."
"The Maine National Guard asked local police to check on the reservist who killed 18 people after a soldier became concerned he would “snap and commit a mass shooting,” according to information shared with CNN."
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:08 am
I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.
This is a really ugly thing to say. No doubt intentionally so but not a word of truth to it, it's highly doubtful that cradle is any more pro mass shooting (assuming you mean of people) than you are. We, collectively, on the other hand sure do seem to be pro mass shooting(s) though as we do virtually nothing (certainly nothing effective...2A, ya know, we love our guns and are willing to have the occasional massacre that comes along with that right) to put an end to it. Lip service and thoughts and prayers hasn't done a damn thing but this is what we continue with.
Was mentioned earlier that it's harder to get an AR15 in NY at a gun show than many other places. I watched my friend's son buy an AR15 at a gun show, got some news for ya, it aint hard at all. One short (didn't take five minutes) phone call, the money exchange, he then walked out with it. This kid has had several run ins with the law, nothing serious but he's paid his lawyer well to get him out of trouble several times. Was a big player in the pot world for many years (buying and selling 30+ pounds at a time, making serious money), somewhat of a shady world with shady characters and plenty of guns. Pretty much always managed to stay one step ahead of the law, still sells pot, much more legally so these days but plenty of black market activity still going on. I would not have sold him an AR15, but those who are doing the screening for us found no problem with his owning one. We need to be doing a whole lot better job with that (obviously).
kramerica is right, hand guns really are a bigger problem than "assault" weapons, the numbers don't lie.
2A, baby!!! Get your gun, be part of the militia, that's who we are.
God bless America!!!
It’s a facetious statement….with a specific context. Do you think an Assault Weapons Ban and other limitations on magazine sizes is a meaningless action? I have no problem with gun ownership. I own one myself. Do you believe that we don’t have a gun problem in this country?
