Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

Axios Explains: The myth of a U.S.-Mexico "open border"

Illegal border crossings currently lower than lots of Trump months.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... d-of-2023/

Guess it's all a matter of who writes the story that works the numbers to fit the desired narrative.

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

The hits just keep coming. May I suggest kicking off your weekend with an extra large box of wine and some Valium to take the edge off.

Biden. Harris. Mayorkas. The Three Musketeers.

https://www.newsweek.com/homeland-secur ... ns-1934049

https://www.thecentersquare.com/nationa ... e1373.html

https://homeland.house.gov/2024/08/02/c ... ve-issued/

We're doing this "out of an abundance of caution", said the leaders who facilitated the breaking laws out of an abundance of "we don't give a fluck".

Why are you a Democrat? What policies do you like about them?

Valid question and in the spirit of the pandemic of negativity that engulfs us, I guess it's more about what I dislike about the Democratic party, which for me has been a steadily rising trajectory punctuated by two things of extreme personal dislike: 2A/Anti-Gun "stuff" and the ever escalating Biden Administration border crisis (with acknowledgement there is plenty of blame to go around both R & D before Biden).

I'm fragmented, man!

Do any of the grizzled longtime D identifying folks here care to weigh in on how today's D party differs from the D party of their more youthful days? 30, 40, 50 years ago. What about the professors and educations their children received in the last 5-10-15 years - and what those kids brought home to the dinner table conversations after graduating university? Am I the only one struggling to recognize - a lot?

The article below is a good read that does touch upon some of that fragmented, isolated, bunkered and blame-y feeling surrounding political discourse (if you can call it that) here and now.

https://time.com/6332506/democrats-2024 ... elections/

Feeling mostly independent these days. Isolated. Impotent. Frustrated. Disillusioned. And in disbelief that a great country is sick and rotting from the inside due to mostly self-inflicted wounds. Yet here we are.

I'd love for a third party consisting of centrists on both sides, moderate independents, and some libertarian moderates (does such an animal exist?) stirred in for a bit of spicy flavor. I read an estimate somewhere by some political think tank that such a party would hold a majority voter stake.

In the meantime, what's left for me to do? Howl at the moon regarding my personal tentpole issues, and drink box wine faster than Marion Barry smoked crack! Ah, the good old days!

[a fan]

Do any of the grizzled longtime D identifying folks here care to weigh in on how today's D party differs from the D party of their more youthful days? 30, 40, 50 years ago. What about the professors and educations their children received in the last 5-10-15 years - and what those kids brought home to the dinner table conversations after graduating university? Am I the only one struggling to recognize - a lot?

What do you think America looked like to your parents?

Where was the bigger shift left....the 60's and early 70's?

Or the 2020's?

It's not even a close call. I promise you that you parents were far more freaked over the changes from the 40's to the 60's....than the 2000's to the 2020's.

By every single 1st world global metric...America is waaaay to the right of the rest of the 1st world. Happy to walk you through it, if you want me to break it down.

Feeling mostly independent these days. Isolated. Impotent. Frustrated. Disillusioned. And in disbelief that a great country is sick and rotting from the inside due to mostly self-inflicted wounds. Yet here we are.

For me, it's all about one thing: we stopped governing for the working class. Fix that? And we're set. THAT is the problem.

This includes giving everyone here illegally work visas....so they we can TAX them, relieving the burden on....you guessed it....the working class.

I'd love for a third party consisting of centrists on both sides, moderate independents, and some libertarian moderates (does such an animal exist?) stirred in for a bit of spicy flavor. I read an estimate somewhere by some political think tank that such a party would hold a majority voter stake.

All it will take is for the Republican party to stop playing the fake culture war, and start governing to help their base. That's it.

Name the last bill the R's passed that helps the working class in a material way? When you struggle to name at least ten bills? Now you know where the problem is.

[MDlaxfan76]

yup, waffle refused to answer why they are a Democrat or explain what Dem policies they like...

Here was the question: "Why are you a Democrat? What policies do you like about them?"

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

Do any of the grizzled longtime D identifying folks here care to weigh in on how today's D party differs from the D party of their more youthful days? 30, 40, 50 years ago. What about the professors and educations their children received in the last 5-10-15 years - and what those kids brought home to the dinner table conversations after graduating university? Am I the only one struggling to recognize - a lot?

What do you think America looked like to your parents?

Where was the bigger shift left....the 60's and early 70's?

Or the 2020's?

It's not even a close call. I promise you that you parents were far more freaked over the changes from the 40's to the 60's....than the 2000's to the 2020's.

By every single 1st world global metric...America is waaaay to the right of the rest of the 1st world. Happy to walk you through it, if you want me to break it down.

Feeling mostly independent these days. Isolated. Impotent. Frustrated. Disillusioned. And in disbelief that a great country is sick and rotting from the inside due to mostly self-inflicted wounds. Yet here we are.

For me, it's all about one thing: we stopped governing for the working class. Fix that? And we're set. THAT is the problem.

This includes giving everyone here illegally work visas....so they we can TAX them, relieving the burden on....you guessed it....the working class.

I'd love for a third party consisting of centrists on both sides, moderate independents, and some libertarian moderates (does such an animal exist?) stirred in for a bit of spicy flavor. I read an estimate somewhere by some political think tank that such a party would hold a majority voter stake.

All it will take is for the Republican party to stop playing the fake culture war, and start governing to help their base. That's it.

Name the last bill the R's passed that helps the working class in a material way? When you struggle to name at least ten bills? Now you know where the problem is.

Appreciate the reply. Food for thought with some nutritional value.

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

yup, waffle refused to answer why they are a Democrat or explain what Dem policies they like...

Here was the question: "Why are you a Democrat? What policies do you like about them?"

I did answer! Obtuse hints by omission in my partial non-answer elliptically obfuscatory answer are all there, clear as a bell. I've stated: lifelong registered D. I'm sorry not sorry if your need for literal black and white definitions which box persons and their opinions here into one size fits all frameworks don't allow for shades of outside the box gray to exist. Dust off that right cranial hemisphere, sir!

Here you go:

I like the Democrat position on body sovereignty (including access to abortion) for women. I approve of the aspiration of universal health care and health insurance - no reason we can't eliminate spending on pork somewhere - and apply that to a desperately needed societal good (although I shudder to think of reality versus theoretical - based on observing things like medicare fraud, medical "industrial complex" malfeasance, and NGO trough gorging in existing gigantic government programs, but call me skeptical). Same with education - for a smart country we sure are dismal at realizing footing the bill for educating our citizens well is a great investment in the future. I like the Democratic position seeking to overhaul (not defund) policing and our justice system's broken bits (while at the same time being discouraged at EXTREME activist DA's/judges and SOME of the clown decisions being made regarding plea deals, catch and release of violent recidivists, parole insanity, etc.). I also applaud proven initiatives to intercede in underserved communities which are criminal violence breeding grounds (while at the same time being as folks here know 99.99% against these programs so often being tied into demands for the law abiding among us to give up a particular right almost 100mm citizens practice responsibly).

Anyways, those are some Democratic "policy likes" I have (with my editorial caveats, in the spirit of shades of gray ).

If I recall you're a Republican? Any newcomer here would be kind of surprised to learn that if they viewed your posts, no? I'm trying to recall what you like about Republican party policies, aside from MAGA/Trump enmity? Apologies if I'm incorrect in your being an R.

[MDlaxfan76]

yup, waffle refused to answer why they are a Democrat or explain what Dem policies they like...

Here was the question: "Why are you a Democrat? What policies do you like about them?"

I did answer! Obtuse hints by omission in my partial non-answer elliptically obfuscatory answer are all there, clear as a bell. I've stated: lifelong registered D. I'm sorry not sorry if your need for literal black and white definitions which box persons and their opinions here into one size fits all frameworks don't allow for shades of outside the box gray to exist. Dust off that right cranial hemisphere, sir!

Here you go:

I like the Democrat position on body sovereignty (including access to abortion) for women. I approve of the aspiration of universal health care and health insurance - no reason we can't eliminate spending on pork somewhere - and apply that to a desperately needed societal good (although I shudder to think of reality versus theoretical - based on observing things like medicare fraud, medical "industrial complex" malfeasance, and NGO trough gorging in existing gigantic government programs, but call me skeptical). Same with education - for a smart country we sure are dismal at realizing footing the bill for educating our citizens well is a great investment in the future. I like the Democratic position seeking to overhaul (not defund) policing and our justice system's broken bits (while at the same time being discouraged at EXTREME activist DA's/judges and SOME of the clown decisions being made regarding plea deals, catch and release of violent recidivists, parole insanity, etc.). I also applaud proven initiatives to intercede in underserved communities which are criminal violence breeding grounds (while at the same time being as folks here know 99.99% against these programs so often being tied into demands for the law abiding among us to give up a particular right almost 100mm citizens practice responsibly).

Anyways, those are some Democratic "policy likes" I have (with my editorial caveats, in the spirit of shades of gray ).

If I recall you're a Republican? Any newcomer here would be kind of surprised to learn that if they viewed your posts, no? I'm trying to recall what you like about Republican party policies, aside from MAGA/Trump enmity? Apologies if I'm incorrect in your being an R.

no, you're correct that I have remained stubbornly registered as a Republican and have only once voted in almost 44 years for a Dem for President. Second time will be 2024. Twice voted third party, 1980 and 2016.

Call me a an old school moderate to socially progressive R, internationalist, pro national defense.

There's almost nothing about the current MAGA party that I like, from the segregationist/racist/misogynist, anti-immigrant garbage to the strong man cult worship. The Orban/Putin international right wing "Christian Nationalism" stuff makes me ill to be associated with the GOP at all.

And as the owner of 8 guns, I'm sick of the 2nd Amendment absolutism and gun worship that has infected the GOP as well. I'm very comfortable with sensible gun regulation and find it crazy that police can be outgunned by weapons of war wielded by criminals. I'm quite fine with making it much harder to obtain such weapons and regulating time and place of usage and appropriate storage. Same for all guns for that matter. Let's get smarter about making legal gun usage possible for the responsible, but dramatically reduce the prevalence of guns in our societ for those who are irresponsible in their usage and storage.

Interestingly, you and I agree on some of what you describe 'liking' on the Dem policy side, though without some of the snide hyperbole and yet with some of the same caveats and concerns, but we disagree on guns and immigration policy.

On the latter, I want much more documented immigration, easier and faster, and much greater resources for swift adjudication of the undocumented. Very much in line with the bill negotiated last fall that Trump effectively nixed. I want a demanding path to citizenship for documented immigrants, including prior undocumented and asylum seekers who are approved. Bring people out of the dark, paying taxes and with a stake in the future of the country in which they live. Green card for masters and PhD grads. Immigration is a major strategic strength of our country which will sustain us for another century of growth and position of positive influence in the world. Turning inward would hobble us. Reagan understood this.

All that said, when I get a Florida license this fall I likely will re-register as an Ind. It's been useful, though, in my discussions with Fox News watchers to be able to start with "I'm a lifelong Republican" before discussing current affairs. I at least have a chance at being heard.

As at least an instinctual fiscal conservative, I find it ridiculous to keep cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations under the disproven notion of 'trickle down economics'...I have no issue with those who thought it was worth a try, but if flat doesn't work and makes no sense. The fiscal debt has grown much more under Republican white Houses than Dem, so no more hypocritical BS of actually being the party of fiscal conservatism. It's become crony capitalism not productive, well-regulated capitalism.

[old salt]

Has Biden gone after businesses employing illegal workers ? You're tilting windmills. If that were feasible, on a large scale, Trump, Biden & Obama all would have done it.

You think the reason that they don't do it is "it's hard"???

Jeez, dude. Gulp Kool-Aid much? The reason they don't do is is that this would affect the Trump' of the world....the donor class. THAT is why our politicians do nothing...they serve the multinational corporations who feed on illegal workers.

You STILL think that it's some accident that we haven't fixed this issue in several decades now?

Discussing this is pointless.....you're buying the BS of our politicians. You think that our laws are unenforceable.

And all you want to do is whine about the stupid border. You know that Trump didn't seal it, right? And that again, visa overstays outnumber those border crossings?

I'm not talking about the perfect. I'm talking about taking the Billions we send to Homeland Security and use that money to....oh, I don't know, make our borders actually secure. Call me crazy, I guess.

ICE has limited resources & a huge backlog of deportation orders to execute & even more to track down, without the help & co-operation of sanctuary jurisdictions. Did you read any of the links I posted. DHS has lots of under-resourced agencies you might have noticed, like CBP & the Secret Service.

Oh we all read them. Remember the BiPartisan bill you told us was bad....but didn't actually read the freaking thing?

Guess what it allocated money for, OS?

You're trying to win an argument that you lost YEARS ago. You keep moving the goalposts around, telling us fixing immigration is impossible.

Yet at the same time, you're against bills that help clear up backlogs....and you're against going after the businesses that break labor laws.

....and all while yelling at me all the time that the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Just take a knee. You're going to have to agree with SOMETHING I write....because right now, you're arguing with yourself.

It does no good to reduce the backlog if you let more in than you deport.

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

yup, waffle refused to answer why they are a Democrat or explain what Dem policies they like...

Here was the question: "Why are you a Democrat? What policies do you like about them?"

I did answer! Obtuse hints by omission in my partial non-answer elliptically obfuscatory answer are all there, clear as a bell. I've stated: lifelong registered D. I'm sorry not sorry if your need for literal black and white definitions which box persons and their opinions here into one size fits all frameworks don't allow for shades of outside the box gray to exist. Dust off that right cranial hemisphere, sir!

Here you go:

I like the Democrat position on body sovereignty (including access to abortion) for women. I approve of the aspiration of universal health care and health insurance - no reason we can't eliminate spending on pork somewhere - and apply that to a desperately needed societal good (although I shudder to think of reality versus theoretical - based on observing things like medicare fraud, medical "industrial complex" malfeasance, and NGO trough gorging in existing gigantic government programs, but call me skeptical). Same with education - for a smart country we sure are dismal at realizing footing the bill for educating our citizens well is a great investment in the future. I like the Democratic position seeking to overhaul (not defund) policing and our justice system's broken bits (while at the same time being discouraged at EXTREME activist DA's/judges and SOME of the clown decisions being made regarding plea deals, catch and release of violent recidivists, parole insanity, etc.). I also applaud proven initiatives to intercede in underserved communities which are criminal violence breeding grounds (while at the same time being as folks here know 99.99% against these programs so often being tied into demands for the law abiding among us to give up a particular right almost 100mm citizens practice responsibly).

Anyways, those are some Democratic "policy likes" I have (with my editorial caveats, in the spirit of shades of gray ).

If I recall you're a Republican? Any newcomer here would be kind of surprised to learn that if they viewed your posts, no? I'm trying to recall what you like about Republican party policies, aside from MAGA/Trump enmity? Apologies if I'm incorrect in your being an R.

no, you're correct that I have remained stubbornly registered as a Republican and have only once voted in almost 44 years for a Dem for President. Second time will be 2024. Twice voted third party, 1980 and 2016.

Call me a an old school moderate to socially progressive R, internationalist, pro national defense.

There's almost nothing about the current MAGA party that I like, from the segregationist/racist/misogynist, anti-immigrant garbage to the strong man cult worship. The Orban/Putin international right wing "Christian Nationalism" stuff makes me ill to be associated with the GOP at all.

And as the owner of 8 guns, I'm sick of the 2nd Amendment absolutism and gun worship that has infected the GOP as well. I'm very comfortable with sensible gun regulation and find it crazy that police can be outgunned by weapons of war wielded by criminals. I'm quite fine with making it much harder to obtain such weapons and regulating time and place of usage and appropriate storage. Same for all guns for that matter. Let's get smarter about making legal gun usage possible for the responsible, but dramatically reduce the prevalence of guns in our societ for those who are irresponsible in their usage and storage.

Interestingly, you and I agree on some of what you describe 'liking' on the Dem policy side, though without some of the snide hyperbole and yet with some of the same caveats and concerns, but we disagree on guns and immigration policy.

On the latter, I want much more documented immigration, easier and faster, and much greater resources for swift adjudication of the undocumented. Very much in line with the bill negotiated last fall that Trump effectively nixed. I want a demanding path to citizenship for documented immigrants, including prior undocumented and asylum seekers who are approved. Bring people out of the dark, paying taxes and with a stake in the future of the country in which they live. Green card for masters and PhD grads. Immigration is a major strategic strength of our country which will sustain us for another century of growth and position of positive influence in the world. Turning inward would hobble us. Reagan understood this.

All that said, when I get a Florida license this fall I likely will re-register as an Ind. It's been useful, though, in my discussions with Fox News watchers to be able to start with "I'm a lifelong Republican" before discussing current affairs. I at least have a chance at being heard.

As at least an instinctual fiscal conservative, I find it ridiculous to keep cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations under the disproven notion of 'trickle down economics'...I have no issue with those who thought it was worth a try, but if flat doesn't work and makes no sense. The fiscal debt has grown much more under Republican white Houses than Dem, so no more hypocritical BS of actually being the party of fiscal conservatism. It's become crony capitalism not productive, well-regulated capitalism.

Appreciate the time you took to reply. No easy answers, and I won't push back on some vigorous granular disagreements I have with regard to a few other thread specific things you wrote here. I do, however, object strenuously to being accused of "snide hyperbole". It was clearly "snarky puffery", sir!

Good luck in Florida. My family has had a presence there since the 1930's, and have watched with amusement/horror as things have evolved/devolved. Best carnival sideshow in all of this great land!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Looks like Baltimore and Ferguson!!

[Typical Lax Dad]

[old salt]

Given the results of the latest election in Venezuela, it is now time to recruit a voluntary military force made up of Venezuelan migrants, specifically trained for the purpose of liberating their native country. Only make them part of the US military with a path to eventual dual US citizenship. Learn the lessons from the Bay of Pigs & do it right this time. One of the best pilots & career naval officers I served with was a Cuban refugee who flew a B-26 in the Bay of Pigs attack. Include Cuban & Nicaraguan refugees as well. Make them part of the USMC, trained in amphibious warfare & the aviation units which support it. Phase them in alongside currently serving Marines. Their existence would send a profound message to the corrupt authoritarian regimes currently occupying their home countries. They could be a potent fighting force at a time when we're having difficulty recruiting sufficient numbers of motivated & fit US citizens. Even if they choose to remain in the USA, they should be motivated to liberate their home countries or any other Latin American countries held by authoritarian regimes. They could become a valuable source for regional intel specialists & special operators as well. If we are going to welcome them into our labor force, let's welcome them into our military forces as well.

[Kismet]

Given the results of the latest election in Venezuela, it is now time to recruit a voluntary military force made up of Venezuelan migrants, specifically trained for the purpose of liberating their native country. Only make them part of the US military with a path to eventual dual US citizenship. Learn the lessons from the Bay of Pigs & do it right this time. One of the best pilots & career naval officers I served with was a Cuban refugee who flew a B-26 in the Bay of Pigs attack. Include Cuban & Nicaraguan refugees as well. Make them part of the USMC, trained in amphibious warfare & the aviation units which support it. Phase them in alongside currently serving Marines. Their existence would send a profound message to the corrupt authoritarian regimes currently occupying their home countries. They could be a potent fighting force at a time when we're having difficulty recruiting sufficient numbers of motivated & fit US citizens. Even if they choose to remain in the USA, they should be motivated to liberate their home countries or any other Latin American countries held by authoritarian regimes. They could become a valuable source for regional intel specialists & special operators as well. If we are going to welcome them into our labor force, let's welcome them into our military forces as well.

Sure. Let's try another Bay of Pigs invasion. How did the last one turn out? The Castro regime is still in charge of Cuba.
What happened to the non-interventionist Saltine?

[old salt]

Given the results of the latest election in Venezuela, it is now time to recruit a voluntary military force made up of Venezuelan migrants, specifically trained for the purpose of liberating their native country. Only make them part of the US military with a path to eventual dual US citizenship. Learn the lessons from the Bay of Pigs & do it right this time. One of the best pilots & career naval officers I served with was a Cuban refugee who flew a B-26 in the Bay of Pigs attack. Include Cuban & Nicaraguan refugees as well. Make them part of the USMC, trained in amphibious warfare & the aviation units which support it. Phase them in alongside currently serving Marines. Their existence would send a profound message to the corrupt authoritarian regimes currently occupying their home countries. They could be a potent fighting force at a time when we're having difficulty recruiting sufficient numbers of motivated & fit US citizens. Even if they choose to remain in the USA, they should be motivated to liberate their home countries or any other Latin American countries held by authoritarian regimes. They could become a valuable source for regional intel specialists & special operators as well. If we are going to welcome them into our labor force, let's welcome them into our military forces as well.

Sure. Let's try another Bay of Pigs invasion. How did the last one turn out? The Castro regime is still in charge of Cuba.
What happened to the non-interventionist Saltine?

Do it right this time. It will take years to assemble & train the force.
Don't need them to invade. Just their existence will make a difference.
Incorporate them into UNITAS. Let them cruise around the W Hemisphere exercising with allies.
If we"re going to give them priority entry into the US, let them earn their citizenship.
We need more motivated volunteers, willing & able to serve.

[Kismet]

Given the results of the latest election in Venezuela, it is now time to recruit a voluntary military force made up of Venezuelan migrants, specifically trained for the purpose of liberating their native country. Only make them part of the US military with a path to eventual dual US citizenship. Learn the lessons from the Bay of Pigs & do it right this time. One of the best pilots & career naval officers I served with was a Cuban refugee who flew a B-26 in the Bay of Pigs attack. Include Cuban & Nicaraguan refugees as well. Make them part of the USMC, trained in amphibious warfare & the aviation units which support it. Phase them in alongside currently serving Marines. Their existence would send a profound message to the corrupt authoritarian regimes currently occupying their home countries. They could be a potent fighting force at a time when we're having difficulty recruiting sufficient numbers of motivated & fit US citizens. Even if they choose to remain in the USA, they should be motivated to liberate their home countries or any other Latin American countries held by authoritarian regimes. They could become a valuable source for regional intel specialists & special operators as well. If we are going to welcome them into our labor force, let's welcome them into our military forces as well.

Sure. Let's try another Bay of Pigs invasion. How did the last one turn out? The Castro regime is still in charge of Cuba.
What happened to the non-interventionist Saltine?

Do it right this time. It will take years to assemble & train the force.
Don't need them to invade. Just their existence will make a difference.
Incorporate them into UNITAS. Let them cruise around the W Hemisphere exercising with allies.
If we"re going to give them priority entry into the US, let them earn their citizenship.
We need more motivated volunteers, willing & able to serve.

Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs to start the week. Try less sugar. You'll feel better.


Your hero Orange Fatso praised Maduro just yesterday

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/tr ... r-AA1ohwJk

[Typical Lax Dad]

More scenes from Ferguson and Baltimore. Was at war museum today in France. Anyone wonder why we didn’t round up all the Italians and Germans when they declared war on the United States of America like we did with the Japs?

[PizzaSnake]

More scenes from Ferguson and Baltimore. Was at war museum today in France. Anyone wonder why we didn’t round up all the Italians and Germans when they declared war on the United States of America like we did with the Japs?

Would have been a whole hell of a lot of people.

https://www.infoplease.com/us/race/ance ... ation-rank

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/25/us/meth- ... index.html

A woman pushing a stroller from El Salvador was caught!!

[youthathletics]

What could possibly go wrong at our border: https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/20 ... onsor.html

[CU88a]

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/spor ... n/3701788/

A smiling Rod Carew raised his right hand as he took the U.S. citizenship oath Friday during a ceremony in Santa Ana for the 78-year-old Major League Baseball Hall of Famer.

Carew, a beloved member of the Minnesota Twins and then-California Angels who used a broomstick and bottle caps in place of a bat and balls as a child in Panama, was welcomed as a new U.S. citizen at the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Santa Ana Field Office. About 20 family, friends and former teammates were in attendance.

Born in Gatun, Panama on a train in the Canal Zone, Carew moved to New York City as a teenager before a storied MLB career that began in 1964 with the Twins. He played the final years of his baseball career in Anaheim with the Angels.