Sensible Gun Safety

[Typical Lax Dad]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Why not? .....they are fine being more tolerant of people killing themselves with drugs, so much so, that they could care less, about all the fen-fen coming our way.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Pizza, You simply don't understand...

cradle, obviously the illegal gun manufacturers are the source of all these illegal weapons, right?
Shut them down, problem solved?

ohhh, no, the guns were made by legal gun manufacturers? We should ask them to make more legal weapons, not illegal ones, right?

hmmm, no, the guns they make are "legal" when made, they just get sold to illegal buyers...and that can happen at any time, from the warehouse, from the retailer, from the 'gun show', from individual to individual...maybe we should regulate and control the sale of every gun, not just the ones from a gun store? Nah, can't have that happen. Too reasonable.

And oh yeah, guns can be stolen...so...maybe there should be required gun storage and hey, even better, fingerprint locks? Nah, too reasonable...

So, what is "proactive policing"?

Does that mean the police should go door to door and demand proof that every gun they find in the home is legally registered? And registered to a person who should actually have a gun? Should anyone walking the street, driving a car, be stopped and searched and have to prove that the gun they have on them is legally owned and registered?

Seriously, what's the actual policy you recommend, cradle?

[cradleandshoot]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

[PizzaSnake]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

[cradleandshoot]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Pizza, You simply don't understand...

cradle, obviously the illegal gun manufacturers are the source of all these illegal weapons, right?
Shut them down, problem solved?

ohhh, no, the guns were made by legal gun manufacturers? We should ask them to make more legal weapons, not illegal ones, right?

hmmm, no, the guns they make are "legal" when made, they just get sold to illegal buyers...and that can happen at any time, from the warehouse, from the retailer, from the 'gun show', from individual to individual...maybe we should regulate and control the sale of every gun, not just the ones from a gun store? Nah, can't have that happen. Too reasonable.

And oh yeah, guns can be stolen...so...maybe there should be required gun storage and hey, even better, fingerprint locks? Nah, too reasonable...

So, what is "proactive policing"?

Does that mean the police should go door to door and demand proof that every gun they find in the home is legally registered? And registered to a person who should actually have a gun? Should anyone walking the street, driving a car, be stopped and searched and have to prove that the gun they have on them is legally owned and registered?

Seriously, what's the actual policy you recommend, cradle?

Your stunning ignorance as to how weapons find their way into the wrong hands does not surprise me. Why don't you go out and blast some ducks? You have nothing constructive to add to this conversation. Do you have a problem with strict penalties being imposed on people who possess illegal weapons?? The only gun owners that bother a FLP liberal Democrat like you are the ones that obey the law and pay their taxes.

FTR the police in NYC had a policy that worked. Stop and frisk was a phenomenal tool that made criminals think twice about carrying an illegal weapon on their person. Matter of fact the bad guys STOPPED carrying guns on their person. The rub was that violated their constitutional right to carry illegal weapons and terrorize their local communities. So the police are resigned to their fate. Proactive policing has been replaced by reactive policing. Instead of preventing a gun crime police simply react to gun crimes and make sure the blood is washed out of the street and all the brass has been policed up and documented.

[cradleandshoot]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

So you have no problem with bad guys in possession of illegal weapons?? What a country we live in. A bad guy can get out of jail at 10am and have a 357 magnum in their hands by 5 pm. A law abiding, tax paying resident of NYS will wait 6 months to a year waiting for their pistol permit to be approved. You see nothing wrong with this picture?
If only there was a waiting period for convicted felons before they were allowed possess illegal weapons.

[Farfromgeneva]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Why not? .....they are fine being more tolerant of people killing themselves with drugs, so much so, that they could care less, about all the fen-fen coming our way.

Just so you are aware Fen Fen is not the same thing as Fentanyl. They are entirely different drugs. You sure you get the correct information from your sources? This isn’t a spelling error this is an entire compound mistake which is more than a distinction without a difference.

[PizzaSnake]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

So you have no problem with bad guys in possession of illegal weapons?? What a country we live in. A bad guy can get out of jail at 10am and have a 357 magnum in their hands by 5 pm. A law abiding, tax paying resident of NYS will wait 6 months to a year waiting for their pistol permit to be approved. You see nothing wrong with this picture?
If only there was a waiting period for convicted felons before they were allowed possess illegal weapons.

That’s it? This is your response to an honest invitation to discuss a serious and complex topic?

[Farfromgeneva]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

He specifically states “urban America” (when the mass shootings are everywhere and the one who took a relative of mine was in Seattle but the dude was from Montana-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ted_States) and how we don’t want to talk about the underlying problem. Because it’s dark, like coming from the heart to darkness….

Apparently operation human shield didn’t work in the battle against Canada…. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AQnEBSwdAXw

[Farfromgeneva]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

The problem is he can’t differentiate between codified laws vs law of man. Thinks theres 100% overlap between legality and morality.

[Farfromgeneva]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

So you have no problem with bad guys in possession of illegal weapons?? What a country we live in. A bad guy can get out of jail at 10am and have a 357 magnum in their hands by 5 pm. A law abiding, tax paying resident of NYS will wait 6 months to a year waiting for their pistol permit to be approved. You see nothing wrong with this picture?
If only there was a waiting period for convicted felons before they were allowed possess illegal weapons.

That’s it? This is your response to an honest invitation to discuss a serious and complex topic?

Yep. It’s inane.

We need a f**king police state! Lock thei ish down! Take everyone’s rights away. The police should run ish however they want!

[youthathletics]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Why not? .....they are fine being more tolerant of people killing themselves with drugs, so much so, that they could care less, about all the fen-fen coming our way.

Just so you are aware Fen Fen is not the same thing as Fentanyl. They are entirely different drugs. You sure you get the correct information from your sources? This isn’t a spelling error this is an entire compound mistake which is more than a distinction without a difference.

Oh I know.....I thought we were slang. As opposed to the Fen-Phen.

[DMac]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

So you have no problem with bad guys in possession of illegal weapons?? What a country we live in. A bad guy can get out of jail at 10am and have a 357 magnum in their hands by 5 pm. A law abiding, tax paying resident of NYS will wait 6 months to a year waiting for their pistol permit to be approved. You see nothing wrong with this picture?
If only there was a waiting period for convicted felons before they were allowed possess illegal weapons.

That’s it? This is your response to an honest invitation to discuss a serious and complex topic?

I'm curious as to what your answers would be here, P' Snake. I'd be surprised if we don't have unanimous agreement in that there are far too many (actually understating) guns in this country. I've said before on this thread that I walk away shaking my head after talking to some/many people thinking to myself that that person could undoubtedly go out and legally purchase a gun. What to do??

[Farfromgeneva]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Why not? .....they are fine being more tolerant of people killing themselves with drugs, so much so, that they could care less, about all the fen-fen coming our way.

Just so you are aware Fen Fen is not the same thing as Fentanyl. They are entirely different drugs. You sure you get the correct information from your sources? This isn’t a spelling error this is an entire compound mistake which is more than a distinction without a difference.

Oh I know.....I thought we were slang. As opposed to the Fen-Phen.

I’ve met folks that use (abuse) Fentanyl straight up. Not as a cut for other drugs like cocaine. It’s very cheap, until I heard that first hand I thought it was just a bad coke cut (which, when you do the math I Don understand why they don’t just use Ritalin/adderall as the cut-acetone, fentanyl, etc aren’t materially cheaper per unit measurement and come with more potential externalities). Never heard anyone call it Fen Fen but maybe in Baltimore or with that Baltimore hybrid WV coal mining accent it’s different up there.

The weight loss drug is actually Fen Phen anyways. Something like Phentermin or close to that.

Id also add that having been around plenty of drugs and folks that use them no one talks about this being some issue from Mexico that just showed up. This is a made up abstraction and just not reality.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Pizza, You simply don't understand...

cradle, obviously the illegal gun manufacturers are the source of all these illegal weapons, right?
Shut them down, problem solved?

ohhh, no, the guns were made by legal gun manufacturers? We should ask them to make more legal weapons, not illegal ones, right?

hmmm, no, the guns they make are "legal" when made, they just get sold to illegal buyers...and that can happen at any time, from the warehouse, from the retailer, from the 'gun show', from individual to individual...maybe we should regulate and control the sale of every gun, not just the ones from a gun store? Nah, can't have that happen. Too reasonable.

And oh yeah, guns can be stolen...so...maybe there should be required gun storage and hey, even better, fingerprint locks? Nah, too reasonable...

So, what is "proactive policing"?

Does that mean the police should go door to door and demand proof that every gun they find in the home is legally registered? And registered to a person who should actually have a gun? Should anyone walking the street, driving a car, be stopped and searched and have to prove that the gun they have on them is legally owned and registered?

Seriously, what's the actual policy you recommend, cradle?

Your stunning ignorance as to how weapons find their way into the wrong hands does not surprise me. Why don't you go out and blast some ducks? You have nothing constructive to add to this conversation. Do you have a problem with strict penalties being imposed on people who possess illegal weapons?? The only gun owners that bother a FLP liberal Democrat like you are the ones that obey the law and pay their taxes.

FTR the police in NYC had a policy that worked. Stop and frisk was a phenomenal tool that made criminals think twice about carrying an illegal weapon on their person. Matter of fact the bad guys STOPPED carrying guns on their person. The rub was that violated their constitutional right to carry illegal weapons and terrorize their local communities. So the police are resigned to their fate. Proactive policing has been replaced by reactive policing. Instead of preventing a gun crime police simply react to gun crimes and make sure the blood is washed out of the street and all the brass has been policed up and documented.

Huh?
No one has a constitutional right to carry an illegal weapon...your argument is with the gun nuts, not me. They're the ones who scream about the rights to carry guns.

So, if I'm guilty of "stunning ignorance" of how bad guys get their hands on guns, illegally, enlighten us as to how that actually happens and how you'd therefore interrupt that pathway...speak slowly as if I'm a 6th grader...

[MDlaxfan76]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

I agree, there are too many weapons. The reason why is somewhat complicated. My brother has been collecting rifles for over 40 years. His collection is well in excess of 100.rifles. He is a collector and a gun aficionado. There are many people like my brother out there. I'm not a fan of AR-15 type weapons. I've probably put more 5.56 rounds down range than anybody else on this forum.I get why these weapons are so popular. If you enjoy shooting they are big fun. If you don't understand the concept of maximum effective range you should never pick this weapon up until you understand how lethal they are.

The problem is with AR weapons is they are LEGALLY owned by millions of people already who obey the law, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone so they can shoot their rifles safely and responsibly. I get that and I respect their wishes.

Too many weapons is not the problem. Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem. Nobody wants to have that conversation. Why is that?? That conversation takes you smack dab in the middle of problem that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

"Too many weapons in the hands of criminals and irresponsible people is a huge problem."

Okay, let's discuss.

When you say criminals, what sort of crime are you considering? I'd wager you, knowingly or not, commit several crimes a week, if not daily. Irresponsibility, what is your yardstick for that? Most of us are that as well.

So, what "bright lines" would you use to describe this population of people? Once defined, what solution for actions that place an individual in that group?

Should there be a "responsibility assessment" prior to gun acquisition? Should any pattern of criminality obviate one's 2A "rights"? I probably differ with you on the meaning of this amendment, but will stipulate to it being a "right" for purposes of this discussion.

If you did agree some level of assessment were in order, how would propose this be used in the face of the emboldened libertarian segment?

If no assessment is feasible or desirable, then how would any policy or legislation ever be anything other than reactive? Given the numbers of these crimes committed by young (under 25) males, a group not known for rational decision making ('cause their frontal lobes decision making faculties aren't fully formed), and a reactive stance, how would this penchant for violent, anti-social behavior be addressed by larger society?

Let's say we immediately incarcerate offenders for lengthy periods up an to life sentences, adding to our industrial correctional industry. How would we, as society, pay for this incarceration? Is it intended as a purely punitive, rescission from society with little to no possibility of rehabilitation and rejoining society? What to do to make up the loss of what would probably be a large segment of each birth cohort and workforce? Oh, and incarceration is very expensive. Downstream costs for inmate health care are staggering. Maybe we remove the right of healthcare from prisoners? Expand penal slavery, er, servitude? From a "professional" cadre of prison "trustees" to police the other inmates? Maybe let them sell a body part to repay their debt to society? Indenture themselves (might require a modification of the UCC, although that already seems to have happened in plea bargaining contracts)?

Yes, this is a fraught topic. But do respond. I'm curious what level of consideration you have given and will give this subject and await your answers to my questions as well as any thoughts you may have that I missed.

So you have no problem with bad guys in possession of illegal weapons?? What a country we live in. A bad guy can get out of jail at 10am and have a 357 magnum in their hands by 5 pm. A law abiding, tax paying resident of NYS will wait 6 months to a year waiting for their pistol permit to be approved. You see nothing wrong with this picture?
If only there was a waiting period for convicted felons before they were allowed possess illegal weapons.

That’s it? This is your response to an honest invitation to discuss a serious and complex topic?

I'm curious as to what your answers would be here, P' Snake. I'd be surprised if we don't have unanimous agreement in that there are far too many (actually understating) guns in this country. I've said before on this thread that I walk away shaking my head after talking to some/many people thinking to myself that that person could undoubtedly go out and legally purchase a gun. What to do??

Apparently we don't actually have that unanimous agreement...yes, surprising that we don't.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Grandson should have been carrying….

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/04/us/weddi ... index.html

[cradleandshoot]

The Office of Gun Violence Prevention!! The new czar is the same incompetent moron who was suppose to fix the problem at the southern border. You wanna help prevent gun violence concentrate on ILLEGAL WEAPONS. The best dumbass option was Gov. Kathy Hochuls option. You create background checks for purchasing bullets. Soooooooooo if your gonna pay 2.50 far a background check for 10 bullets ya might as well buy 1000 bullets. You pay the same 2.50 for 10 bullets as you would for a 1000 bullets. That is how you prevent gun violence. You make it advantageous to buy more bullets for your money.

Check again - most, if not all of these mass shooters have used LEGAL weapons.

Check again, the nightly carnage in Urban America are perpetrated by folks in possession of ILLEGAL WEAPONS. I guess they don't count on your score card? What is our new gun czar going to do about ILLEGAL WEAPONS? That would involve proactive policing. The policy in urban America today is reactive policing. That is where the police show up, pick up the shell casings, ask around if anybody saw the shooting and then call in the fire department to wash the blood off of the street. I don't consider that much of a winning strategy.
I guess we can only hope our new gun czar performs better in her new role than she did fixing the southern border? When it comes to any task involving our esteemed vice president the Peter Principle takes over in ernest.

Let’s split the difference and say, there are too fcuking many weapons in circulation. Period.

So, how to solve that little problem? It sure as h!ll isn’t correctable by selling more…

Pizza, You simply don't understand...

cradle, obviously the illegal gun manufacturers are the source of all these illegal weapons, right?
Shut them down, problem solved?

ohhh, no, the guns were made by legal gun manufacturers? We should ask them to make more legal weapons, not illegal ones, right?

hmmm, no, the guns they make are "legal" when made, they just get sold to illegal buyers...and that can happen at any time, from the warehouse, from the retailer, from the 'gun show', from individual to individual...maybe we should regulate and control the sale of every gun, not just the ones from a gun store? Nah, can't have that happen. Too reasonable.

And oh yeah, guns can be stolen...so...maybe there should be required gun storage and hey, even better, fingerprint locks? Nah, too reasonable...

So, what is "proactive policing"?

Does that mean the police should go door to door and demand proof that every gun they find in the home is legally registered? And registered to a person who should actually have a gun? Should anyone walking the street, driving a car, be stopped and searched and have to prove that the gun they have on them is legally owned and registered?

Seriously, what's the actual policy you recommend, cradle?

Your stunning ignorance as to how weapons find their way into the wrong hands does not surprise me. Why don't you go out and blast some ducks? You have nothing constructive to add to this conversation. Do you have a problem with strict penalties being imposed on people who possess illegal weapons?? The only gun owners that bother a FLP liberal Democrat like you are the ones that obey the law and pay their taxes.

FTR the police in NYC had a policy that worked. Stop and frisk was a phenomenal tool that made criminals think twice about carrying an illegal weapon on their person. Matter of fact the bad guys STOPPED carrying guns on their person. The rub was that violated their constitutional right to carry illegal weapons and terrorize their local communities. So the police are resigned to their fate. Proactive policing has been replaced by reactive policing. Instead of preventing a gun crime police simply react to gun crimes and make sure the blood is washed out of the street and all the brass has been policed up and documented.

Huh?
No one has a constitutional right to carry an illegal weapon...your argument is with the gun nuts, not me. They're the ones who scream about the rights to carry guns.

So, if I'm guilty of "stunning ignorance" of how bad guys get their hands on guns, illegally, enlighten us as to how that actually happens and how you'd therefore interrupt that pathway...speak slowly as if I'm a 6th grader...

You need to reread what you just wrote. I understand your not the brightest liberal Democrat around but even you can't possibly be this stupid. I can't speak slow enough where you could ever understand. Time for a bike ride for you old sod.... I'll give you a hint dumbass. If you can get out of jail at 11 am and be in possession of an illegal weapon by 3pm even a liberal dumbass like yourself should comprehend there is a problem. Usually age brings wisdom. In your case it just makes you a bigger dumbass than you were the day before.

[Kismet]

Just yesterday - a armed citizen was arrested inside the WI state Capitol claiming to be looking for the governor whose office is in the building.
He was arrested, his loaded firearm (a handgun) was confiscated. He bailed out and then returned to the same location hours later still looking for the governor then armed with a loaded semi-automatic long gun. He was again arrested and remains in custody without bail.

"A new study by researchers at Boston Children’s hospital found children’s gun-related deaths have surged over the past decade, increasing by 87%.

Researchers analyzed data on fatal and non-fatal shooting injuries from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) injury reporting system, finding deadly wound rates increased from nearly 14 deaths per 100,000 children in 2011 to more than 17 deaths per 100,000 in 2021.

Additionally, the data shows firearm fatalities were the leading cause of accidental death in children."

Such a great country we have here.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Just yesterday - a armed citizen was arrested inside the WI state Capitol claiming to be looking for the governor whose office is in the building.
He was arrested, his loaded firearm (a handgun) was confiscated. He bailed out and then returned to the same location hours later still looking for the governor then armed with a loaded semi-automatic long gun. He was again arrested and remains in custody without bail.

"A new study by researchers at Boston Children’s hospital found children’s gun-related deaths have surged over the past decade, increasing by 87%.

Researchers analyzed data on fatal and non-fatal shooting injuries from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) injury reporting system, finding deadly wound rates increased from nearly 14 deaths per 100,000 children in 2011 to more than 17 deaths per 100,000 in 2021.

Additionally, the data shows firearm fatalities were the leading cause of accidental death in children."

Such a great country we have here.

But was it illegal?