from NYTimes comments section on article about Napa Valley wine country and its existential challenges:
"The answer is no. You cannot have our Midwestern water. The climate is too unstable, and none of us knows what the future might bring. You waste the water you do have, mostly by insisting on unsustainable farming practices and uncontrolled growth in a desert. As water is becoming more valuable, it would be like Midwestern states asking Texas for their oil and gas, and Western states for their gold and silver gratis, simply because we don’t have any. And, if you haven’t noticed, we are no longer one country. Just ask any Trump supporting Republican."
So much for unity...and things haven't even gotten too bad yet.
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:34 pm
"Farms need outsized amounts of water to grow crops. During wet years, so much water could be channeled to central Arizona that it was possible, if inadvisable, to grow cotton, corn, barley and alfalfa in the desert. That may no longer be the case. But farms aren’t the only businesses that need water. Cutting-edge factories, including semiconductor plants, require millions of gallons daily. Two heavyweights in the chip industry, Intel Corp. and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., plan to build major plants in Arizona, and those operations will be water-dependent, too."
Also, build smarter. Go underground or higher elevation, where the natural environment is a large source for heat transfer medium. Ever seen a Nuc Plant away from a large body of water. Additionally server technology is allowing for hotter and hotter server rack isles. The days of maintaining high 60's low 70's in a server room have risen 20+ degrees...especially since you do not need bodies in there 24/7.
Yep. Those plants don’t need that much water.
They use that much to produce "pure" water to rinse the product. It is not a temperature abatement equation. They are manufacturing silicon chips, not running server farms.
I'm curious if anyone reads the articles posted:
"But a chip fab, depending on its size, can use 2 million to 9 million gallons of water a day to produce a smaller amount of the ultra-pure water it needs to clean components. TSMC has said it recycles 87% of the water it uses. Intel says its goal is a recycling program that generates “net positive water use” in Arizona. It has funded 15 water restoration projects for the state that it says will potentially restore 937 million gallons annually."
Potentially? I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for a cheeseburger today...
Nature says:
Maybe they can go back to using cfc113 or the replacement azeotrope.....now that the ozone layer has been restored.
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:34 pm
"Farms need outsized amounts of water to grow crops. During wet years, so much water could be channeled to central Arizona that it was possible, if inadvisable, to grow cotton, corn, barley and alfalfa in the desert. That may no longer be the case. But farms aren’t the only businesses that need water. Cutting-edge factories, including semiconductor plants, require millions of gallons daily. Two heavyweights in the chip industry, Intel Corp. and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., plan to build major plants in Arizona, and those operations will be water-dependent, too."
Also, build smarter. Go underground or higher elevation, where the natural environment is a large source for heat transfer medium. Ever seen a Nuc Plant away from a large body of water. Additionally server technology is allowing for hotter and hotter server rack isles. The days of maintaining high 60's low 70's in a server room have risen 20+ degrees...especially since you do not need bodies in there 24/7.
Yep. Those plants don’t need that much water.
They use that much to produce "pure" water to rinse the product. It is not a temperature abatement equation. They are manufacturing silicon chips, not running server farms.
I'm curious if anyone reads the articles posted:
"But a chip fab, depending on its size, can use 2 million to 9 million gallons of water a day to produce a smaller amount of the ultra-pure water it needs to clean components. TSMC has said it recycles 87% of the water it uses. Intel says its goal is a recycling program that generates “net positive water use” in Arizona. It has funded 15 water restoration projects for the state that it says will potentially restore 937 million gallons annually."
Potentially? I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for a cheeseburger today...
Nature says:
Maybe they can go back to using cfc113 or the replacement azeotrope.....now that the ozone layer has been restored.
stupid scientists! Don’t Fauci The USA!
Re: All Things Environment
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:44 pm
by Brooklyn
D@mn - can't open up the windows to get cool air into my apartment because the air is so full of smoke. Makes me cough like I had been smoking a pack of cigarettes. ARGH!
Re: All Things Environment
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:17 pm
by youthathletics
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:44 pm
D@mn - can't open up the windows to get cool air into my apartment because the air is so full of smoke. Makes me cough like I had been smoking a pack of cigarettes. ARGH!
damned shame you can still see you computer screen and keyboard.
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:44 pm
D@mn - can't open up the windows to get cool air into my apartment because the air is so full of smoke. Makes me cough like I had been smoking a pack of cigarettes. ARGH!
damned ̶s̶h̶a̶m̶e̶ you can still see you computer screen and keyboard.
The infection and abscess in my foot was not caused by that wood splinter. It was clearly caused by climate change.
Re: All Things Environment
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:09 pm
by PizzaSnake
Something for those of us who reasonably might expect to be on Earth in 2040.
"Human society is on track for a collapse in the next two decades if there isn't a serious shift in global priorities, according to a new reassessment of a 1970s report, Vice reported.
In that report — published in the bestselling book "The Limits to Growth" (1972) — a team of MIT scientists argued that industrial civilization was bound to collapse if corporations and governments continued to pursue continuous economic growth, no matter the costs. The researchers forecasted 12 possible scenarios for the future, most of which predicted a point where natural resources would become so scarce that further economic growth would become impossible, and personal welfare would plummet.
In that report — published in the bestselling book "The Limits to Growth" (1972) — a team of MIT scientists argued that industrial civilization was bound to collapse if corporations and governments continued to pursue continuous economic growth, no matter the costs. The researchers forecasted 12 possible scenarios for the future, most of which predicted a point where natural resources would become so scarce that further economic growth would become impossible, and personal welfare would plummet.
The report's most infamous scenario — the Business as Usual (BAU) scenario — predicted that the world's economic growth would peak around the 2040s, then take a sharp downturn, along with the global population, food availability and natural resources. This imminent "collapse" wouldn't be the end of the human race, but rather a societal turning point that would see standards of living drop around the world for decades, the team wrote.
So, what's the outlook for society now, nearly half a century after the MIT researchers shared their prognostications? Gaya Herrington, a sustainability and dynamic system analysis researcher at the consulting firm KPMG, decided to find out. In the November 2020 issue of the Yale Journal of Industrial Ecology, Herrington expanded on research she began as a graduate student at Harvard University earlier that year, analyzing the "Limits to Growth" predictions alongside the most current real-world data.
Herrington found that the current state of the world — measured through 10 different variables, including population, fertility rates, pollution levels, food production and industrial output — aligned extremely closely with two of the scenarios proposed in 1972, namely the BAU scenario and one called Comprehensive Technology (CT), in which technological advancements help reduce pollution and increase food supplies, even as natural resources run out.
While the CT scenario results in less of a shock to the global population and personal welfare, the lack of natural resources still leads to a point where economic growth sharply declines — in other words, a sudden collapse of industrial society.
"[The BAU] and CT scenarios show a halt in growth within a decade or so from now," Herrington wrote in her study. "Both scenarios thus indicate that continuing business as usual, that is, pursuing continuous growth, is not possible."
Been saying for a long time.....we need a global reset button, a reset that cuts damned near everything by 50% or more. I suppose the tinfoil argument is cv-19 is helping to thin the herd, maybe cv-20 will will thin it even more.
Re: All Things Environment
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:35 pm
by PizzaSnake
youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:26 pm
Been saying for a long time.....we need a global reset button, a reset that cuts damned near everything by 50% or more. I suppose the tinfoil argument is cv-19 is helping to thin the herd, maybe cv-20 will will thin it even more.
Problem with an across the board reduction is the normal distribution of intelligence and the "shape" of the "shoulders". Takes a lot of people to have even a few really smart ones. Of course, maybe the "selection" will winnow out the left-hand side of the distribution? Even so, same distribution next generation, only smaller cohorts this time. And disruptive events like that often result in the worst incidents of demagoguery and fascism.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:26 pm
Been saying for a long time.....we need a global reset button, a reset that cuts damned near everything by 50% or more. I suppose the tinfoil argument is cv-19 is helping to thin the herd, maybe cv-20 will will thin it even more.
Problem with an across the board reduction is the normal distribution of intelligence and the "shape" of the "shoulders". Takes a lot of people to have even a few really smart ones. Of course, maybe the "selection" will winnow out the left-hand side of the distribution? Even so, same distribution next generation, only smaller cohorts this time. And disruptive events like that often result in the worst incidents of demagoguery and fascism.
It may very well be why socialism is so attractive to many....it simplifies ones life, primarily the minimalist and grounded folks, that are drawn to shiny new objects, homes that are exuberant and lavishly appointed. I believe most people are this way, and the 'haves' continually want more, which may very well be why there is angst towards the wealthy. Just not realizing that they are the ones supporting so many each and every day thru work.
Maybe, once we get lower cost healthcare sorted out, the urge to work until 62-65 will subside, and this thins out the players that need employment which means more and more are not packing cash away just support medical costs through retirement term.
Then implement the 'afan', federal consumption tax on each and every transition...which should level the field a bit better. Certainly there will be unintended consequences.
Re: All Things Environment
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:50 pm
by PizzaSnake
If you're having trouble breathing, check out the "weather chart".
